Agora Road's Post-Hardcore Thread

Alix Kojima

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AGORA ROAD'S FIRST AND ONLY POST-HARDCORE THREAD
(After a long wait, it's here)
(Every underlined text is an hyperlink)

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Post-hardcore is a subgenre of rock and punk music born in the 1980s that keeps hardcore punk's agression and intensity but with a much bigger creative freedom and experimentation. Traces of proto-phc can be seen in bands like This Heat and Black Flag, with the first great post-hardcore bands being the Minutemen, Wipers and Hüsker Dü, alongside others such as Naked Raygun. Since its development, it has grown to be one of the biggest scenes in all of rock and punk, going from noisier acts like Big Black and others by Albini to the whole emo genre and even crossing over with post-rock in the cases of Unwound and Slint.


PART 1: THE BEGINNINGS

Inspired by British post-punk, groups like Minutemen and the growing noise rock scene led by groups such as Sonic Youth, several disillusioned members of the hardcore scene started to break off the rules of normal hardcore and experiment with the previous templates of sound of the genre. Characterized by a very strong DIY ethic, notable groups from this phase are Squirrel Bait, the previously mentioned Big Black and its mates on the pigfuck scene such as Flipper and Scratch Acid; alongside the previously-mentioned Hüsker Dü. The leading label of this era was Homestead Records, home to all of these groups.


PART 2: REVOLUTION SUMMER, D.C. AND EMO

The first great post-hardcore explosion took place in Washington D.C., already home to an once-great punk scene now in nihilistic decadence, where several groups moved away from this scene to an evolved and more personal sound, all of them signed to the label Dischord Records. This movement was spearheaded by bands such as Embrace, formed by ex-member of Minor Threat and cofounder of Dischord Ian MacKaye; One Last Wish, The Faith, Beefeater, Dag Nasty and most importantly, Rites of Spring with their album End On End. All of these bands were soon grouped under a new microgenre: emotional hardcore, better known as emocore or just emo. This word would soon surpass all of them on popularity, but it would have to wait. (I will not center myself a lot on subgenres such as midwest emo on this main post.)

Revolution Summer continued on the second half of the 80s, this time with more stable bands at the front. The biggest one, as well as the face of the genre itself, was MacKaye's Fugazi, not only iconic for their innovative music but for their attitude: cheap CDs and shows, total DIY attitude and resistance to the mainstream. Fugazi lasted two decades. making some of the genre's finest works such as Repeater and The Argument. Alongside Fugazi, the biggest acts on late-80s D.C. were Jawbox, the jazzy and sarcastic Nation of Ulysses, Rain and The Hated.


PART 3: THE GREAT NINETIES

Entering into the 90s, post-hardcore was ripe for an explosion in bands and popularity, thanks to a friendly enviroment caused by punk's decay and the want for more alternative/indie rock caused by Nirvana's, Sonic Youth's and others' popularity. It ended up being the best decade for the genre, almost reaching the mainstream in some cases.

The first scene outside D.C. to gain importance was born in Louisville, KY. The Louisville sound placed great emphasis in a newly-found instrumental complexity: uncommon time signatures, new chords, longer songs, etc... Kentucky would end up being the birthplace of math rock and American post-rock, leaded by Bitch Magnet, Bastro, June Of 44, Rodan and Slint, which became one of the most well-known bands of the genre and one of the parents of post-rock. Albini was also involved in the scene, producing for most of them; his band Shellac was also one of the main pioneers for math rock.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the states, PHC and emo was also forming into something greater and more complex, in the city of San Diego. The San Diego sound was alongside Louisville, D.C. and Olympia one of the main scenes of post-hardcore in this decade. The leading label of the region was Gravity Records, under which Heroin, Antioch Arrow, and others developed what would be known as screamo. Ironically, the most famous San Diego band and the one that would change the most the genre wasn't part of Gravity. Incorporating lengthy and complex compositions full to the top of intensity, they would create one of post-hardcore's first masterpieces. Its name was Drive Like Jehu.

The last scene I want to center on is Olympia, WA, home to my favorite group of all time. 90s Washington was home to some of indie's best movements, and post-hardcore was no exception, mutually receiving from both the local grunge and riot grrl bands. The first led to Lync, which some of its members later forming the well-known Modest Mouse; and the second led to Sleater Kinney and Team Dresch. It also lead to the group I mentioned previously, Unwound. Starting out as an emo band before experimenting with post-punk, and finally going full post-rock before disbanding. All of their 7 albums are 10/10s and essential listens. Maybe not the self-titled, but it's still a great LP.


PART 4: MAKING IT BIG AND FAR

The explosion of post-hardcore caused, as said earlier, tons of bands to appear all over the states and even the entire world, each of them incorporating new influences. The main examples inside the USA were Jawbox signing to Atlantic Records, Hum's single Stars entering the top charts (they were Deftones' main inspiration), Helmet signing to Interscope Records, and all of the midwest emo bands that would make it big: Cap 'N' Jazz, Modest Mouse, Sunny Day Real Estate, and others that were less-known such as Mineral or Pee. I've also got to mention The Dismemberment Plan which is one of the best displays of indie originality of all time.

