Delivered ready-meal slop corporations are a hilarious self-parody.

[Some_porcupine]

Another Agora thread that reads like twitterx4chan, I do tire of these Joe Rogan fueled post about seed oils. Looks like the thread is already on track to start discussing cholesterol and how "its actually good for you", people who do no research and say "its impossible to know the truth", and we already have a post casting doubt on observational studies. Good stuff.

On the thread topic I'm not sure what the issue is, the people who buy Huel or the other alternatives would be ordering fast food instead, and I don't see how what amounts to blended oats, pea protein, flaxseed + supplements could be worse than a McDonalds burger+fries. In fact it would be much more healthy, not to mention more convenient for those who truly could not care about what food tastes like.

Really the alternative cooking photos show off the cold reality that despite all the lip flapping, I highly doubt anything being made by the rest of you is much better than a frozen meal - beyond a marginally lower presence of sodium, less preservatives, and a better taste. Pictures of refined carbs, fatty meat, alcohol, mayonnaise, cheese, etc. I can only imagine based on the history of this thread and the "safe diet" thread that someone will come to tell me how saturated fat is actually good for us, and that actually unhealthy habits are ok so long as you don't buy something with a boogieman logo on it. Good stuff.

1/ why to state the obvious, it will anyway
2/ it isnt possible to know with paid scientists, back to 1/
3/ everything is poison/cure, depends on amount; food pyramid was mostly upside down, back to 2/
4/ we are not 4chan to suport fat acceptance...

 

[Knows He Knows Not]

Seems like you're having a hard time there bud.
Cholesterol is essential for the production of hormones in the body that's true.
Whether people start arguing that very low density lipo-proteins are healthy or not is irrelevant.
You seem, in your bad attitude to be straw manning future responses.

If you're too cool for the internet, then get off it, touch grass, have a cry about how people who haven't taken stats courses aren't as god-like as you.

Cholesterol is good for the body and the signaling that it is bad has been demonstrably worse to the uneducated masses than saying otherwise.

But as I'm sure you've seen this all before, please post sources backing up exactly why Cholesterol is bad.
Why you're blasé attitude to healthy discussions (no pun intended) is needed, and why for someone who seems so above it all, you still entered this thread, and shat it up, like a bitch.

And sodium is essential for you to even survive at all, however people currently average 3x the RDI which is already set too high. What point do you have besides 8 sentences of whining?

 

[Don Thuselah]

And sodium is essential for you to even survive at all, however people current average 3x the RDI which is already set too high. What point do you have besides 8 sentences of whining?

[/QUOTE

My point is simple, why did you enter a thread, full of things you don't like, just to shit it up?
You strike me as the type of guy who decided to become a stoic after getting stood up for a date.
Someone who thinks their barely controlled rage is better suppressed with a "feeling of detachment"

This in turn has given you a false sense of superiority which you bandied about in this thread.

You're not an enlightened individual, you're not a wanted individual.

You're a sullen piece of shit who truly, in their heart of hearts wants to be recognized as someone of value, to be cared about in a meaningful way.

But you push people away, acting with an air of superiority, like this is beneath you.

 

[Knows He Knows Not]

My point is simple, why did you enter a thread, full of things you don't like, just to shit it up?
You strike me as the type of guy who decided to become a stoic after getting stood up for a date.
Someone who thinks their barely controlled rage is better suppressed with a "feeling of detachment"

This in turn has given you a false sense of superiority which you bandied about in this thread.

You're not an enlightened individual, you're not a wanted individual.

You're a sullen piece of shit who truly, in their heart of hearts wants to be recognized as someone of value, to be cared about in a meaningful way.

But you push people away, acting with an air of superiority, like this is beneath you.

I entered a thread related to a topic I have more knowledge about than most, and stated my opinions on the takes so far. You could do with cutting back on the typing, another 7 wasteful sentences of whining.

 

[Don Thuselah]

I entered a thread related to a topic I have more knowledge about than most, and stated my opinions on the takes so far. You could do with cutting back on the typing, another 7 wasteful sentences of whining.

