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Fuck Aesthetic

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Baron Boogie BOOL

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avatar toph GIF
 
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Baron Boogie BOOL

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Lol I'm exactly like toph right now. Can't see anything except your post and Bobby's
Even Anime characters need some A E S T H E T I C love

black and white girl GIF

They get lonely too.
sad tears GIF
 
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Shi_dawg

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fuck you "Aesthetic" you ruined vaporwave and mixed it with lofi/Anime.
aesthetics are important to the history of vaporwave and have been part of the genre since the beginning. anime fits quite well with Future funk, but I think the line between vaporwave and future funk has been blurred due to the connection. If you want to blame anyone for the ruining of vaporwave, blame the people who use vaporwave's aesthetics without knowing the history of the genre. it just introduces people that think its all about "A E S T H E T I C S". Fuck that.
 
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vaporwavemaster1

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See, I don't like the gatekeeping attitude with this.

Macintosh Plus had one of the largest (if not the largest) vapor hits. You point out that it's an "American" genre, yet Floral Shoppe doesn't have a single track title in English. Hell, you're posting in Japanese right now. So, the Japanese aesthetic is okay, but one of Japan's largest exports (anime) is off limits?

Lupin the 3rd, Cowboy Bebop, and Ghost in the Shell were massive parts of my life during same time that malls were still thriving and Sega was running those big in-your-face "Sega!" advertisements. I started with Windows 95, then 98, 98 SE, ME, etc. and I loved the "aesthetic" that Macintoshes had to offer even if I never owned one. Vapor has always been about nostalgia for me, though I can slightly empathize with the viewpoint that vapor inherently has anti-consumerist roots. All of this said, why is anime off-limits but other pieces of the "east Asia aesthetic" aren't? If we're going to put vapor into this neat little box with all these rules, maybe it is true that vapor is dead. (sidenote: even if vapor is all about consumerism, anime actually fits with this perfectly. Some people's entire lives revolve around watching 2D characters on a screen. And the fandoms...and the claw machines! Anime is a consumerist goldmine, as far as I can tell)

To me, and you're welcome to disagree, "vaporwave" is a bit of an umbrella term much like "industrial." Industrial encompasses such a vast array of music with similar qualities, right? Ministry, Nine Inch Nails, Marilyn Manson, Rob Zombie, or we can go back to Kraftwerk or Depeche Mode or Gary Numan or whoever. There's some obvious differences between these bands and they certainly slot into different subgenres of industrial, but they're all industrial at the end of the day. Then The Gothsicles comes along with the album NESferatu. Some of the current/former members of the group include Brian "darkNES" Graupner, Matt "Sega Lugosi" Fanale, and Dan "Turbo Gothic 16" Clark. But you wouldn't say, "well you can't find any early industrial with the 'video game' aesthetic, so therefore The Gothsicles are not industrial," would you? Maybe you would say, "I don't like this video game industrial aesthetic or whatever it's called," and that's okay! No one is forcing you to enjoy or even consume this art. But to come at it from a gatekeeping perspective and say, "that's not real industrial!" is a fruitless endeavor. They're going to keep mixing the aesthetic that they enjoy with the music genre that they enjoy, and they're going to create interesting art and a unique aesthetic in the process. Maybe neither you nor I will enjoy this art nor this "unique aesthetic," but that doesn't make it any less valid, in my opinion.

Hope that makes my position clear. Maybe you define vaporwave as a much more specific genre than I do so we'll have some friendly disagreement there, but I'm happy to listen to your opinion on the matter.
アニメと日本語には大きな違いがあります。私は日本で生まれ育ったので日本語で話しますが、その言語は美的ではありません。アニメは、しかし、美学であり、それで非常に明確なものです。配色やテーマに関しては、それと蒸気波は大きく異なります。花屋のタイトルは日本語かもしれませんが、アニメではありません。ややアニメのグラフィックでさえ頭に浮かぶ唯一の初期のアルバムはインターネットクラブでしょう。
 
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BobbyTrivia

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アニメと日本語には大きな違いがあります。私は日本で生まれ育ったので日本語で話しますが、その言語は美的ではありません。アニメは、しかし、美学であり、それで非常に明確なものです。配色やテーマに関しては、それと蒸気波は大きく異なります。花屋のタイトルは日本語かもしれませんが、アニメではありません。ややアニメのグラフィックでさえ頭に浮かぶ唯一の初期のアルバムはインターネットクラブでしょう。
That's fair. But to restate my opinion: it doesn't matter if vaporwave incorporated anime imagery from day 1 or day 2000; it's still just vaporwave with an anime aesthetic (and obviously you don't have to like it).

