Anime Talk

[no_chill]

Originally wanted to post this as a Status but it had way too much characters and was over the limit.

So I decided (after checking the catalog) to start an anime discussion thread. Meta Talk, Opinions, Discussions.
I'll start:


As much as I like Anime theres a few things I simply hate:

● The way romance, love and lust is treated

During the obligatory hotspring scene/ episode women and men are in secluded areas, men sneak over trying to glance at the women and get hit with the "zamn " red face and fall over.

Or, MC sees a female character undress and quickly looks away and makes it super awkward in both expression and dialogue. "OMG SHES NAKED AND HAS BOOBS AND A FAT LABIA" or something along that lines but more like "omg her naked body, I'm not allowed to glance at her, does she even know I can see her? Did she spotted me? Omg what should I do" etc etc

And dont get me started on romance scenes.

Is this some cucked japanese culture stuff? Or why can't they handle this in a mature way?
This group spend weeks to months together, slept together in tents, share intimate details from their life, build up mutual trust yet seeing them naked or half naked is causing such a disturbance? If anything they should be accustomed to seeing each other naked or skins. Given that armor and clothing breaks in combat or simply wears down they should be used to seeing bits missing, clothes being teared and exposing skin, party member changing clothes or taking off armor on breaks.


I have seen female friends of mine naked/ partially clothed plenty of times within our friendgroup. And we were (unfortunately) not exploring dungeons or defeating a demon army. Without any romance or sex involved too.

What my point is: This stuff just happens when you spend a lot of time and experiences together and IS NATURAL.

We even pissed together in the same bush after a nights out or saw each other puking, buying female sanitary products or condoms, talked about our relationships etc. Maybe we were more open than others but it stands that stuff like this just happens in a friend group and is not treated as immaturely as in many Anime. Someone throws a house party in summer, everyone more or less stays to sleep with 7 other men/women in the same room, I remember sharing a couch with 4 other people lmao. Barely clothed because it either got dirt/ juice on or because we didn't wear much to begin with. Again, without any sexual intention or whatever.

And yes, Hentai. We literally only have polar opposite. Suddenly in Hentai theres no holds back and they show the most unhinged stuff possible.

I wished they took more western elements when it comes to this topic. If you take any series that is comparable to the anime format (main character focus and progression, story arc that spins over several episodes/seasons, protagonists can die/ change appearance/ age) they at least make it non awkward or if some characters decide to have sex or get closer they use that vague cut technique that fades to black once they are in bed.

I take this a thousand times over the super cringy shit that happened in Konosuba or Danmachi. What I've seen there makes me question some of the writers mental state and honesty I can see why Japan has such declining birthrates. When they cant even portray social dynamics in a fantasy series. Also it does ruin the immersion for me and whenever this happens It makes me question my choice in watching series/movies. Is this show made for kids? e.g

But then they show creatures getting dismembered or protagonists loosing limbs so its quite a stark and unconvincing contrast....

 

[no_chill]

Like, It wouldn't be so cringy or awkward if they would just acknowledge it and move on. So yes, the elf mage takes off her wet clothes and wants to sit with you by the fire. Then give her a coat and appreciate having found a teammember you can trust this much.

Or, yes women look good without clothing, now get in the hotspring with her and chillout/ relax without gaffing and drooling. Enjoy the moment you have with her, she might get killed in the next episode.

Or, yes her clothes are ripped, help her out with your spare clothes and check her wounds without being an awkward weirdo. Yes she has nice tits and a toned midriff. As to be expected from being athletic. No need to turn into a horny 12 year old that has never seen anything.

I just wish Anime was more mature in this regard. This is another issue I have with some series, how the MC or many characters in general have 0 self esteem or mojo.

 

[Pink Fluffy Cat]

Yeah that's why I'm not really into anime anymore now, and not just for romance, this also applies to other aspect as well. Overused cliches / jokes and over exaggerated acting are what drove me away from the anime scene as whole. Probably because that I'm not a targeted audience anymore and the producers have found the formula to be the most effective toward it's audience demography which consists mostly teenagers and overworked wagies. I just wish anime can be more mature in general as well.

 

[no_chill]

Yeah that's why I'm not really into anime anymore now, and not just for romance, this also applies to other aspect as well. Overused cliches / jokes and over exaggerated acting are what drove me away from the anime scene as whole. Probably because that I'm not a targeted audience anymore and the producers have found the formula to be the most effective toward it's audience demography which consists mostly teenagers and overworked wagies. I just wish anime can be more mature in general as well.

Oh yeah. It kind of feels like producers think their IP is an isolated Island and audiences never watch or watched any other anime when they use those cliches. There are a few noteworthy exceptions. I could probably list Goblin Slayer. However the whole stick of the MCs face being constantly hidden and a Mystery is dangerously on the edge of being annoying. Here it makes sense that he has problems getting close romantically with women, given he was forced to witnessed the violent rape and murder of his sister. Being awkward and broken towards love and lust is a convincing expression of trauma in that case.