The internet is beautiful because it allows people of all walks of life to justify their beliefs without needing to post their qualifications.
You have posted neither qualifications nor anything meaningful to this thread.
So your presence is a net negative.
If you have meaningful discussion to add do so.

 

[big_ping07]

.... ok so anyway

i use a meal delivery service! i use it as a supplement rather than a total replacement. i still go to the store and cook meals on da regular.
to clarify, i don't order the soyglop protein shakes. i order frozen meals for the times when i'm exhausted or busy running around. though there's a greater issue here about how haywire society has progressed to a point where the value of convenience has skyrocketed, but, since i also value convenience that much, i have appreciated the inclusion of this service in my life. people have their reasons for subscribing to services like these, and i think no progress will be made to fight the progression of convenience if those reasons aren't acknowledged.

and may i add that i simply hate cooking. i truly truly despise it. i'm not a bad cook, but throwing together something as simple as minced meat + veg over rice makes me want to cry and scream and throw shit everywhere. i would rather do everyone's laundry and hand-wash everyone's dishes instead of cooking a packet of instant ramen.
having a meal ready for me when i'm all tuckered out is so nice.
as other's have stated, it's TV dinner delivery. and i'm cool with that because they're yum and help me deal with the daily stresses. like a frozen pizza! or girl dinner (a cluster of grapes, 10 crackers, and 2 slices of deli meat).
meal delivery is clearly a service people want, but what i do find wrong is that there's no longer an emphasis on how "it takes a village" and instead people are finding themselves in the position of both the money and home maker while having to balance their social, physical, and mental health. all during a freaky, fast-paced era!

the issue i have with most meal delivery services is the advertising. i can't state it better than the op.
their advertising is slimy which i find to be common with most services. they don't need to go through all that sustainable/nutritious bullshit because who tf orders from huel AND cares about either of those things? it's almost always about convenience. i doubt that the majority of customers read a single blurb on the huel website before making a purchase.
i know a few guys who use huel, and they've all gotten slightly offended when i called it "baby-boy formula." one rebuked and said my meal delivery service is "adultz cuisine" which is true, but at least i get green beans and chicken over couscous instead of... brown viscous liquid.

 

[Knows He Knows Not]

The internet is beautiful because it allows people of all walks of life to justify their beliefs without needing to post their qualifications.
You have posted neither qualifications nor anything meaningful to this thread.
So your presence is a net negative.
If you have meaningful discussion to add do so.

I don't consider seed oil fear mongering, unfounded science denial, and self-dissonant solipsism to be very meaningful. If you have a problem with any of the beliefs I've stated, you are free to challenge them, or continue whining, whatever suits you.

 

[BlackControlBoxer]

Another Agora thread that reads like twitterx4chan, I do tire of these Joe Rogan fueled post about seed oils. Looks like the thread is already on track to start discussing cholesterol and how "its actually good for you", people who do no research and say "its impossible to know the truth", and we already have a post casting doubt on observational studies. Good stuff.

On the thread topic I'm not sure what the issue is, the people who buy Huel or the other alternatives would be ordering fast food instead, and I don't see how what amounts to blended oats, pea protein, flaxseed + supplements could be worse than a McDonalds burger+fries. In fact it would be much more healthy, not to mention more convenient for those who truly could not care about what food tastes like.

Really the alternative cooking photos show off the cold reality that despite all the lip flapping, I highly doubt anything being made by the rest of you is much better than a frozen meal - beyond a marginally lower presence of sodium, less preservatives, and a better taste. Pictures of refined carbs, fatty meat, alcohol, mayonnaise, cheese, etc. I can only imagine based on the history of this thread and the "safe diet" thread that someone will come to tell me how saturated fat is actually good for us, and that actually unhealthy habits are ok so long as you don't buy something with a boogieman logo on it.

you are so him, youre that nigga the goat

 

[cloudfair]

Jesus christ nutrition is the most researched thing in the world this discussion is pointless. We know what is healthy and what is not its not that complicated and there is no "belief" involved in health. There is this thing called a "nutrition label" on the back of every food which tells you what is in it, you just need to eat the right amounts of different things. Also, different people have slightly different dietary needs. You do not know what these are unless you get blood work done (which everyone should). Premade meals are totally fine if you can afford them, THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS THE NUTRITION LABEL. Do not eat anything that comes out of a colorful box and you dont need to worry about "seed oils" or whatever the fuck people talk about these days.

