Are we not gonna talk about the dark parts of vaporwave like very extreme christwave,fashwave and WorldCorp Enterprises? (PIC UNRELATED)

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Deleted member 1930

you sound like a discord edgestar
You need to get out more. I've never been, and will never be on discord

do you suppose you'd be less bitter/angry/jealous if you logged off the internet. Just weird that you instantly respond to my posts. Kinda creepy
 

Deleted member 2040

The United States has a belief in freedom of speech, represented quite eloquently by Evelyn Beatrice Hall "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Considering that in the modern day, a group of fascists call themselves anti fascist, I am very suspect of everyone's views on such a subject. In my opinion, the lefts intolerance and increasing rigidity will only breed a farther right mentality amongst it's victims, just as the rights did back in the 60's with the hippies, and in the 80's with the punks, and the grunge kids in the 90's. Those who are so easily disregarded for arbitrary reasons will always become the new counter culture. The pendulum swings, the more one side pulls the harder it swings in reverse. Two sides fighting for control over human nature will only cause needless suffering throughout a futile effort. I am merely an observer and I believe balance is Humanity's best chance for prosperity.
You are exactly correct in this, and a possibility of Orwell's Thought Police may sprout for this very reason. Agents of disinformation rejoice in such bandying and furthering the rift between those two political sides, and the methods are becoming increasingly sophisticated, and scammers and other such denizens of the cesspool are crawling to assimilate the dungheap into their practices too...

To me the dissemination of disinformation is one of the worst aspects of technology which won't get any better. The best way to combat this is good judgment (which is slowly waning) and education.
 

Deleted member 2040

i hate them all
sez the guy who makes it and talks of it.
Suspicious Monkey GIF by MOODMAN
 
Seeing this thread pop up again, I'll copy/paste some stuff to chew on below, including a post I made in another thread about this

Since I see free speech being discussed a bit here:
First, if any opinion is compelled to silence, that opinion may, for aught we can certainly know, be true. To deny this is to assume our own infallibility. Secondly, though the silenced opinion be an error, it may, and very commonly does, contain a portion of truth; and since the general or prevailing opinion on any subject is rarely or never the whole truth, it is only by the collision of adverse opinions that the remainder of the truth has any chance of being supplied. Thirdly, even if the received opinion be not only true, but the whole truth; unless it is suffered to be, and actually is, vigorously and earnestly contested, it will, by most of those who receive it, be held in the manner of a prejudice, with little comprehension or feeling of its rational grounds. And not only this, but, fourthly, the meaning of the doctrine itself will be in danger of being lost, or enfeebled, and deprived of its vital effect on the character and conduct: the dogma becoming a mere formal profession, inefficacious for good, but cumbering the ground, and preventing the growth of any real and heartfelt conviction, from reason or personal experience.
source (yeah, I'm sourcing wikipedia, but it's actually from John Stuart Mills' On Liberty)

If the above is interesting to anyone but you don't want to read the original text (ie: too long and wordy), I enjoyed the first edition of All Minus One (and I'm just now learning that there's a second!). It's available as a free PDF as well.

I also just wanna say that MANMAN aka Mr. Nintendo Chalmers is certainly trolling. And I wouldn't be surprised if he continues to promote "fashwave" just because it seems to upset people.

There are many more important issues in the world than a "microgenre" "promoting" "fascism," and I'm certain that we all know this. There are vegans who will happily tell you exactly how much you're damaging the environment by eating meat; there are Apple anti-fans who will happily tell you that you're supporting slave labor by owning an iPhone; there are insane Twitter lefties who will happily tell you that you contribute to "rape culture" by watching films produced by The Weinstein Company. The list goes on and on. The internet is not real life, and the vast majority of people simply don't care if you enjoy or even produce music/videos with a "war aesthetic," and most people who do are mostly into it for the aesthetic alone. For the few that are legitimately hate-filled bigots and latch onto "fashwave," what do you do?

