• I added an agora current events board to contain discussions of political and current events to that category. This was due to a increase support for a separate board for political talk.

DLE And How To Approximate Reality

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I'm not sure I've ever written about DLE before, but I figured this would be a good place to write up a basic introductory guide- what DLE is, how I discovered it, and why I now use it as a guiding philosophy in all fields.

DLE stands for "Direct Life Experience," and I present it as an alternative to the Protestant Work Ethic, or PWE. The PWE, as I see it, like all things to do with Protestantism or Catholicism, is an outdated, tautological idea which has no value in the modern era. Much like the Divine Right Of Kings, which states that nobody can question the legitimacy of a king because the king's power is bestowed by God, the Protestant Work Ethic encourages excessive labor because it promises a fulfilling afterlife in Heaven. Of course, as with all appendages of religion, Heaven is a comforting lie used by those in power to maintain power- a carrot on a stick, in effect. One should not work hard with the expectation of an infinite reward, because anyone who expects infinite reward is only going to be disappointed when the infinite reward fails to materialize.

The best way to live, I think, is to confront life on its own terms. DLE is closely related to hedonism, and I apply both in equal measure (My essay on hedonism and its benefits can be found here), although DLE can be experienced without hedonism. If hedonism entails the practice of maximizing personal joy at the expense of the so-called "suffering of life," that is, to reject the idea that all life or even most life need be suffering (which is rooted in the explicitly Christian notion that life is a transitory state, rather than the only state)- DLE is the opposite side of the coin- the bitter dessert of contemplation and self-actualization after the main course of reckless abandon. Both states of being compliment each other reasonably, and I would recommend, if you are a hedonist, to at least give DLE a try, because it can provide a useful contrast and a new perspective.

One problem I've noticed with my generation in particular (Gen Z) is that we're inherently materialistic. We are, perhaps, more materialistic than any generation previously. We can't help this- these systems of materialism were passed down to us by the previous generations, of course- but we experience a lot more of it. We've convinced ourselves that college is necessary, that if one doesn't go to college one will be unable to function as a productive member of society. All my friends want to be lawyers or scientists, they talk about big houses and big cars and steak dinners. Everyone is in the pursuit of material excess while simultaneously denying their hunger for material excess and feigning moral superiority. This obsession with the acquisition of material results in a lack of identity and individuality- nobody my age even seems to want such a thing. An identity is a luxury which they assume will materialize spontaneously at some time in their thirties. They don't consider that, at a certain point in time, identities were usually present at 17 or earlier. This isn't an issue in older generations, particularly the pre-Millennial ones. I heard a 50-year old friend of mine complain about people being "slaves to their jobs," leaving events at 10 P.M. to wake up the next day without considering that staying up late might provide more fulfillment than waking up early the next day, and I had to explain to him that's simply how my generation views things, that we outright deny autonomy.

The fixation with college, in particular, is detrimental, because college only funnels people towards occupations which benefit the system. College, in most cases, does not facilitate the formation of an identity, it only creates a bland attitude and funnels one into an unfulfilling position in some tech firm or law firm. These jobs pay extremely well, because the economy incentivizes them- but money is worthless if the mind goes unnourished. If one works in a tech firm and only thinks in terms of IT support, for multiple days a week, one isn't going to have fun on their luxury yacht. This is the trade- one can have an excessive, materialistic life if one is willing to lose their vital humanity. And then one commits suicide, because one becomes apathetic toward the value of life. Suicide is also, of course, motivated by the fallacious belief in a superior afterlife. I see this pattern play out, again and again. It is becoming repetitive at this point, to watch as my peers- who I wouldn't even necessarily consider peers, because they seem to operate under the PWE without recognizing as much- follow the same path of self-destruction.

The lack of a coherent identity is especially prevalent in Denver. Denver has an unstable population, meaning that it is full of people who leave, arrive, and stay for five-year periods on average. There is in fact a stable population, but these people never go outside because they hate what their city has become. They live indoors like the sequestered undead because Denver engenders a type of endemic neuroticism. It's written into Denver's structural fabric and cannot be separated. Denver's key problem is that it favors its unstable population and neglects or outright ignores its stable population. Coloradans are not viewed as a legitimate American demographic in the same way Yankees and Southerners and Midwesterners are. This invalidation of identity, this denial of lived experience, means that only people who do not identify as Coloradans or Denverites get to enjoy life in Denver. Denver is frequented by the jet-setting hoi polloi who regard it as merely another destination and don't stay long enough to see the havoc their careless behavior wreaks on the people who have resided here for multiple generations.

I was at a civic meeting the other day and heard someone from out of town remark that Denver is a "developing city," and I had to wonder what that even means- Denver is and has always been a developing city, for 150+ years of cyclical history it's been a developing city. It develops but goes nowhere. Denver wasn't created yesterday, Denver is caught in a repetitive loop where we fail, over and over, to learn from our mistakes because by the time the next cycle comes around and it's time to fix our mistakes, the entire population has been supplanted. There is no long-term investment here, no century-long consideration, we don't plant time capsules because we know any such project wouldn't last. We lack both foresight and hindsight. I've spoken to city planners who are from Texas and attempt to design streets in a manner they find aesthetically pleasing in Houston or wherever, and I want to scream at them that it won't work, that turning Denver into a gaudy theme park attraction at the expense of actual practical use is of no benefit to anyone, and that to be an effective civic planner you would need to be from Denver, and understand vital facets of Denver geography. The expensive high-rise apartment complexes of today will only decay and become the exact same torn-down slums in 40 years, because everyone who built them will have left. I spoke with this city planner, after they made a snide remark about how white Denver is (mind you, they're white and from a less diverse area) about how the diversification of the city will be a step-by-step, incremental process, but that we are gradually seeing an influx of Hispanic and African-American citizens, and how I knew this because I live next to Colfax, and Colfax serves as a unique window into Denver's shifting demographics, given that it includes virtually all groups. They were dismissive of this, tsk-tsking in a kind of condescending academic superiority, as if they knew my own city better than I did, and scoffed at my anecdotal methods.

