Do you guys believe in Ghosts?

[Deleted member 1930]

There is too much uncertainty to know for sure. Did the apparition ever say "Jesus Christ is lord," or anything of the sort? This is a good way to tell if a spirit if a demon or not, as demons often recoil at even the very name of Christ. Examples of these are sleep paralysis events and "alien abductions" that abruptly end once the name of Jesus Christ is uttered.

interesting insight. not one i disagree with.

I've had visitations by angels, God and Jesus Christ. at no point did any of these explicitly say what they were. it was just something you could...feel, i can't explain it. i knew what they were just as same as i know the sky is blue or grass is green. i didn't need to hear it or an explanation. i just knew.

in the case of the angels, idk. they could have been demonic. but they didn't feel evil, or deceitful and anything. the just felt kind of euphoric to be in their presence and seemed pretty wise about...everything

in the case of jesus....it's hard to remember. he was just this imposing figure. can't explain it. i wasn't afraid or anything. i was just in pure awe at the feeling of him (or the Spirit) being in the room. his presence was very paternal almost. i felt kind of like a little kid standing next to his dad. you know when you're a kid and your dad just feels like a god to you. big, strong, infallible. that is how this felt. he did speak, and i was speaking in tongues...i don't remember much of what he said, except for one phrase. it's burned into my brain. he said "I am with you, brother".

In terms of God, that was something the angels told me. they explained that humans are naive and cannot handle knowing what God knows. But we always try. So their attitude was "ok, you want to see god, you want to see the universe and look behind the curtain? ok, you asked for it". and i was just bathed in this complete, pure, warm orange light. i began to cry uncontrollably at the pure euphoria, joy, and love. can't describe it.

it was because of these expereinces, that I converted. I was an atheist prior to all this, never even opened a single page of the bible.

what is your opinion on this?

 

[s0ren]

I'm not a true believer but I choose to believe in them because life is more fun that way

 

[DeathToMicroWaves]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng-GEzhFtFA

Funny south park clip on ghost hunters

 

[Rikstah]

I don't personally believe in them. It seems like superstition born from a lack of education. Have you guys ever seen a ghost?

When I was a kid I was watching TV in my room alone while my parents were downstairs at night.

A blackout happened and as soon as the lights went off my pedestal fan slammed on the ground but my TV kept running.

The TV was playing an old Clint Eastwood movie and he was in the processing of painting the town red and renaming it hell.

I swear it on all that is Holy this actually happened.

Who knows?....

 

[Outer Heaven]

Devils can disguise themselves as human souls if they plan to possess someone or "haunt" an area. Demons often impersonate real people during Ouija board rituals, which is a significant cause of modern possessions.

This is close to the Islamic view with the minor difference that we believe demons and the devil to be a species in and off themselves called jinn. Out of personal experience theyre probably the cause of every supernatural thing people talk about like aliens or ghosts or mythological creatures since they can take many forms and do things outside of the physical reality we understand.

That is quite disturbing. I'm not saying that its impossible that God could speak to you, but I've spoken to enough occultists to know that one should be extremely wary when communicating with a spiritual entity that claims to be God. Other than loved ones, demons are especially good at disguising themselves as holy people- God, Mary, even Jesus himself. If you are hearing his voice in your head, I also recommend the same prayers. If you'd like, I can keep you in my personal prayers. I would prefer to know your first name for this, but if you don't feel comfortable giving that out, I understand.

This is the only rational view. Anyone who speaks to supernatural entities and expects them to be truthful is deluded. Since they operate in a different reality how on earth could someone claim to know for certain that the thing they interacted with was benevolent. Its impossible to verify their intentions like you could with a human yet people often fall for their lies.

 

[Friend]

Saw one when I was a kid but I still don't believe in them.

