Visual Novels - Old or new, let's talk about them

[SomaSpice]

View: https://youtu.be/cbdaF-CU7EI


Love this song, can't wait to play the game

 

[H3lixir]

Visual novels. They're like a book, but with images. Or more like a comic, but with music. Or maybe more like a very elaborate powerpoint presentation, but pornographic. They're objectively the highest of the Japanese arts, so I cordially invite all members of the Agora to share their experiences with them.

respectfully disagree with a few points that other people have probably already brought up.

Visual novels aren't inherently pornographic. Coffee Talk, V-AL HALL-A, Red Strings Club, are all really really good visual novels that don't rely on sexual themes to move the story forward. To be fair, I haven't played any visual novels from the 00s or 90s, but I'm hoping the trend of focusing on the characters and relationships that aren't only romantic stays for good.

I'm not sure it's possible to have objectivity in any of the arts. Then again I'm probably just getting old and the word "objectively" doesn't mean what I think it means.

All that being said, visual novels can be really cool. The range of emotions that valhalla was able to deliver AND have catchy music AND have just enough gameplay so the player is doing more than just hitting a button to bring up the next block of scrolling text made for a fun game imo. I suspect that Coffee Talk took a lot of inspiration from them but there are so many similarities that it gives "you can copy my homework, but change it so it isn't obvious" vibes. fantasy setting instead of cyberpunk, coffee bar instead of alcohol.

I'll admit i have a bias against dating sims and overly "anime" art styles and settings. I'm sure other people enjoy them but they just don't interest me. For whatever reason, if the visuals are at least a little bit pixel-art, they get more lenience from me.

 

[H3lixir]

i forgot to mention the game Mortician's Tale

I don't know where the line is drawn for how much or how little gameplay can be in a game and it's still a "visual novel". On one hand, you don't want it to be ONLY textboxes and talking heads, but if it's too interactive then it starts to move away from being a novel

 

[SomaSpice]

respectfully disagree with a few points that other people have probably already brought up.

Visual novels aren't inherently pornographic. Coffee Talk, V-AL HALL-A, Red Strings Club, are all really really good visual novels that don't rely on sexual themes to move the story forward. To be fair, I haven't played any visual novels from the 00s or 90s, but I'm hoping the trend of focusing on the characters and relationships that aren't only romantic stays for good.

I'm not sure it's possible to have objectivity in any of the arts. Then again I'm probably just getting old and the word "objectively" doesn't mean what I think it means.

I was just being very tongue in cheek with the introduction, don't worry about it.

i forgot to mention the game Mortician's Tale

I don't know where the line is drawn for how much or how little gameplay can be in a game and it's still a "visual novel". On one hand, you don't want it to be ONLY textboxes and talking heads, but if it's too interactive then it starts to move away from being a novel

Thanks for sharing. I think the line is defined a bit less by interaction and more by the ratio of time spent reading vs playing, but that's just my take.

 

[elia925-6]

I remember playing virtue's last reward as my first visual novel on 3DS

 

[lain is here]

I have a lot to say about VN's. I've been active on a visual novel forum for almost a decade and I started reading them in 2011. It's a medium that means a lot to me, and it's a shame that for all the theoretical potential VNs have, most are pretty unadventurous in how they use the medium. I hate to self-promote, but earlier this year I published a VN that aimed at being a bit experimental and much of the VN itself is a huge love letter to retro visual novels. If that sounds potentially interesting, it's called Digital Seclusion and you can find it on itch.io for free. It's an amateur work, but with that in mind I think that for those who are interested in retro VNs, it will likely have some charm.

My favorite VNs are: Sayonara wo Oshiete, Narcissu, Swan Song, Yume Miru Kusuri, Symphonic Rain, Subahibi, and Saya no Uta.

I also did a video where I go into detail about the potential VNs have as a medium, but I'll only post that if people express interest. Since I would feel too guilty to shill 2 of my own things in the same post. I would honestly love to talk to people more about VNs, either in this thread or through personal message.

 

[SomaSpice]

I have a lot to say about VN's. I've been active on a visual novel forum for almost a decade and I started reading them in 2011. It's a medium that means a lot to me, and it's a shame that for all the theoretical potential VNs have, most are pretty unadventurous in how they use the medium. I hate to self-promote, but earlier this year I published a VN that aimed at being a bit experimental and much of the VN itself is a huge love letter to retro visual novels. If that sounds potentially interesting, it's called Digital Seclusion and you can find it on itch.io for free. It's an amateur work, but with that in mind I think that for those who are interested in retro VNs, it will likely have some charm.