It may be true, of course, that Denver might come off as homogenous to someone who moves here from a comparatively diverse area. I don't see, though, how someone who ostensibly wants to promote diversity will simultaneously discredit the firsthand lived experience of someone who interacts with more groups and places than they ever will. They, being collegiate, being a "have" in a system of haves and have-nots, drive around enclosed in their car, entirely sheltered from the outside world, unaware of the plight of the downtrodden. I, on the other hand, take the bus everywhere, so I've seen the groups at the Downing intersection who spread messages of Rastafarianism and have Nation of Islam rings and are actually concerned with the state of their city. I interact with Denver's African-American population on a daily basis, I hear them talk about how they dislike the influx of rich coastal tourists, and as such I know more. I learn more about people and their sociological interactions riding up and down the Colfax bus than someone will ever learn in a social studies course at Harvard.

People who have to confront reality on a daily basis- people who ride the bus because they don't have a car, people who walk everywhere, people who work in pizzerias or convenience stores instead of hipster conglomerates or chic offices- these people become extremely grounded and level-headed, pragmatic rather than idealistic. These people provide the actual roots and fundamental building blocks of culture. If harnessed, if tapped into and portrayed, they can be given a voice with which they can effect real change. But so long as they remain powerless in the face of seemingly insurmountable obstacles- rising rent prices, bad weather, a lack of water and food- Denver will continue along its chaotic descent.

What's especially absurd is that people who are clearly in a position of privilege fail to notice their privilege- to "check" it, as the saying goes. Relatively, I'm privileged compared to the people who sleep in doorways on Colfax- however, compared to most of my peers (Peers, again, being questionable)- I'm at an extreme disadvantage. I'm autistic, which means that I can't operate in group settings, meaning that I'm ineligible for 99% of jobs which would entail me operating in a hierarchy at someone else's behest. I'm a hyperindividualistic egomaniac and somewhat misanthropic- neither of these traits are economically or societally incentivized- and I'm asexual, meaning that I cannot rely on someone else for economic or mental stability. I therefore find it bizarre when a college educated scientist, for instance- maybe the most privileged demographic it's possible to be in these days unless you're a millionaire- accuses me of being privileged because I live in Denver but don't have to pay rent. I don't pay rent because I'm a fifth-generation Coloradan and my existence here is essentially a fact of life, I wouldn't feel comfortable moving anywhere else because I've been here so long that I wouldn't be able to function anywhere else. I know there are other Denverites who feel this brooding isolation- but, again, they all remain indoors. The scientists don't realize how privileged they are- to be able to move cities every ten years, to adapt and grow and learn, to function in a collegiate and professional capacity. My generation is full of people who complain about the effects of late-stage capitalism while only enabling and facilitating late-stage capitalism, they seem to assume I'm one of them even though I've lived most of my life in abject poverty, and they complain about how the system works them to death without considering that ultimately, being completely disenfranchised by the system is much worse than being able to function within it.

Other terminology is equally alien to me- the concept of the "third space," for instance. I was talking to someone and they remarked about how they don't see the "third space," then went on to explain to me in lurid detail the exact same concept I'd heard of in countless listicles and pretentious diatribes online- that the current generation lacks a "third space" besides home and work. I can't relate to this conundrum because, as a freelance artist- the only occupation I feel comfortable pursuing- my home is my office- and I experience third spaces all the time which aren't either. I'm on the bus a ton, I walk all over aimlessly. I go to overstimulating concerts because I need sensory input, I'm bored out of my head from a general lack of adversity. I would go as far as to posit that 75% of my existence is spent in third spaces, and in fact one could make a decent argument that Denver, in its entirety, is a third space- a transitory, decaying realm, a city that time forgot, an environment nobody is willing to acknowledge because they're either in their car or locked behind closed doors or on their phone, or attending college, which is the ultimate echo chamber. It is impossible to live here for prolonged periods of time without feeling aimless, because even the most highly valued jobs and positions result in nothing of any real consequence taking place. There are no material gains to pursue. Mentally ill people my age want desperately to be in a gang without realizing that gangs are a byproduct of societal adversity, and their college education means that they won't be forming the next NWA anytime soon.

To tie this all back to the PWE, I believe that the Protestant Work Ethic is mostly to blame, and that more people would do well to consider whether their behavior is influenced by it. Do you work long shifts in the pursuit of a retirement fund? Well, that retirement might be nice, but by then you'll have shingles and arthritis and you won't be able to have fun anymore. You'll look back on your 20s and think, "wow, my job sucked ass and I could have been having cheaper forms of fun and worked less." Do you want a big yacht? Well, bad news- the Egyptian afterlife is just as fake as the Christian one, so even if you mummify and embalm yourself and bury yourself alive in a massive tomb with all your riches and worldly possessions, they won't be following you to the afterlife because there is no such thing. Your yacht might be fun, but you'll only be able to enjoy it for maybe a decade before you cease to exist, so just buy a little rowboat when you're 20 and you can enjoy it for a much longer time.