At the same time, several PHC groups sprung around the world. The biggest names are the jazzy Canadian group NoMeansNo and the Swedish Refused. Japan would also start seeing a small surge in the genre, but nothing compared to what was about to come.

Post-hardcore's true big break was at the form of El Paso's At The Drive-In, whose DLJ-inspired album Relationship of Command would reach both the mainstream and the labels' ears, resulting in emo becoming a new catch-it-all label, and the apocalypse starting. I will not talk about that here. Except for My Chemical Romance, which was the best of that age.


PART 5: THE 2000s AND BEYOND

The 2000s are a weird phase in the genre's history, esentially being a lite version of the 90s: same eclectic genre but more obscure and with less main scenes. Of course, we're talking about what was going on outside the apocalypse. It also saw the last and best albums of what were gods of the genre: Unwound's Leaves Turn Inside You and Fugazi's The Argument.

Math rock also saw some great bands during the early 00s, in the form of Faraquet, Chicago's jazz-rock beast Sweep The Leg Johnny and The Wicked Farleys. Aside from that, it was the age of screamo: intense and noisy, by the hand of the Japanese Envy, Gospel and The Fall of Troy. It also was the age of emoviolence, with Orchid, and midwest emo, with Americ an Football.

Arriving at the 2020s, post-hardcore hasn't seen a big-scale revival like shoegaze and nu-metal have. The closest it has been to was with IDLES, and they've abandoned their post-hardcore roots. Perhaps this is for the best, but a genre without new music is a dead genre. Perhaps what's keeping it alive is at the other side of the sea...


PART 6: HOUSE OF THE RISING SUN

Japan's always been home to an eclectic musical landscape, taking the Anglosphere's trends and molding it into something unique to the island, from Les Rallizes Denudes noisy behemoths to the eclectic Shibuya-kei scene. And post-hardcore is no exception, especially math rock, being the only country where it has reached true mainstream success.

PHC was introduced to Japan by Number Girl, bloodthirsty butchers, Coaltar of the Deepers, BP. and Cowpers, the first reaching cult status inside the J-Rock community. The seed planted inside the Shimokita-kei scene by NG would soon grow massively, with its legacy followed by wowaka and Mass of the Fermenting Dregs. This math wave would be rode by Tricot, who managed to drive the genre to mainstream popularity inside Japan. Meanwhile, the underground scene has kept going with full-force. Notable examples are Midori's manic jazz-punk combo and 88Kasyo Junrei, whose vocalist and bassist Margarette Hiroi was the main inspiration for Bocchi The Rock's Kikuri Hiroi, and as drunk as her. BTR has also helped the scene to be more famous in the West, even featuring a post-hardcore track produced by Tricot on its OST. If trends continue as they are, post-hardcore's future may be bright, perhaps even for a revival of sorts.

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ALIX'S TOP RECS

1. Leaves Turn Inside You - Unwound
2. New Plastic Ideas - Unwound
3. Repetition - Unwound
4. You'd Prefer An Astronaut - Hum
5. Fake Train - Unwound
6. Downward Is Heavenward - Hum
7. Emergency & I - The Dismemberment Plan
8. These Are Not Fall Colors - Lync
9. Yank Crime - Drive Like Jehu
10. ○△□ - 88Kasyo Junrei
11. Wrong - NoMeansNo
12. Going Down Swingin' - Sweep The Leg Johnny
12. The Argument - Fugazi
13. Atomizer - Big Black
14. Lyburnum Wits End Liberation Fly - Moss Icon
15. At Action Park - Shellac
16. The Visitors From Deepspace - Coaltar of the Deepers
17. The Shape of Punk to Come - Refused)m
18. Relationship Of Command - At The Drive-In
19. Zen Arcade - Hüsker Dü
20. Lula Divinia - Shiner

Playlist with everything that was linked here.


Tagging those who are interested: @Holy, @jojo, @AnHero, @MySpace Tom, @youtherthyf, @Neither or, @Midwest


In memory of Vern Rumsey, Steve Sostak and Steve Albini. Your contributions to music will never be forgotten.
 
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eris

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MindControlBoxer

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pee hardcore was good when it wasn't emo. The growing up of hardcode went completely sideways in the 90s (as did most punk rock adjacent things) The culture shift to keep a demographic that was being lost with the rise of hip hop firmly posted those genres in the decline.


You know who was the demographic for post hardcore in the 90s people like ...

HITLER
HITLER
HITLER


Art fags, involved in wacky politics, casual drug use, incel adjacent, dad beat them up . Same demographic. Young Hitler would LOVE big black. and that is not a joke.