I saw a ghost as a kid. Probably not, though.

some of you guys are kind of retarded....... <"I saw this thing, but dr. science told me it's not real, so i must of not seen it"

Human spirits, in the vein of the popular conception of ghosts (like the Haunted Mansion) are not real. When you die, you go to either Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory. Angels do exist, and even a person that has died can appear in an angelic form to a human (though this is rare). Devils can disguise themselves as human souls if they plan to possess someone or "haunt" an area. Demons often impersonate real people during Ouija board rituals, which is a significant cause of modern possessions.

EDIT: some rewording and further clarifications.

Saying 3: Seeking Within

Jesus said, "If your leaders tell you, 'Look, the kingdom is in heaven,' then the birds of heaven will precede you. If they tell you, 'It's in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and outside of you.

"When you know yourselves, then you'll be known, and you'll realize that you're the children of the living Father. But if you don't know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."



anyway, i never saw a ghost but i think they are real.

 

[mydadiscar]

some of you guys are kind of retarded....... <"I saw this thing, but dr. science told me it's not real, so i must of not seen it"

Saying 3: Seeking Within

Jesus said, "If your leaders tell you, 'Look, the kingdom is in heaven,' then the birds of heaven will precede you. If they tell you, 'It's in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and outside of you.

"When you know yourselves, then you'll be known, and you'll realize that you're the children of the living Father. But if you don't know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."



anyway, i never saw a ghost but i think they are real.

Yeah, because it is not like I was a dumb kid with an overactive imagination or anything and was obsessed with ghosts at the time. Nor is my head filled with false childhood memories. Clearly, as unreliable as my mind and memories are, my spooky ghost encounter totally happened. Sure.

 

[Deleted member 3373]

some of you guys are kind of retarded....... <"I saw this thing, but dr. science told me it's not real, so i must of not seen it"

Saying 3: Seeking Within

Jesus said, "If your leaders tell you, 'Look, the kingdom is in heaven,' then the birds of heaven will precede you. If they tell you, 'It's in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and outside of you.

"When you know yourselves, then you'll be known, and you'll realize that you're the children of the living Father. But if you don't know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."



anyway, i never saw a ghost but i think they are real.

Dr. Science, everyone's favourite, totally not replacement for God. Of course there is something behind some of these sightings. There simply can't not be if so many people throughout history report them. As I said earier it's more so a case of what exactly these things are, rather than if they exist or not.

 

[Andy Kaufman]

When countersignalling le evil SJWs and >reddit so hard turns you into unironic medieval peasant level of retarded.

 

[Deleted member 3373]

When countersignalling le evil SJWs and >reddit so hard turns you into unironic medieval peasant level of retarded.

Well that's the thing. Counter-signalling science worship allows to seriously examine the basis of modern society. In the process you end up realising that modern humans aren't really any more intelligent than we were 1000 years ago. Not only that you also realise that the mind can have an impact on reality. Those people weren't stupid when taken seriously. It opens up a whole avenue of solutions to modern problems. For example I'm thinking about posting a thread on how flogging might actually be a preferable alternative to prison.

 

[Andy Kaufman]

In the process you end up realising that modern humans aren't really any more intelligent than we were 1000 years ago.

But why ignore the scientific discoveries we made along the way? Espeically considering that the last ~300 have been exceptionally important for understanding where we are as a species on a philosophical level. Ignoring that to larp as some backwards christian seems like a massive cope disguised as trying to troll some normies.

Not only that you also realise that the mind can have an impact on reality.

That doesn't make ghosts exist outside your mind though. The scientific method to construct a hypothesis and then try to falsify it with experiments and measurements is a huge achievements that just gets memed on by some FOTM 4chan teens that want to be counter culture. Just because some >reddit soycels apporpraited muh science for political gain doesn't mean you have to regress like an idiot and start believing in supersitions again. I mean, you do you, but don't fall into the trap of believing that anyone who respects the scientific method is an NPC or whatever you retards are on about atm.
This blind counter signalling is just as programmed as you think your opposition to be.

 

[Deleted member 3373]

But why ignore the scientific discoveries we made along the way? Espeically considering that the last ~300 have been exceptionally important for understanding where we are as a species on a philosophical level. Ignoring that to larp as some backwards christian seems like a massive cope disguised as trying to troll some normies.

