Afghan / NATO troops getting cut off in Kabul / Afghanistan has fallen thread

Unit K-17

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You know, I never really took to heart just how cyclical history was, until now. Everyone always says that history repeats itself, over and over, and that's like, a midwit-tier take, but it never really sunk in for me just how literally it repeats itself until now.

You see the same exact style of photos coming out of this, as you did with Saigon. It's a helluva thing.


I wonder if the United States will go the same way that the Soviet Union did after pulling out...
 
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reynad5150

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:PikaFacepalm: There's a reason why nobody uses nukes. Because its literally suicide, if you launch a nuke you will not only be killing civilians, but the radiation will effect neighboring countries and the whole planet. Thus will effect us. We only have nukes for a deterrent for other countries.
but, you just said no one uses nukes because it's suicide...so how can they be a deterrent?

question: when suicide is a good thing to your enemy, do you think nukes are a deterrent? like the evil entities in this world WANT to be martyrs, how is a nuke a deterrent to them?

joe biden has publically commented that nuking american citizens is not off the table. this notion that "nukes are so scary, they're a deterrent no one wants to use" is naive at best. YOU say that, but bad people seem to be itching to use them

of course the major mistake was letting other countries have nukes in the first place.
 

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You know, I never really took to heart just how cyclical history was, until now. Everyone always says that history repeats itself, over and over, and that's like, a midwit-tier take, but it never really sunk in for me just how literally it repeats itself until now.

You see the same exact style of photos coming out of this, as you did with Saigon. It's a helluva thing.


I wonder if the United States will go the same way that the Soviet Union did after pulling out...
same people behind it too.
 

Jaded Dreams

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You know, I never really took to heart just how cyclical history was, until now. Everyone always says that history repeats itself, over and over, and that's like, a midwit-tier take, but it never really sunk in for me just how literally it repeats itself until now.

You see the same exact style of photos coming out of this, as you did with Saigon. It's a helluva thing.
No two historical events are the same, history rhymes more than it repeats. It's foolish to assume what we are seeing happen in Afghan is like what we saw with Saigon when its a still developing story that will change and warp with time.
I wonder if the United States will go the same way that the Soviet Union did after pulling out...
Are you saying that the fall of the Soviet Union started or happened when they pulled out of afghan in 1989? If so, you seem to be infected with the myth that Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires, they're not. Let me explain;
What about the Soviet Union, surely the decade they spent fighting a guerilla war in Afghanistan helped to bring about their demise? Not really. Yes, the Afghan War was a terribly costly affair for the Soviets, between 1979 and 1989, they lost more than 14,000 men and spent billions of dollars on the campaign. But the Soviet Union's demise was decades in the making: a military budget that gobbled up a large chunk of their GDP, a bloated bureaucracy, a centralized and poorly run state economy, and an ineffective manufacturing base all were major contributing factors to its eventual collapse.

The thing that finally doomed the Soviet Union though was Mikhail Gorbachev's efforts at reform. Gorbachev was (and is) a true believer in Socialism and thought that the Soviet Union could be made to live up to the promises of Communism if it could only be reformed. But once he began, Gorbachev would find that the system was beyond redemption; his policy that removed the Communist Party as the unchallenged head of the Soviet Union didn't lead to reform, rather it led to some Republics trying to leave the Union entirely. The Soviet Union collapsed because Gorbachev let it rather than using force to try to keep it together, a series of events that would have happened whether the Soviets had gotten involved in Afghanistan or not.

Look, failure is always a possible outcome, especially judging by the way things have been going lately. But if the United States and its allies end up messing up their part of the equation, blame it on their bad policy decisions. Don't blame it on a supersimplified version of Afghanistan's history — especially if you prefer to overlook the details.

As Thomas Barfield pointed out to me the other day, for most of its history Afghanistan has actually been the cradle of empires, not their grave. Barfield, an anthropologist at Boston University, has been studying Afghanistan since the early 1970s, and he has published a book — Afghanistan: A Cultural and Political History — that takes issue with the hoary stereotypes that continue to inform our understanding of the place.

One thing is for sure: If we really want Afghans to attain the future they deserve, clinging to a fake version of their history won't help.

TL;DR: The Soviets pulling out of Afghanistan was not the beginning of their downfall and is not the start of the downfall for America. Afghanistan being labeled "Graveyard of Empires" is a dumb myth that needs to die. And finally, history is never that simple, there is always more too it than meets the eye.
 
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-hey brother, uhhh are you sure allah sees this fit?
-well of course posting the conquest of our provinces on this furry westerner webpage is the best way, how else could it be?


yes, I saved this picture I also found on 4chan, they have the best stuff there
NO WAY IS THAT REAL??!
 
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Unit K-17

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No two historical events are the same, history rhymes more than it repeats. It's foolish to assume what we are seeing happen in Afghan is like what we saw with Saigon when its a still developing story that will change and warp with time.