You call for censorship and "big tech" flexes its muscles and kicks anything with a "war aesthetic" off of their platform. Where do these people go? They just suddenly stop being hate-filled bigots? It should be pretty obvious where they go: out of your sight and away from your conversation; in an age already filled with "political bubbles," there is now an even lower chance that they will ever hear an opinion that differs from their own, and their community becomes more tightly knit than ever before. But you'll still feel good, and still feel like you accomplished something, because you were a part of the movement that got those awful "war aesthetic" videos banned! Nevermind the fact that you accomplished nothing of value; you still feel like you did!

Maybe I was a bit mean at the end there, but eh. I just feel like there's an unjust "cancellation" almost weekly at this point, and it does upset me more than it should. Maybe I need to sit down and read some Marcus Aurelius, lol.

Anyhow, onto my final copy/paste!

Must we agree with the artist, the art's audience, or even the art itself in order to enjoy it? It can certainly help to agree with the art's message, but is it a necessity?

I generally avoid funding art created by artists that I vehemently disagree with, or art that promotes ideologies that I vehemently disagree with or find dangerous. But, if the art is good, I'm happy to consume it but try to avoid funding it. Of course, I'll inevitably fund someone awful whether I know it or not for sure.

I think that it's easy to empathize with the viewpoint that separating the art from the artist is almost required to consume a lot of art, considering how many awful stories are consistently pumped out of Hollywood and how many artists have a checkered past (or even present). I think where most people lose my point of view is that I don't mind consuming media that promotes a disgusting ideology; I'll just try not to fund it in any meaningful way.

This is an area where I'm happy to learn more about people's opposing opinions, where they draw their lines, and what their rationale for those boundaries is. But for me personally, my mind is made up: if I like it, I like it, regardless of whether or not it promotes an ideology that I find dangerous or abhorrent.

As for the specific videos you posted:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T79Pb1qHeII

Well, I've listened to Crimewave probably over a hundred times in the last year or so, and I'm a huge fan of HEALTH. I love this song and I don't think it has anything to do with war. As for the video, I don't know the context of any of these clips. For some comparison: people grab music and throw together anime clips showcasing a character slaughtering a bunch of bad guys; but I don't know anything about those bad guys, all I see is a guy blowing a bunch of people away John Wick-style. "Look at how cool this looks" is all I get out of those videos, and "look at how cool this looks" is all I get out of this video. I don't know the context to any of these military clips in the same way that I don't know the context behind an AMV (or whatever those anime music videos are called). Not really my cup of tea, but it isn't upsetting to me in any way.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyiW3acN2ug

Love this song as well! It isn't clear what we're supposed to think about Desert Storm from the context given, but if you said "it's supposed to be celebratory," I would only be able to ask how you know for sure. And very well, it could be! I think that only its creator can say for sure, but we'll talk about him later.

In any case, this is one of the highest voted comments under the video:



At least a good amount of people watching this video are agreeing with the premise, or at least finding this interpretation to be interesting, that this is "a sort of tongue-in-cheek" type of video. This doesn't prove good intentions of the video's creator of course, but it's clearly a comment made in good faith that doesn't insist that the conflict itself was good. I said earlier that I don't personally need the audience's opinion to validate or invalidate my enjoyment of a piece of art, but it's interesting to consider nonetheless. This video also isn't exactly my cup of tea; it's still more of the same "look at how cool this looks" but with context that I can quickly dig deeper into. Hell, I wouldn't have even looked at the Wikipedia page for the Gulf War if I didn't stumble across this forum thread linking me to that video. Onward!


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBCbMXOICY8

I knew I recognized this one, as well! Reminds me that I should revisit Danger again. I love this song, and that marching drum beat is, well, a marching drum beat! War fits 100% with the song, and the only context that we're being given from the video is a bunch of planes flying around in various formations and pulling off different maneuvers, some primitive 3d-modeling of possibly a war zone, the date 6/8/86, and the "War Aesthetics" intro. Maybe this video is in reference to the 1986 bombing of Libya that was in response to the West Berlin discotheque bombing, but the timelines don't seem to match up. It seems to just be, "look at these cool planes!" with music that perfectly fits the "war aesthetic." (edit: I somehow forgot to add the "AGGRESSORS" title to the context. It's worth considering, but I'm done typing for now after writing all of this, lol)

My conclusion?

