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Cultural changes you've noticed in your lifetime

consonant

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Don't know if I really have much to add to this because I've always been a social hermit but
- People used to identify around interests, hobbies and attitudes. Now it's all about products, brands, and whichever trend they are following at the time
This has been one of the stranger changes for me instead of just liking something people are now cultist fans of everything and I'm not sure why, gatekeeping is dead as fuck so I'm guessing it's because fandoms became so popular? I guess it's just apart of our nature to want to identify as something but I think people identifying with series and things has just gotten a lot more apparent.
now I regularly see buff dudes watching the likes of Sword Art Online and Re:Zero on the gym treadmills. Not too long ago a well-adjusted and otherwise normal girl who used to pick on me for being a nerd in middle school made a Facebook post about how she was a fan of Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid. I almost had a stroke.
Also very jarring for me, I knew that anime had become more mainstream but I thought it was in a "people think it's weird but they won't really judge you for it" way but after seeing my classmates actually talking about what anime series they watch I just thought "holy shit". It's easy to pick out the normies though because mostly just watch shit like shonen. I'm surprised a gymbro would be watching dragonmaid though, it's popular but I know there's a bit of people who would call you a pedo for watching it lol.
 
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scaldanon

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I stumbled across my old junior high year book from 2002 recently, and of course the cover was a big waving American flag. I've been wondering if the strict wokeness you get from upper class types isn't a hard reaction against the uber patriotism you got after 9/11. I heard a story a few years ago, where kids were suspended for waiving a Blue Lives Matter flag at a football game on the anniversary of 9/11 to honor the police who died in the ruble of the WTC. That would
absolutely unthinkable even 5 years ago.



Here is just my own loose bullet points of thing I've noticed:
  • Being an unabashed douchebag as a young white male used to be a big thing, in the model of Fred Durst and Kid Rock. Andrew Tate is bringing it back I guess
    • Related, I don't see wiggers like I used to. If you even use the term "Wigger" people will think you're talking about Muslims in China.
  • While Woke/Political Correctness were around, they were routinely mocked my mainstream media instead of constantly coping and carrying water for it
  • 90's was all about XTREEEAAAMMM and being IN YOUR FACE. The 00's still had a sense of irreverence but was overall more chill about it. I think of the Chappelle Show is a good time capsule of what 00's attitudes were like. Nowadays anything seen as even slightly edgy in either rhetoric or aesthetic is shunned, with products aimed at adults having ads that would have seen too childish for even children of those eras.
  • Gender relations were a lot better
  • People were much more optimistic about the bright new future the Internet and technology was going to bring.
    • User generated content from the likes of Twitter and Youtube was seen as almost cute and supported by mainstream outlets.I remember when Time magazine named You! as the person of the year in the 00's. Now they do everything to undermine these platforms and any would be independent creators that could be competition to them
  • There was much less of a polarization about everything, even before the Towers coming down creating a united front in the face of an enemy attack on the homeland. So for example we are more suspicious yet trusting of the government, with more people being hardcore tinfoil hatters that would put 90's militia types to shame, while some people take government proclamations as gospel.
  • Evangelicals had much more influence and were annoying, though the current day wokies have surpassed them in both departments
    • You either were a Christian or a Fedora Atheist, rarely anything in between (unless you were an ethnic minority from a non-Christian culture). Occult/Estoeric stuff and ideas was largely seen as New Age bullshit for aging gullible boomers, and either an affront against Holy God or Holy Science.

All good points, though I disagree with the last one. It seemed that in the mid-to-late 2000s, everything was vampires, gothic, tarot, "Magick" and Wicca. Lots of supernatural themes in fiction as well, there was really a hunger for this kind of thing.