I watched arifureta and there it was implied that the MC falls in love and sleeps with one of the female characters. They did kind of used the western way of depicting it, with cuts and dialogue hinting at it. MC is also Mature and you can witness him changing character over several episodes which is a refreshing change. Yes so many say he is turning into an asshole but I dont see it like that. He is just treating the others like they treated him.

Sometimes I have this daytream of producing an "Anime" (it cant be an anime if its made in europe to be precise) that does away with all the stupid stereotypes and cliches and shows characters with self esteem and principles. But that doesnt make them invincible or OP. But rather convincing and eager. That need to overcome great hardship and kind of "Triumph of the Will" their people.

 

[llillilll]

Action and romance is ruined by the early financial issues early animes faced. Most anime made before they got a good budget had one sided characters that built a simple story around their adventures. Stories were one sided and if status quo was going to change, it had to change in a drastic way. Writing characters that change over time is hard and boring while adventures are fun and engaging. When anime gained money and finance the community was already ruined by one sided characters and cliches. They barely ever write characters with traits that interact with each other because the community is already used to this. Characters won't grow over time in anime, they live throught something and just git gut by it. Even in animes where improvement is constant like Gurren Lagann, characters don't gain anything over time if they didn't decide status quo changed
When i joke about anime being shit, thats the serious underline. There are about a dozen or so quirks and personality traits in a basket and they just pick some of them and call that pile of quirks and personality traits a characters. Thats why literally every type of girl has a name in anime.

 

[SomaSpice]

I agree with a lot of the points you make, but you can't bring up Danmachi, Konosuba, and Goblin Slayer as examples where maturity should be expected. Its like asking YA novels to NOT be YA novels. If you search around in seinen, 80s stuff, or works clearly more focused on being art (for example satoshi kon's movies) you will find maturity. I think the problem is that you're solely examining this issue in the lens of mass-media for teenagers. Have you seen ghost in the shell? The original movie has various scences with titties but its never taken as something more than circumstancial nudity which makes sense in the context of the scene.

Having said that, I do agree with the sentiment that characterization and romance tends to be piss poor in that specific genere of anime, and it would be pretty interesting if they made more effort in making the characters act like actual people.

 

[Vetusomaru]

And yes, Hentai. We literally only have polar opposite. Suddenly in Hentai theres no holds back and they show the most unhinged stuff possible.

I wished they took more western elements when it comes to this topic.

Are you a newfag or something? Many hentai games and manga have actual story (and great one on top of that) while western porn be like "Hello ma'am. I'm your delivery boy. Let's have sex.".

 

[dorgon]

Are you a newfag or something? Many hentai games and manga have actual story (and great one on top of that) while western porn be like "Hello ma'am. I'm your delivery boy. Let's have sex.".

no_chill's remarking about the crazy shit that happens in hentai, e.g. loli, gore, etc. Problem with hentai is that, since it's animated and not real life, it gives weirdos a lot more flexibility for depraved shit. Doesn't matter if it's "an actual story" or whatnot, there's always room for that crazy shit to happen. Add that and the way porn in general works with your brain and you've got a very deep rabbit hole no one should go into.

 

[no_chill]

I agree with a lot of the points you make, but you can't bring up Danmachi, Konosuba, and Goblin Slayer as examples where maturity should be expected. Its like asking YA novels to NOT be YA novels. If you search around in seinen, 80s stuff, or works clearly more focused on being art (for example satoshi kon's movies) you will find maturity. I think the problem is that you're solely examining this issue in the lens of mass-media for teenagers. Have you seen ghost in the shell? The original movie has various scences with titties but its never taken as something more than circumstancial nudity which makes sense in the context of the scene.

Having said that, I do agree with the sentiment that characterization and romance tends to be piss poor in that specific genere of anime, and it would be pretty interesting if they made more effort in making the characters act like actual people.

I mean, are those anime considered mass media? Compared to western mass media series like TWD, Lost or even Stargate then well. Perhaps the anime I watch are too limited because we have a huge licensing problem here. For starters: Crunchyroll is not accessible for me. Netflix and Amazon prime have many anime region locked. You cant buy many anime here. So Im stuck watching anime that allow there licenses to be sold in mainland europe. Im not a fan of pirate sites because of lacking quality and the likes

 

[SomaSpice]

I mean, are those anime considered mass media?

Yes.

So Im stuck watching anime that allow there licenses to be sold in mainland europe. Im not a fan of pirate sites because of lacking quality and the likes

Yarr matey! You scallywag shall never know the treasure trove that is the ancient animation from the island at the eastern end of the world. He who dares not sail uncharted waters will never taste forbidden pleasures!

 

[Outer Heaven]

Yeah that's why I'm not really into anime anymore now, and not just for romance, this also applies to other aspect as well. Overused cliches / jokes and over exaggerated acting are what drove me away from the anime scene as whole. Probably because that I'm not a targeted audience anymore and the producers have found the formula to be the most effective toward it's audience demography which consists mostly teenagers and overworked wagies. I just wish anime can be more mature in general as well.

