Are we not gonna talk about the dark parts of vaporwave like very extreme christwave,fashwave and WorldCorp Enterprises? (PIC UNRELATED)

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cryptfrog

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I think people just coopt vaporwave because it's very easily identifiable and it's kind of easy to pull off with a copy of some DAW / photoshop and few traditional skills. This usually results in a shallow aping of the style though which is definitely what fashwave comes across as.
 
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My two cents, semantic discussions like this why fascism isn't a good choice of words in contemporary political discourse. There are differing views on authoritarianism, usage of violence as a tool etc., but then again, they are just two of the axes of many we need to consider when identifying ideological tendencies. And one way you can tell that a word has suffered enough inflation to become basically meaningless is how to completely opposite sides of the spectrum use that word to discredit each other. For sure, there are some contemporary movements that adhere to fascism and can be accurately described as such, but this misuse of the term isn't a service to anyone.

This isn't to say that I'd symphatize with any currents on the far-right (or the right in general, but that's somewhat irrelevant here) but to say that everything bad = fascism isn't just poor analysis but even harmful in the long run. I oppose run-of-the-mill conservatism, but to call that fascism isn't useful at all. And one can oppose antifa, but as Memoryhead did excellent job at pointing out, it's not fascism.
agree to disagree I guess

In my eyes, the differences, intent, etc are crystal clear and easily defines

I think fascism (or communism) is a completely valid term to use. it may be open to (mis)intepretations about what it is or what makes up the ideology, and I think proper knowledge of these things require quite an extensive and objective world view to be able to tell what is real vs what is a misnomer or misrepresentation. My distinct hatred for leftism, and the regression it represents wouldn't probably get ME labeled a fascist. In fact, I know it does, people like the Clintons and Obama and even Klansman Biden have been calling me a fascist since I've been old enough to vote. If hating racism, oppression and censorship make me a fascist, then so be it. I certainly won't be peer pressured into hating black people because Joe Biden is mad about living in a "racial jungle"


most people have never stepped outside of what the media tells them in terms of what fascism is or communism is. I've read a lot on fascism, I've read a lot on communism, from many sides and perspectives

Know thy enemy as thy know thyself, as they say.

authoritarianism can be left or right, as can violence. a regime being authoriarian simply does nothing to explain or expand upon what the ideology of the authority is. Again, Lincoln was an authoritarian, as was Adolf Hitler. You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who would put them on the same ideological team.

I really don't know how any sane person can be against conservatism, to me it sounds pretty close-minded and antiquated. conservatism and what it stands for (civil liberties, personal sovereignty, individualism) are all evolutionary imperatives, I don't see why anyone would want to hold on to outdated, feudalist concepts championed leftists. Modern leftism in itself is completely derived from exclusion of civil and economic rights, and is an attempt to industrialize old, 12th century feudalism and fiefdom. Leftism is an outdated crippled dinosaur that is on it's last gasping breaths. it's political senility. evolution has selected it for extinction. leftists are like people bitterly clinging to horse drawn buggies while everyone else is moving onto cars.
 
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giphu

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agree to disagree I guess

In my eyes, the differences, intent, etc are crystal clear and easily defines

I think fascism (or communism) is a completely valid term to use. it may be open to (mis)intepretations about what it is or what makes up the ideology, and I think proper knowledge of these things require quite an extensive and objective world view to be able to tell what is real vs what is a misnomer or misrepresentation. My distinct hatred for leftism, and the regression it represents wouldn't probably get ME labeled a fascist. In fact, I know it does, people like the Clintons and Obama and even Klansman Biden have been calling me a fascist since I've been old enough to vote. If hating racism, oppression and censorship make me a fascist, then so be it. I certainly won't be peer pressured into hating black people because Joe Biden is mad about living in a "racial jungle"


most people have never stepped outside of what the media tells them in terms of what fascism is or communism is. I've read a lot on fascism, I've read a lot on communism, from many sides and perspectives

Know thy enemy as thy know thyself, as they say.

authoritarianism can be left or right, as can violence. a regime being authoriarian simply does nothing to explain or expand upon what the ideology of the authority is. Again, Lincoln was an authoritarian, as was Adolf Hitler. You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who would put them on the same ideological team.