DLE is, as the name implies, a form of direct experience with life, a middle finger to college and to professionalism and to any notion of a superior being. It means walking whenever possible, going out in blizzards and rainstorms and all kinds of inclement weather, it means taking the roads less traveled, soaking in as much life as possible even when doing so doesn't make any practical sense. It means learning to enjoy the mundane or even the negative- to view all events in life as interesting and worthwhile, and to only work enough as is absolutely necessary to maintain basic health. In a world of increasing escapism, I find it very interesting to watch as the physical world is increasingly ignored or neglected, and left to rot- which, again, manifests in a particularly unique way here. I believe this may be an increasing trend, as time goes on- "third spaces" will indeed become less and less common, until the only ones available are sewers and alleyways. The class divide between the college-educated and non-college educated public will increase until the strain leads to some kind of breaking point. The megalopolises in the skies will serve as inaccessible glitter atop a cake of smog and waste, and neither group will be able to relate to the other.

DLE is good because it creates extremely smart, resilient individuals. The Hobo culture of the 1920s and 1930s, for instance, produced maybe the greatest specimens of humanity who ever lived. They had culture and folklore and methods of communication which were entirely unique, and these forms were shaped by hardship and adversity. They lived according to DLE- blatantly breaking or disregarding societal norms in favor of stoic individualism, working only when necessary to sustain themselves, and contacting the real world in its broken detail every single day. They are, I would say, perhaps the best example of DLE in practice.

One benefit of DLE is that it makes one virtually immune to cult indoctrination. The common stereotype of people in poverty falling victim to the seductive promises of cult leaders is mostly false. Many cults- the vast majority, in fact- operate on elitist principles. NXIVM was composed mostly of Hollywood elites, many of the Manson Family were Beverly Hills trust fund kids. Perhaps the best example of academic elitism in the cult mentality would be Dr. Frederick Lenz, who encouraged members of his fanatical sect to become high-level computer programmers, and who developed a mystic symbiosis between computer language and spirituality. Much of the new-age bullshit prosperity gospel type notions of the 90s which still plague today's generation can, in one way or another, be traced back to him.

Now ask yourself: who would be more susceptible to the guiles of a manipulative cult leader? Poindexter Pete, who works in IT and knows nothing except how to boot up a hard drive, and craves danger because his life is boring and mundane, or Hobo Joe, who eats nails for breakfast and lives with the sack slung over his shoulder, and lives only for himself every waking hour? If, say, Keith Raniere or one of these smooth-talking bozos were to go up to Pete and Joe, and ask both of them to join his sunshine harem, who do you think would hop on board and who do you think would issue Keith a prompt knuckle sandwich with all the trimmings? You can probably see where I'm going with this- anyone who incorporates inherently Protestant values into their life, in any capacity, is more likely to end up falling for other bullshit. And anyone who negates their own autonomy in favor of the will of someone- anyone- in power- is destined for a life of suboptimal boredom as a pawn with no purpose.
 

Lamp Fool

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Denver is frequented by the jet-setting hoi polloi who regard it as merely another destination and don't stay long enough to see the havoc their careless behavior wreaks on the people who have resided here for multiple generations.
This appears to be a problem everywhere. I have seen it myself in DC and Maryland, and also in the rural West. Everyone is getting robbed of their friends, allies, wards, and even enemies as they are all scattered to the four winds by the economic machine. It seems people are being pushed in two extreme directions because of this, one being the post-Protestant ligmamale grindset type who will do anything for success, and the lie-flat stoic minimalist type who doesn't want to bother. The deficiency in both of these is that they both readily accept suffering, but they are not suffering for anyone or for anything greater than themselves, rendering it all meaningless. The only way to have an identity or "individuality" is surprisingly to in some sense sacrifice yourself to be a part of other people's lives.

a carrot on a stick, in effect. One should not work hard with the expectation of an infinite reward, because anyone who expects infinite reward is only going to be disappointed when the infinite reward fails to materialize.
What's funny is this is not even Protestant position. Neither Calvin nor Luther would have agreed with the idea that you could earn salvation. What Max Weber saw when he invented the term PWE was that prots liked to prove to themselves that they are good by being industrious, but in so doing accidentally jumpstarted an exploitative, greed-filled economy we can't escape. It would seem that actual Protestants are in league with you in opposing the Protestant Work Ethic you describe.
 

幽邃森林

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I've opened this thread to learn about DLE but witnessed an entire site pile on a recent college grad who believes they've had an epiphany on how society works.

I still don't know anything about DLE but I think I found your thesis being something along the lines of "Americans live in a materialistic culture caused by the protestant work ethic".

Do you talk to people? Are they working hard because of this expectation of a reward from some Protestant work ethic or is it because they feel they have no other choice?

While there's been countless explanations about the materialism and overwork in the USA, I'll add my thoughts and contribute:

If a person's objective is to maximize enjoyment in life then the only outlet for most Americans to achieve this is through consumption of goods and media.

The American work culture does not afford the leisure time for the typical person to pursue enjoyment by finding new hobbies, creating communities, travel, or making connections. They can't just trade their compensation for more leisure time because lower paying jobs are almost always synonymous with longer hours. Most people would rather be a corporate drone than a wagecuck.

I've lived in a few countries and the common trend is the weaker the worker's rights then the stronger the materialistic attitudes.

Now for the people working hard for that retirement fund, what are their spending habits? Are they saving up to afford a new BMW when they're 60? How about this - they are trying to use their accumulated money to "buy back" time for them to achieve non-materialistic pursuits. I usually meet people who fall in the latter category, which would mean they subscribe to something similar to the PWE to ESCAPE this cycle of materialism.
 

nsequeira119

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I've opened this thread to learn about DLE but witnessed an entire site pile on a recent college grad who believes they've had an epiphany on how society works.