And shut up about cholesterol being bad thats so braindead. I eat 7 eggs a day and an entire pound of 93/7 ground beef 5/7 days of the week and a pound of turkey the other 2 days and im jacked to the tits. Eat your veggies, fruits, carbs, and avoid all added sugars at all costs. And GET SUN AND EXERCISE. This is literally me posting on agora road macintosh cafe:

 

[Don Thuselah]

I don't consider seed oil fear mongering, unfounded science denial, and self-dissonant solipsism to be very meaningful. If you have a problem with any of the beliefs I've stated, you are free to challenge them, or continue whining, whatever suits you.

Cool, it's nice to see someone who is comfort

I don't consider seed oil fear mongering, unfounded science denial, and self-dissonant solipsism to be very meaningful. If you have a problem with any of the beliefs I've stated, you are free to challenge them, or continue whining, whatever suits you.

Cool, so let's analyze this study

Integration of lipidomics with targeted, single cell, and spatial transcriptomics defines an unresolved pro-inflammatory state in colon cancer | Gut

gut.bmj.com

I opted against APA or MLA as this is informal.
As you can see there is a definite link between colon cancer and seed oil consumption.
Here is one (not in the last 5 years mind) that shows apoptotic activity in cancerous cells of the colon, a different organ (being that its rats)than the one in the first study, but a notably better outcome. While we can postulate whether or not these studies show what they show. It helps to remember that organizations whom would benefit from endowments or sponsored deals through advertising have a vested interest in debunking this information such as the Kraft family with which Yale has a nice endowment from, and also coincidentally published an article refuting the data of the first study.

You're entitled to your thoughts, I wish you would just think harder, be open to growth, and not shit up threads with this sanctimonious grandstanding.

You catch more ears with honeyed words, not piss and vinegar.

 

[Don Thuselah]

Cool, it's nice to see someone who is comfort

Cool, so let's analyze this study

Integration of lipidomics with targeted, single cell, and spatial transcriptomics defines an unresolved pro-inflammatory state in colon cancer | Gut

gut.bmj.com

I opted against APA or MLA as this is informal.
As you can see there is a definite link between colon cancer and seed oil consumption.
Here is one (not in the last 5 years mind) that shows apoptotic activity in cancerous cells of the colon, a different organ (being that its rats)than the one in the first study, but a notably better outcome. While we can postulate whether or not these studies show what they show. It helps to remember that organizations whom would benefit from endowments or sponsored deals through advertising have a vested interest in debunking this information such as the Kraft family with which Yale has a nice endowment from, and also coincidentally published an article refuting the data of the first study.

You're entitled to your thoughts, I wish you would just think harder, be open to growth, and not shit up threads with this sanctimonious grandstanding.

You catch more ears with honeyed words, not piss and vinegar.

Forgot the second study lol
Khil, Jinmo, and Daniel D Gallaher. "Beef tallow increases apoptosis and decreases aberrant crypt foci formation relative to soybean oil in rat colon." Nutrition and cancer vol. 50,1 (2004): 55-62. doi:10.1207/s15327914nc5001_8

 

[Orlando Smooth]

Thank you for sharing your experience with such a service, that kind of insight is valuable for this thread. With that said...

and may i add that i simply hate cooking. i truly truly despise it. i'm not a bad cook, but throwing together something as simple as minced meat + veg over rice makes me want to cry and scream and throw shit everywhere.

...why? I don't think there's anything in life I hate to the extent that you're describing here, let alone something that is vital to existence itself (preparation and eating of food). I've already mentioned in this thread that I enjoy cooking as a hobby, but I'm not naive enough to believe every can or will enjoy it the way I do. Yet, it's challenging for me to understand how you could hate it so much that it makes you want to "cry and scream and throw shit."

