Kiwifarms under attack | Veteran of the Psychic Wars | The Internet is for EVERYONE.

[WALFTEAM]

If Byuu faked his death then dozens to hundreds of people in the open-source/emulation communities, professional, talented normal people who in some cases have been on the net for 25 years, are lying. It would take a LOT more evidence than what has been presented so far to make a case for him being alive. There are a number of possible explanations for why the stats don't line up. It looks way more like the KF guys knew they fucked up and are making up a weird little legend to tell each other to absolve themselves. They're getting to the point where even if that death certificate did drop they'd still be making up shit. The guy is fucking dead.

Null knew the Byuu thread was a nothingburger but got so insanely assmad that a mod deleted it as a favor that he banned and doxxed the mod in response. Even old-school Encyclopedia Dramatica editors and sysops found this behavior insane - even ED would delete entries on people if they went nowhere or caused more trouble than they were worth. KF considers that a weakness and look at it now.

 

[Collision]

Any... particular reason why you're so sure this wasn't just some statistician's fuck up?

The entire narrative doesn't add up? If we assume Byuu is dead we have to accept an entire set of nonsensical facts including the story of his suicide where he ODs on codeine and then hangs himself while on the phone with a friend. We also have to believe that his friend, who presumably was also in Japan because he had recently had lunch with Byuu, sat on the phone for another hour listening to Byuu's stereo in shock rather than contacting emergency services. We further have to believe that these claims were actually made by a real friend of Byuu because they were published by a 3rd party in a Google Doc. Next, we have to believe that no one has any concrete evidence that Byuu is dead or that everyone who does is refusing to demonstrate it. Finally, we have to believe that neither the Japanese government nor the US government is aware of his death (or as you put it they somehow missed it). This also isn't the first time Byuu has decided to remove himself from the internet. I don't wish him any ill will but the facts simply don't add up and he could have just stopped posting on Twitter without the show.

 

[Outer Heaven]

If Byuu faked his death then dozens to hundreds of people in the open-source/emulation communities, people who in some cases have been on the net for 25 years, are lying.

How hard is it to accept that maybe Byu told people he was committing suicide then went silent so they assumed it happened or that 1 or 2 people lied. How is this less believable than committing suicide in Japan, not getting it reported then having your ashes mailed to some dude you worked with, not even family, so they can post about it on twitter.

 

[Lonely_Ghost]

I don't like KF because gossip is sinful and the culture there is toxic but this whole narrative about driving people to suicide is ridiculous. There are very few people on the site who actually get messed with hard enough to warrant a serious reaction, people like DSP or Wings or even the gunt. Most people discussed are just insulted or have their cringe documented. If you have so little control that you do stupid stuff that warrant a thread then actively read that thread and get offended enough to off yourself thats 100% your fault. If you're mentally unstable, that's the fault of people around you for giving you the internet access to see KF in the first place. Unless you're going through something like schizophrenia that ruins your judgement completely, suicide is always your choice.

None of this is including the fact that no allegation of suicide against KF has ever been substantiated. Of the 4 cases people always site, 3 had extreme personal circumstances that had nothing to with the site like domestic abuse, and the most recent, Byu isnt even dead if you look at the evidence. People who hate KF, justifiably i might add, have a tendency to blame the site for anything they go through or lie to get it taken down.

KF is a toxic shithole filled with Brainlets but this is correct.
Every suicide, death and shooting associated with it happened outside of it's scope and never because of it. Turns out mentally ill weirdo's will do crazy shit no matter who they associate with.

 

[Ronin]

pretty bad situation: http://uquusqsaaad66cvub4473csdu4uu...onion/threads/the-endless-drum-beating.129023