You're welcome to reject my claim that vaporwave is an umbrella term that encompasses many different subgenres, some of which use anime imagery and "aesthetic," but I have to ask: if this is the case, what is vaporwave to you, then? What type of "aesthetic" is allowed, and what isn't? More importantly, I think I'm most curious about how you come up with that criteria in the first place. Is it just, the first 10 or however many vaporwave albums define the genre, and no deviation is acceptable?

I mentioned this in the chat recently, but I'm thinking that maybe we need a similar term to how black metal defines this sort of thing. Black metal has extremely anti-Christian roots, for instance, but there is such a thing as Christian black metal. There are also many "corporate" and "mainstream" black metal bands, though the genre was founded on very low budget/production quality. "True Norwegian Black Metal" describes the roots of the genre and the "black metal aesthetic" overall, but it's grown quite a bit since then. Maybe we need some sort of "original vaporwave" term to describe your vision of the "original vaporwave" aesthetic? Curious to hear your and others' thoughts on this.
 
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vaporwavemaster1

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That's fair. But to restate my opinion: it doesn't matter if vaporwave incorporated anime imagery from day 1 or day 2000; it's still just vaporwave with an anime aesthetic (and obviously you don't have to like it).

You're welcome to reject my claim that vaporwave is an umbrella term that encompasses many different subgenres, some of which use anime imagery and "aesthetic," but I have to ask: if this is the case, what is vaporwave to you, then? What type of "aesthetic" is allowed, and what isn't? More importantly, I think I'm most curious about how you come up with that criteria in the first place. Is it just, the first 10 or however many vaporwave albums define the genre, and no deviation is acceptable?

I mentioned this in the chat recently, but I'm thinking that maybe we need a similar term to how black metal defines this sort of thing. Black metal has extremely anti-Christian roots, for instance, but there is such a thing as Christian black metal. There are also many "corporate" and "mainstream" black metal bands, though the genre was founded on very low budget/production quality. "True Norwegian Black Metal" describes the roots of the genre and the "black metal aesthetic" overall, but it's grown quite a bit since then. Maybe we need some sort of "original vaporwave" term to describe your vision of the "original vaporwave" aesthetic? Curious to hear you and others' thoughts on this.
ヴェイパーウェイヴは非常に幅広いジャンルですが、最終的にはヴェイパーウェイヴを構成しないものがいくつかあります。シンセウェーブは別のジャンルであり、サイバーパンクは別のジャンルです。アニメは完全に別のジャンルです。それは何も悪いことではありません。すべてが蒸気波である必要がある、または蒸気波である可能性があるわけではありません。

それはファーストアルバムであることとは何の関係もありません、それは媒体の境界と慣行に固執することと関係があります。アニメをテーマにしたヴェイパーウェイヴアルバムを作るとしたら、それは純粋なヴェイパーウェイヴではありません。そこには本当に素晴らしい曲がいくつかあるかもしれませんが、それは別々のジャンルのマッシュアップであり、シンセウェイブとヴェイパーウェイブのマッシュアップについても同じことが言えます。

それは年表とはほとんど関係がありません
 
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Deleted member 2006

welp im leaving Agora Road its been a fun ride but im starting to get really pissed off consider this last out of context picture i posted,bye.
Screenshot 2021-03-20 2.33.18 PM.png
 
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Deleted member 2006

Just consume the media that you enjoy and ignore the media you don't, right?

I'm personally not an anime person but people mixing the "vaporwave aesthetic" with anime doesn't ruin vaporwave for me. How has it ruined it for you?
but how can you when its everywhere? When i search Vaporwave on google i dont wanna see brightly colored anime figures i wanna see the original vibe vaporwave gives.If i'm being honest i really like Steamwave music since i made some myself but the art is the thing that really bugs me.
 