 

[omnidisplay]

Another Agora thread that reads like twitterx4chan, I do tire of these Joe Rogan fueled posts about seed oils. Looks like the thread is already on track to start discussing cholesterol and how "its actually good for you", people who do no research and say "its impossible to know the truth", and we already have a post casting doubt on observational studies. Good stuff.

On the thread topic I'm not sure what the issue is, the people who buy Huel or the other alternatives would be ordering fast food instead, and I don't see how what amounts to blended oats, pea protein, flaxseed + supplements could be worse than a McDonalds burger+fries. In fact it would be much more healthy, not to mention more convenient for those who truly could not care about what food tastes like.

Really the alternative cooking photos show off the cold reality that despite all the lip flapping, I highly doubt anything being made by the rest of you is much better than a frozen meal - beyond a marginally lower presence of sodium, less preservatives, and a better taste. Pictures of refined carbs, fatty meat, alcohol, mayonnaise, cheese, etc. I can only imagine based on the history of this thread and the "safe diet" thread that someone will come to tell me how saturated fat is actually good for us, and that actually unhealthy habits are ok so long as you don't buy something with a boogieman logo on it.

Shit bait. Drink some chocolate-flavoured soylent to clear your head and try again later.

Premade meals are totally fine if you can afford them, THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS THE NUTRITION LABEL. Do not eat anything that comes out of a colorful box and you dont need to worry about "seed oils" or whatever the fuck people talk about these days.

And shut up about cholesterol being bad thats so braindead. I eat 7 eggs a day and an entire pound of 93/7 ground beef 5/7 days of the week and a pound of turkey the other 2 days and im jacked to the tits. Eat your veggies, fruits, carbs, and avoid all added sugars at all costs. And GET SUN AND EXERCISE. This is literally me posting on agora road macintosh cafe:

I'd say it's less about meaningless statistics of sodium, cholesterol, sugar, etc and more whether you're putting shit that has been processed-to-hell-and-back into your body. I don't care if the mysteryslop has (or doesn't have) some standard amount of nutrient-label shit that's in most foods, it's still mysteryslop and should be treated with a degree of scepticism. Namely preservatives and shit are my concern to be honest. I don't want my meals to fucking embalm me from the inside out.

Of course there's also biproducts, shit that isn't on the label, because they're not technically ingredients.

 

[Knows He Knows Not]

Cool, it's nice to see someone who is comfort

Cool, so let's analyze this study

Integration of lipidomics with targeted, single cell, and spatial transcriptomics defines an unresolved pro-inflammatory state in colon cancer | Gut

gut.bmj.com

I opted against APA or MLA as this is informal.
As you can see there is a definite link between colon cancer and seed oil consumption.
Here is one (not in the last 5 years mind) that shows apoptotic activity in cancerous cells of the colon, a different organ (being that its rats)than the one in the first study, but a notably better outcome. While we can postulate whether or not these studies show what they show. It helps to remember that organizations whom would benefit from endowments or sponsored deals through advertising have a vested interest in debunking this information such as the Kraft family with which Yale has a nice endowment from, and also coincidentally published an article refuting the data of the first study.

You're entitled to your thoughts, I wish you would just think harder, be open to growth, and not shit up threads with this sanctimonious grandstanding.

You catch more ears with honeyed words, not piss and vinegar.

I don't see how a study on tearing out already formed CRC tumors and changing their lipid profile has anything to do with the effects of a regular human consuming seed oils that are going through the entire digestive system. This is a mechanistic study that holds very little weight in terms of what to base your opinions on, they are something you can use to perhaps clarify or target out the effect or reason for why results were shown in the actual real studies on humans. This meta analysis for instance suggests a lower risk for colon cancer with LA consumption https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916523005737.

And really we need to ask: what are seed oils replacing? For most, its butter or lard; I'll ask you rather than show, because I want to see if you can act in good faith - do you believe there to be a nigh undeniable link between saturated animal fats and colon cancer?