I still don't know anything about DLE but I think I found your thesis being something along the lines of "Americans live in a materialistic culture caused by the protestant work ethic".

Do you talk to people? Are they working hard because of this expectation of a reward from some Protestant work ethic or is it because they feel they have no other choice?

While there's been countless explanations about the materialism and overwork in the USA, I'll add my thoughts and contribute:

If a person's objective is to maximize enjoyment in life then the only outlet for most Americans to achieve this is through consumption of goods and media.

The American work culture does not afford the leisure time for the typical person to pursue enjoyment by finding new hobbies, creating communities, travel, or making connections. They can't just trade their compensation for more leisure time because lower paying jobs are almost always synonymous with longer hours. Most people would rather be a corporate drone than a wagecuck.

I've lived in a few countries and the common trend is the weaker the worker's rights then the stronger the materialistic attitudes.

Now for the people working hard for that retirement fund, what are their spending habits? Are they saving up to afford a new BMW when they're 60? How about this - they are trying to use their accumulated money to "buy back" time for them to achieve non-materialistic pursuits. I usually meet people who fall in the latter category, which would mean they subscribe to something similar to the PWE to ESCAPE this cycle of materialism.
I mean, for the record, I haven't been to college, and I certainly haven't graduated it. I kinda think going to college is antithetical to DLE, as it's an enclosed system which produces a very linear, homogenous sort of thought. At least from everything I've seen of it. I came up with DLE off my dome, mainly. If it sounds similar to other schools of thought in certain aspects, it probably is to a certain extent.
 
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pickleman

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I came up with DLE off my dome, mainly. If it sounds similar to other schools of thought in certain aspects, it probably is to a certain extent.
I am curious if you think you are smarter than the OG Ancient Greek/Roman philosophers? Ie: Socrates / Plato / Aristotle / Diogenes / Epicurus / Seneca / Jesus Christ / etc

If you have not been educated nor have you read philosophy how can you possibly come up with anything intelligent? How do you know your head isnt up your ass?
 

nsequeira119

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I am curious if you think you are smarter than the OG Ancient Greek/Roman philosophers? Ie: Socrates / Plato / Aristotle / Diogenes / Epicurus / Seneca / Jesus Christ / etc

If you have not been educated nor have you read philosophy how can you possibly come up with anything intelligent? How do you know your head isnt up your ass?
Well, I wouldn't necessarily say I'm smarter than Plato or Aristotle. I would say I'm definitely smarter than Jesus- most modern day people are smarter than Jesus simply by virtue of the Enlightenment having happened between his execution 2,000 years ago and the present day. I'm not sure why you would group Jesus in with all those other figures- he wasn't a Roman philosopher, he was an anti-Roman terrorist degenerate who contributed to civic decay and the collapse of European Civilization, and not the type of guy I would ever take advice from. I have read some Plato, and some Ovid, and some Jung and the like. I don't get into the big philosophers often because they tend to induce existential dread in me, but I certainly don't need a college course to engage with their work- colleges are just places that charge you to read what you could read for free, and probably absorb more comprehensively because there's not some pretentious professor breathing down your neck and enforcing their interpretation of the text onto you.

Even then, I am generally of the belief that there are certain universal truths and connective tissues to the human experience that I could probably pick up on as well as Plato did all those millennia ago, entirely on my own, without his help. And to modern people, considering just how much time has passed, how many events and discoveries, Plato and Socrates and all of those guys have ideas that to a modern person would seem kind of basic. Not at all to discount Plato- I think everyone should have at least a rudimentary understanding of his work, and I do believe that if we read more Plato and less Jesus we'd be a way less dysfunctional species.
 
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Lamp Fool

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most modern day people are smarter than Jesus simply by virtue of the Enlightenment having happened between his execution 2,000 years ago and the present day
Ah, yes. The classic Enlightenment dark ages thesis.
informativegraph.jpg

If you want something more up-to-date and civilized than those bronze age yokels, maybe the intelligent and refreshingly-cosmopolitan Marquis de Sade is more up your alley?
 

ch4zzyklon

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Man, I come here to read some interesting points of view. I was expecting to find some general opinion with which I would strongly disagree someday, but this and the other post you took the time to craft have taken my expectations out of proportions. And I've seen the worst in 4chan, 8kun, and other similar sites. I won't argue your points, I will only deny them completely and leave it at that. You should try to post this in >redditcostanzayeahrightsmirk, you could gather a cult following based on the massive schizophrenic ramblings you posted.
 
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nsequeira119

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Man, I come here to read some interesting points of view. I was expecting to find some general opinion with which I would strongly disagree someday, but this and the other post you took the time to craft have taken my expectations out of proportions. And I've seen the worst in 4chan, 8kun, and other similar sites. I won't argue your points, I will only deny them completely and leave it at that. You should try to post this in >redditcostanzayeahrightsmirk, you could gather a cult following based on the massive schizophrenic ramblings you posted.
Well, no- I've already gained a cult following over there, but >redditcostanzayeahrightsmirk absolutely hates my guts. A few years ago I tried spreading the word about my fantastic mail-order comics on their pisshole of a website, and they had the nerve to give me a lifetime ban for no reason. I tried fighting it for as long as possible, but the scumbags over there don't have a sense of humor or a sense of decency, so they've outlawed any mention of my name while allowing pornography and whatever other dumb crap. I think Agora is a much more effective conduit for free speech and thought, >redditcostanzayeahrightsmirk has gone down the dumpster ever since they started trading publicly, and their decline is sort of a microcosm of the decline of the Internet in general. If you're interested, I would recommend this video from a few years back:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf9rL9-uK-M


I might create a thread about all this unto itself eventually, but I agree with you 100%- >redditcostanzayeahrightsmirk is a malevolent demon swamp full of milquetoast morons who are dedicated to completely neutering the free and open spread of information
 
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BLOCKLIT GUNTOTER

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they had the nerve to give me a lifetime ban for no reason
My brother in Christ, the video you linked explained and evidenced pretty substantially how you spammed and shilled your comic site all over unrelated subreddits, and created multitudes of sock puppet accounts to advertise, preform autofellatio, and harass your critics.