In my life, there is a family emergency. It has absolutely nothing to do with the forum drama. I cannot and will not elaborate further. There will be a week or more where I am completely unavailable and it is likely the site will go down during this time where I will not be able to bring it up.
I want to appraise our situation frankly.
Domain Registrar
Cloudflare was both our application-level DDoS mitigation and our domain registrar. They have given me a way to transfer my domains to another registrar. I do not know what registrar to send it to because I do not have faith in any company.
DDoS Mitigation
DDoS-Guard will drop us dropped us while I was writing this post. This meme about Russia being a free country is a joke. The US is a free country, but with no stewards to protect it. Without the US, there is no second best. I did not expect Cloudflare to crumple so quickly and I don't have a Plan C for DDoS mitigation.
Resource Allocation
I own IP addresses. Our IP allocation is from APNIC. APNIC is one of the 5 private companies which allocate Internet resources around the world. APNIC happens to be based out of Australia, which recently passed draconian censorship laws. There is an effort to get our RIR to revoke our allocation. This would be unprecedented in the history of the Internet, and considering China is in APNIC's region, an absolutely horrific standard which will echo throughout the upcoming decades. There is a non-zero chance of this happening.
Hosting
We have one host and I am looking at two more. It is likely that the host will give up too. The two hosts confident they can handle the Kiwi Farms are probably wrong. DDoS-Guard was confident they could handle the Kiwi Farms and said "bring it on" for less than 24 hours.
This is an organized attack. There is a coalition of criminals trying to frame the forum for their behavior. These criminals provide opportunities for professional victims to amplify their message. Journalists canonize the crimes as the behavior of the forum itself, which becomes the effective truth for the general public.
This is a machine that was built up formerly against 8chan and activates any time the cathedral wants to test the new fronts of its censorship. It is a massive amalgamation of various interests. I am one person. The financial limitations aren't even the real problem - the problem is, I am powerless alone. There is no amount of money I can throw to convince people to be brave and be free. This is just the reality of our country.
And what this machine will not accept is compromise. If I censored specific kinds of behavior, it would not matter. They don't want a specific thing censored. They want the average person to be able to speak in channels where only specific thoughts are acceptable.
More importantly, they want to make it so that no small organization can host a service which threatens the cathedral. It used to be that one guy with a good idea could open a platform and be a Tom Anderson, Mark Zuckerberg, Tom Fulp, Christopher Poole, or Richard Kyanka. Take note these names are all from 10+ years ago. There are no new groundbreakers online anymore because breaking ground in the new Internet's corporate parking lot is not allowed.
I do not see a situation where the Kiwi Farms is simply allowed to operate. It will either become a fractured shell of itself, like 8chan, or jump between hosts and domain names like Daily Stormer.

 

[handoferis]

This is why I'm hesitant to be happy over KF going down even if i dont like their conduct. Who else is documenting all of the insane stuff people like Keffals and the Zoosadists did?

Haven't posted about this much, but Clara Sorrenti being a nightmare whirlwind of cringe was a known factor long before the name 'keffals' existed.

Back when I used to be a communist, it was pretty common knowledge that she was an attention whoring nightmare person, too fucked up even for communists. You can blame libtarded twitter users who just pedestal anyone they feel like cause they check a couple of boxes for her ability to do whatever the fuck she wanted after leaving CPC. It doesn't matter how much you document it, people with a political reason to ignore it will put their blinders on either way.

e: it took me a while to add this up, cause I had no idea who the fuck 'keffals' was and not much intent in looking into it. When I realised who it was I let out an audible groan.

 

[Puzzlebark]

All the parties involved in this suck. Even if the Keffals pedo shit is fake (I need something more convincing than screenshots that could easily be fabricated for a claim as big as that) she's still a useless, inflammatory professional victim and directing minors to HRT without education on its effects is grossly irresponsible. KiwiFarms is full of losers who are two steps separated from the people they make fun of and autistically document, and Null is a dumbass who is currently crying victim after failing to keep his site's reputation and users under control. CloudFlare is, well, a corporation. It's a given that they'd backpedal on whatever stance they had on something if it started reflecting poorly on them (even if nothing of value is lost by KF going down). I don't see what you'd get out of being emotionally invested in this, the "free speech" argument doesn't really appeal to me here because there's no substance on KF in the first place aside from the occasional media discussion (to my understanding).

 

[Michaellaneous]

Imagine hating gay people so much you make a forum about hating gays and talking about how bad the gays are with other people.

 

[Fairykang]

First they came for the conspiracy theorists.
Then they came for the autistic hate watchers.
They'd shut down 4chan if the FBI didn't already run it.

 

[remember_summer_days]

First they came for the conspiracy theorists.
Then they came for the autistic hate watchers.
They'd shut down 4chan if the FBI didn't already run it.

With all the recent Dark Brandon speeches... They really want the right to do a terrorism

 

[Sidewinder91]

The entire narrative doesn't add up? If we assume Byuu is dead we have to accept an entire set of nonsensical facts including the story of his suicide where he ODs on codeine and then hangs himself while on the phone with a friend. We also have to believe that his friend, who presumably was also in Japan because he had recently had lunch with Byuu, sat on the phone for another hour listening to Byuu's stereo in shock rather than contacting emergency services. We further have to believe that these claims were actually made by a real friend of Byuu because they were published by a 3rd party in a Google Doc. Next, we have to believe that no one has any concrete evidence that Byuu is dead or that everyone who does is refusing to demonstrate it. Finally, we have to believe that neither the Japanese government nor the US government is aware of his death (or as you put it they somehow missed it). This also isn't the first time Byuu has decided to remove himself from the internet. I don't wish him any ill will but the facts simply don't add up and he could have just stopped posting on Twitter without the show.

