Does anyone else find the modern indie gaming scene extremely overrated?

[alCannium27]

I was under the impression that indie horror is in the worst state it's ever been?

Maybe we've passed this particular era now, but last I checked, a lot of indie horrors were extremely badly put together, full of jumpscares, and just generally devoid of gameplay. Ever since Outlast and Five Nights at Freddie's killed horror games, I was under the impression they were still dead?

Recently people have been recommending me Lethal Company and it just looks like a game designed exclusively to generate "funny reactions" from twitch streamers, and nothing else.

But I don't really play horror games, so I don't really follow them.

Phasmophobia was a really good indie horror game if you view it soley on its mechanics. The aethestics invokes those cheesy 2000s' ghost hunter shows, a relatively decent progression for more equipment but never truly making anything completely obsolete (at least back when I was playing), the main goal of the game requires a learning of the game's ghost behaviors and reward risk management and logical thinking (experienced players can often identify the original ghosts with one or two clues only using ambient clues)

Of course it became streamerbait and ended up ruined by online play, such is the folly of humanity. Curse be the flesh

 

[alCannium27]

what's minimalist about it?

That art style. Disgusting filth.

 

[punisheddead]

You know what really grinds my gears? I hate that indie games for some reason get away with a "minimalist" art style. Why is it soulless when a AAA does it, yet perfectly fine for indies?? Here's what I mean:

I think it's fine for some indies to have this style because it shows me what games to stay away from, like how a poisonous frog shows it's bright colors. I know exactly what this game is about without even looking anything up, it's some platformer/walking simulator but now with A VAN wowza. The van is probably actually in the ownership of the MCs aunt or grandmother (because even in video games the millennials and zoomers can't own anything) and the objective is to find some fancy trinket or a relative, probably a sister since it's a modern indie game with a female MC. The gameplay consists of walking and platforming with the occasional press x to talk to npc with candid dialogue. It's inclusive so no semblance of challenge is present. I won't even look anything up because I know I'm right, it's 30$ for a 5$ art project itch.io game.

 

[MAKSI]

>be just released indie game
>become popular, overshadowing other indie games
>my "indie" game is acquired or a sequel is produced by non-indie
>dominate the market and still masquerade as indie
>mfw im not indie anymore

 

[nobo]

Indie is such a meaningless word now yeah.
It's a buzzword you stack on to your thing to sell it; that's it.


There are still good games, but you just have to sift through stuff to get to them now.
You can't put any trust into anyone to deliver just because they delivered in the past.

 

[PizzaW0lf]

The gameplay consists of walking and platforming with the occasional press x to talk to npc with candid dialogue. It's inclusive so no semblance of challenge is present.

Looking at "caravan sandwhich", I feel like I'd rather just boot up GTA V and find some van or RV vehicle to drive around in. At least I'll be able to listen to Los Santos Rock radio while I'm playing. And I guarantee the gameplay would still be way more fun.

 

[UltramarineWeather]

I think it's fine for some indies to have this style because it shows me what games to stay away from, like how a poisonous frog shows it's bright colors. I know exactly what this game is about without even looking anything up, it's some platformer/walking simulator but now with A VAN wowza. The van is probably actually in the ownership of the MCs aunt or grandmother (because even in video games the millennials and zoomers can't own anything) and the objective is to find some fancy trinket or a relative, probably a sister since it's a modern indie game with a female MC. The gameplay consists of walking and platforming with the occasional press x to talk to npc with candid dialogue. It's inclusive so no semblance of challenge is present. I won't even look anything up because I know I'm right, it's 30$ for a 5$ art project itch.io game.

Did you actually guess all of that? Because I looked its Steam page up and you were right on every single point. Eerie.

 

[InsufferableCynic]

Just to follow-up on this thread a little bit.

I originally made this post at the height of a post-Balatro depression (which is why I pick on it so much in the OP). I had multiple friends recommend it to me, I saw it won numerous awards at GDC, and I played it only to be extremely disappointed by how mediocre it is. Meanwhile much better games have fallen by the wayside.

As an indie developer myself I sort of felt a lack of desire to keep working - what's the point of even trying when you will always be overshadowed by garbage. Even worse, why would I spend 2+ years perfectly crafting a game when someone can churn out some shit in a weekend and gain a lot more money, fame and job prospects than I can. So I stopped working on all my projects.