 

[Some_porcupine]

 

[Don Thuselah]

I don't see how a study on tearing out already formed CRC tumors and changing their lipid profile has anything to do with the effects of a regular human consuming seed oils that are going through the entire digestive system. This is a mechanistic study that holds very little weight in terms of what to base your opinions on, they are something you can use to perhaps clarify or target out the effect or reason for why results were shown in the actual real studies on humans. This meta analysis for instance suggests a lower risk for colon cancer with LA consumption https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916523005737.

And really we need to ask: what are seed oils replacing? For most, its butter or lard; I'll ask you rather than show, because I want to see if you can act in good faith - do you believe there to be a nigh undeniable link between saturated animal fats and colon cancer?

I personally do not believe that there is a nigh undeniable link between animal fats (saturated) and colon cancer.

Meta-analysis of animal fat or animal protein intake and colorectal cancer

In the recent World Cancer Research Fund/American Institute for Cancer Research report of diet and cancer, it was concluded that there is limited but ...

www.sciencedirect.com

Associations of Red Meat, Fat, and Protein Intake With Distal Colorectal Cancer Risk - PMC

Studies have suggested that red and processed meat consumption elevate the risk of colon cancer; however, the relationship between red meat, as well as fat and protein, and distal colorectal cancer (CRC) specifically is not clear. We determined the ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Both of these seem to also posit the same thing.
The issue with colorectal cancer is mainly in food preparation/processing. Something that also ties into the issue of the thread. Hyper processed foods are intrinsically tied to meat and likewise the oils within the processing.
The advent of vegetable oil has been disastrous. But the approach to mitigation must be holistic, meat and saturated fats aren't anymore dangerous than MOST seed oils outside of those cooked above their smoke point.

 

[Don Thuselah]

I don't see how a study on tearing out already formed CRC tumors and changing their lipid profile has anything to do with the effects of a regular human consuming seed oils that are going through the entire digestive system. This is a mechanistic study that holds very little weight in terms of what to base your opinions on, they are something you can use to perhaps clarify or target out the effect or reason for why results were shown in the actual real studies on humans. This meta analysis for instance suggests a lower risk for colon cancer with LA consumption https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916523005737.

And really we need to ask: what are seed oils replacing? For most, its butter or lard; I'll ask you rather than show, because I want to see if you can act in good faith - do you believe there to be a nigh undeniable link between saturated animal fats and colon cancer?

I'm also not unwilling to see information that will change my mind.
Which is why I came in so hot with your blatant original shitpost.

This place, as I see it, is a means to discuss outside of echo chambers with people of differing opinions on everything but vapor wave.

To come in so obstinate that everyone is basing their opinions on websites I don't even go on is so astoundingly myopic that I truly didn't believe you were capable of acting in good faith.
I appreciate you responding, and effortposting. It's worth it if only for posterity, so we can circle back as more information inevitably comes out.

 

[ElSpankio]

I wonder how healthy it is to eat mainly MREs and emergency ration packs? Most army guys look pretty alright health-wise but it'd be hard to falsify that because being in a combat zone exposes you to a lot of unhealthy things.

Got reminded of Steve1989MREinfo, but coincidentally, his latest post was of a ration that looks strikingly similar (in packaging, at the very least) to the style of meal services in this thread.

One of the brownest rations he's done, if Indonesia is doing good in it's wars ever since this was introduced, maybe there's actually something to these meal replacement services.

 

[Knows He Knows Not]

I personally do not believe that there is a nigh undeniable link between animal fats (saturated) and colon cancer.

Meta-analysis of animal fat or animal protein intake and colorectal cancer

In the recent World Cancer Research Fund/American Institute for Cancer Research report of diet and cancer, it was concluded that there is limited but ...

www.sciencedirect.com

Associations of Red Meat, Fat, and Protein Intake With Distal Colorectal Cancer Risk - PMC

Studies have suggested that red and processed meat consumption elevate the risk of colon cancer; however, the relationship between red meat, as well as fat and protein, and distal colorectal cancer (CRC) specifically is not clear. We determined the ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Both of these seem to also posit the same thing.
The issue with colorectal cancer is mainly in food preparation/processing. Something that also ties into the issue of the thread. Hyper processed foods are intrinsically tied to meat and likewise the oils within the processing.
The advent of vegetable oil has been disastrous. But the approach to mitigation must be holistic, meat and saturated fats aren't anymore dangerous than MOST seed oils outside of those cooked above their smoke point.

