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Alex Jones AI Cover YT Channel and thoughts on AI Covers in general

LSTR-S27916

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Reposting this since the forum apparently suffered minor data loss. I can't remember my exact words so here's something new:
If you're tired of modern Family Guy and think it isn't funny anymore, there's an AI stream where people can submit prompts and the AI makes a skit out of it. It's on Youtube but also saves the skits automatically here: https://www.aipeter.tv/
It's not perfect though. Sometimes the AI doesn't understand the prompt and other times users use know issues with the TTS program to cause ear-rape like this: https://www.aipeter.tv/watch?v=8rEuI0Topx4
Unsurprisingly though people have gotten the AI to say various slurs and even a bomb threat. Overall I'd say it's okay despite the issues. It's somehow better than modern Family Guy, and it's on 24/7 so if you're bored or need something to watch while eating lunch I can highly suggest this.
 
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Punp

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Point taken, I think I'll let Punp do the virtual slap fighting from here.
You just have to wade through the layers of irony; these posts illustrate that advocaters for AI generation are lazy wannabes and have nothing important to contribute. The genuine value they bring to the thread is they keep it active and engaging while Vitnitra and I are thinking about what we're next going to say.

---

To summarise my post before it was deleted so I can come in and refill it later:

Endorphin Shower
Generating produces endorphins in the same way scrolling pinterest or instagram does. That excitement leads to fanatic endorsing of the tools. The tools do not really illustrate the user's imagination. Example of "endorphin shower" AI """artist""".

Non-human machines replicating machine-like humans
AI generation is just the logical consequence of algorithms making humans more machine like. Example from ebay description generation following human-algorithm-bending. This appreciation of generated content comes from a dearth in creativity created by trend-chasing.

Recycling of what has come before and the general landfill that the web has become. Repetition of the training data - i.e. the vaporwave term repeatedly brings up two guys that look like they're instagram selfies which probably used the vaporwave hashtag all the time, dinosaurs are leathery iguanas with loads of teeth. Reflects what happens on social media.

View attachment 83732
genai bot o my private server

I fucking knew it - and now I won't feel bad about ignoring you any more. Nothing you wrote seemed to make sense or contribute anything useful to conversation. In the most unpleasant way possible; please, please fuck off and stop shitting up the forum with your useless spam.
 
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Boxerdog

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It was brought up to my attention that I should try to make a effort post every once in a while, i already posted my thoughts on how dead and de-spoliated art culture is but as @SpeedSleek said
You still decided to prompt more generic art to prove a point everyone is well aware of.
My point is already self evident. But there is something else that i think i am not even clear on it myself.


Ive been enjoying the thread and want to know you guyses thoughts on one singular point since both of you are coming from different directions, this is related but un related.

Are things who are made for a purpose and do that purpose better than the previous thing inherently destructive to the concept of things as they are?

And if so, what is the purpose of art? To exist as someones idea(banana ductape)? To entertain others(le calarts)? To propagate an idea from the artist to the viewer(insert soviet poster)?

And if so what differentiates ai art from just mid art? Yes it is an amalgamate of things but what separate mid art from great art is the uniqueness of it no?

A book which the cover art its decidedly generic looses nothing for having it being ai generated or not, yes it would've been great if you could find an artist and who makes unique stylized art which can be associated directly with your brand(wimpy kid) its great, but a book can be a great book without any images other than the cover(and even that is not necessary), album covers can be an ai image of stick figures or they can be stick figures that you drew in paint, does that detract from the music? And if it doesn't then does it matter?
Of course if the whole point is to prop up the effort of the artist behind it and the humans unique view on it then that stuff is out of the window. But as i stated before, artists as a whole(which again is not a thing, just he public perception of it) have burned themselves with everybody else by making so that everything can technically be art.
Speaking as someone who did hand drawn art for a living for a short period before.

If image below was an ai generated image(which it could easily be), with the title and text added after, would that detract from the product itself? And if not why should the musicians(artists) care?

1703312585227.png
 
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Punp

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It was brought up to my attention that I should try to make a effort post every once in a while, i already posted my thoughts on how dead and de-spoliated art culture is but as @SpeedSleek said

My point is already self evident. But there is something else that i think i am not even clear on it myself.


Ive been enjoying the thread and want to know you guyses thoughts on one singular point since both of you are coming from different directions, this is related but un related.