As a cherry on top to these antics: After the campaign to ban you from >redditcostanzayeahrightsmirk was successful, you went on to write an article in a Fandom Wiki that you created about yourself to criticize the "comicphobic hate group" that had organized to eject you from the platform.

r/BanNicolasSequiera did nothing wrong. Whether or not this extensive paper trail of self-absorbed lolcow antics is genuine autism or some elaborate troll, or somewhere inbetween, you should feel lucky you haven't yet cultivated the attention of K*wi F*rms or some shit. Take it easy bro!
 
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Waninem

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I'm already well aware that other people have come before me and have probably said everything I'm about to say better, but I've been looking at this for a while and I might as well join the weenie roast. WARNING, WALL OF TEXT INCOMING-

First:
the Protestant Work Ethic encourages excessive labor because it promises a fulfilling afterlife in Heaven.
This is heresy. Go out and talk to any Christian preacher worth their salt and they'll tell you this is salvation through works. The Bible (especially the New Testament) actively discourages this mindset, because the whole point is that nobody can work enough to be worthy of Heaven. If you try, you are denying Christ's sacrifice- because you think you can get there through your own efforts, and because of our universally broken state, nothing we do can even get us close. This doesn't stop some people from subconsciously or actively believing this, but it's still not right regardless. A lot of Protestants do work a lot, but we just do so because it's our nature. This is admittedly a tangent, but since your running your own thesis to counter this one, I still felt I needed to say something about it.

All my friends want to be lawyers or scientists, they talk about big houses and big cars and steak dinners.
I don't talk that much with Gen Z folks, or at least the really young Gen Z folks (I'm barely a Millenial myself, while my siblings and some friends are Gen Z,) but I will say I haven't really heard that many people say they want things like this. I don't know if you've considered this, but it's entirely possible this hedonistic want for things is due to the fact you live in a fairly well-off area. For context, I come from one of the poorest parts of the United States. Most people might in fancy dream of things like this, but they're not actively working towards it because they can't afford to. People struggle to pay the bills and put food on the table most of the time, so any dreaming of boats or cars or anything like that is just mere escapism, a wish that they could live a more carefree life. Heck it's possible that your friends (or some of them) might want big houses and cars and a fancy job for the same reason, to escape.

This obsession with the acquisition of material results in a lack of identity and individuality- nobody my age even seems to want such a thing.
...I can't say I agree with this line, here. Humans are complicated creatures at the best of times, but I've been around some materialistic people too and even they didn't use their stuff as a substitute for a personality. Most of them accumulated stuff because it tied in with their base personality and likes. Who do you hang out with, and are they truly so bland that they only want what everyone else wants? I know there's hardcore normies out there but surely at least one of your peeps has to have some hidden depths in there.

I think you are correct on what college tends to do to a person's mind, especially if you're already thinking something non-mainstream. However this statement here:

And then one commits suicide, because one becomes apathetic toward the value of life
People don't typically commit suicide because they become apathetic towards the value of life, their own or otherwise. The ones I've met who were inclined toward this; they were in a lot of pain, emotional or physical, and the reason they were even tempted to end it all was because it seemed like the only way out. People don't kill themselves because they simply don't care anymore, not usually. They kill themselves because they want the pain to stop. (Some also kill themselves out of shame but this too tends to be based on pain.)

Suicide is also, of course, motivated by the fallacious belief in a superior afterlife.
This is even more wrong. Suicide is one of those sins that some people feel is unforgivable; if I'm not mistaken it's a mortal sin in Catholicism (Catholics, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.) Even if some of them did think heaven or whatever comes after will be better, they're not typically thinking that in a clear manner. They're wracked with pain; that's all they can see.

It is becoming repetitive at this point, to watch as my peers- who I wouldn't even necessarily consider peers, because they seem to operate under the PWE without recognizing as much- follow the same path of self-destruction.
I know your thesis so far is that people are working themselves to death in pursuit of a better afterlife, but I can't help but wonder; you live in Denver, and I'm assuming neither you nor your peers are all that religious. How are they working towards a better afterlife if they're after stuff they want in this life? Big cars, big boats, big houses; these are statement pieces. Stuff you show off to people, to scream "look how far I've come!" They're already getting their reward, even if as you stated, they won't be able to enjoy it for long.

I do resonate with your Denver segue, admittedly. You're a bit wrong in assuming that Southerners or other subcultures in the US are recognized more than Denverites, because the problem with Denver exists in a lot more places than you realize. People who haven't lived in an area, coming in to supplant the people who have and make it into their own image, looking down on the residents as if they were beneath them. This is happening in a lot of places worldwide, or is at the very least a danger. Honestly I'd argue Southerners aren't very respected as a demographic still; sure they're acknowledged, but a lot of them are still seen as lowly and backwards. My own demographic, Appalachia... people still look at us and think we're hillbillies who use outdoor toilets and can't read sometimes. The only reason Appalachia isn't suffering what Denver is dealing with is because it's so impoverished that nobody wants to live there, except for the people who came from there. With all of that said:

Relatively, I'm privileged compared to the people who sleep in doorways on Colfax-
You're definitely not wrong there. Not just saying that because of your laundry list of relatively minor problems compared to the people sleeping in Colfax doorways; this whole essay seems like it's from the point of view from someone who hasn't really experienced or observed that much adversity or suffering. Sure, you might've seen the people sleeping in doorways, but do you know them personally? Are they your friends? What do they mean to you? What's coming later is gonna reinforce this idea of mine, but it really seems they're just something you look at on the way from point A to point B that you don't understand that well. I understand to a degree; it's extremely difficult to put yourself in the shoes of another if you're autistic, but still.

