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Cultural changes you've noticed in your lifetime

brentw

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The whole slacker thing, right? Being an old millennial, I might stick up for this a little. Apathy aside, it was at least based on a recognition that the prevailing culture was somehow inherently unhealthy and cynical, leading to a distrust of politicians, media and corporate culture. Along with this came an admiration for alternative ways of forging your path in the world. Plus, excessive self promotion was seen as yuck.

I'm not saying slacker was necessarily practical or offered any kind of great philosophical insight (what youth culture does?), but I do still appreciate some of its underlying sentiments. It's certainly better than hustle culture, influencer culture and or simping for the corporatocracy. Withdrawing in disgust is not the same as apathy.

I'd also add that meme culture (as much as I often enjoy it) is a sign that apathy and nihilism haven't gone anywhere. What's that about humour being the death of feeling?

I'm not totally sure.
I feel like "slackers" were similar, but not quite the same subculture as the whole caring about stuff is lame thing.

As I sit here and think about it, in retrospect the not-caring-is-cool thing definitely had that edgy 90's vibe to it.
Whereas slackers are just about the least edgy thing I can imagine.
 
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it is more of meme(tic virulence)
post-2013 slackerism is more of slacktivism - is the practice of supporting a political or social cause by means such as social media or online petitions, characterized as involving very little effort or commitment. Wikipedia; Halfhearted activism, usually in the form of posting badges, images, apps, or text on social media without taking further action. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activism . Various people and groups express doubts about the value and effectiveness of slacktivism. Particularly, some skeptics argue that it entails an underlying assumption that all problems can be seamlessly fixed using social media, and while this may be true for local issues, slacktivism could prove ineffective for solving global predicaments.[14]... Micah White has argued that although slacktivism is typically the easiest route to participation in movements and changes, the novelty of online activism wears off as people begin to realize that their participation created virtually no effect, leading people to lose hope in all forms of activism.[16] > A 2011 study looking at college students found only a small positive correlation between those who engage online in politics on Facebook with those who engage off of it. Those who did engage only did so by posting comments and other low forms of political participation, helping to confirm the slacktivism theoretical model.[18]
...

See also​

40px-Wiktionary-logo-en-v2.svg.png

Look up slacktivism in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

 
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I'm not totally sure.
I feel like "slackers" were similar, but not quite the same subculture as the whole caring about stuff is lame thing.

As I sit here and think about it, in retrospect the not-caring-is-cool thing definitely had that edgy 90's vibe to it.
Whereas slackers are just about the least edgy thing I can imagine.
Found this, click username
This isn't older people ruining trends, it's people who want to make a quick buck. Hustle culture commodifies people's enjoyment and turns it into niche markets for exploitation. This happened in the vintage keyboard hobby over covid when dickheads started market manipulating, but we are a small enough hobby that we eventually ran those people out.

It's a function of both "hustlers" existing and also stupid paypigs with bigger wallets than sense giving them the money to continue to make it profitable. You can only stop it by forming a united front against both types of people.
 
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Jodo_Fan

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@brentw @Ross_Я

Okay, I'm confusing two things. Probably because, despite being the right age, I never really came across 'lame to care' culture. Was it an American thing that didn't make it to other countries?

But I still think slacker and its values was a fairly strong current right up to the late 2000s. You can smell it in the various indie scenes pretty easily, and even pop culture threw up regular examples in film, etc. of finding meaning through going against the current, or defining for yourself what success is. With some exceptions, youth politics, too, was quite resistant to getting sucked into the mainstream and tended to be quite an individual affair. (Maybe we could count Occupy Wall street as a last hurrah here?). And then there's the live and let live liberalism.

These things didn't start with slacker, sure, but they were definitely a part of it.

@Some_porcupine

So slacktivism lets people feel like they're doing something while actually doing nothing and keeps them hating on their fellow citizens. Who could this possibly benefit? It's like the pyramids, a mystery. :confusedMikasa: (<<--- Another mystery: Who's Kaguya?)
 

punishedgnome

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@brentw @Ross_Я

Okay, I'm confusing two things. Probably because, despite being the right age, I never really came across 'lame to care' culture. Was it an American thing that didn't make it to other countries?

