Catholic Church future

[dreamsphere]

the "Truth" does not matter to the people in power

The Truth matters to those that wish to live in reality, which is eternity.

 

[LiraTirsoCaduceo]

My non-Christian opinion is that the Pope should be Christian. Not progressive, not conservative. Just Christian and stick with those values.
Forget about trying to plot getting more people into the church like most people say. What's the point of a religion if it's going to submit to the whims of temporal winds?
If the church dies, which won't happen anyway, it would die Christian.

 

[ControllerJunkieツ]

My non-Christian opinion is that the Pope should be Christian. Not progressive, not conservative. Just Christian and stick with those values.
Forget about trying to plot getting more people into the church like most people say. What's the point of a religion if it's going to submit to the whims of temporal winds?
If the church dies, which won't happen anyway, it would die Christian.

but that's conservatism

 

[LiraTirsoCaduceo]

but that's conservatism

Define conservatives.
Because all the self identified conservative Christians I met seem to be the kinds who enshrine Tatcher and Reagan alongside John Paul II

 

[ControllerJunkieツ]

Define conservatives.
Because all the self identified conservative Christians I met seem to be the kinds who enshrine Tatcher and Reagan alongside John Paul II

Keeping current/previous values without the need to change purely in the name of progress. Purest form of conservatism.

 

[Nyx9572]

My non-Christian opinion is that the Pope should be Christian. Not progressive, not conservative. Just Christian and stick with those values.
Forget about trying to plot getting more people into the church like most people say. What's the point of a religion if it's going to submit to the whims of temporal winds?
If the church dies, which won't happen anyway, it would die Christian.

conservatism and right wing values are (or were) tied to the teachings of the Church. it was the left who revolted against Christian values.

 

[TrollKing]

As a non-catholic man who doesn't keep up the pope's opinions, I just want to know one thing. What was Francis's opinion on the crusades?

 

[LiraTirsoCaduceo]

Keeping current/previous values without the need to change purely in the name of progress. Purest form of conservatism.

But a lot has changed in the Church since Vatican II, and a lot of self-called conservatives are very alienated from tradtional Christianity. Again whenever I see a conservative Christian in real life they seldomly seem to care about spiritual matters. It's all very focused on temporal issues. Like getting angry the Pope didn't denounce X figure they don't like or that he didn't visit the country.
I'm sure you've seen the kinds in your country. Here it's all filled with Libertarians, for example.

conservatism and right wing values are (or were) tied to the teachings of the Church. it was the left who revolted against Christian values.

>still using right-left as if they actually mean anything
How so? I could see it if you meant the reactionaries from the time of the French revolution(and even then let's not pretend the Bourbon absolutism wasn't the result of the anti-Christisn enlightenment). But today? The right wing is merely defending yesterday's revolution.

 

[Nyx9572]

>still using right-left as if they actually mean anything
How so? I could see it if you meant the reactionaries from the time of the French revolution(and even then let's not pretend the Bourbon absolutism wasn't the result of the anti-Christisn enlightenment). But today? The right wing is merely defending yesterday's revolution.

that's why I used the word "were". up until around the 50s the right was close to the Church. it wasn't until after that when the right became "leftism from 10 years ago"

 

[LiraTirsoCaduceo]

that's why I used the word "were". up until around the 50s the right was close to the Church. it wasn't until after that when the right became "leftism from 10 years ago"

The right has been liberal and burgeoisie since the industrial revolution. And has made an effort to infiltrate the church and reduce it's power ever since, just as the Liberal revolutions that preceded it.

 

[Nyx9572]

The right has been liberal and burgeoisie since the industrial revolution. And has made an effort to infiltrate the church and reduce it's power ever since, just as the Liberal revolutions that preceded it.

the "right" meant royalist/monarchist up until 1918. after 1918 it's hard to decide on what would be "right" since communism, national socialism and liberal democracy both would've been left wing by pre-1918 standards.

 

[RisingThumb]

Forget about trying to plot getting more people into the church like most people say. What's the point of a religion if it's going to submit to the whims of temporal winds?

The Great commission is about spreading the Gospel, which is about establishing churches across the world, even to places where free religious expression is crushed. A church is a gathering of Christians, though you also have church buildings and you can easily confuse the two. This great commission is part of why people are concerned about bringing more people in. Then from Matthew 16:24-26

24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 25 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it. 26 What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?

What you're advocating for, is the imitation of Christ, which is indeed the point of Christianity. Christ spreads the Gospel, and the great commission is also about spreading the gospel(which is part of why the 4 gospels are sometimes expanded as The Gospel according to Mark... Matthew etc).

I completely agree with you about The Imitation of Christ. These words aren't an accident, they're also a reference to a 1400s book on the topic by the same name.

If the church dies, which won't happen anyway, it would die Christian.

but that's conservatism

Keeping current/previous values without the need to change purely in the name of progress. Purest form of conservatism.

And now you might be seeing why Orthodox and hardline Catholic belief is on the rise. If you're a Christian, you shouldn't be caring if your values are conservative or liberal, but if they're truth. The Christian perspective that all men are equal before God, even black slaves was a liberal perspective during 1700s-1900s America(which deceivers made their own form of the Bible for this end), and nowadays the pendulum swings the other way and Christian values are conservative...

 

[Some_porcupine]

that's why I used the word "were". up until around the 50s the right was close to the Church. it wasn't until after that when the right became "leftism from 10 years ago"

i seen opposite, "left is right from 10 years ago"...

changes: (jk)

View: https://youtu.be/bNPOAuVn7KU

 

[Nyx9572]

i seen opposite, "left is right from 10 years ago"...

you're joking. tell me one thing that hasn't moved further to the left

 

[Some_porcupine]

you're joking. tell me one thing that hasn't moved further to the left

yet it is ending, nowadays - it is as with frutiger aero - it was quick promise and minimal results, - so it is with DEI/ESG that got popular ad then busted (because it was just cashgrab and pullup from those who benefit n lofty dreams.) behind facade, ESG/DEI was just same old nepotism...

what i refer to, is "new left" that is conservative, support war, nato and want their (young) voices to be heard (tho that is maybe just central, western europe; tho damn this populism...)

 

[dreamsphere]

It is not a left vs right conversation.

 

[Nyx9572]

what i refer to, is "new left" that is conservative,

conservative in what sense? if you mean conserving their own leftist values you might have a point. otherwise leftist values moved further to the left.

support war, nato and want their (young) voices to be heard (tho that is maybe just central, western europe; tho damn this populism...)

ok but that doesn't make anyone right wing. that was just neocons being liberals that wanted to push liberal values to the rest of the world, so they were always leftists. the right hasn't been in power since 1945, or 1918 even.

 

[ĦĦĦ]

guys i know how this works i watched Conclave!

 

[ControllerJunkieツ]

guys i know how this works i watched Conclave!

boring ass movie btw - main character didn't question anyone, people just said stuff

 

[ĦĦĦ]

i hope the Filipino becomes Pope