That doesn't make ghosts exist outside your mind though. The scientific method to construct a hypothesis and then try to falsify it with experiments and measurements is a huge achievements that just gets memed on by some FOTM 4chan teens that want to be counter culture. Just because some >reddit soycels apporpraited muh science for political gain doesn't mean you have to regress like an idiot and start believing in supersitions again. I mean, you do you, but don't fall into the trap of believing that anyone who respects the scientific method is an NPC or whatever you retards are on about atm.
This blind counter signalling is just as programmed as you think your opposition to be.

Because we don't understand where we are as a species. Yes there have been important discoveries about the material world but that doesn't falsify previous epochs of knowledge, nor does it answer certain fundamental questions about human's relationship to the world around us. It can help us to develope medicine but it has also taken us out of step with our spiritual nature that is continually being eroded in favour of materialism. And the end results can already be seen. Massive growth in mental illness to the point that people cannot identify what their gender is anymore. When you become too in love with the material it opens the gates of hell in so far as humans become obsessed with deconstruction and lose any sense of intrinsic truth.

And this stuff started coming to me when I first started self improvement (mainly rejection of pornography). After that I looked down at my copy of the bible and said "point taken". It's just a natural process from there. Deconstruct modern thinking and seriously test it in day to day living. Frankly this is scientific. Perhaps even more so than regular science. Because here we've got hundreds of thousands of people all getting together and saying "this is true" with similar experiences. How is that not scientific? If huge scores of people throughout history all say "I've seen a ghost" then how can every single one of them be lying? Again what exactly a ghost is, we do not know, but it is safe to say they must exist in some form.

 

[Andy Kaufman]

but that doesn't falsify previous epochs of knowledge

It literally does, though. Not everything of course, but most of human civilisations have been wrong about most of: Medicine, Astronomy, Physics, Biology and more.

Massive growth in mental illness

Because there's more people running to therapists now. Impossible to know if it increased when even a few centuries ago, mental illness wasn't even recognised. Also trying to link the lack of spiritualism to a rise in mental illness (that is impossible to prove in the first place) sounds convenient but one dimensional.
I agree that completely casting away spiritualism won't do us any good but starting to believe in ghosts again and calling anyone who doubts their existance an NPC is just the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

[Deleted member 3373]

It literally does, though. Not everything of course, but most of human civilisations have been wrong about most of: Medicine, Astronomy, Physics, Biology and more.

Because there's more people running to therapists now. Impossible to know if it increased when even a few centuries ago, mental illness wasn't even recognised. Also trying to link the lack of spiritualism to a rise in mental illness (that is impossible to prove in the first place) sounds convenient but one dimensional.
I agree that completely casting away spiritualism won't do us any good but starting to believe in ghosts again and calling anyone who doubts their existance an NPC is just the opposite end of the spectrum.

It's not so much about being an NPC so much as it is Atheist bigotry, which is a very real thing in modern society. People should, at the very least, be allowed to think like this. But modern society is increasingly penalising this. And there is actually some evidence to back up what I'm saying. Mainly that of the fact that those involved in religion (so long as it does not become fundamentalist) are on average much mentally healthier than their non-religious counterparts. So whilst no direct evidence there is a lot of circumstancial evidence to back it up.

 

[TRXTR]

Are ghosts real? Yes.

Is God real? Yes

Is science legitimate? Just as legitimate as spiritual practices and spiritual knowledge gained through inner meditations, science is that for the external world.

Is spirituality legitimate? Yes, allowing oneself to give into the intuitive side of themselves and their mind allows the cognitive parts to relax, have less analysis paralysis, and learning to "go with the flow" and "trust the signs [of the gods]" to guide you opens up an entirely new modality for most people in this day and age.

Can science and spirituality work together for the betterment of human civilization? Yes, yes they can.