Yeah... look, that sounds like nothing more than a bunch of conjecture.

Obviously there's no way for me to be 100% sure Byuu's actually dead, but nothing you've said really convinces me.

 

[Collision]

Yeah... look, that sounds like nothing more than a bunch of conjecture.

The burden of proof isn't on people who are skeptical of the claim. Feel free to show me why you think he is dead. Have you seen some information that I don't have?

 

[Sidewinder91]

The burden of proof isn't on people who are skeptical of the claim. Feel free to show me why you think he is dead. Have you seen some information that I don't have?

Dude, I'm not interested in playing internet detective with you.

 

[Collision]

Dude, I'm not interested in playing internet detective with you.

lol

 

[CognacDefender]

lol

Lmao

 

[SolidStateSurvivor]

it's their own fault for objecting to having their personal, private information spread across forums

Yes.
Nobody forced them into over sharing bizzare or embarrassing information in the first place. It's public, not private information. IMO the real anger should be directed at the fact that there exists all these services that make cyber stalking easy for th general public. That they're allowed to maintain all this data on us and give it out so loosely.

you're fucking wilfully ignorant, and it could be for a variety of reasons, but what really matters is, you either are wilfully ignorant because you're a user of the site, or you don't and you're wilfully ignorant, making you a tool for the site

Admittedly I lurk, internet weirdos and CWC are source of entertainment and their happening threads surpass "professional" news media. Hell I lurk sites I completely disagree with on almost every level just because I find it fascinating to read other perspectives. But I disagree with your assessment of me being ignorant to the situation. I find this precedent of taking down an entire site very dire from a digital free speech perspective, and we don't have to pretend either side in this are saints/demons. I'd be saying the same thing if this was happening to some hypothetical LGBT forum that openly slurs straight people and acted similar to the farms (oh wait that's just Twitter...)

But at the end of the day you do have one group trying to silence the other because they say and do things they disagree with, and they got the corporate infrastructure to cave into their demands. And it's legitimately frustrating because it's validated the slippery slope argument. We started at "don't like it, make your own platform" to "don't like it, just get your own infrastructure" and I promise you the next step is getting ISP's to entirely ban access to certain sites. Butthurt people shouldn't be allowed to impede in my ability to view legal material on the internet.

As I have stated before a lot of the harassment stems from off site groups seeking clout, at least from what I have seen. I admittedly don't know the forum's full history, mainly just their involvement with CWC. This overall feels like an instance where people are quick to blame the gun after a shooting rather than the individual who ultimately chooses to weild it irresponsibly.

I tend to try and avoid whataboutism, but Twitter is guilty of everything the Farms is accused of to an even greater degree. The only difference is that it's corporate condoned. Can't remember if it was here or elsewhere I heard the following point, but it feels like the Keffals crowd going after the farms is because these hyper progressivists want a monopoly on this power to cancel and harass people/communities.

I do apologize if my prior post towards you was overly combative, came home fired up from a night of drinking with the lads and lowkey felt like starting shit

 

[handoferis]

But at the end of the day you do have one group trying to silence the other because they say and do things they disagree with, and they got the corporate infrastructure to cave into their demands.

Agree with the majority of your post, but let's be honest, it's tiny minorities of minorities going full throttle at each other and the fall-out of their slapfight polarizing/tarring much larger groups of people.

There are plenty of pretty normal trans people who couldn't give two shits about some internet fight and are just living life, just like there are plenty of people who have reservations about trans shit who don't feel the need to go and obsessively document people or generally write horrible shit.

Cause both sides can't help but feel like only the people they see are representative of the whole, and they're both loud, this fucked up impression everyone has of each other ripples out to everyone either on, or vaguely connected to, the respective 'side', and corporations generally shit themselves cause they want to constantly PR-manage themselves to look "acceptable" while fucking the little guy.

All of this is posturing on multiple levels and meanwhile I can't help but think that the issue isn't really the fact that companies kowtow to stupid shit cause their social media managers are freaking out, it's more the fact that we let 4-5 corps become the backbone of what was supposed to be a decentralized network.