My generation is full of people who complain about the effects of late-stage capitalism while only enabling and facilitating late-stage capitalism, they seem to assume I'm one of them even though I've lived most of my life in abject poverty,
I'm interested in what you consider abject poverty. I don't mean this as an insult in any way; I just want to know, because I'm sure as a relatively well-to-do Denverite it's probably different from the abject poverty I've observed.

To tie this all back to the PWE, I believe that the Protestant Work Ethic is mostly to blame, and that more people would do well to consider whether their behavior is influenced by it.
So... PWE is causing people, whether they realize it or not, to work long hours, buy fancy things they might only be able to use for a little while before they keel over and die... because they're working towards a better life after this one? Are you sure this isn't caused by other factors, some societal, and others personal? How are the Atheists saving up for the afterlife if they believe this is the only life? They might as well meet their personal goals and buy their shiny toys, because they have nothing to look forward to. Not to mention America's propensity to encourage people grinding at the millstone so they can "be successful" compared to their peers, or some people wanting to prove something to themselves, or other people not wanting to let others in their life down, or a million other things. Heck you live in Denver; I'm assuming Denver's got a fairly high cost of living because it's a major city. Maybe those guys are working so hard because they have to and they're trying not to end up homeless. You can't really speak for everyone in Denver when you don't know what's driving them to do the things they do. Heck you talked about being privileged because you weren't stuck renting like a lot of other folks; rent is one of the biggest expenses people tend to have.

DLE is, as the name implies, a form of direct experience with life, a middle finger to college and to professionalism and to any notion of a superior being. It means walking whenever possible, going out in blizzards and rainstorms and all kinds of inclement weather, it means taking the roads less traveled, soaking in as much life as possible even when doing so doesn't make any practical sense. It means learning to enjoy the mundane or even the negative- to view all events in life as interesting and worthwhile, and to only work enough as is absolutely necessary to maintain basic health.
I'm gonna just say this: not all things are worth experiencing. This might be projection on your part, because it seems like you're chasing experiences just for the sake of feeling something, and while I too enjoy going outside and just enjoying simple things like seeing the sun go down, I also realize there's a lot of senseless bad that happens to people that doesn't leave them in a better state than it did before.

DLE is good because it creates extremely smart, resilient individuals. The Hobo culture of the 1920s and 1930s, for instance, produced maybe the greatest specimens of humanity who ever lived.
Now this, this is the reason why I suspect you haven't observed that much suffering. I'm sure you are aware, but the late 1920s to 1930s were where the Great Depression took place, where many people ended up homeless, starving, and completely destitute. Including the hobos you admire so much. Maybe a few of them were thrillseeking travelers who wanted to experience what the world had to offer, but I'd wager a good chunk of them were homeless refugees who might've gone weeks without eating a bite and lived in shanty towns. Maybe they lost some relatives who weren't as lucky as them. They weren't stalwart stoics who only worked when they had to; they were probably tortured souls who would've liked to have a stable home and family again. Heck if you met one on the street he'd probably be glad to be in your shoes, probably marvel at your heavenly lifestyle in comparison to his. Again, I can't speak for all of them, but still, this is just romanticism at best. And no, I would not wager hobos are less vulnerable to being in a cult; if anything I'd say they're more vulnerable because a good chunk of them would like a way out.

Honestly, from the sound of it you seem like a fish in a small fishtank. You need to go outside and actually get to know more people. Go talk to some pastors, go volunteer at the Boys and Girls Club or a homeless shelter, just actually get to know people with values and experiences that are different from yours. Stop assuming religion is bad because it's clear you don't know enough about religion to even make a good critique on it, let alone what it can mean to someone else. Maybe go chill out with the fellas on the bus. And also don't tell people you said you was smarter than Jesus; that is absolutely not gonna go down well or make you look smart. Ok, end rant.
 
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nsequeira119

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My brother in Christ, the video you linked explained and evidenced pretty substantially how you spammed and shilled your comic site all over unrelated subreddits, and created multitudes of sock puppet accounts to advertise, preform autofellatio, and harass your critics.

As a cherry on top to these antics: After the campaign to ban you from >redditcostanzayeahrightsmirk was successful, you went on to write an article in a Fandom Wiki that you created about yourself to criticize the "comicphobic hate group" that had organized to eject you from the platform.

r/BanNicolasSequiera did nothing wrong. Whether or not this extensive paper trail of self-absorbed lolcow antics is genuine autism or some elaborate troll, or somewhere inbetween, you should feel lucky you haven't yet cultivated the attention of K*wi F*rms or some shit. Take it easy bro!
This is a strange position to take, considering how often I hear >redditcostanzayeahrightsmirk maligned and criticized for its horrible moderation and slimy business tactics. All you're doing, by claiming that "r/BanNicolasSequeira did nothing wrong," is effectively performing fellatio on >redditcostanzayeahrightsmirk and excusing their horrible behavior towards independent artists such as myself. The Internet dies without people like me to make it interesting, and if >redditcostanzayeahrightsmirk had their way, every website would be a sterile, bland, homogenous pile of content slop. We're already seeing that with how much >redditcostanzayeahrightsmirk pushes themselves in SEO rankings to get on the front page of Google.