 

[Andy Kaufman]

It's not so much about being an NPC so much as it is Atheist bigotry, which is a very real thing in modern society.

While I agree that this is a thing, in this particular case we were just rationalising our experiences and got called NPCs and retards for not being convinced that what we saw as children were actual ghosts. I didn't attack anyone else's belief if ghosts exist or not, I just told my story and think it was merely childish imagination + false memories which is imo the most likely explanation, since a supernatural has yet to be proven.

People should, at the very least, be allowed to think like this.

I agree but so should I be allowed to be a sceptic towards ghosts, tarot cards, astrology, witchcraft and miracles as long as I don't attack the person behind it.

Mainly that of the fact that those involved in religion (so long as it does not become fundamentalist) are on average much mentally healthier than their non-religious counterparts.

And I think there is a logical reason for that. The cold reality of science is harsh and depressing and I think it's very relatable to cope (in the actual sense of the word) with spiritualism to focus on things that just make us feel good. Belief gives comfort. The comfort that your deceased loved ones are in a better place now, that YOU will be in a better place when you die, that everyhting happens for a good reason, that you have a soul and that evil doers will recieve punishment, be it Karma or Hell.
I personally see the appeal but even after some serious thought and time (early death of a parent) with the subject matter I still never found my way to believing in any of this because I knew I was just trying to escape reality. Which is alright, I just don't deem it necessary for me personally. I can be irrational in many other ways to comfort myself.
My personal take on why people appear to be more mentally unwell nowadays is the loss of community in general, not spiritualism in particular. People never had fewer friends on average, more people are virgins than only one let alone two generations before. The internet and social media in particular makes people lonely and disconnected. The zoomers who larp as catholics on twitter face the very same problems, they can cite bible verses and (un)ironically listen to gregorian monks chanting as much as they like. It's the actual communities that are missing in most of their lives.
Going back to what we said: We're still the cavemen from 100k years ago with most of our brains. We need to sit in a tribe around people all day and do things with our hands. Diddling on touchscreens alone but online in your dark room has become the replacement for that for many.

 

[Deleted member 3373]

While I agree that this is a thing, in this particular case we were just rationalising our experiences and got called NPCs and retards for not being convinced that what we saw as children were actual ghosts. I didn't attack anyone else's belief if ghosts exist or not, I just told my story and think it was merely childish imagination + false memories which is imo the most likely explanation, since a supernatural has yet to be proven.

I agree but so should I be allowed to be a sceptic towards ghosts, tarot cards, astrology, witchcraft and miracles as long as I don't attack the person behind it.

And I think there is a logical reason for that. The cold reality of science is harsh and depressing and I think it's very relatable to cope (in the actual sense of the word) with spiritualism to focus on things that just make us feel good. Belief gives comfort. The comfort that your deceased loved ones are in a better place now, that YOU will be in a better place when you die, that everyhting happens for a good reason, that you have a soul and that evil doers will recieve punishment, be it Karma or Hell.
I personally see the appeal but even after some serious thought and time (early death of a parent) with the subject matter I still never found my way to believing in any of this because I knew I was just trying to escape reality. Which is alright, I just don't deem it necessary for me personally. I can be irrational in many other ways to comfort myself.
My personal take on why people appear to be more mentally unwell nowadays is the loss of community in general, not spiritualism in particular. People never had fewer friends on average, more people are virgins than only one let alone two generations before. The internet and social media in particular makes people lonely and disconnected. The zoomers who larp as catholics on twitter face the very same problems, they can cite bible verses and (un)ironically listen to gregorian monks chanting as much as they like. It's the actual communities that are missing in most of their lives.
Going back to what we said: We're still the cavemen from 100k years ago with most of our brains. We need to sit in a tribe around people all day and do things with our hands. Diddling on touchscreens alone but online in your dark room has become the replacement for that for many.