In addition, it's funny that while [current year] may on the surface seem to be more libertine, it isn't. People are more entrenched into dogma than ever. The 2000s were actually unironically a more libertine time. People were in general less judgmental and more open-minded. The fedora atheists have by and large founded a new religion to follow (the cult of woke)
 

consonant

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I had to do a lot of work to reshape my way of thinking after losing my faith, as there was a lot of gaps that needed to be filled and replaced with well reasoned positions, and it's clear these people haven't done that work. This is also where the modern surge of feminism has come from - a bunch of anti-religious people who have not done the mental work needed to actually develop a worldview independent of religion, so they jumped out of one cult and immediately into another, complete with dogma, priests, and all the other nonesense you expect from a typical religion.
I like this view a lot it really puts into perspective how important religion is. I've been struggling with this my whole life because I have basically no parental influence and never was that into religion so for the most part I've just imprinted on the internet, and now I think this shit is lame so I just have to find out what I think is right and wrong myself.
Idk if that means there are now shops that sell it, if you just won't get arrested for personal use, but that's still a major shift nonetheless
There are definitely shops that sell weed in Illinois I'm like a few minutes away from one lol
Honestly, control is a MUCH larger and more important issue these days than privacy, and it's the sort of issue where we can show tangible, every day effects, whereas privacy is a much harder sell because it usually comes down to "this group you despise got censored" (which most people will see as a good thing anyway, and something that can't happen to them), or some hand-waivey wishy washy argument about how government and companies can do Bad Things™ with their data, like automated policing, which are still in their infancy and used rarely, so most people see it as conspiracy nonesense.
This is a correct as fuck observation and more people should think this. Especially because I feel like it's so much harder to wrangle privacy than control. Though it might be just as hard of a sell because people could think "Well I've never seen Microsoft/Apple/etc. remove one of MY programs so I'll be fine".
 
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All good points, though I disagree with the last one. It seemed that in the mid-to-late 2000s, everything was vampires, gothic, tarot, "Magick" and Wicca. Lots of supernatural themes in fiction as well, there was really a hunger for this kind of thing.
This could be a regional thing as well. My area was slower to pick up on trends. I kept hearing about Emos in the mainstream media for years, but I didn't see any until my senior year of high school with the incoming freshmen. There was a lot of tension over religion vs atheism among my peer group in my late teens and early 20's This was also the height of the "The New Atheist" movement when Dawkins was a respected author.
 
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InsufferableCynic

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  • Gender relations were a lot better
I have noticed this too and it's quite ironic that feminism has basically made women undesirable and uncompromising to the point of doing serious damage to gender relations, rather than getting the "muh equality" they like to whinge about constantly.
Ooo this is a biggie that gets overlooked. The fact we all carry what would have been state of the art A/V equipment at all times has shifted things in a worse way. A lot of what enables "Cancel Culture" and it's discontents is that anyone can whip out their phone and capture public meltdowns that would have just faded into the ether years ago.
Yes. People say that "everyone looking at their phones all the time in public" is the big problem (boomers especially like to make fun of this), but the reality is, people who do that are at least passive. They are only ruining their own lives. Much worse are the people who whip out their phone at the first sign of trouble because "you're going viral douchebag". Karens, feminists, race-baiters, they all basically jump at the chance to hurt someone else using their phones, and it's disgusting. It needs to stop.
This has been one of the stranger changes for me instead of just liking something people are now cultist fans of everything and I'm not sure why, gatekeeping is dead as fuck so I'm guessing it's because fandoms became so popular? I guess it's just apart of our nature to want to identify as something but I think people identifying with series and things has just gotten a lot more apparent.
Honestly, I think the reason is because the attitude around learning and growth has been eroded completely, largely by promises of products and companies of instant results, and making things so easy and basic that there's nothing of value to learn about them.

People use to believe that if they worked towards something great - art, shooting, some technology or humanitarian project, etc, then they would accomplish and do well over time. The community members would foster each other and lift each other up to do the best they can. People sought out an interest so they could learn and grow and become better at the interest. Now, we have convinced everyone that they can do literally anything and that they don't need to put any effort in (in fact, putting in effort is considered to be for dorks). Part of this is because people prefer to simply buy "instant success" products rather than learning anything.

The tech scene is a good example of this. Tech nerds used to mainly be programmers or other people who needed to use a computer for whatever reason. In most cases where were multiple choices, each with disadvantages. Computers were difficult to learn but very powerful once you learned them. People would thus form communities around specific technologies - UNIX, DOS, Apple II, Xerox etc, and would be happy to share tips and tricks with each other. The InfoSec community is still a bit like this, and is somewhat healthy as a result.