I really don't know how any sane person can be against conservatism, to me it sounds pretty close-minded and antiquated. conservatism and what it stands for (civil liberties, personal sovereignty, individualism) are all evolutionary imperatives, I don't see why anyone would want to hold on to outdated, feudalist concepts championed leftists. Modern leftism in itself is completely derived from exclusion of civil and economic rights, and is an attempt to industrialize old, 12th century feudalism and fiefdom. Leftism is an outdated crippled dinosaur that is on it's last gasping breaths. it's political senility. evolution has selected it for extinction. leftists are like people bitterly clinging to horse drawn buggies while everyone else is moving onto cars.
I appreciate the thoughtful response.

I also have a strong dislike for the Democratic establishment, just as much as for the Republicans. Now, not living in the US, this isn't so relevant for me personally, but just wanted to be clear about this. I take a strong stance against racism and oppression too, censorship is a bit more complex issue and I'm not fundamentally for free speech per se, but at least it seems to me that censorship tends to cause more harm than good at this time.

As a leftist myself, this equation of leftist politics with feudalism is a curious one, since I've literally never heard anyone claim this before, and to be honest I cannot think of any basis for your claims. Of course, I'm highly critical of "civil and economic rights" granted by the state and the idealistic explanation of their origins. But this critique shouldn't be read as simply opposition to the "civil rights" itself, but rather as an attempt to form a more coherent idea of human freedoms, than this set of rights granted by the constitution or whatever. But, just for the sake of argument, even if I did oppose civil rights, that in itself wouldn't be feudalism any more than mere authoritarianism doesn't make fascism, no?
 
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giphu

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Guys,we are still talking about vaporwave.Right?
I think that if we are to discuss the political aspect of vaporwave, it's crucial to consider that in relation to the bigger picture. Art doesn't exist in a vacuum.
 
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I appreciate the thoughtful response.

I also have a strong dislike for the Democratic establishment, just as much as for the Republicans. Now, not living in the US, this isn't so relevant for me personally, but just wanted to be clear about this. I take a strong stance against racism and oppression too, censorship is a bit more complex issue and I'm not fundamentally for free speech per se, but at least it seems to me that censorship tends to cause more harm than good at this time.

As a leftist myself, this equation of leftist politics with feudalism is a curious one, since I've literally never heard anyone claim this before, and to be honest I cannot think of any basis for your claims. Of course, I'm highly critical of "civil and economic rights" granted by the state and the idealistic explanation of their origins. But this critique shouldn't be read as simply opposition to the "civil rights" itself, but rather as an attempt to form a more coherent idea of human freedoms, than this set of rights granted by the constitution or whatever. But, just for the sake of argument, even if I did oppose civil rights, that in itself wouldn't be feudalism any more than mere authoritarianism doesn't make fascism, no?
Communism is feudalism

free speech should have no limits

You are a dinosaur
 

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giphu

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Communism is feudalism

free speech should have no limits

You are a dinosaur
Bit rude, and also I gotta say that I'm a little bit disappointed, this seemed like what could have become a fruitful and interesting conversation, but whatever.

Also it's interesting how you decided to bring the term communism in when I was talking about leftist politics more broadly, bit ironic given how this whole discussion started from the inaccurate usage of fascism, but I guess only one of these labels is acceptable to use to discredit those who disagree with you.
 
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joypistols974@aol.com

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The United States has a belief in freedom of speech, represented quite eloquently by Evelyn Beatrice Hall "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Considering that in the modern day, a group of fascists call themselves anti fascist, I am very suspect of everyone's views on such a subject. In my opinion, the lefts intolerance and increasing rigidity will only breed a farther right mentality amongst it's victims, just as the rights did back in the 60's with the hippies, and in the 80's with the punks, and the grunge kids in the 90's. Those who are so easily disregarded for arbitrary reasons will always become the new counter culture. The pendulum swings, the more one side pulls the harder it swings in reverse. Two sides fighting for control over human nature will only cause needless suffering throughout a futile effort. I am merely an observer and I believe balance is Humanity's best chance for prosperity.
L.O.L
 
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Bit rude, and also I gotta say that I'm a little bit disappointed, this seemed like what could have become a fruitful and interesting conversation, but whatever.