The reason anime is like this is because the industry is so insular. It takes no inspiration from any other mediums or even real life because the people making anime are otakus just like the people consuming it. This is what Miyazaki meant when he said his famous "anime was a mistake" quote. The medium is recycled because people dont look anywhere else to draw inspiration so most mangaka and anime studios explore the same themes and topics ad nauseam. Its not a coincidence that all the most famous and popular mangaka draw heavy inspiration from outside cultures. Its the reason manga like JoJo's stay fresh instead of turning into a light novel about having sex with elves in another world.

It also doesnt help that the most lucrative publications are all aimed at teenagers and cant go into more adult themes at the risk of losing their audience's attention. Its hard to make a manga about something other than highschool appeal to teens who have only ever experienced highschool. Worse is the fact that in Japan, highschool is seen as the peak of a person's social life before they have to grind uni and work, so the setting is inherently appealing as an escape to an earlier time for older readers too.

 

[no_chill]

The reason anime is like this is because the industry is so insular. It takes no inspiration from any other mediums or even real life because the people making anime are otakus just like the people consuming it. This is what Miyazaki meant when he said his famous "anime was a mistake" quote. The medium is recycled because people dont look anywhere else to draw inspiration so most mangaka and anime studios explore the same themes and topics ad nauseam. Its not a coincidence that all the most famous and popular mangaka draw heavy inspiration from outside cultures. Its the reason manga like JoJo's stay fresh instead of turning into a light novel about having sex with elves in another world.

It also doesnt help that the most lucrative publications are all aimed at teenagers and cant go into more adult themes at the risk of losing their audience's attention. Its hard to make a manga about something other than highschool appeal to teens who have only ever experienced highschool. Worse is the fact that in Japan, highschool is seen as the peak of a person's social life before they have to grind uni and work, so the setting is inherently appealing as an escape to an earlier time for older readers too.

Reading this and again I got the brilliant idea of "Anime that is not made by japanese". Spot on with the Japanese culture, wagecucking and high school stuff.

Amazon made an anime esque series titled "Vox Machina". And for all intents and purposes I classify anime by the drawing style and premise. If you can ignore the many woke garbage vox machina has shoved in, it is something I like and is/ has adult and mature content. A lot of dumb humour though and cliches of its own.

 

[Outer Heaven]

Reading this and again I got the brilliant idea of "Anime that is not made by japanese". Spot on with the Japanese culture, wagecucking and high school stuff.

I don't think the solution is none Japanese anime, its for Japan to take inspiration from outside then close again. The history of Japan as a nation has always been isolationist but the largest bursts of cultural production in Japan have always happened when they open up a little bit before closing again. This happened with the Dutch and the Portuguese and many times with the Chinese. The Japanese cycle goes like this: open up a bit and take inspiration from outside, close the border and have a cultural renaissance adapting the foreign influence organically into Japanese culture, slowly stagnate after this then repeat

 

[Mеченый Яков]

Dorohedoro anime needs a second season.

 

[butt3rfly_s0up]

100% agree with this. I used to be ADDICTED to anime, i was watching from 13-26 episodes on a school day.

Dorohedoro anime needs a second season.
View attachment 57202

it's so underrated

 

[Vetusomaru]

I don't think the solution is none Japanese anime, its for Japan to take inspiration from outside.

AHAHAHAHAHA! Inspiration from whom? Western corporations making one woken crap after another with most of them flopping really hard and having zero originality?

The times when Western corporations used to inspire Japanese creators are over long time ago. Now it's Western corporations that try to get inspired by Japanese products or even hire Japanese companies to make new Japanese products, especially with anime.

 

[UCD]

The only reason people watch anime is that there is a complete vacancy everywhere else in the world of animation made for a teen audience that isn't a comedy sitcom (simpsons knockoff #29710934) Most anime is pretty trash by any standards you could come up with, its just has zero competition. As soon as all the non japanese people that love anime get into their countries big studios we are probably going to see non japanese animation with heavy inspirations from anime in 5-10 years.

 

[llillilll]

The only reason people watch anime is that there is a complete vacancy everywhere else in the world of animation made for a teen audience that isn't a comedy sitcom (simpsons knockoff #29710934) Most anime is pretty trash by any standards you could come up with, its just has zero competition. As soon as all the non japanese people that love anime get into their countries big studios we are probably going to see non japanese animation with heavy inspirations from anime in 5-10 years.

Edgerunner already exists, people will just follow its footsteps or learn anything from Hits like Arcade or Helluva Boss in the west. The best case scenario would be mangakas learn how to write characters from those well done western animations but there are a giant group that believes anything that comes out of west is horrible and anything Japan produces is perfect soo if they try to open their eyes to what westerns do and say, they will probably hear those groups before looking at what western animations are doing then close their gates again.

 

[SomaSpice]

Edgerunner already exists

But edgerunners was made by studio trigger? Or wdym?

 

[llillilll]

But edgerunners was made by studio trigger? Or wdym?

I thought it was western writer and eastern studio, i was wrong. CD gave just the ideas and main characters but eastern writers wrote everything else. Which proves they can write good romance, they just don't