Because of the way technology has changed, it's now designed to be as simple, easy, and basic to use as possible. There's no more need for a technology community. There's nothing left to talk about. So people instead talk about current events - the latest iPhone, etc. Then the whole community degenerates down into brand loyalty and infighting about who has the coolest stuff.

It seems every other aspect of society has gone this way too. Movies are now so easy to digest by anyone that they say nothing (Marvel is a good example). It seems every aspect of our culture has been carved up and sold as a product, with so much mass appeal that it has become meaningless. Of course the fandoms around things are going to go the same way.

In addition, it's funny that while [current year] may on the surface seem to be more libertine, it isn't. People are more entrenched into dogma than ever. The 2000s were actually unironically a more libertine time. People were in general less judgmental and more open-minded. The fedora atheists have by and large founded a new religion to follow (the cult of woke)
I think the Atheism+ movement was the moment where the atheist movement went from an anti-religious reactionary movement to an alternate religion with it's own dogma.

I don't actually think the 90's and 00's were full of edgy >redditcostanzayeahrightsmirk fedora atheists. Most atheists I met in these times were usually pretty genuine about it. The edgy atheist thing has largely cropped up in the last generation as they have rebelled against their parents and their "stupid sky daddy"
I like this view a lot it really puts into perspective how important religion is. I've been struggling with this my whole life because I have basically no parental influence and never was that into religion so for the most part I've just imprinted on the internet, and now I think this shit is lame so I just have to find out what I think is right and wrong myself.
Yes. Maybe it's worth a thread on it's own, but the way I see it, humans are naturally wired to need some sort of purpose, so they usually make one up if they can't find it (hence religion). Once you break that cycle, there's a very real feeling of emptiness that goes along with it, and if you've been taught from birth that morality comes from god, and you no longer believe in god, then it's imperative that you build a rational framework upon which to base your sense of morality.

Personally I don't think "god says it's evil therefore it's evil" is a particularly good moral system. It's completely arbitrary and prevents perfectly healthy, normal behaviour while promoting extreme injustice, but it's at least SOMETHING. When you leave that behind, your brain has to fill it in with something new. You usually have a choice, either hit the philosophy books and build a rational basis for morality (which in my opinion will give you a far stronger set of convictions than any religious faith will, because it's based on something tangible), or accept an arbitrary moral position usually based on politics (killing babies is okay because my political party says so, etc). I chose the former, unfortunately a lot of people who become atheists choose the latter. I feel they do so because they aren't really interested in religion and don't really have genuine reasons to not find it convincing, in many cases they are teenagers rebelling against their parents. So of course, there's no reason to flush out the dogma from their mind (anyone who is an atheist for genuine reasons should consider dogma in and of itself to be extremely undesirable), they just accept new dogma instead. Usually in the form of feminism or communism or some other form of ism (also autism).
This is a correct as fuck observation and more people should think this. Especially because I feel like it's so much harder to wrangle privacy than control. Though it might be just as hard of a sell because people could think "Well I've never seen Microsoft/Apple/etc. remove one of MY programs so I'll be fine".
I disagree. I feel like even normies are starting to wake up and realise how out of control they are when it comes to their technology. They may not have directly lost a book or whatever, but pretty much everyone I know has been banned from facebook for some period of time. This isn't just edgy conservatives "trolling the libs" either. I know plenty of liberals who posted a meme only to have it deleted and them banned for arbitrary "ToS violations". Youtubers are also complaining in droves that they are constantly being demonetized for things like 1 second of music appearing in their video, so it's being kept in the public consciousness.

Privacy, on the other hand, is still very much a niche issue. People like Rob Braxman will talk about it at length, but in general people don't care and see privacy advocates as weird pseudo-criminals who must have something evil to hide.

The nice thing about convincing people to take back control is that it gives them privacy for free. When you use a system you control, by it's very nature it's not backdoored or tied to any other company, which largely guarantees you privacy as long as you use it correctly.