Also it's interesting how you decided to bring the term communism in when I was talking about leftist politics more broadly, bit ironic given how this whole discussion started from the inaccurate usage of fascism, but I guess only one of these labels is acceptable to use to discredit those who disagree with you.

be honest with yourself, no fruitful conversation was ever going to come from this and I think you know that. you support what you support, I support what I support. I will never, ever, under any circumstance, be able to sympathize with your ideology, nor you with mine

Communism IS leftist politics. I don't think you'll find an analysis anywhere that describes communism as anything but left wing.

there's nothing "ironic" about the discussion, this would only apply if we were comparing 2 like/similar things, and we aren't. it is acceptable to use communism to discredit others because it is morally, ethially, and economically reprehensible. misuse of the term fascism, has nothing at all to do with the correct usage of the term communism.

it's got nothing to do with me disagreeing or not, this would be the case whether I was even born or not. if I didn't exist at all, this would still be the case.
 

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Everyone.Stop arguing,we dont need to bring politics into our music genre.We are the music of peace and understanding not a bunch of morons arguing over politics.lets not fight over some 12 yo making a subgenre of politics

Do you know what art is? how it typically functions. art is born of the human mind, the human mind itself, politics itself is a societal embodiment of the human mind.

pretending music cant have a political component is extremely anti-humanist, and anti-art in general.

get woke, please, it's 2021
 

IlluminatiPirate

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be honest with yourself, no fruitful conversation was ever going to come from this and I think you know that. you support what you support, I support what I support. I will never, ever, under any circumstance, be able to sympathize with your ideology, nor you with mine

Communism IS leftist politics. I don't think you'll find an analysis anywhere that describes communism as anything but left wing.

there's nothing "ironic" about the discussion, this would only apply if we were comparing 2 like/similar things, and we aren't. it is acceptable to use communism to discredit others because it is morally, ethially, and economically reprehensible. misuse of the term fascism, has nothing at all to do with the correct usage of the term communism.

it's got nothing to do with me disagreeing or not, this would be the case whether I was even born or not. if I didn't exist at all, this would still be the case.
If there was never gonna be a fruitful conversation then why even respond at all? Honestly this is just disappointing man. I can't you actually said that. This is just embarrassing smh DKFail
 
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If there was never gonna be a fruitful conversation then why even respond at all? Honestly this is just disappointing man. I can't you actually said that. This is just embarrassing smh DKFail
why respond? because it's important to defend what's right, even if it makes people feel bad.

homeboy outed himself as a leftist. it's massively important to counteract things like that. I didn't do it debate or come to some agreement/compromise. it was for education
 

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The OG vaporwave makers never indented it to be political,it was just supposed to be a musical genre instead of something political.But NO NO NO we cant have something unless its political.
lol, kids these days smh
 

giphu

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why respond? because it's important to defend what's right, even if it makes people feel bad.

homeboy outed himself as a leftist. it's massively important to counteract things like that. I didn't do it debate or come to some agreement/compromise. it was for education
Okay I should give this a rest but I'll just respond to this real quick.

I don't know how you see it, but believe me or not, I wasn't looking to change your mind, debate, or even try to find any kind of compromise. It's not what makes for fruitful conversation. Honestly, I didn't have anything else interesting going on at the moment, and thought I'd try to learn more about your views and open up my thought process too, you know, have a conversation. But I guess this again goes to show that politics do not make for good casual conversation.

I still don't even know what you mean by leftism. You keep talking about feudalism, but I've literally never heard anyone make that same comparison. I do not feel more educated.

Anyway, I hope there are no hard feelings about this. It's not usually a good idea to talk politics online, and this is just proof of that. Should have remembered it. Also I keep wondering if there are cultural differences at play here, given that I live in a country with strong social democratic tradition, and you're from America I believe?
 
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