But I still think slacker and its values was a fairly strong current right up to the late 2000s. You can smell it in the various indie scenes pretty easily, and even pop culture threw up regular examples in film, etc. of finding meaning through going against the current, or defining for yourself what success is. With some exceptions, youth politics, too, was quite resistant to getting sucked into the mainstream and tended to be quite an individual affair. (Maybe we could count Occupy Wall street as a last hurrah here?). And then there's the live and let live liberalism.

These things didn't start with slacker, sure, but they were definitely a part of it.
Ever see the image of a cool guy going "whatever" in comics or cartoons or film or whatever?

"Did you know they are experimenting on monkeys?"
"Whatever..."

"We'll die if we stand here!"
"Whatever..."

"I love you."
"Whatever..."

"You failed your exam."
"Whatever..."


That was peak big dick energy in the 90s. It's funny because most people actually did aggressively care about seeming like they didn't care.

Ever watch Beavis and Butthead? It's making fun of how kids at the time didn't give a shit about anything. That's how Mike Judge perceived 90s teenagers.
 
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Jodo_Fan

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Ever see the image of a cool guy going "whatever" in comics or cartoons or film or whatever?

"Did you know they are experimenting on monkeys?"
"Whatever..."

"We'll die if we stand here!"
"Whatever..."

"I love you."
"Whatever..."

"You failed your exam."
"Whatever..."


That was peak big dick energy in the 90s. It's funny because most people actually did aggressively care about seeming like they didn't care.

Ever watch Beavis and Butthead? It's making fun of how kids at the time didn't give a shit about anything. That's how Mike Judge perceived 90s teenagers.

Yeah, yeah, you're right. My memory obviously isn't what it used to be. But I see those examples as more of a take-off of societal listlessness than an actual subculture people IRL aspired to. Not Beavis and Butthead. They were just morons. And you've always had those around.

Anyway, maybe the 'whatever' brigade were just crypto Buddhists?

"Did you know they are experimenting on monkeys?"
"All life is suffering"

"We'll die if we stand here!"
"The wise do not grieve, having realized the nature of this world."

"I love you."
"This too shall pass"

"You failed your exam."
"I welcome the opportunity to detach from Maya's palace of illusion."

EDIT: Thinking about this, maybe the slacker ethic has always been around and merely rises to cultural prominence every now and again in different forms.
 
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Yeah, yeah, you're right. My memory obviously isn't what it used to be. But I see those examples as more of a take-off of societal listlessness than an actual subculture people IRL aspired to. Not Beavis and Butthead. They were just morons. And you've always had those around.

Anyway, maybe the 'whatever' brigade were just crypto Buddhists?

"Did you know they are experimenting on monkeys?"
"All life is suffering"

"We'll die if we stand here!"
"The wise do not grieve, having realized the nature of this world."

"I love you."
"This too shall pass"

"You failed your exam."
"I welcome the opportunity to detach from Maya's palace of illusion."
i love what Xavier the renegade angel says about that in the first episodes, so on point lol
 
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*now*
"Trends, social media, reality" (i.e., Trends i keep seeing)


Trends i keep seeing... (click on username for whole January '24 (thread) blogpost)
 
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Jodo_Fan

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Here's one. Bullying is way more socially frowned upon than it used to be. I was talking to a young relative recently, she tells me about this class in school (I don't remember what it was called) where they basically just talk about self esteem and empowerment. Man, I remember when teachers (some of them, anyway) would throw things at you, hit you, call you stupid, and say you'd never amount to anything. And I'm only talking twenty-five to thirty years ago. The contrast is stunning.

Same goes for bosses at work. A politician in the UK got into trouble a few years back for allegedly bullying his staff. The complaints included swearing and putting his hand in someone's face to stop them talking. When I started out in the working world, you expected your boss to be a raging, ranting asshole. Even the nice ones sometimes lost their shit.