I am constantly annoyed at activists like Edward Snowden (I do respect him quite a lot though) who keep wasting their time talking about privacy. It's the wrong argument to make. It's such a hard sell and I don't feel he is going to make much headway at all amongst the general population - the only people who seem to listen to him are already privacy advocates. Worse, he isn't some random conspiracy theorist like Braxman, he showed real tangible evidence of large-scale government spying programs - probably the best confirmation we will ever get of hugely anti-privacy initiatives by the government - and yet nobody cares. Had Snowden just spent one day talking about how Facebook can change your political opinions through propaganda, how Google can manipulate search results to make controversial sites disappear, how your smart kettle can disable itself after 2 years to force obsolescence, how smart home systems can lock themselves down and demand a subscription even after you paid full price for them, and how content on Netflix and other platform can be poofed out of existence for no reason, THEN maybe people would start to care. People made such a big stink over the Cambridge Analytica thing, much more so than the revelations that the US government is literally inspecting and cataloguing every packet on the entire internet.
 

handoferis

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The tech scene is a good example of this. Tech nerds used to mainly be programmers or other people who needed to use a computer for whatever reason. In most cases where were multiple choices, each with disadvantages. Computers were difficult to learn but very powerful once you learned them. People would thus form communities around specific technologies - UNIX, DOS, Apple II, Xerox etc, and would be happy to share tips and tricks with each other. The InfoSec community is still a bit like this, and is somewhat healthy as a result.
Eh, you say this, but some of the worst, 2 IQ tech opinions I've ever seen have been from other programmers. I think everyone's always been thick as pigshit and we're just forgetting how bad people were before.
 
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InsufferableCynic

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Eh, you say this, but some of the worst, 2 IQ tech opinions I've ever seen have been from other programmers. I think everyone's always been thick as pigshit and we're just forgetting how bad people were before.
Oh totally. Programmers have been taken over by the same plague. What used to be people discussing computer science is now people talking about the latest trends in JavaScript libraries.

It has affected programmers too.

Since abandoning the core learning and knowledge required, programmers have now largely become people who move around code with no understanding of the consequences of what they are doing.

Web programmers are especially bad. I wouldn't even call the majority of them programmers.
 

handoferis

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Oh totally. Programmers have been taken over by the same plague. What used to be people discussing computer science is now people talking about the latest trends in JavaScript libraries.

It has affected programmers too.

Since abandoning the core learning and knowledge required, programmers have now largely become people who move around code with no understanding of the consequences of what they are doing.

Web programmers are especially bad. I wouldn't even call the majority of them programmers.
oh 100%, though at the moment I feel like java programmers are the worst, probably just cause i'm exposed to them.

build at work can take upwards of 4hrs, never heard anyone giving a shit about complexity or the fact they have to continually get given bigger build boxes, never seen a developer fix a build being shit, in fact, never seen a developer do anything but spew out more java boilerplate while complaining that eclipse is shit without doing anything about that either.
 
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InsufferableCynic

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oh 100%, though at the moment I feel like java programmers are the worst, probably just cause i'm exposed to them.

build at work can take upwards of 4hrs, never heard anyone giving a shit about complexity or the fact they have to continually get given bigger build boxes, never seen a developer fix a build being shit, in fact, never seen a developer do anything but spew out more java boilerplate while complaining that eclipse is shit without doing anything about that either.
I used to work as a Java developer.

Everything you say is correct.

Every bad design philosophy, such as the Singleton Pattern, Service Locator, Factory Methods, etc all came from Java. They are all terrible ideas.

Java coders generally have no idea what they are doing, but it's a language powerful enough for them to do real damage. Most Python programmers don't know what they are doing either, but Python is such a limited language and the projects are so small (usually) that it's pretty much impossible to completely fuck everything up.

Still, you haven't met PHP developers. They are the worst of the worst. Horrible language, with horrible standards, and horrible developers who abuse those horrible standards to produce unrecognisable, barely-functional masses of code (think 2000 line functions), that they then expect to run some of the most advanced websites in the world. That's a recipe for disaster. No matter so many websites get hacked when PHP is insecure by default and 95% of PHP developers are too incompetent to know how to secure it (or care).
 

handoferis

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Still, you haven't met PHP developers. They are the worst of the worst. Horrible language, with horrible standards, and horrible developers who abuse those horrible standards to produce unrecognisable, barely-functional masses of code (think 2000 line functions), that they then expect to run some of the most advanced websites in the world. That's a recipe for disaster. No matter so many websites get hacked when PHP is insecure by default and 95% of PHP developers are too incompetent to know how to secure it (or care).
I managed to swerve the big PHP project at $company, kinda counting my lucky stars after seeing some of the stellar "minds" they have there.
 