AlmostHalf10

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私は認めます、アニメは蒸気波に属していません。ヴェイパーウェイヴはアメリカの発明であり、アニメとは何の関係もありません。サイバーパンクはちょっと手に入るけど、アニメとヴェイパーウェイヴの関係が見当たらない
If I recall correctly, the anime originated in Future Funk through the Artzie Music channel.

When Daft Punk split up, the owner said that their film Interstella 5555 had influenced him to use anime gifs.

For Daft Punk and Future Funk it does make sense because their genres are pretty similar.

I agree on vaporwave, though. I don't see the link between anime and vaporwave either.

Edif: Aidan Chick, a YouTube who makes Future Funk and EDM video essays had recently made a video about it.
 
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Rikstah

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fuck you "Aesthetic" you ruined vaporwave and mixed it with lofi/Anime.
I noticed but didn't take too much note of how related vaporwave / lofi / anime became.

Not that bothered by it though, theres something for everyone.
 
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BobbyTrivia

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ヴェイパーウェイヴは非常に幅広いジャンルですが、最終的にはヴェイパーウェイヴを構成しないものがいくつかあります。シンセウェーブは別のジャンルであり、サイバーパンクは別のジャンルです。アニメは完全に別のジャンルです。それは何も悪いことではありません。すべてが蒸気波である必要がある、または蒸気波である可能性があるわけではありません。

それはファーストアルバムであることとは何の関係もありません、それは媒体の境界と慣行に固執することと関係があります。アニメをテーマにしたヴェイパーウェイヴアルバムを作るとしたら、それは純粋なヴェイパーウェイヴではありません。そこには本当に素晴らしい曲がいくつかあるかもしれませんが、それは別々のジャンルのマッシュアップであり、シンセウェイブとヴェイパーウェイブのマッシュアップについても同じことが言えます。

それは年表とはほとんど関係がありません

I liked your post before you edited it :p

Maybe it'll help if you or someone posts some examples. Because, you're right, synthwave and cyberpunk are indeed different genres. But these are very obviously not vaporwave and (at least to me) seem to only be inspired by some vapor imagery.

Synthwave:

View: https://youtu.be/ahPindVHPK4?t=301


Cyberpunk:

View: https://youtu.be/kdwESnTsBIM?t=564


So, I don't think it's really worthwhile to bring in genres like this that are composed entirely differently and sound nothing like vaporwave as examples of "not vaporwave." I don't think anyone is arguing that these are the exact same thing as "pure vaporwave" (whatever that means :p). I would have a hard time even saying that they fall under the same "vaporwave" umbrella.

What about anime, then? I return to my original point: there was no "industrial video game aesthetics" or "video game-inspired industrial" music until The Gothsicles came around. But, they're still industrial; they just incorporate elements of video games. As for what constitutes vaporwave?

Let's look at the Wikipedia article for now, but I still implore you to present your own vision of vaporwave:

Vaporwave is a microgenre of electronic music, a visual art style, and an Internet meme that emerged in the early 2010s.[26] It is defined partly by its slowed-down, chopped and screwed samples of smooth jazz, elevator, R&B, and lounge music from the 1980s and 1990s. The surrounding subculture is sometimes associated with an ambiguous or satirical take on consumer capitalism and pop culture, and tends to be characterized by a nostalgic or surrealist engagement with the popular entertainment, technology and advertising of previous decades. Visually, it incorporates early Internet imagery, late 1990s web design, glitch art, anime, 3D-rendered objects, and cyberpunk tropes in its cover artwork and music videos.

Even if we flat-out ignore that "anime" is listed on vaporwave's Wikipedia entry (without citation, mind you!), how does anime not fit? Consumer capitalism, pop culture, nostalgia, surrealist, popular entertainment, technology... there's a whole lot of anime imagery that can be used to express and showcase these sorts of things. I can't help but come to conclusion that the people in this thread are insisting that anime imagery can't be used simply because they don't enjoy it themselves.