That said, in my personal ideal world it would be a blanket no-no to go liferuining over posting, be that from KF or Twitter or whereever else.

(As an aside I absolutely cannot believe that Null thought going to a Russian company would work out for him after he spent ages flipping the bird at Roskomnadzor. It's one thing going like "oh well, American company won't tolerate me so I'll go to the US's enemy", but an entirely another thing to go to one of your country's adversaries for refuge after screaming "I'M AN AMERICAN EAT SHIT" at their government for ages. I doubt this was due to popular demand in Russia, that well known translover country, and more likely a tap on the shoulder from Roskomnadzor.)

 

[raccoon//aphrodisiac]

Yes.
Nobody forced them into over sharing bizzare or embarrassing information in the first place. It's public, not private information. IMO the real anger should be directed at the fact that there exists all these services that make cyber stalking easy for th general public. That they're allowed to maintain all this data on us and give it out so loosely.

Well, certainly people do share a lot of the information that KF digs up and amasses, but there's also a lot of other private information they actively seek out in absolutely scummy ways, like finding family members' addresses, finding people's jobs and calling them, etc, and this doesn't happen because the targets post this information online, they might just say "i work in the X industry", and in a separate context say "i work in Y city", and these people obsessing over their targets will do everything they can to triangulate their locations just so they can harass them.

the people they target just want to live their lives, but when you're being targeted you can't just "ignore" the trolls, not when you can be directly harassed because you tweeted something as normal and simple as "i'm going to get X type of takeout" (this is obviously based off what happened recently because it's fresh in my mind, that happened because there's an active fucking war between the two parties so maybe not the best example, but we know this type of situation has happened many times before, my point is, kiwifarms users will go to extreme lengths to get private info on their targets regardless of whether or not they posted that info online themselves)

But at the end of the day you do have one group trying to silence the other because they say and do things they disagree with, and they got the corporate infrastructure to cave into their demands. And it's legitimately frustrating because it's validated the slippery slope argument. We started at "don't like it, make your own platform" to "don't like it, just get your own infrastructure" and I promise you the next step is getting ISP's to entirely ban access to certain sites. Butthurt people shouldn't be allowed to impede in my ability to view legal material on the internet.

the thing is i do agree with the whole "don't like it, make your own platform" sentiment, (though it's certainly an old one because of how homogenised into a handful of sites the internet is now, unfortunately) but that only extends to a point where actual material harm is coming from what those people are doing
in the same way that i'm gonna oppose alt-right fuckheads, who can stay in their own little corner for all i care, but the moment they start making hate campaigns and coming for my sisters, i'm entirely fine with standing opposed to them. i'm not saying all the people in KF are alt-rightoids, this is something that has happened multiple times before with other groups

maybe you think this is hypocritical, or unfair. and well, i guess i can only fundamentally disagree.

I tend to try and avoid whataboutism, but Twitter is guilty of everything the Farms is accused of to an even greater degree. The only difference is that it's corporate condoned. Can't remember if it was here or elsewhere I heard the following point, but it feels like the Keffals crowd going after the farms is because these hyper progressivists want a monopoly on this power to cancel and harass people/communities.

I do apologize if my prior post towards you was overly combative, came home fired up from a night of drinking with the lads and lowkey felt like starting shit

it's certainly true that twitter has countless witch hunts of its own, and it's a hellish website. it's just that it's such a different beast from wild websites of old because of its nature as a gigantic homogenised unstoppable machine. it's got its own set of problems, and it also sucks, in a different way

and i was definitely even more combative in my reply, so you have no need to apologise. i couldn't help but be a bit pissed off i had come back to this thread, when 1/3rd of the posts in this thread are just people spitting rampant transphobia, so that's why
anyway i'm going back to ignoring this thread and the whole kiwifarms thing as much as i can

 

[Michaellaneous]

I don't know, saying "it's just two groups trying to silence each others" seems a bit disingenuous, if not delusional.

 

[Hadrian Hardrada Cicero]

Imagine hating gay people so much you make a forum about hating gays and talking about how bad the gays are with other people.

I'm not homophobic by any means but I'd rather keep a distance away from the LGBTQ identity movement anyway. Also, I'm sure there are plenty of gays on that forum who regularly lurk on there as well.