Also- who's supposed to write a Fandom Wiki about me besides me? I'm the only one who seems to care enough to document this sort of thing, and to set the record straight, considering how often people like yourself who weren't there seem to get the facts wrong (I never "harassed my critics," for instance. I never had critics because nobody bought my comics). The fact that you blindly accept lies promoted by >redditcostanzayeahrightsmirk specifically to further their corporate agenda sort of goes to show how low the standards of the Internet have fallen, and how willingly we'll accept the intrusion of stock-motivated interests in the name of free communication.
 
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nsequeira119

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I'm already well aware that other people have come before me and have probably said everything I'm about to say better, but I've been looking at this for a while and I might as well join the weenie roast. WARNING, WALL OF TEXT INCOMING-

First:

This is heresy. Go out and talk to any Christian preacher worth their salt and they'll tell you this is salvation through works. The Bible (especially the New Testament) actively discourages this mindset, because the whole point is that nobody can work enough to be worthy of Heaven. If you try, you are denying Christ's sacrifice- because you think you can get there through your own efforts, and because of our universally broken state, nothing we do can even get us close. This doesn't stop some people from subconsciously or actively believing this, but it's still not right regardless. A lot of Protestants do work a lot, but we just do so because it's our nature. This is admittedly a tangent, but since your running your own thesis to counter this one, I still felt I needed to say something about it.


I don't talk that much with Gen Z folks, or at least the really young Gen Z folks (I'm barely a Millenial myself, while my siblings and some friends are Gen Z,) but I will say I haven't really heard that many people say they want things like this. I don't know if you've considered this, but it's entirely possible this hedonistic want for things is due to the fact you live in a fairly well-off area. For context, I come from one of the poorest parts of the United States. Most people might in fancy dream of things like this, but they're not actively working towards it because they can't afford to. People struggle to pay the bills and put food on the table most of the time, so any dreaming of boats or cars or anything like that is just mere escapism, a wish that they could live a more carefree life. Heck it's possible that your friends (or some of them) might want big houses and cars and a fancy job for the same reason, to escape.


...I can't say I agree with this line, here. Humans are complicated creatures at the best of times, but I've been around some materialistic people too and even they didn't use their stuff as a substitute for a personality. Most of them accumulated stuff because it tied in with their base personality and likes. Who do you hang out with, and are they truly so bland that they only want what everyone else wants? I know there's hardcore normies out there but surely at least one of your peeps has to have some hidden depths in there.

I think you are correct on what college tends to do to a person's mind, especially if you're already thinking something non-mainstream. However this statement here:


People don't typically commit suicide because they become apathetic towards the value of life, their own or otherwise. The ones I've met who were inclined toward this; they were in a lot of pain, emotional or physical, and the reason they were even tempted to end it all was because it seemed like the only way out. People don't kill themselves because they simply don't care anymore, not usually. They kill themselves because they want the pain to stop. (Some also kill themselves out of shame but this too tends to be based on pain.)


This is even more wrong. Suicide is one of those sins that some people feel is unforgivable; if I'm not mistaken it's a mortal sin in Catholicism (Catholics, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.) Even if some of them did think heaven or whatever comes after will be better, they're not typically thinking that in a clear manner. They're wracked with pain; that's all they can see.


I know your thesis so far is that people are working themselves to death in pursuit of a better afterlife, but I can't help but wonder; you live in Denver, and I'm assuming neither you nor your peers are all that religious. How are they working towards a better afterlife if they're after stuff they want in this life? Big cars, big boats, big houses; these are statement pieces. Stuff you show off to people, to scream "look how far I've come!" They're already getting their reward, even if as you stated, they won't be able to enjoy it for long.

I do resonate with your Denver segue, admittedly. You're a bit wrong in assuming that Southerners or other subcultures in the US are recognized more than Denverites, because the problem with Denver exists in a lot more places than you realize. People who haven't lived in an area, coming in to supplant the people who have and make it into their own image, looking down on the residents as if they were beneath them. This is happening in a lot of places worldwide, or is at the very least a danger. Honestly I'd argue Southerners aren't very respected as a demographic still; sure they're acknowledged, but a lot of them are still seen as lowly and backwards. My own demographic, Appalachia... people still look at us and think we're hillbillies who use outdoor toilets and can't read sometimes. The only reason Appalachia isn't suffering what Denver is dealing with is because it's so impoverished that nobody wants to live there, except for the people who came from there. With all of that said:


You're definitely not wrong there. Not just saying that because of your laundry list of relatively minor problems compared to the people sleeping in Colfax doorways; this whole essay seems like it's from the point of view from someone who hasn't really experienced or observed that much adversity or suffering. Sure, you might've seen the people sleeping in doorways, but do you know them personally? Are they your friends? What do they mean to you? What's coming later is gonna reinforce this idea of mine, but it really seems they're just something you look at on the way from point A to point B that you don't understand that well. I understand to a degree; it's extremely difficult to put yourself in the shoes of another if you're autistic, but still.


I'm interested in what you consider abject poverty. I don't mean this as an insult in any way; I just want to know, because I'm sure as a relatively well-to-do Denverite it's probably different from the abject poverty I've observed.