While it's true that history rhymes more than directly repeats, I was observing the striking resemblance between this and Saigon- and, to be honest, calling it foolish to draw that comparison is a bad look.

We have the exact same situations unfolding, in the exact same kind of way- as a matter of fact, after a nearly exact same kind of war, as well. Technology changes, but actions don't seem to.

Also, the story, while still developing, has already told all there is to tell, with comparison to Saigon. Taliban has swept the nation and taken over. That is a fact. The US is now evacuating people from the rooftop of the embassy. That is also a fact. The US left the nation, expecting it to hold its own at least for a little bit, and it didn't. That is also a fact.

All of these same exact circumstances happened during our exit from Vietnam.
 
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Jaded Dreams

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We have the exact same situations unfolding, in the exact same kind of way- as a matter of fact, after a nearly exact same kind of war, as well. Technology changes, but actions don't seem to.
The fall of Saigon took place two years after US forces were withdrawn from Vietnam. America's evacuation from Kabul, meanwhile, is happening while the US was already preparing to leave Afghanistan. So, no, these situations are not unfolding in the exact same way.

All of these same exact circumstances happened during our exit from Vietnam.
In contrast to Vietnam, where the US envoy Martin stayed until the last moment at the embassy and then got the US fleet off the coast to help rescue Vietnamese, US diplomats in Kabul appear to have left quickly, leaving behind troops and locals they worked with. These situations are similar but different. It's a different mindset than in the 1970s. In the past, the US had refugee policies that embraced people who were fleeing Saigon and also those fleeing from Cuba and some other regimes. There doesn't seem to be a version of the 1975 Indochina Migration and Refugee Assistance Act, which enabled approximately 130,000 refugees from South Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia to enter the US. The US has had ample time to aid the Afghans, not only over the last 20 years, but also since the autumn of 2019 when the US knew it was leaving. The Trump administration pushed the deal that would enable the US to leave, drawing down troops in 2020 and then leaving in 2021.
While it's true that history rhymes more than directly repeats, I was observing the striking resemblance between this and Saigon- and, to be honest, calling it foolish to draw that comparison is a bad look.
While at face value, these situations do seem exactly alike, like I said before, there's more to it then meets the eye. And yeah, I could've worded it better.
Technology changes, but actions don't seem to.
No procedure was put in place to process large-scale Afghan requests for asylum or refugee status. Despite the US having much better technology these days to deal with such requests, almost nothing was done, and the chaos at Kabul's airport is the result. Refugee policies 100 years ago appear to have been better coordinated than what has unfolded these days in Kabul.
Also, the story, while still developing, has already told all there is to tell, with comparison to Saigon. Taliban has swept the nation and taken over. That is a fact. The US is now evacuating people from the rooftop of the embassy. That is also a fact. The US left the nation, expecting it to hold its own at least for a little bit, and it didn't. That is also a fact.
The US at that time was taking in refugees. But today in Washington, there is no interest in refugees, and US officials in Kabul fled quickly without staying to the end to manage the evacuation and help the locals to flee.

You could argue it echoes Saigon but its not Saigon, far from it. Afghans have lost their lives in part because powerful, privileged, wealthy, Western countries that played a role in Afghanistan for 20 years couldn't bother to arrange a proper and coordinated response to the collapse of the government there and to offer assistance to people who had worked with foreigners who served in Afghanistan.
 
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For all I care, the Taliban are a lot more willing to tackle the issue of their own government's corruption and debauched perversions than the US soldiers sent there to ostensibly remove the threat of fundamentalist Islamic extremists, but then again, even they have their own connection to a long running trail of globalist influence.
 
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I agree that twenty years and a trillion dollars spent ideally could have produced a better result.

I'm not sure how much blame can be placed on the Afghan's lack of will to fight - some estimates have the Afghan security forces have taking over 65,000 casualties. With attrition like that, pure selection effects take place.

We also need to remember that until the "peace treaty" where Trump agreed to withdraw last year, the Taliban were making gains despite continued US support. The quiet of the months before the withdrawal always was an illusion.
Agreed. I guess I'm not so much saying that they were weak willed, more that perhaps the will of the people was not behind the democratic afghan government and perhaps more partial to islamic rule. If this was the case then no amount of money or effort would result in victory.
 
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IlluminatiPirate

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Can't believe that jet taking off through a crowd of civilians. So deperate and afraid to just plough through people on the runway to escape back to the states.

The video leaks have stopped so I guess the NSA has shut it all down.
 
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For all I care, the Taliban are a lot more willing to tackle the issue of their own government's corruption and debauched perversions than the US soldiers sent there to ostensibly remove the threat of fundamentalist Islamic extremists, but then again, even they have their own connection to a long running trail of globalist influence.
They ARE the satanic globalist influence