Obviously, bullying is not nice, but things may have gone a little too far in the other direction....
 
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nsequeira119

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I would say the world has changed a lot in the last 20 years in certain ways, and hasn't changed in other ways. It's mostly been culturally stagnant, but on the other hand it's been politically transformed. There are still movies coming out today that I could see coming out back in 2003 or so, like for instance I could see "65" with Adam Driver or "Meg 2: The Trench" coming out back then, harmless popcorn fluff like that. But a lot has happened in the real world during the same time frame- the Recession, Occupy Wall Street, the Arab Spring, Black Lives Matter, the Russo-Ukrainian War, and especially Covid. And every presidential term feels like an entirely separate era of civilization, whereas back in the late 20th Century the transitions from president to President felt a lot smoother.

On a local level, Denver has become way more gentrified than it was when I was growing up. That's undeniable. I remember when Denver was an integrated, diverse place to live, and it's slowly been eroded in favor of a bunch of overpriced taprooms and dispensaries, and everyone complains about rent. It seems they're trying to turn it into the next Seattle (I don't think that'll work out in the end, Denver is much too resilient for it).

Denver Comic.png
 
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Jodo_Fan

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On a local level, Denver has become way more gentrified than it was when I was growing up. That's undeniable. I remember when Denver was an integrated, diverse place to live, and it's slowly been eroded in favor of a bunch of overpriced taprooms and dispensaries, and everyone complains about rent. It seems they're trying to turn it into the next Seattle (I don't think that'll work out in the end, Denver is much too resilient for it).

I read recently that the underground scenes in major US cities are now mainly comprised of rich kids, because they're the only ones who can afford the sky high prices. Do you think this is true?
 

nsequeira119

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I read recently that the underground scenes in major US cities are now mainly comprised of rich kids, because they're the only ones who can afford the sky high prices. Do you think this is true?
That's a good question. I would say that this is certainly a problem with the music scene here- I don't see enough girl bands, I don't see enough LGBTQ+ bands, and I don't see nearly as much hip hop and hardcore punk as I would like to see. I don't think the underground scene here even remotely represents the demographic who are actually marginalized- poor people here barely have the time or energy to focus on music.

I wouldn't consider myself rich by any stretch of the imagination, in fact I probably fit into the lowest possible tax bracket, but I engage with the scene because I'm bored and I need audiovisual stimulation, and I'd much rather listen to a sort of cheesy ska group or something than the legitimately horrible, abysmal chauvinistic country shit that's supposedly the "mainstream" here (but which has no actual place in Denver's history or culture, and was introduced about a decade ago by the even richer and more insufferable kids).

As for other cities, I can't say for sure. I don't think Denver necessarily has it as bad as Vermont or something, or L.A. where everyone is an industry parasite- Denver is kind of unique in that bands here don't feel competitive, they feel extremely cooperative and they all just help each other out to gain any semblance of notoriety. Denver is a petri dish unto itself- but I would say it's been diluted since the 80s, and you have to really search a while before happening across a good band. That might not be the fault of rich kids per se, it could just be that punk, like any genre that starts out with sincerity and grit, will eventually become a little more commercialized and played out. The same happened with hip hop, and the same is starting to happen with vaporwave.
 
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Jodo_Fan

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That's a good question. I would say that this is certainly a problem with the music scene here- I don't see enough girl bands, I don't see enough LGBTQ+ bands, and I don't see nearly as much hip hop and hardcore punk as I would like to see. I don't think the underground scene here even remotely represents the demographic who are actually marginalized- poor people here barely have the time or energy to focus on music.

I wouldn't consider myself rich by any stretch of the imagination, in fact I probably fit into the lowest possible tax bracket, but I engage with the scene because I'm bored and I need audiovisual stimulation, and I'd much rather listen to a sort of cheesy ska group or something than the legitimately horrible, abysmal chauvinistic country shit that's supposedly the "mainstream" here (but which has no actual place in Denver's history or culture, and was introduced about a decade ago by the even richer and more insufferable kids).