So... PWE is causing people, whether they realize it or not, to work long hours, buy fancy things they might only be able to use for a little while before they keel over and die... because they're working towards a better life after this one? Are you sure this isn't caused by other factors, some societal, and others personal? How are the Atheists saving up for the afterlife if they believe this is the only life? They might as well meet their personal goals and buy their shiny toys, because they have nothing to look forward to. Not to mention America's propensity to encourage people grinding at the millstone so they can "be successful" compared to their peers, or some people wanting to prove something to themselves, or other people not wanting to let others in their life down, or a million other things. Heck you live in Denver; I'm assuming Denver's got a fairly high cost of living because it's a major city. Maybe those guys are working so hard because they have to and they're trying not to end up homeless. You can't really speak for everyone in Denver when you don't know what's driving them to do the things they do. Heck you talked about being privileged because you weren't stuck renting like a lot of other folks; rent is one of the biggest expenses people tend to have.


I'm gonna just say this: not all things are worth experiencing. This might be projection on your part, because it seems like you're chasing experiences just for the sake of feeling something, and while I too enjoy going outside and just enjoying simple things like seeing the sun go down, I also realize there's a lot of senseless bad that happens to people that doesn't leave them in a better state than it did before.


Now this, this is the reason why I suspect you haven't observed that much suffering. I'm sure you are aware, but the late 1920s to 1930s were where the Great Depression took place, where many people ended up homeless, starving, and completely destitute. Including the hobos you admire so much. Maybe a few of them were thrillseeking travelers who wanted to experience what the world had to offer, but I'd wager a good chunk of them were homeless refugees who might've gone weeks without eating a bite and lived in shanty towns. Maybe they lost some relatives who weren't as lucky as them. They weren't stalwart stoics who only worked when they had to; they were probably tortured souls who would've liked to have a stable home and family again. Heck if you met one on the street he'd probably be glad to be in your shoes, probably marvel at your heavenly lifestyle in comparison to his. Again, I can't speak for all of them, but still, this is just romanticism at best. And no, I would not wager hobos are less vulnerable to being in a cult; if anything I'd say they're more vulnerable because a good chunk of them would like a way out.

Honestly, from the sound of it you seem like a fish in a small fishtank. You need to go outside and actually get to know more people. Go talk to some pastors, go volunteer at the Boys and Girls Club or a homeless shelter, just actually get to know people with values and experiences that are different from yours. Stop assuming religion is bad because it's clear you don't know enough about religion to even make a good critique on it, let alone what it can mean to someone else. Maybe go chill out with the fellas on the bus. And also don't tell people you said you was smarter than Jesus; that is absolutely not gonna go down well or make you look smart. Ok, end rant.
I have an interesting anecdote, somewhat related to this- I tried making friends with a girl who was a meth addict today. She was sitting out on the sidewalk, and every half-hour or so, she would sort of semi-collapse onto the ground, and her hands were stained with meth residue. I think I inhaled some of the secondhand meth smoke, and I felt sorta icky afterwards- anyway, she was in a state where she was basically inhaling some meth off a little square of foil about every twenty minutes or so, through a ballpoint pen, and I kinda wanted to see if she could stop, but she just kept going. I was very bored today, so I brought her some pizza and a can of sparkling water out behind a strip mall where she had set up, and I tried talking to her a little and getting to know her, because all I can do is make friends with people, and she wasn't in any position to go anywhere, and I felt maybe having some company might jog her brain a little. Plus she seemed interesting.

She told me about how she was a five-language speaking polyglot, a college graduate, and an engineer, and she used to live on the sunny coast of Spain but had come to Denver 9 months earlier specifically so she could work in engineering, because she had heard that was where all the big money was. She said it had basically been a part of her life for as long as she could remember, and that smoking meth had also been a part of her life for as long as she could remember. I tried asking her about her job or how long she'd been out on the street, but she just kept shaking and smoking meth. Then, at a certain point, about the time the sun set, she suddenly started launching into a dialogue with characters who weren't there, and made a neighing sound, sort of like a horse, and turned towards me and was like, "Do you not understand!?!?! Why are you still here??? Get away from me!" and I was very confused as to why she would flip on a dime from being talkative to being hostile. It was like watching someone with advanced dementia, except she was maybe 27 at the oldest and she kept stomping on the ground and reaching out towards me as if to shoo me away, and also talking about how the atmosphere was disintegrating. So I was just kind of like, "Okay. have a nice night, I guess," and gave her a bus ticket and left. It was sad, because I thought our friendship was getting someplace, and whenever I try and make a new pal they're always hesitant or annoyed.
 
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LostintheCycle

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nsequeira119

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I love that the comments are just roasting you the whole time. I was going to pick out choice quotes but there's too many
Honestly I'd be honoured if people made a hate subreddit about me
It's not that difficult, everyone on >redditcostanzayeahrightsmirk is extremely sensitive. Just do something innocuous- say something in the wrong way, lightly question the action of a moderator on a particular Subreddit, question the legitimacy of the site's infrastructure- seriously, everyone on there is a diehard brainwashed hamster who believes that the Admins and Mods can do no wrong even when they do obvious wrong. It is, I would go so far as to say, THE most censored website on the Internet, designed to cultivate and ensure a specific mode of allegiant thought. If I were evil, I'd be impressed at the progress they've made in getting everyone to obey them unquestioningly.

"Oh, you've banned my Subreddit that I spent ten years growing for free because someone happened to post a photo of a nipple in here? I would never dream of starting an independent forum with Vbulletin or XenForo, M'Lord, allow me to pledge my fealty to you, m'lord, for the updoots"

I'm glad I left, I had no business even being on there to begin with
 
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I love that the comments are just roasting you the whole time. I was going to pick out choice quotes but there's too many
Honestly I'd be honoured if people made a hate subreddit about me
Makes one feel like Lady gaga or Myspace Tom (real)

Btw I always forget what DLE means, Don't Learn Engineering? XD
 
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