Now it's a few weeks later and I still haven't started back on anything, it's all just languished.

Sorry to be selfish but can anyone post examples of where "the good game one", or equivalent? Because I need a pick me up and some motivation to keep working - namely the knowledge that, yes, sometimes it's worth spending the effort because something will actually come from it at the other end.

(And before people say "you should be making games for the fun of it, not for any kind of recognition", I get what you're saying, but once you're 2 years into a project, you're exhausted, and you've made multiple sacrifices and given up things to make your game happen, getting nothing at the end of it just makes the time feel wasted, no matter how "fun" it was, so that's not really a good attitude to have, it always backfires)

 

[UltramarineWeather]

Do you crawl? Best roguelike by far, in my opinion (didn't try the recently released "Cave of qud" or "Brogue", though), because when you die, you know it's your fault. And it's free and in-browser!

Currently trying to win with a Formicid Warrior worshiping Okawaru...

 

[punisheddead]

Did you actually guess all of that? Because I looked its Steam page up and you were right on every single point. Eerie.

I have. I've seen too many itch.io games that I can smell them from a mile away.

originally made this post at the height of a post-Balatro depression (which is why I pick on it so much in the OP). I had multiple friends recommend it to me, I saw it won numerous awards at GDC, and I played it only to be extremely disappointed by how mediocre it is. Meanwhile much better games have fallen by the wayside.

As an indie developer myself I sort of felt a lack of desire to keep working - what's the point of even trying when you will always be overshadowed by garbage. Even worse, why would I spend 2+ years perfectly crafting a game when someone can churn out some shit in a weekend and gain a lot more money, fame and job prospects than I can. So I stopped working on all my projects.

Now it's a few weeks later and I still haven't started back on anything, it's all just languished.

Sorry to be selfish but can anyone post examples of where "the good game one", or equivalent? Because I need a pick me up and some motivation to keep working - namely the knowledge that, yes, sometimes it's worth spending the effort because something will actually come from it at the other end.

Hard work hasn't equaled success for a long time my friend. Maybe just aim for cult classic status anything beyond that just seems like dumb luck. I can't show you any amazing indies that are massive because there aren't any.

 

[Junious]

There is nothing new under the sun. One of the biggest takeaways of my recent deep dive into console emulation is that most of these indie games have a console/early pc progenitor with more content, better graphics and music, less bugs, and better performance on low end machines. It's incredibly frustrating to see a low graphics text adventure on itch that I'm interested in, but because it was developed in unity there is an insane load time or general meltdown over playing an animation, displaying a textbox and a picture, things PCs handled no problem in the past. I can boot up a similar adventure game from 1990 on emulator and it runs great. Programming being more difficult in the old days was actually a great gatekeeper in game development IMO.

 

[Ross_Я]

(And before people say "you should be making games for the fun of it, not for any kind of recognition", I get what you're saying, but once you're 2 years into a project, you're exhausted, and you've made multiple sacrifices and given up things to make your game happen, getting nothing at the end of it just makes the time feel wasted, no matter how "fun" it was, so that's not really a good attitude to have, it always backfires)

Fuck'em, dude. Anyone who ever created something that was a serious big project knows that it is incredibly hard to "just do it for fun". It stops being fun when you spend days ironing out the flaws and stuff and... whatever. It's not fun, as at some point it stops being a hobby and becomes work, hard work. All in all, as I said, who did all that knows all that.

Sorry to be selfish but can anyone post examples of where "the good game one", or equivalent? Because I need a pick me up and some motivation to keep working - namely the knowledge that, yes, sometimes it's worth spending the effort because something will actually come from it at the other end.

I fail to find it selfish.
Either way, whatever I'll post would still feel like a few games struck by a shot of immense luck rather than some kind of... tendency or something.

Hard work hasn't equaled success for a long time my friend. Maybe just aim for cult classic status anything beyond that just seems like dumb luck.