As for other cities, I can't say for sure. I don't think Denver necessarily has it as bad as Vermont or something, or L.A. where everyone is an industry parasite- Denver is kind of unique in that bands here don't feel competitive, they feel extremely cooperative and they all just help each other out to gain any semblance of notoriety. Denver is a petri dish unto itself- but I would say it's been diluted since the 80s, and you have to really search a while before happening across a good band. That might not be the fault of rich kids per se, it could just be that punk, like any genre that starts out with sincerity and grit, will eventually become a little more commercialized and played out. The same happened with hip hop, and the same is starting to happen with vaporwave.

Thanks for the answer. Apart from anything else, it was nice to hear about Denver. I thought you guys just sat around all day listening to Rocky Mountain High or something. And, yeah, we most definitely shouldn't hold anything against rich kids as a category, but I suspect they don't make for the most fertile creative soil when gathered en masse. Of course, it's possible to enjoy almost anything when it's live.

Your post also reminds me of how unerringly backwards looking culture is these days. Rejigging dated styles, peddling the same old genres for decades, harking back to past eras, has there ever been a culture so obsessed with the recent past? It's all very odd. I suppose the more optimistic view could be that the second half of the twentieth century was such a time of creative breakthrough that we're still in a processing phase. Either that, or this is what being on the down slop(e) of a civilizational bell-curve feels like.

Thanks again!
 
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Your post also reminds me of how unerringly backwards looking culture is these days. Rejigging dated styles, peddling the same old genres for decades, harking back to past eras, has there ever been a culture so obsessed with the recent past? It's all very odd. I suppose the more optimistic view could be that the second half of the twentieth century was such a time of creative breakthrough that we're still in a processing phase. Either that, or this is what being on the down slop of a civilizational bell-curve feels like.

Thanks again!
"slow cancelation of future", hauntology. all that (liminal spaces too/anemoia)...
since taking risks and thinking new "in this economy" wont work much, it is frowned upon, and kind-of forgotten now (thanks, 2008!)
also, as we seen, first decades of XXIst century werent the kindest to these dreams (that went on from 80s, 90s, y2k... but so does Cyberpunk in 80s - but that is different reasons) - of free (internet) education and media (fuck copyright), independent media, betterment of society not because of threats and manipulation - but from pure curiosity (remember when Animal planet, History channel or Discovery (Ch.) were good? well, so like that...) - something like idk, NPR but on drugs - New Enligthement ... "Age of Aquarius", where people would get together, façades (masks) will fall off, we will fuck monopolists and technocrats in ass love will guide us... (a man can dream)
 
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Jodo_Fan

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"slow cancelation of future", hauntology. all that (liminal spaces too/anemoia)...

I was aware of the concept of the liminal in anthropology (shamans, rites of passage, that sort of thing), but the rest is new to me. I've got some internet searching to do.... Thanks!
 
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some are good, others are just snarky takes

- bad

- little rants ˘

and list go on - https://www.tumblr.com/tagged/baby boomers

...

+edit

View: https://twitter.com/MKatorin/status/1678641211362488322?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1678641211362488322%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
 
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continuation - takes

[[scroll-up]] - "takes" (2 - img)
[[down]] - "fakeness"



e.g.
useless.png

slacking on society and culture, capitalism...

!!!
#2 detail:

(read my yap on where i cite "science.jpg (80s/90s 2000s 2010s takes)" and 2000s cries
and similar vein
;

(https://forum.agoraroad.com/index.php?attachments/the-history-of-science-png.86228/) which i cited
( - https://forum.agoraroad.com/index.p...anything-new-in-your-lifetime.4042/post-97891 )



!!!

rel:
...

youd wish...
 
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fakeness: wtf happened in 2010s that people now support rich people/monopolies? (not all irl, but on interent, most of normies), like they ever care, provide something... they do, but we surely could do better (ok, id stop here and wait away my black parade 20-sec phase...)
expanded
(yeah, i originally posted it in more-of wrong thread, but they are all more-or-less related)

explored in the fakeness, snark...
(new)

rel^

then, scroll up

[[scroll-up]]
 
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