My favorite VNs are: Sayonara wo Oshiete, Narcissu, Swan Song, Yume Miru Kusuri, Symphonic Rain, Subahibi, and Saya no Uta.

I also did a video where I go into detail about the potential VNs have as a medium, but I'll only post that if people express interest. Since I would feel too guilty to shill 2 of my own things in the same post. I would honestly love to talk to people more about VNs, either in this thread or through personal message.

GOOD TASTE GOOD TASTE GOOD TASTE
POST VIDEO POST VIDEO POST VIDEO​

VNs are also very special to me, I haven't experienced any other medium able to hit the emotional highs they are able to hit. I'd be more than glad to discuss them with you if you want to, in this thread or elsewhere. I'll also check out your VN when I have the time.

 

[lain is here]

GOOD TASTE GOOD TASTE GOOD TASTE
POST VIDEO POST VIDEO POST VIDEO​

VNs are also very special to me, I haven't experienced any other medium able to hit the emotional highs they are able to hit. I'd be more than glad to discuss them with you if you want to, in this thread or elsewhere. I'll also check out your VN when I have the time.

Thanks, and for real it might be cliched to phrase it this way, but there really is something magical about reading a good VN. At it's best, it sucks you into a world better than any other medium, at least for somebody with my sensibilities. The writing, which is usually in the first perspective, allows you to really get into a character's head. And with visuals and audio it's fascinating to not just read the protagonist's momentary thoughts, but to literally see and hear what he experiences.

A lot of VNs, especially the dating sim oriented ones, typically feature self-insert protagonists whose thoughts aren't particularly interesting (there are exceptions of course). But what makes a VN like Sayonara wo Oshiete a masterpiece is that the insanity of the narrator makes for a fascinating read. And it's uncanny how you get drawn into his own delusions, largely because the help of the visual and audio component allow you to experience his delusions with him. Anyway, I cover this in more detail other things in the video so it'll be easiest to link that: A Defense of Visual Novels: What Are They, Why Do They Matter.

I'm more than happy to keep this thread going! It's rare that I get to discuss VNs with new people.

 

[rootsudo]

So many great suggestions in this thread, I got introduced to VN thanks to Umineko then I went back and did Higurashi and since then stagnated. The time investment for both of Ryukishi's work was satisfying, but it is sort of heavy niche.

I remember Katawa Shojo coming out on the 4chan's forever ago, and always dismissed it. I guess I'm lucky Umineko just fell onto my lap, when I was researching for psychological anime to watch. It got me into murder mysterys as a genre.

Steins;gate too, I remember when it was all the rage, and I ignored it for quite a few years until randomly I decided why not and watched the anime and got the Switch game.

--
I should be more spontenous and try new things more often then wait and let them build up.

 

[woodenrope]

respectfully disagree with a few points that other people have probably already brought up.

Visual novels aren't inherently pornographic. Coffee Talk, V-AL HALL-A, Red Strings Club, are all really really good visual novels that don't rely on sexual themes to move the story forward. To be fair, I haven't played any visual novels from the 00s or 90s, but I'm hoping the trend of focusing on the characters and relationships that aren't only romantic stays for good.

I'm not sure it's possible to have objectivity in any of the arts. Then again I'm probably just getting old and the word "objectively" doesn't mean what I think it means.

All that being said, visual novels can be really cool. The range of emotions that valhalla was able to deliver AND have catchy music AND have just enough gameplay so the player is doing more than just hitting a button to bring up the next block of scrolling text made for a fun game imo. I suspect that Coffee Talk took a lot of inspiration from them but there are so many similarities that it gives "you can copy my homework, but change it so it isn't obvious" vibes. fantasy setting instead of cyberpunk, coffee bar instead of alcohol.

I'll admit i have a bias against dating sims and overly "anime" art styles and settings. I'm sure other people enjoy them but they just don't interest me. For whatever reason, if the visuals are at least a little bit pixel-art, they get more lenience from me.

I absolutely loved Coffee Talk. Maybe the pixel art thing was what did it for me, but curling up in bed with the Switch and that game made my summer.

 

[SomaSpice]

I'm more than happy to keep this thread going! It's rare that I get to discuss VNs with new people.

Woah dude, sorry that I left you hanging. I got busy and kinda forgor about this thread.

About the video, while longform essays are not my thing, I enjoyed your take on literature and overall how soulful and personal the video felt. Do you have anything more planed for your channel somewhere down the line?