Are things who are made for a purpose and do that purpose better than the previous thing inherently destructive to the concept of things as they are?

And if so, what is the purpose of art? To exist as someones idea(banana ductape)? To entertain others(le calarts)? To propagate an idea from the artist to the viewer(insert soviet poster)?

And if so what differentiates ai art from just mid art? Yes it is an amalgamate of things but what separate mid art from great art is the uniqueness of it no?

A book which the cover art its decidedly generic looses nothing for having it being ai generated or not, yes it would've been great if you could find an artist and who makes unique stylized art which can be associated directly with your brand(wimpy kid) its great, but a book can be a great book without any images other than the cover(and even that is not necessary), album covers can be an ai image of stick figures or they can be stick figures that you drew in paint, does that detract from the music? And if it doesn't then does it matter?
Of course if the whole point is to prop up the effort of the artist behind it and the humans unique view on it then that stuff is out of the window. But as i stated before, artists as a whole(which again is not a thing, just he public perception of it) have burned themselves with everybody else by making so that everything can technically be art.
Speaking as someone who did hand drawn art for a living for a short period before.

If image below was an ai generated image(which it could easily be), with the title and text added after, would that detract from the product itself? And if not why should the musicians(artists) care?

View attachment 83789
I think you're confusing art (the resulting product) with art (the adjective). Art (adj) is the process of conveying meaning from one human being to another. It portrays something profound about an interpretation of the world to other people.

The problem with AI art actually predates AI generation, and is the problem of commercial generification off the back of capitalism. Any successful unique experiment (made at the cost of an auteur's personal investment of time or money) will be recut, repeated, rehashed, genericized and resold until the market is bloated with it.

AI generation takes this to the next level. It takes whatever is popular in the market of attention ("trending on art station"), marks it as "successful" within the training data, rehashes it and remixes it with other popular pieces and produces generic, consumable paste at little personal investment.

I stand by the maxim that there are two kinds of people in art: innovators who generally do not benefit from their inventions, and the people who copy it and make it marketable.

This can be seen in "the art world" with your banana duct-tape example, which is multiple layers of irony riffing on the discussion of art (adj) vs commerce.
 
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I understand all of that but why would people care about art and its domain vs art as their product.

I was gonna say unless you are an artist but musicians are artists, why would metallica (artists) care or not if their album cover its ai generated? why would a construction worker who isn't an artist care if the music that he likes has an ai album cover?

I understand the whole capitalism and good artists make unique art and are more likely to be starving artists and stuff since the appeal its smaller (which in contras to the Союз художников СССР, in which you do what benefits the Союз). But why should non artists, care about that? Or even artists that aren't in the same domain?(first they came for...)

People used to get their portraits done in oil, something something something, you can have a portrait of yourself with a single click of a camera, There are still people who will make a oil painting portrait out there, but most people when wanting to record a moment in time do not need to pay some highly skilled person, they can do it themselves. why would someone pay, or even ask someone else to do their dungeons and dragons character when those people can just do it themselves in 3 mins or less, 15 -30 if they really want to put effort in?

I stand by the maxim that there are two kinds of people in art: innovators who generally do not benefit from their inventions, and the people who copy it and make it marketable.
This is for everything under this earth. But the point is that artists need to eat, why would the man who grows food trade his food for some art when he can make some similar thing with the click of a button himself?

I understand it from the pov of an artists who care about "the craft", but it is a hard sell for everybody else, and im not talking le common denominator trailer park people, i am talking everybody else who does something else that is not art, but wants a background screen saver or something for their restaurant walls.

When i start thinking about those lines, it starts to sound like the "ethics of digital piracy" crowd. It also gets into of what does an artist wants? the first kind, the innovators, its not money, Is is recognition? Is it to leave their mark on the world? Is it to bread and circus the people? What do those people want and why should the food grower give it to them?

Speaking outside of capitalism here
 
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When i start thinking about those lines, it starts to sound like the "ethics of digital piracy" crowd. It also gets into of what does an artist wants? the first kind, the innovators, its not money, Is is recognition? Is it to leave their mark on the world? Is it to bread and circus the people? What do those people want and why should the food grower give it to them?
post-capitalism, there is no value in anything anymore
why we care? why we cant just leave this old reagan crap die out, and start some other way? everyone sees that, there are noomeroous eesayss on "fakeness of it all" - project Venus maybe?
pay in trees? deductibles? (but as we know EU and others, power-trips, this can lead to "China system"...)
 