Sums it up nicely.
Still, I really hope you will get your desire to keep working on your projects back. Even if I eventually won't be able to muster one myself, it would be really good to help someone else to do that, however indirectly... Plus, I can name at least a couple of really big indies either way, so why not to do it regardless.
First off, Hotline Miami, of course. It's a game that propelled itself, its publisher and pretty much the whole 80's revival. It's huge.
Yes, it does actually have a publisher, but Devolver Digital is one of the few publishers that are well known as... "indie publishers". Yeah, it's an oxymoron, but I guess most of the people in this thread know what I mean. And, frankly, Devolver Digital has been true to its reputation as far as I can see.
If you want a real deal indie, there's Papers, Please, done and published by Lucas Pope. I'd say it's been massive, spawning a lot of content, including an awesome short movie.
Lucas Pope's Return Of The Obra Dinn is also a nice example. It is not as big as his first game, but it is quite known and I'd say it has its following.
Those probably would be the biggest ones. If you do not go for massive success though, there are tons more, of course. Like, Phoenotopia: Awakening, which is a charming and quite huge metroidvania that actually started out as a flash game back on Newgrounds. It is barely known, but fans (me included) are dying to see the second part one day, as the game ends on a cliffhanger. Still, it will probably never happen, and yet the game itself is just awesome, even if the story is unfinished.
Finally, even though not quite indie, I think that examples of mods, fan games and just small projects that actually get noticed and receive financing is inspiring enough as well. One recent instance would be Symphonia - a 10-minute long student project which gathered so much attention with its initial release on itch.io and GOG, that it got a publisher and has been expanded to the whole 20 bucks game on Steam.

Anyway, as the quote goes, I can't lie to you about your chances, but... you have my sympathies.

 

[RisingThumb]

I originally made this post at the height of a post-Balatro depression (which is why I pick on it so much in the OP). I had multiple friends recommend it to me, I saw it won numerous awards at GDC, and I played it only to be extremely disappointed by how mediocre it is. Meanwhile much better games have fallen by the wayside.

As an indie developer myself I sort of felt a lack of desire to keep working - what's the point of even trying when you will always be overshadowed by garbage. Even worse, why would I spend 2+ years perfectly crafting a game when someone can churn out some shit in a weekend and gain a lot more money, fame and job prospects than I can. So I stopped working on all my projects.

Now it's a few weeks later and I still haven't started back on anything, it's all just languished.

Comparison is the thief of joy.

You're also looking at games in a very material way. If it's money you're after, go work for an investment bank, or get a job for a software development consultancy or something and you'll get it there. If you want fame broadly among gamers, go do livestreaming or some work like Asmongold or Minecraft youtubers. If you want job prospects, go get qualifications or certs or go to University or whatever. Games are abysmal in all these ways.

Also if you're looking for a tangible way to stop yourself languishing on it... What I do is I ensure I do at least one thing for the game I'm working on each day, no matter how small or insignificant it is. Usually each day it snowballs into more than one thing as it's always... one thing leading into another. Other days, I am sluggish but at least I can be rest assured, it has moved forward.

Sorry to be selfish but can anyone post examples of where "the good game one", or equivalent? Because I need a pick me up and some motivation to keep working - namely the knowledge that, yes, sometimes it's worth spending the effort because something will actually come from it at the other end.

The only thing that will come out of it materially, is a game. Maybe a little bit of money if you sell it commercially. Making a game is about having a good idea and having good execution. Most games are usually one or the other and suffer for it. Only you can decide if it's worth the effort.

You already have to decide what's worth the effort... a sort of "anti-feature" list of things you will not be doing, or things that have constraints and can't be pursued. This is because you have to be pragmatic.

(And before people say "you should be making games for the fun of it, not for any kind of recognition", I get what you're saying, but once you're 2 years into a project, you're exhausted, and you've made multiple sacrifices and given up things to make your game happen, getting nothing at the end of it just makes the time feel wasted, no matter how "fun" it was, so that's not really a good attitude to have, it always backfires)

Fun doesn't pay the bills, and the animal part of the brain will hijack your work on things it thinks or knows will get poor social validation. Go ask some people to play your game, get some positive feedback on it to get your excitement and joy back. Plus you also get to playtest a little bit which will help too.

I appreciate and agree with this. The only thing I can really do, is remember the excitement I had about my game design at the start of the project, and have faith that my past excitement for the idea held merit. The longer you go into a project, the more the project becomes like mud.