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InsufferableCynic

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I managed to swerve the big PHP project at $company, kinda counting my lucky stars after seeing some of the stellar "minds" they have there.
Just think of doing ANYTHING involving classes in a language where references don't work properly.

The fact that people are okay with that should say everything you need to know about the mindset (or lack of mind-set) needed to be a PHP developer
 

handoferis

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Just think of doing ANYTHING involving classes in a language where references don't work properly.

The fact that people are okay with that should say everything you need to know about the mindset (or lack of mind-set) needed to be a PHP developer
jesus I just looked this up and I think I'm ready to drill my eyes out
 
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quick

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Normies in 2008: Last night's family guy was soo funny. Can't wait to go camping this weekend :) just hit 10th prestige in cod
Normies since 2016: Correlation is not causation. CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION. CORRELATION. IS. NOT. CAUSATION.

- The internet. My parents would chastise me for chatting online when I was younger since they believed every person masquerading as a kid was actually a 40-something year old sex offender. Today my mother has Facebook account and has not only befriended complete strangers on there but has invited local ones over to her home. I've met a few of them and luckily none of them are complete psychopaths (yet).

I loved this cultural shift. It only took a year for my mom to go from responsibly lecturing me on internet safety when she saw me chatting with strangers in an online game to screaming and crying because I asked her not to share photos of me on her facebook page. Up until 2007 I had a dad & a mom, since 2007 I have had a dad & a facebook user
 
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One thing I rarely see brought up was how egalitarian the internet used to be, despite the edgy reputation. On forums, practically everyone has an equal voice. There's no upvote counts determining how high up on the thread your post will be. There's no follower counts determining how many people will even see what you post. When you say something in a forum thread, everyone has a chance to see it. Granted, people will side with popular users over unpopular ones, and power-tripping mods have always existed, but you're on more level ground than on social media.

Also, content used to be grouped more by topic than by user. You'd join sites related to your favorite games/anime/hobbies/etc and that's mostly what you'd see people discussing. All the stuff you don't care about would be relegated to the site's off-topic/general board. Now you follow individual users on social media, who don't just talk about the stuff you followed them for, and as a person's following grows, they feel a bigger and bigger urge to use the platform as their soapbox and influence their followers. No doubt it's contributed to the hyper-politicization of the internet. The only mainstream place I can think of that groups stuff by topic would be >redditcostanzayeahrightsmirk and Discord, but we all know what those services are like.

Gender relations were a lot better

God yes, especially among nerds. Before the early 10s drove a wedge between the sexes, it wasn't uncommon to see an average gamer guy pair up with a typical anime fangirl. Getting into a relationship wasn't that hard as long as you had decent hygiene and personality (i.e. not obscenely repulsive or boring). Now it's like these same men and women hate each other's guts to where you now have incels, femcels, and prison-gay nerds that will settle for anyone who looks enough like the opposite sex. or maybe that's just my own experiences and I need to get off the internet
 
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InsufferableCynic

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One thing I rarely see brought up was how egalitarian the internet used to be, despite the edgy reputation. On forums, practically everyone has an equal voice. There's no upvote counts determining how high up on the thread your post will be. There's no follower counts determining how many people will even see what you post. When you say something in a forum thread, everyone has a chance to see it. Granted, people will side with popular users over unpopular ones, and power-tripping mods have always existed, but you're on more level ground than on social media.

Also, content used to be grouped more by topic than by user. You'd join sites related to your favorite games/anime/hobbies/etc and that's mostly what you'd see people discussing. All the stuff you don't care about would be relegated to the site's off-topic/general board. Now you follow individual users on social media, who don't just talk about the stuff you followed them for, and as a person's following grows, they feel a bigger and bigger urge to use the platform as their soapbox and influence their followers. No doubt it's contributed to the hyper-politicization of the internet. The only mainstream place I can think of that groups stuff by topic would be >redditcostanzayeahrightsmirk and Discord, but we all know what those services are like.
Yeah I have noticed this too. Ironically, for all the talk about "equality" nowadays, the internet is nothing but a cesspool of narcissism, power-tripping and backstabbing to get ahead. Social Media absolutely brings out the worst in people and I'm super glad it's dying.
 

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