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Boxerdog

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post-capitalism, there is no value in anything anymore
why we care? why we cant just leave this old reagan crap die out, and start some other way? everyone sees that, there are noomeroous eesayss on "fakeness of it all" - project Venus maybe?
pay in trees? deductibles? (but as we know EU and others, power-trips, this can lead to "China system"...)

Billions must die?
 
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I understand all of that but why would people care about art and its domain vs art as their product.
Why would anyone want to find a romantic partner when pornography and sex dolls exist and they can just do it themselves? Why interact with other people when you can just jack/jill off in the comfort of your own home? We should be eliminating human interaction at every opportunity and replacing them with ersatz copies where we can, because the only thing that matters is the final outcome (getting that nut) and not the things we experience along the way.
 
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Punp

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I forgot to add in my reconstruction of my destroyed post the dangers of simulated depictions. AI is constructed from the trending value judgements of algorithmically popular art and graphic design. This includes scaly lizard dinosaurs, asians in French maid outfits and women with washboard stomachs and generic, uninteresting botulism faces.

The reliance on AI generations for disposable artwork surrounds us with these shades of shades of reality and puts us deeper within Plato's cave. This is not a digital imagination; It's serving suggestions for interpretations of symbols.
 
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Why would anyone want to find a romantic partner when pornography and sex dolls exist and they can just do it themselves? Why interact with other people when you can just jack/jill off in the comfort of your own home? We should be eliminating human interaction at every opportunity and replacing them with ersatz copies where we can, because the only thing that matters is the final outcome (getting that nut) and not the things we experience along the way.
because why not! why to hate yourself! why to hate everyone and everything! why to live in fear, guilt, emberrasment!
(i am there, ... i just want hug when i get *there*...)
 
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Why would anyone want to find a romantic partner when pornography and sex dolls exist and they can just do it themselves? Why interact with other people when you can just jack/jill off in the comfort of your own home? We should be eliminating human interaction at every opportunity and replacing them with ersatz copies where we can, because the only thing that matters is the final outcome (getting that nut) and not the things we experience along the way.
I think you are confusing the human need for companionship(need for love, acceptance) with the biological need to nut(lust), people will hire women to spit on them and stand on then with stilleto heels, no nut required ,sexual arousal has nothing to do with ejaculation ,a orgasm is a part of the whole, yes lust does exist on its own, and in the same vein, only fans/pornstars women complain about ai porn art and prostitutes complain about realistic sex dolls, since it is encroaching on their specific area, it does not encroach on le lady whos gonna poop on your mouth niche, she is unaffected.

Just because onlyfans women exist it does not means people do not want companionship, but if you just want to get that nut, you CAN replace le onlyfans women with le ai drawing, you cannot replace human companionship understanding and love with an ai(or at least not yet), and even then replicants will replacing real human interaction will only happen if the ai its a new life form (this is the plot for binary domain) and if not then those who seek companionship will still seek human companionship regardless of ai or not , no matter how much fans a pornstar has it does not makes a guy not want companionship.



But to meld this and not get too off topic


Metallica having their album art be ai generated does not in any shape and form disrupts people from liking their music or hinders the human interaction of going to see them live, The only one being affected here its the artist.

A guy not having to go on the internet and ask someone else to do their d&d art does not hinder or replace them doing the human interaction of playing tabletop with their buddies, the only one being affected here is the artist.

I understand it from the pov of drawing artists who care about "the craft", but it is a hard sell for everybody else.
 
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I understand it from the pov of an artists who care about "the craft", but it is a hard sell for everybody else.
artists became same as they always were - for the rich guys, as in XIVth century
 
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[missing the point but unironically]
Let's try another analogy. AI art is like the preprinted message in a Christmas card. Human art is the handwritten message.

Yes, it's faster to buy the generic, focus-tested uniform greeting and put your name on it; but it's much nicer to get a card from someone who has written a greeting demonstrating their perspective on the subject (you).

Maybe you don't appreciate the difference. If that's the case you probably will never understand and you deserve the cheap facsimile.

---

The album art has no reflection on the music or going to see the band in person. Whether the art is good is about the art. It does, however, convey a cheap laziness and reduction in quality of the brand. For the record: human art or not, that album art is not good. It's bland and formulaic, it conveys no depth or opinion and the composition is terrible to read at a distance.

