Aphantasia and the Apple Test

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SacredNeetHourai

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This is gonna come off as snobby and elitist, but a question to all 4s or 3s... Can you actually literally not imagine a detailed apple in your head? I understand you obviously can't literally see a detailed red apple, but is it actually impossible for you to imagine said red apple?

EDIT: I'm not trying to shame you if you can't, I'm genuinely wondering what happens if you try to imagine a detailed red apple.
 

nsequeira119

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I know all about Aphantasia. One of my characters in one of my ongoing ARGs is named after Aphasia, which is a similar disorder where you can't recognize human speech.

I don't have it, but I would say it's not all that important unless you're an artist. I think to be a good visual artist, you have to be able to see things that aren't really there- to see curves, angles, and so on. I have heard stories of people who have aphantasia but can miraculously paint really well- sort of like the stories of deaf music prodigies or whatever- but in general, if you can't see complex patterns or basic geometry without a reference, art isn't for you.

As someone whose visual cortex has always been probably the most active region of my brain, I initially found it weird when I first got into the professional art market and saw that artists took "commissions" where they would get paid to paint other people's concepts. I was like "Why do you need to pay someone to draw this thing? Can't you just draw it yourself?" But now I'm more mature and I recognize that I'm abnormally good at drawing things and people, freakishly so, and I should be proud of that.
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microbyte

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As someone whose visual cortex has always been probably the most active region of my brain, I [...] of that.
That's interesting. For me, my visual cortex has also always been one of the most active regions as well, but I've always sucked at drawing. I can come up with all these stuff, but committing them to paper or tablet has always been the hardest thing.
I wonder if there is some sort of separate part of your brain active in drawing/painting but not just visualizing? Like the visualizer part passes it off to the drawer part?
 

nsequeira119

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That's interesting. For me, my visual cortex has also always been one of the most active regions as well, but I've always sucked at drawing. I can come up with all these stuff, but committing them to paper or tablet has always been the hardest thing.
I wonder if there is some sort of separate part of your brain active in drawing/painting but not just visualizing? Like the visualizer part passes it off to the drawer part?
Yeah, I would imagine. The brain is the most complex organ in the human body, and I'm not a neurologist by any means, but even people who study the brain full-time have no idea how it works exactly. I do imagine, though, that there are multiple steps involved besides visualization. Getting your hands to move the pencil correctly, for instance, requires good motor neurons- hand eye coordination- and not everyone has that.
 
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handoferis

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I don't have it, but I would say it's not all that important unless you're an artist. I think to be a good visual artist, you have to be able to see things that aren't really there- to see curves, angles, and so on.
tbf, only really a problem with physical art. digital art with no visualization is easy but tedious cause you can fix stuff without it being a big trauma and once you've done a shit version it's v easy to just do it again but better
 
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Taleisin

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That's interesting. For me, my visual cortex has also always been one of the most active regions as well, but I've always sucked at drawing. I can come up with all these stuff, but committing them to paper or tablet has always been the hardest thing.
I wonder if there is some sort of separate part of your brain active in drawing/painting but not just visualizing? Like the visualizer part passes it off to the drawer part?
Yeah, I would imagine. The brain is the most complex organ in the human body, and I'm not a neurologist by any means, but even people who study the brain full-time have no idea how it works exactly. I do imagine, though, that there are multiple steps involved besides visualization. Getting your hands to move the pencil correctly, for instance, requires good motor neurons- hand eye coordination- and not everyone has that.
Good observation, and response here. Yes, there are lots of different systems that need to work together to produce a drawing vs merely visualising. Beyond hand-eye fine-motor coordination, you need to be able to create iterations of different abstract steps during drawing, such as seeing different aspects and knowing which shapes to create first. Additionally, being able to "see" a visualised shape overlaid onto paper is a relevant skill for instance.

Learning to draw is primarily learning to use a tool-kit for making each step of drawing easier, more formal versions of this might include using construction techniques for instance. There's planning involved, and confidence in committing to lines, and also abstract understandings of how elements of a drawing fit together to produce a certain effect. Each of these needs to be linked together in a clear and natural way within your concepts and practise during drawing.

You may even have all the skills needed for drawing, but the issue is one of communication between different levels and types of understanding about drawing, and also between execution and ideation. In that case, what you really would need is to able to change your "state of consciousness" (the way you feel/perceive/relate/think) so that whatever is getting in the way of this communication can be bypassed. For example, you might be too caught up in your self-reflective/narrative mode of thinking and need to be able to become absorbed into the act and experience of drawing without constantly checking against your thoughts. This may seem difficult because the checking you are doing seems like it should prevent mistakes, whereas you actually would need to trust your skills to work without your oversight (and that means you need to practice until they are natural).
 
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