 

[vaporwavemaster1]

Va11-Ha11a will always be a favorite. Few things as comfy
View attachment 8374

それが市場にリリースされたとき、私はそれについて多くの誇大宣伝を聞いた。コンピュータゲームの黄金時代に登場したゲームほど良くはありません。でも正直、楽しい体験です。そして非常によくプログラムされています。

 

[SomaSpice]

それが市場にリリースされたとき、私はそれについて多くの誇大宣伝を聞いた。コンピュータゲームの黄金時代に登場したゲームほど良くはありません。でも正直、楽しい体験です。そして非常によくプログラムされています。

Yeah, people do tend to oversell it a bit, but I feel its because it has a lot of the soul of the games of the golden era you talked about. Something which few games possess nowadays. Of the golden era which games do you like? I imagine you're talking about the PC-98 era, right?

 

[lain is here]

Woah dude, sorry that I left you hanging. I got busy and kinda forgor about this thread.

About the video, while longform essays are not my thing, I enjoyed your take on literature and overall how soulful and personal the video felt. Do you have anything more planed for your channel somewhere down the line?

Thanks, I really appreciate it! I have the channel up as a place to explore ideas and topics from an analytical angle. I also do creative work (chiefly writing would-be, experimental VN scripts), and currently I'm focused on that. I only work on one project at a time to avoid being overwhelmed. But once I finish that, I'll probably get around to doing another video.

 

[SomaSpice]

I only work on one project at a time to avoid being overwhelmed. But once I finish that, I'll probably get around to doing another video

Nice dude, I'll be waiting for it. Love how the agora seems to congregate people who produce stuff.

 

[lain is here]

Figure this thread could use a good bump.

It's winter, and you know what that means, Snow. No, literally that's the name of this VN:

View: https://youtu.be/o7msJHl0DDI

I remember in my senior year of High School when I first started studying Japanese. I would watch on repeat the openings of all the different untranslated VNs I was anticipating to eventually have access too. It was like I was sampling an endless supply of books from a forgotten library in a foreign language. One thing is certainly true through, that knowing Japanese does open up a world of lost media to you: mid 90s to late-00's VNs. There are so many of them, and most (especially outside of Japan) forgotten. 1000s of hours, 1000s of characters, and 100s of worlds to explore. It's kind of crazy to think about, and it was meditating on that exact thought which led to the creation of my own VN (link in my signature).

But the painful truth of the matter, is just like trailers to most movies, the actual works being advertised rarely live up to expectations. Snow was my biggest disappointment. I had created pretty elaborate expectations of the VN from all the times I'd watch its opening, but when I finally got around to it... let's just say I wasn't impressed. While there are definitely some exceptions (Sayonara wo Oshiete being a prime one!), many of the best VNs have an English translation at this point. Not all, but compared to when I was first getting into the medium, it's astounding to see what's gotten translated in the past 10 years.

That said, the lost media appeal of untranslated VNs is still very much there. And I think that's one aspect I still find fascinating about them. They remain this fresh source of nostalgia.

 

[Jessica3cho雪血⊜青意]

My favorite Visual Novel of all time is definitely the Zero Escape series. My favorite is 999, followed by Zero Time Dilemna, followed by VLR.

 

[shinobu]

I'm playing YU-NO (the PC-98 version with a translation found in 4chan) right now and it's definitely absurdly good, with the dithering and art style and the music, but it's already been mentioned, so I'll name some others that I liked

First, Grisaia no Kajitsu, a really long trilogy (the first game alone can take you 150 hours to read) with extra spinoffs of which I've only played the first and a bit of the second.
It has a pretty interesting story with crazy moments like disarming a bomb in a wedding, and a tsundere wearing winter clothes in the middle of summer due to her stubbornness (and other even crazier stuff that may be too spoiler-y to mention)

Then onto a short and sweet one, Fatal Twelve. Classic death game story except it takes a new direction towards the end, and the setting and characters are pretty good. Also very recommended.

I've also started reading Amaranto and Sekien no Inganock but I'm a bit too early to say anything about them

 

[lain is here]

I've also started reading Amaranto and Sekien no Inganock but I'm a bit too early to say anything about them

Damn, you reminded me that Sekien no Inganock has been on my list for years now. Also Amaranto looks like it has potential, never heard of it before so I appreciate you putting it in my radar.

I'm really glad you went through the effort to play the original YU-NO. As far as I'm concerned, the remake doesn't exist.

 

[Chen]

So many options nowadays I remember when babies first visual novel was Yume Miru Kusuri