I'm very well aware of this issue. But here's the thing. Those original stone age communities all believed in spirits. You can see interviews with currently living primitives where life after death is not even a question. It's just accepted as a fact. And yes the weird online Catholics are a strange beast. I'm not sure if they even go to mass or not. It's a case of adopted identity rather than anything serious. Either way I am Tedpilled myself so I'm well read on this stuff.

 

[TRXTR]

While I agree that this is a thing, in this particular case we were just rationalising our experiences and got called NPCs and retards for not being convinced that what we saw as children were actual ghosts. I didn't attack anyone else's belief if ghosts exist or not, I just told my story and think it was merely childish imagination + false memories which is imo the most likely explanation, since a supernatural has yet to be proven.

I agree but so should I be allowed to be a sceptic towards ghosts, tarot cards, astrology, witchcraft and miracles as long as I don't attack the person behind it.

And I think there is a logical reason for that. The cold reality of science is harsh and depressing and I think it's very relatable to cope (in the actual sense of the word) with spiritualism to focus on things that just make us feel good. Belief gives comfort. The comfort that your deceased loved ones are in a better place now, that YOU will be in a better place when you die, that everyhting happens for a good reason, that you have a soul and that evil doers will recieve punishment, be it Karma or Hell.
I personally see the appeal but even after some serious thought and time (early death of a parent) with the subject matter I still never found my way to believing in any of this because I knew I was just trying to escape reality. Which is alright, I just don't deem it necessary for me personally. I can be irrational in many other ways to comfort myself.
My personal take on why people appear to be more mentally unwell nowadays is the loss of community in general, not spiritualism in particular. People never had fewer friends on average, more people are virgins than only one let alone two generations before. The internet and social media in particular makes people lonely and disconnected. The zoomers who larp as catholics on twitter face the very same problems, they can cite bible verses and (un)ironically listen to gregorian monks chanting as much as they like. It's the actual communities that are missing in most of their lives.
Going back to what we said: We're still the cavemen from 100k years ago with most of our brains. We need to sit in a tribe around people all day and do things with our hands. Diddling on touchscreens alone but online in your dark room has become the replacement for that for many.

I'm really appreciating the honesty in your opinion, so I feel like I should be just as honest and brunt and reply by saying: The deeper you let yourself fall into the spiritual, the evidence piles up, but it's a very personal experience, like following a trail of breadcrumbs, that trying to relay the sequence of signs to anyone but your own memory bank would be futile and make you look crazy. I think that is part of the point, part of the puzzle of it: why doesn't God just show Himself to everyone? Well, at least here on Earth, it seems proof can only ever be personal, a relationship with God that no one else can either help your prove or deny outright. Part of what makes the very idea of God so "ungraspable", and most undoubtedly part of the design of it all.

 

[Andy Kaufman]

Those original stone age communities all believed in spirits. You can see interviews with currently living primitives where life after death is not even a question. It's just accepted as a fact.

And it took several thousand years of philosophers to look beyond just accepting. The groundworks for the Renaissance and Enlightenment were laid even by Christian Monks in the 15th century, centuries before it actually happened. I think NOT just accepting what our gut feeling and socio-evolutionary instincts tell us is a huge achievement for us as a species. In my opinion the need for something spiritual is a coping mechanism for our conciousness. We are self aware of our mortality and unlike most animals (I don't want to open that can of worms rn) don't just think about death when it's about to happen. We are self aware of our existence, basic philosphy like Cogito Ergo Sum and this puts a huge stress on us mentally and I think religion and spirituality are man made remedies. Not actually transcendental beings existing but brain made figments to lull us in. And it works so we should accept them in a away but also be aware of the mechanism itself.

The deeper you let yourself fall into the spiritual, the evidence piles up, but it's a very personal experience, like following a trail of breadcrumbs, that trying to relay the sequence of signs to anyone but your own memory bank would be futile and make you look crazy. I think that is part of the point, part of the puzzle of it: why doesn't God just show Himself to everyone? Well, at least here on Earth, it seems proof can only ever be personal, a relationship with God that no one else can either help your prove or deny outright. Part of what makes the very idea of God so "ungraspable", and most undoubtedly part of the design of it all.