None of this is my cup of tea, but I don't see any of this as an "issue" in any way. I find the more interesting story to be in the comments section: from what I can gather, the channel that originally created and uploaded these videos ended up under the threat of being doxxed and deleted the channel because his personal life was being affected. Now that is what makes me uncomfortable, and a lot more uncomfortable than some songs that I love being played over some war footage. The message is clear: the mob decides what art is acceptable and what art isn't; either keep it to yourself or face the consequences. I can't say for sure if any of this is true, however, but searching around online all leads to the same story.

Happy to hear different perspectives, but this is mine. I recently had a conversation with some close friends that was kicked off with the question, "is it okay to create 'fascist' music that isn't outright condemning it?" We all agreed that this was acceptable and didn't really have any disagreements on the details, but it was interesting to explore anyways. To summarize our conclusion, I think it would be something like, "fiction is fiction." I'm always surprised that people on the left take a huge problem with violence being showcased in art and fail to acknowledge that it was mostly people on the right who wanted "shock rock" and rap gone in the 90's. It never feels like a principled, morally righteous, or virtuous position -- it always feels like people want to attack ("cancel") anything that they disagree with or don't like, and choose to latch on to the same arguments that they were fighting against not long ago.

Just my opinion! Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.


Hope y'all are doing well this week. I'm certain that not everyone will agree with me or see my point of view, and that's fine. But I personally hate the idea of living in a bubble, and I'm happy to see differing opinions on this site (even if some are trolls :)), and I'm happy to share my own
 
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Deleted member 2006

Seeing this thread pop up again, I'll copy/paste some stuff to chew on below, including a post I made in another thread about this

Since I see free speech being discussed a bit here:

source (yeah, I'm sourcing wikipedia, but it's actually from John Stuart Mills' On Liberty)

If the above is interesting to anyone but you don't want to read the original text (ie: too long and wordy), I enjoyed the first edition of All Minus One (and I'm just now learning that there's a second!). It's available as a free PDF as well.

I also just wanna say that MANMAN aka Mr. Nintendo Chalmers is certainly trolling. And I wouldn't be surprised if he continues to promote "fashwave" just because it seems to upset people.

There are many more important issues in the world than a "microgenre" "promoting" "fascism," and I'm certain that we all know this. There are vegans who will happily tell you exactly how much you're damaging the environment by eating meat; there are Apple anti-fans who will happily tell you that you're supporting slave labor by owning an iPhone; there are insane Twitter lefties who will happily tell you that you contribute to "rape culture" by watching films produced by The Weinstein Company. The list goes on and on. The internet is not real life, and the vast majority of people simply don't care if you enjoy or even produce music/videos with a "war aesthetic," and most people who do are mostly into it for the aesthetic alone. For the few that are legitimately hate-filled bigots and latch onto "fashwave," what do you do?

You call for censorship and "big tech" flexes its muscles and kicks anything with a "war aesthetic" off of their platform. Where do these people go? They just suddenly stop being hate-filled bigots? It should be pretty obvious where they go: out of your sight and away from your conversation; in an age already filled with "political bubbles," there is now an even lower chance that they will ever hear an opinion that differs from their own, and their community becomes more tightly knit than ever before. But you'll still feel good, and still feel like you accomplished something, because you were a part of the movement that got those awful "war aesthetic" videos banned! Nevermind the fact that you accomplished nothing of value; you still feel like you did!

Maybe I was a bit mean at the end there, but eh. I just feel like there's an unjust "cancellation" almost weekly at this point, and it does upset me more than it should. Maybe I need to sit down and read some Marcus Aurelius, lol.

Anyhow, onto my final copy/paste!



Hope y'all are doing well this week. I'm certain that not everyone will agree with me or see my point of view, and that's fine. But I personally hate the idea of living in a bubble, and I'm happy to see differing opinions on this site (even if some are trolls :)), and I'm happy to share my own
since you were quite rude, you can go fuck yourself.
 

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