This reduction in quality is true of your DnD example and shows a lack of effort and care. I'd rather have stick figures drawn in pencil than AI imagery.

Don't feed me soy and tell me it's cake.
 
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Missing the point but unironically
Maybe you don't appreciate the difference. If that's the case you probably will never understand and you deserve the cheap facsimile.
I understand it from the pov of an drawing artists who care about "the craft", but it is a hard sell for everybody else.

In your example you are getting a gift from someone totally different thing, a kid can hand you a home made macaroni t shirt and you can appreciate it but you still wont use it for a night out with the boys



The album art has no reflection on the music or going to see the band in person. Whether the art is good is about the art. It does, however, convey a cheap laziness and reduction in quality of the brand. For the record: human art or not, that album art is not good. It's bland and formulaic, it conveys no depth or opinion and the composition is terrible to read at a distance.
I just picked a iconic album art whether they are good or not(which is subjective, it is definitely bland and formulaic now but not in 1986, it helped create the formula. As for depth or opinion it is tied to the music which is the actual thing people seek out on a music album.), it does not stop them from being iconic and to help propagate their art(music), if the image was a giant hand drawn black cock it would change the message, zeitgeist and alienate their target audience.
The image does exactly what it needs do.

I could pick many others that can be easily ai generated and it would have no effect on the artist(musician) the music and the effect it would have on their target audience who would want to listen to their art.


1703540661284.png
1703540719215.png
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1703541276861.png
1703541313293.png




This reduction in quality is true of your DnD example and shows a lack of effort and care. I'd rather have stick figures drawn in pencil than AI imagery.
But that is just it, when a guy who draws poop furry porn(i was gonna post images as example but decided against it) is the exact same as the guy who painted the sistine chapel, then there isn't such things as "quality" just subjective differences that comes from the eye of the beholder.

Do you think that (im not posting it, envision it) an image of sonic getting shitted on by fat tails "good" art since it comes from the(autistic) soul, while an ai generated image of your d&d guy isn't?

And if so that leads to my second point which is fused with the original point.


Don't feed me soy and tell me it's cake.
Which is people simply don't care about art anymore, and that is on the artists to blame. Its not that they necessarily want soy, is that from their POV their options are soy or the vomit cake from ff.

Yes somewhere out there there are people who make awesome cakes, but spending time and effort finding those people in the sea of the open ended and un curated(by design) "art world" makes no sense from the pov someone who works 10 hours a day of hard manual labor in the real world and just wants to play d&d with their friends on their weekends.


artists became same as they always were - for the rich guys, as in XIVth century
As porcupine said, artists were highly respected, with kings willing to spend great money to bring them from far away lands to get a self portrait or the description of a battle. In a time where most people are expected to grow food and hold a spear whit out running away, these people who did not needed to do that could spent their time honing their own craft, and providing their highly specialized services to, not only rich people but also their church(rich people), those people who held the spear if they had the glory and the guts could make some money and maybe one day they would get a portrait of themselves made from those fine gentleman...



Something something something the same people are now ductaping bananas to a wall, drawing pikachu inside sonics asshole, and doing things like this
1703542617947.png


^this person is an artist, the same a Michelangelo, the same as hokusai , the same as gaugin and the same as chris chan.


Now the average person sees this and decides that they simply do not trust art anymore, and yes they would really like to have stylized unique art(if it is affordable of course), everybody does but the if the choice to spend their hard earned money(or hard grown food, speaking outside of capitalism) to make something that can be replicated with the touch of a button for free in 5 minutes or less, it is a hard sell for them to buy your art, not because your art is good or bad, but because they are pretty much buying YOUR MIND ideas on what the image should be, it just so happens that if you are an artist these people do not respect you in the slightest since for them you are one of those people, screaming with the body paint on and getting paid 20x what they make by splashing some paint into the walls while they gotta slave away in the mines.


Don't get mad at the working man for being a working man, get mad at the hippies who ran the consortium of art into the twin towers.


Here is a different analogy since we are on that game:

You have a leak under the sink.

A) If you trust plumbers you get a plumber to fix it, your wife who is not a plumber keeps giving her opinions on it, you tell her to shut the fuck up because she is not a plumber and the guy knows what he is doing.

B) If you do not trust plumbers, you will try to fix it by yourself, It will definitely not be as good as if a proper plumber with proper materials did it, but its serviceable.

C) Your wife fancy herself as a "plumber", the house is under water.
 
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