In accordance to what I said to Linkat already and your last sentence especially: the design of it all.
I'm just too aware that it IS all designed by humans. I wouldn't even know what God to pray to. Zeus? Odin? Allah? Ra? Some nature spirit from the Germanic Tribes that lived thousands of years before me where I live now? Who is correct? Who would I as a mere mortal be to decide that? The Romans and Greeks looked at the stars and saw a Lion and a Bull, the Indians, several hundred miles and years away saw the very same stars and saw something else. Some stars that make up important constellations in "our" zodiac system are not even recognised in others, so why should they influence my life over the other?
To me, those are all stories. The norse Edda, the Greek Odyssey, the Bible, the Quran. Stories about mythological heroes that show us a relatable characters to idolize and aspire to because stories are the best medium to convey morals and humans naturally gravitate towards characters because of our empathy and general social inclinations and I don't think I will ever be able to shake this view of the instrumental nature of spiritualism. I could suspend my disbelief enough for some escapism but never for serious conviction.
And that's why you are right with it being very personal. For some it just never happens.

 

[TRXTR]

And it took several thousand years of philosophers to look beyond just accepting. The groundworks for the Renaissance and Enlightenment were laid even by Christian Monks in the 15th century, centuries before it actually happened. I think NOT just accepting what our gut feeling and socio-evolutionary instincts tell us is a huge achievement for us as a species. In my opinion the need for something spiritual is a coping mechanism for our conciousness. We are self aware of our mortality and unlike most animals (I don't want to open that can of worms rn) don't just think about death when it's about to happen. We are self aware of our existence, basic philosphy like Cogito Ergo Sum and this puts a huge stress on us mentally and I think religion and spirituality are man made remedies. Not actually transcendental beings existing but brain made figments to lull us in. And it works so we should accept them in a away but also be aware of the mechanism itself.


In accordance to what I said to Linkat already and your last sentence especially: the design of it all.
I'm just too aware that it IS all designed by humans. I wouldn't even know what God to pray to. Zeus? Odin? Allah? Ra? Some nature spirit from the Germanic Tribes that lived thousands of years before me where I live now? Who is correct? Who would I as a mere mortal be to decide that? The Romans and Greeks looked at the stars and saw a Lion and a Bull, the Indians, several hundred miles and years away saw the very same stars and saw something else. Some stars that make up important constellations in "our" zodiac system are not even recognised in others, so why should they influence my life over the other?
To me, those are all stories. The norse Edda, the Greek Odyssey, the Bible, the Quran. Stories about mythological heroes that show us a relatable characters to idolize and aspire to because stories are the best medium to convey morals and humans naturally gravitate towards characters because of our empathy and general social inclinations and I don't think I will ever be able to shake this view of the instrumental nature of spiritualism. I could suspend my disbelief enough for some escapism but never for serious conviction.
And that's why you are right with it being very personal. For some it just never happens.

We are self aware of our mortality and unlike most animals (I don't want to open that can of worms rn

I'm just too aware that it IS all designed by humans. I wouldn't even know what God to pray to. Zeus? Odin? Allah? Ra? Some nature spirit from the Germanic Tribes that lived thousands of years before me where I live now? Who is correct? Who would I as a mere mortal be to decide that?

Learning the ideas and reasons behind animism would clear up alot of tangles for you I think, it did for me. Because saying it's all designed by humans shows more than a bit of hubris about humanity's place in the Cosmos at Large. Everything being One, and Everything stemming from the same Source, coupled with animistic thinking and pragmatics leaves me with almost no questions as to the how or why of existence and a feeling of happiness, contentment, and am unfettering companionship with the world around me. No more "Who is right?" Because kernels of truth exist in all things;

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
- William Blake

God is always calling out for everyone to hear Him, I don't think people have to give up on listening for Him just because the path to see evidence of God has been hard. But a Leap of Faith must be taken, at a point. Another almost literal hurdle or chasm to cross.