The early stuff was good for skate videos background music and teenage angst.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKGovH4Ge2M&pp=ygUbZ3JheSBtYXR0ZXIgYnVybiBubyBicmlkZ2Vz




View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQljmUwOnzs&pp=ygUeZGFnIG5hc3R5IHVuZGVyIHlvdXIgaW5mbHVlbmNl
 
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pee hardcore was good when it wasn't emo. The growing up of hardcode went completely sideways in the 90s (as did most punk rock adjacent things) The culture shift to keep a demographic that was being lost with the rise of hip hop firmly posted those genres in the decline.


You know who was the demographic for post hardcore in the 90s people like ...

HITLER
HITLER
HITLER


Art fags, involved in wacky politics, casual drug use, incel adjacent, dad beat them up . Same demographic. Young Hitler would LOVE big black. and that is not a joke.




The early stuff was good for skate videos background music and teenage angst.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKGovH4Ge2M&pp=ygUbZ3JheSBtYXR0ZXIgYnVybiBubyBicmlkZ2Vz




View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQljmUwOnzs&pp=ygUeZGFnIG5hc3R5IHVuZGVyIHlvdXIgaW5mbHVlbmNl

dont forget


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MindControlBoxer

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Yea hitler would love this too
yes. they are hated by all, total hitler, so love---ignorant that they are (worse) that antifa, and to that that antifa itself has gotten into bad reputation - e.g. "reverse racism" /thread
 
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Alix Kojima

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pee hardcore was good when it wasn't emo. The growing up of hardcode went completely sideways in the 90s (as did most punk rock adjacent things) The culture shift to keep a demographic that was being lost with the rise of hip hop firmly posted those genres in the decline.


You know who was the demographic for post hardcore in the 90s people like ...

HITLER
HITLER
HITLER


Art fags, involved in wacky politics, casual drug use, incel adjacent, dad beat them up . Same demographic. Young Hitler would LOVE big black. and that is not a joke.




The early stuff was good for skate videos background music and teenage angst.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKGovH4Ge2M&pp=ygUbZ3JheSBtYXR0ZXIgYnVybiBubyBicmlkZ2Vz




View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQljmUwOnzs&pp=ygUeZGFnIG5hc3R5IHVuZGVyIHlvdXIgaW5mbHVlbmNl

You had Mussolini right there. Hell, I even linked it.

View: https://youtu.be/ABmNjnNR9aM?si=LA6s5kWyI0WoNurO
 
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Alix Kojima

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FollowFreeman!

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pee hardcore was good when it wasn't emo. The growing up of hardcode went completely sideways in the 90s (as did most punk rock adjacent things) The culture shift to keep a demographic that was being lost with the rise of hip hop firmly posted those genres in the decline.
I watched the whole decline go down in the 90's/early 00's. Slowly more folks that look like what Porc posted started showing up at shows. There weren't enough tough guys to scare them away and the scene became 'scene.'

There were bands trying to hold on to the past but they were few and far between. The only place in america that was still holding true hardcore shows was Boston and mayyyybe salt lake city, dudes would show up with swords. Went to a few in Boston back in 2004 and there was not a scene kid to be found, just good ol' skinheads and scary dudes.
 
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Alix Kojima

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They've been on my list for a long time now. I've heard they sound like a quirkier TDP or DLJ (I don't remember which), which sounds pretty good.
Yeahh, they're awesome. 'quirkier' is definitely the right word. Their songs aren't goofy or anything, but they are more groovy and staccato.
 

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I watched the whole decline go down in the 90's/early 00's. Slowly more folks that look like what Porc posted started showing up at shows. There weren't enough tough guys to scare them away and the scene became 'scene.'

There were bands trying to hold on to the past but they were few and far between. The only place in america that was still holding true hardcore shows was Boston and mayyyybe salt lake city, dudes would show up with swords. Went to a few in Boston back in 2004 and there was not a scene kid to be found, just good ol' skinheads and scary dudes.
I am always fascinated by how much 'emo' changed from one decade to the next. It became practically a whole other thing. There's an interesting site that mocks scene stereotypes, (http://www.dobi.nu/yourscenesucks/scenesters.htm) and the contrast between 90s emo and 00s emo is unbelievable.
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MindControlBoxer

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I watched the whole decline go down in the 90's/early 00's. Slowly more folks that look like what Porc posted started showing up at shows. There weren't enough tough guys to scare them away and the scene became 'scene.'

There were bands trying to hold on to the past but they were few and far between. The only place in america that was still holding true hardcore shows was Boston and mayyyybe salt lake city, dudes would show up with swords. Went to a few in Boston back in 2004 and there was not a scene kid to be found, just good ol' skinheads and scary dudes.


you need a healthy balance of truly smart people who can provide art and/or knuckleheads who can provide violence. When midwits fill the scene the scene dies because they don't have the primal nor the truly transcendental things required for a successful culture.

What the boston scene lacked in musical ability they made up with sheer caveman instincts.


This is the best thing that came out of boston


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt-C7ZTFxbQ



While looking through my old emo music on YT I got recommended this banger:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4MiC67seUY


makes me feel 15yo again.

millennials were a mistake
 
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