I'm gonna mute this thread from now on. I don't want to even see it anymore, the number of people cheering for the destruction of a site has left me in a state of depression given how many are one-stage thinking the whole situation (Or really the thinly veil masks they are wearing to conceal their true feelings). Needless to say, I am largely disappointed that the opposing group, while understandable as to why they dislike the farms, have shown to me that much of their info is nothing but second-hand experience and regurgitating the same mush from those who never checked out the forums and stayed at least a significant amount of time to understand the culture and even if that is not the case are going in under the pretext of what they heard elsewhere and ignoring the context all together. YES, they are antagonistic in nature and YES they may come across abrasive assholes who have "nothing to do but 'stalk; people they disagree with" (Which again; is a massive misconception and ignoring the context as to why they're like this) but as many stated here a majority of the time: It is the people they're gossiping who are flagrantly/blatantly throwing their personal info out on the internet by their own volition and like 90% of time these people are unaware that they have a thread of their own on the sites.

Another thing that people here have pointed out which I also have mentioned in the chatroom when I was discussing this subject to @Thermite is that time and time again; Null cannot do anything to the people who exist outside the farms that are actively going after the lolcows to get a reaction out of or to seek genuine harm to them and often than not it is the lolcows themselves doing this to other lolcows as well (Keffals, the whole reason why we're all arguing about, is one of those cows who actively harasses others that he[don't care, bite me] disagrees with for example). But if this is falling on deaf ears, I don't know what to say anymore other than good luck trying to hold onto those principles when these people inevitably go after you for any plethora of reasons. Kiwifarms if they're a victim of anything (and are really): victims of being gaslighted by said peoples of all colors whether it be them or those (which is often the case) that exist outside the forums who want to take down the forums by any means necessary which often means; breaking the law.

Speaking of Law. One thing I have learned from reading this thread is that everyone here is acting on subjective morals fueled by their own emotions the emotions of others they rather believe immediately instead of objective morals and realizing that the people Null listed have gone and broke US law, of which I'll post here with links and all.

https://www.justice.gov/jm/jm-9-48000-computer-fraud
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act
https://www.nacdl.org/Landing/ComputerFraudandAbuseAct
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1030

Even IF there are some "justifications" against Kiwifarms, internet justice, social justice-- whatever the hell it's called will always be inferior to Civil and Court law, period.
I'm going to take advice from St. Augustine and move on. I pray that the site itself will come back to clearnet (I don't want to go darknet, I'm sorry.) and the people who first started this will end up being thrown in jail. I do not care what the opposition on this thread have to say anymore. There is nothing nuance they're bringing and are unwilling to listen. All I ask and wish for these people is to respect others on their beliefs in regard to the site and at least take a healthy dose of context and skepticism of the group they fly under.

One more thing; the reason why I cared is that as @Outer Heaven with had once stated that I agree (and I disagree with him heavily on many subjects mind you) is that there are genuine conversations outside the main board of the farms. I like to look at people's own creative works there and they're more genuine than the discord servers I've lurked around that fly "we're for artists!" flag. I really don't care about lolcows at all, other than seeing them with absolute pity every time they go ham and null or a staffer pins a post that first mentions it. That, and it's the final resting place of videos of a youtuber I used to watch. If this were any other time where ideologues were never forcing the average citizen to conform; I would not even care about Kiwifarms at all, but this isn't that time anymore. Not since 2013. And to many; Kiwifarms is viewed as one of the last major sites that still retains old internet principle and allow people to express themselves and not intervene unless it's necessary. It being the target by the same ideologues from differing colors and then being forced to hide on the dark web to wait out the whole thing fucking saddens me as someone who values the first amendment and liberties of the US Constitution itself and believes said liberties are being curtailed by the federal government and elsewhere online in lieu of safety.

just people spitting rampant transphobia

I'm just gonna put this in a box.

Spoiler: My response.

Might as well leave Agora Road then. I don't agree with it and there are plenty of people here too that are on the same page as I am. I personally think it's a poison to the individual's spirit and brings nothing but more harm on themselves anything more than some shitposter on /pol/ post gifs of a tranny hanging themselves. It's self-deception and an empty promise. All of the studies people within that community that have tried to convince others are baseless or on the bases of junk science and as someone who considers themselves a man of science, it is very well on the way of being or is already on the premise of pseudoscience. I remember long ago on this forum when someone tried to ask the question of such, a user here made a very great post on the subject matter to. Shame the thread was deleted however because I would def link it here but overall, don't expect us to be 100% on board with that identity movement and if you're gonna make a fuss about it; like I said, might as well leave the forums as my only suggestion

To finish this post off I'll just post this song here that Null put up on the farms before it went down for the second time again. Thanks for reading.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whujg3QUgPI