Then you are a fool, however it will take a lot of effort to convince you of that, and I will ask that you read the whole post before outlining your response. Firstly the most important question to ask in nutrition is when one dietary source is changed, what is its replacement? When people aren't eating saturated fat, what are they replacing it with? Eating is a zero sum game, eating one thing means we are not eating another. I'm sure you can already imagine, but usually the replacement for animal fat is other unhealthy foods such as refined sugar, which is linked directly to colon cancer - so too with alcohol. If this is the case, it is no doubt that looking at studies that only compare saturated fat or animal fat intake in comparison to less intake might bring up non-conclusive results. One of the studies listed in this meta analysis was on entirely smokers, a group who I think we can both agree are very unlikely to have any healthy habits at all, and almost certainly would exchange one bad (SFA) for another (refined sugar, liquor, etc). When studies say "no significance was found", what they really mean is that whatever it is they are controlling for is just as bad as the regular standard western diet.

One of the ways around this is to gather a population of relatively health conscious people who won't simply exchange meat for other bad choices and who also share similar lifestyles, which the best source for this are usually the medical practitioners themselves. The Nurses Study https://sci-hub.se/10.1056/NEJM199012133232404 is one of the most well regarded studies in the medical field for good reason, not only for the reasons above, but also that medical practitioners both understand the value of what they are contributing to (caring more about their accuracy) and the knowledge of what information needs to be told/remembered for the questionnaire. It just so happens that study has the exact information we wish to learn about. You may browse the results of the link, but the meta analysis you posted (which I assume you read) has also mentioned its results. Meta-analysis are great and at the top of hierarchy for a reason, but we must also remember than quantity of data does not trump quality of data, especially when observational studies are being used, there are many variables to take into account.

Now, I won't just be ending this post on the note of simply attacking the meta analysis, but also I will point out a piece of evidence in my favor. For we should not just look at who is developing colon cancer, but who ISN'T. Comparing African Americans to Native Africans and the risk factor is a magnitude of 50x, I don't think I need to tell you that native Africans are not gorging themselves on meat, in fact they are not gorging themselves on much of anything besides refined grains. Read through this paper https://sci-hub.se/10.1111/j.1572-0241.1999.01089.x, it will touch on most of your counter arguments. However, if you are sharp you will say that native Africans also have a lower consumption of seed oils, very true, however I would ask you why the Chinese also have much lower rates of colon cancer than the western world while being very well known for sesame and soy oil. Why do Mediterranean countries such as Italy, Greece, and Spain continue to have such high rates of CRC despite preferring olive oil over any other vegetable oil?

I look forward to your response.

 

[cloudfair]

I'd say it's less about meaningless statistics of sodium, cholesterol, sugar, etc and more whether you're putting shit that has been processed-to-hell-and-back into your body. I don't care if the mysteryslop has (or doesn't have) some standard amount of nutrient-label shit that's in most foods, it's still mysteryslop and should be treated with a degree of scepticism. Namely preservatives and shit are my concern to be honest. I don't want my meals to fucking embalm me from the inside out.

Of course there's also biproducts, shit that isn't on the label, because they're not technically ingredients.

Those statistics are literally the most important thing in all foods you eat, if you think they are meaningless you probably do not know anything about nutrition whatsoever. You are right though that frozen meals are ultra processed (what does that even mean in terms of health), but this is often reflected in the nutrition label and high amounts of sodium. Also, when i say frozen meals I mean like healthy beef and broccoli meals, not like pizza rolls or some shit.

But, that is why buying whole foods such as meat, rice, oats, yogurt, veggies, and fruit etc, is how you eat healthy. Its also much cheaper. Sure, the cows might be pumped with bullshit but that is just the world we live in lol, you would need to slaughter your own animals or pay exorbitant prices to avoid that. But the gap on the healthy scale between eating these types of foods vs fast food or other anything else that spends more money on advertising than their product is astronomical.