 

[CLOVER-ZERO]

The problem with indie games imho is that the lot of them want to be just like the game that inspired them in the first place, rather than go above and beyond and use that inspiration to make their own mark on the world.

At the same time, a lot of indie video games either play it too safe, their creators are pretentious blowhards with attitude problems, or they are insufferable mocking parodies that never take themselves or their audience seriously.

 

[Slumber]

Not really. I find it to be more varied and interesting than it's ever been.

 

[AphTheWizard]

The problem with indie games imho is that the lot of them want to be just like the game that inspired them in the first place, rather than go above and beyond and use that inspiration to make their own mark on the world.

At the same time, a lot of indie video games either play it too safe, their creators are pretentious blowhards with attitude problems, or they are insufferable mocking parodies that never take themselves or their audience seriously.

Could it be the platforms that sell games? Like if indie game x sells 10 million copies, steam will recommend similar games to all 10 million people. Which would mean that people are buying similar games and developers are rewarded for making similar games

 

[alCannium27]

Could it be the platforms that sell games? Like if indie game x sells 10 million copies, steam will recommend similar games to all 10 million people. Which would mean that people are buying similar games and developers are rewarded for making similar games

If an indie game sold 10 million copies, it already did something right and that means people want more of it. The platform did nothing wrong there.

 

[AphTheWizard]

If an indie game sold 10 million copies, it already did something right and that means people want more of it. The platform did nothing wrong there.

Nothing against the original games. I think a lot of the popular indie games are mostly fine, its the derivatives. I like Stardew Valley, I hate that there are a million shitty clones that don't do anything original.

 

[PizzaW0lf]

To add some positivity I absolutely love both Shovel knight and Stardew valley and are my favorite indie games so far. It's been a while since I last played shovel knight and I think they added some more content since but the main campaign is more than enough. Shovel knight is a celebration of 8-bit platforming and has many elements that I love and recognize. Like the world map, it's similar to SMB3 and has similar quarks as that game does. Also the gameplay and controls are incredible and very polished. When the game first came out I thought it was pretty novel too.

Stardew Valley is another indie masterpiece for me since I love that this game has seemingly endless content. And really carries the torch for the farm-life sim genre.

In conclusion, I love these games as they maximize the appeal for people like me and really nail why I love 8-bit games or farm-life sims. I think indies today are lacking that point A to point B game design.

 

[RisingThumb]

Could it be the platforms that sell games? Like if indie game x sells 10 million copies, steam will recommend similar games to all 10 million people. Which would mean that people are buying similar games and developers are rewarded for making similar games

I think it's also that if you're making a new genre, platforms like Steam don't have tags that make finding games in that genre easy yet, so finding the audience for the game is harder. You need to lean more on brand recognition, and also on making a great game in the first place. Certainly one that is an "easy sell" for trailer and marketing materials.

With genres, a lot of consumers can shortcut the decision process on buying a game. I already know I'm not gonna by real time strategy games because I have no interest in them... so it shortcuts the decision to a no on any of those. If it's a new genre, I can't make that decision as easily... which means I normally skip over these new genre games until I'm convinced enough by friends or by stuff I've seen online to get it. It's an uphill battle, making a game as it is is hard enough, having a good idea for the game, and having good implementation of it is also hard- shooting your foot off in marketing with a harder to market idea(one that doesn't adhere to genres easily) means you're having a harder time. I think it's only financially worthwhile if it's a studio with a war chest and can handle a commercial flop(the ideas and work can still be good and commercially flop for anything, just look at Bladerunner!), or if your team or yourself as a solo dev is comfortable with significantly greater risk. This risk becomes serious and meaningful if you employ people, and maybe to a lesser degree if you have contracted workers to help on it.

This also isn't getting around the fact that most people when they set off to make games, don't do it to push the medium further, but rather to copy or "to be inspired" to put it more kindly, and slap their own coat of paint on the game they copy. People forget that the FPS genre was once called Doomlikes, and we already have Metroidvanias, Roguelike and Soulslike which are all defined by taking a game and slapping your own coat of paint on it. I don't think this is bad, but a lot of these games are a bit bland, and often in the shadow of what they're copying.