I mean, where's the line anyways? Can I produce a vaporwave song that receives your approval, and then toss a 1980's anime sample in there alongside some imagery from whatever anime it's from and suddenly it's "not vaporwave" anymore? If that's the case, I don't think I can have this discussion anymore; I think it's absurd for a genre that heavily leans on nostalgia and pop culture to gatekeep nostalgia and pop culture that they don't personally like. Vaporwave isn't yours or mine or anyone's in this thread, after all.

but how can you when its everywhere? When i search Vaporwave on google i dont wanna see brightly colored anime figures i wanna see the original vibe vaporwave gives.If i'm being honest i really like Steamwave music since i made some myself but the art is the thing that really bugs me.
I don't understand "everywhere." Just seek out the vaporwave that you enjoy and consume it. If the "aesthetic" videos have all moved on to the point where you can't enjoy them anymore, it sounds like you're dealing with the problem we all do as time marches on: "I liked the old stuff," "I liked it before it got popular," "I liked it until it started to change," etc. -- I can list off YouTube channel after YouTube channel that used to make videos that I enjoyed, and I don't like that they don't make the same content as they used to, but that's life. This is going to happen again and again and again throughout your life; it's just the way it is.

I tried to search around online about the "anime aesthetic" in vapor, and of course I didn't find much that was particularly useful, but I did find a link to the thread we're posting in right now :p

I might not end up responding anymore depending on where the conversation goes. I don't see anyone really engaging with my position or my arguments. I'm happy to have my mind changed on this, but I have the opinion I do for a reason, and I've shared those reasons.
 
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Deleted member 2006

I liked your post before you edited it :p

Maybe it'll help if you or someone posts some examples. Because, you're right, synthwave and cyberpunk are indeed different genres. But these are very obviously not vaporwave and (at least to me) seem to only be inspired by some vapor imagery.

Synthwave:

View: https://youtu.be/ahPindVHPK4?t=301


Cyberpunk:

View: https://youtu.be/kdwESnTsBIM?t=564


So, I don't think it's really worthwhile to bring in genres like this that are composed entirely differently and sound nothing like vaporwave as examples of "not vaporwave." I don't think anyone is arguing that these are the exact same thing as "pure vaporwave" (whatever that means :p). I would have a hard time even saying that they fall under the same "vaporwave" umbrella.

What about anime, then? I return to my original point: there was no "industrial video game aesthetics" or "video game-inspired industrial" music until The Gothsicles came around. But, they're still industrial; they just incorporate elements of video games. As for what constitutes vaporwave?

Let's look at the Wikipedia article for now, but I still implore you to present your own vision of vaporwave:



Even if we flat-out ignore that "anime" is listed on vaporwave's Wikipedia entry (without citation, mind you!), how does anime not fit? Consumer capitalism, pop culture, nostalgia, surrealist, popular entertainment, technology... there's a whole lot of anime imagery that can be used to express and showcase these sorts of things. I can't help but come to conclusion that the people in this thread are insisting that anime imagery can't be used simply because they don't enjoy it themselves.

I mean, where's the line anyways? Can I produce a vaporwave song that receives your approval, and then toss a 1980's anime sample in there alongside some imagery from whatever anime it's from and suddenly it's "not vaporwave" anymore? If that's the case, I don't think I can have this discussion anymore; I think it's absurd for a genre that heavily leans on nostalgia and pop culture to gatekeep nostalgia and pop culture that they don't personally like. Vaporwave isn't yours or mine or anyone's in this thread, after all.


I don't understand "everywhere." Just seek out the vaporwave that you enjoy and consume it. If the "aesthetic" videos have all moved on to the point where you can't enjoy them anymore, it sounds like you're dealing with the problem we all do as time marches on: "I liked the old stuff," "I liked it before it got popular," "I liked it until it started to change," etc. -- I can list off YouTube channel after YouTube channel that used to make videos that I enjoyed, and I don't like that they don't make the same content as they used to, but that's life. This is going to happen again and again and again throughout your life; it's just the way it is.

I tried to search around online about the "anime aesthetic" in vapor, and of course I didn't find much that was particularly useful, but I did find a link to the thread we're posting in right now :p

I might not end up responding anymore depending on where the conversation goes. I don't see anyone really engaging with my position or my arguments. I'm happy to have my mind changed on this, but I have the opinion I do for a reason, and I've shared those reasons.
But still its everywhere and i cant escape it
 

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