Finished Industrial Society and its Future

[0ur0b0r0s]

May be out of place here on the forum, but I just finished listening to an audiobook. I guess it was by TEDx or something complaining about how easy it is to buy food. Let's go be hunter-gatherers, I guess? and oh, yeah, lefties get rekt, or something?
What does Agora think about Kasinkspaposdifjsky's Manifesto?

(I actually found it to be quite clear, concise, and accurate.)

 

[Kolph]

That's cool and all bro but you gotta see this

 

[0ur0b0r0s]

That's cool and all bro but you gotta see this

View attachment 12219

TEDx talk host turned himself into roast bird for eating? Funniest shit ive ever seen

 

[E R I L A Z]

(I actually found it to be quite clear, concise, and accurate.)

man was an MIT STEMfag, yknow

 

[TRXTR]

Should life ever really be *too* easy though? I think that's what gets people infected by Evil, and brings the demons out of hell and into the hearts and minds of impressionable men. I think there is a lesson we as Homo sapiens can learn though, through our times here on this planet, that we can actually improve our situation, actually.

 

[0ur0b0r0s]

Should life ever really be *too* easy though? I think that's what gets people infected by Evil, and brings the demons out of hell and into the hearts and minds of impressionable men. I think there is a lesson we as Homo sapiens can learn though, through our times here on this planet, that we can actually improve our situation, actually.

Yeah, the guy was saying that the fact that things are so easy means that we all get depressed because we're only mimicking the struggle of keeping ourselves alive, something we evolved the need to grapple with (like all living things)

 

[TRXTR]

Yeah, the guy was saying that the fact that things are so easy means that we all get depressed because we're only mimicking the struggle of keeping ourselves alive, something we evolved the need to grapple with (like all living things)

>only mimicking the struggle of keeping ourselves alive
Now that's something to shake a stick at!

 

[Cecil]

Stagnancy and a lack of effort to improve one's lot in life leads to enervation. Society crumbles under such conditions. It is proven through all history that comfort and luxury enfeeble populations until another, hungrier force comes along with the will and means to overcome the now weakened people. We must not succumb to comfort entirely.

The maintenance of a regular army is how some countries got around all this. But if the military also becomes too soft, the technological gap inevitably will be closed in time.

EDIT:
To the main point in the thread, when you don't have any real problems, it is very common to fabricate them. You really don't have time to bemoan depression when you have to spend every hour trying to survive.

Of course, this doesn't mean there is no real mental illness. Abe Lincoln wrote about how bad his depression and suicidal feelings were, for example, and he had no shortage of things to do.

 

[0ur0b0r0s]

>only mimicking the struggle of keeping ourselves alive
Now that's something to shake a stick at!

Not exactly clear on the meaning of your expression here @TRXTR sorry lol

 

[0ur0b0r0s]

Stagnancy and a lack of effort to improve one's lot in life leads to enervation. Society crumbles under such conditions. It is proven through all history that comfort and luxury enfeeble populations until another, hungrier force comes along with the will and means to overcome the now weakened people. We must not succumb to comfort entirely.

The maintenance of a regular army is how some countries got around all this. But if the military also becomes too soft, the technological gap inevitably will be closed in time.

EDIT:
To the main point in the thread, when you don't have any real problems, it is very common to fabricate them. You really don't have time to bemoan depression when you have to spend every hour trying to survive.

Of course, this doesn't mean there is no real mental illness. Abe Lincoln wrote about how bad his depression and suicidal feelings were, for example, and he had no shortage of things to do.

I believe that Kaczynski would have argued that all of Lincoln's activities were actually still surrogate activities.

I think the main push of the book was not that the having nothing to do, or being too surrounded with comfort, was the killer; but that technology was not compatible with freedom. And by not being able to fulfill developed needs to provide for ourselves (with our lives on the line), we deteriorate.

Another element that adds more subtlety to "You really don't have time to bemoan depression when you have to spend every hour trying to survive" (although this has great truth to it), is that many of the ways we "try to survive" in the modern world are ways more highly dependent on and hampered by others. Kaczynski talks about how primitive man may not have been as secure, but he had more control over his own security (i.e. your boss fires you vs. you have to fight a boar). This decreased control to fulfill the process of self-preservation and goal-attainment ("power process") leads to feelings of helplessness, for instance.

You make some good points here, but I'm just arguing from the book's perspective.

 

[Cecil]

I believe that Kaczynski would have argued that all of Lincoln's activities were actually still surrogate activities.

I think the main push of the book was not that the having nothing to do, or being too surrounded with comfort, was the killer; but that technology was not compatible with freedom. And by not being able to fulfill developed needs to provide for ourselves (with our lives on the line), we deteriorate.

Another element that adds more subtlety to "You really don't have time to bemoan depression when you have to spend every hour trying to survive" (although this has great truth to it), is that many of the ways we "try to survive" in the modern world are ways more highly dependent on and hampered by others. Kaczynski talks about how primitive man may not have been as secure, but he had more control over his own security (i.e. your boss fires you vs. you have to fight a boar). This decreased control to fulfill the process of self-preservation and goal-attainment ("power process") leads to feelings of helplessness, for instance.

You make some good points here, but I'm just arguing from the book's perspective.

In Lincoln's case, I'm thinking of remarks he wrote in his journal while farming, which is a rather fitting parallel to Ted's work in relation to homesteading.
Indeed, the ease of life which facilitates laziness or indulgence permits degeneration. This however can be countered when your power-process correlated in a positive way, such as leveraging leisure to research more optimized ways to conduct routine tasks. There's a balance between decadence and innovation.

 

[Bob Jones]

If there were any doubt this forum was monitored by intelligence, now we may doubt no longer. Let's all welcome our friendly, underpaid and underappreciated neighborhood spooks.

 

[0ur0b0r0s]

If there were any doubt this forum was monitored by intelligence, now we may doubt no longer. Let's all welcome our friendly, underpaid and underappreciated neighborhood spooks.

who at

 

[MySpace Tom]

It's interesting that Ted was a messenger who got his manifesto out by attacking other messengers. In particular, he blew up David Gelernter's hand, a man who wrote the book "Mirror Worlds". This book illustrated a then-future of how software and computer systems would be used to model the real world to such a degree that it would essentially take on a life of its own. Things in the digital or "mirror" world would become things that we would work to achieve in the real world, and vice-versa. Of course, rather than looking like another point of possibility, Ted saw this as a new dimension of control imposed upon everyone's lives.

Getting beyond both of those, it's interesting how "mirror worlds", according to many cultures historically, has been used to describe alternate or even evil dimensions that are controlled by demons and that can affect our world. Not a thing that Ted ever touched on, but I just thought that's neat.

 

[vale-aroma]

Move onto Jacques Ellul for a deeper treatment of similar ideas.

 

[MorphedSnowman]

May be out of place here on the forum, but I just finished listening to an audiobook. I guess it was by TEDx or something complaining about how easy it is to buy food. Let's go be hunter-gatherers, I guess? and oh, yeah, lefties get rekt, or something?
What does Agora think about Kasinkspaposdifjsky's Manifesto?

(I actually found it to be quite clear, concise, and accurate.)

Just found out about industrial society, that shit sucks man

 

[Some_porcupine]

Just found out about industrial society, that shit sucks man

meme:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY2R2EPG9jo&ab_channel=mOWENthelawn

 

[Chomsky Honk]

There are so many things that humanity hasn't accomplished yet. In art, science and overal exploration of of capabilities of our mind and the world around. The apathy and dependency on the fragile system is itself a struggle which is to be overcame. And for me the idea of going back civilization-vise seems reductive and conceptually easy way.