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Internet and Laws

consonant

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I've been thinking about laws relating to the internet because I've been seeing tech articles like this and this and when I see things like this I don't even think about the event that caused the article I just think about how there's so much more interest in media or government looking into the internet and trying to regulate it now. I'm pretty worried on how laws concerning the internet are going to look in the coming years from now because everytime it's a US law they completely miss the mark and try to moderate it like they're jannies instead of treating it as a global tool. At least they don't really go anywhere like the EARN IT Act but it still worries me.
The EU is pretty interesting too as they've been targetting technology like AI and phone chargers. But I respect their approach a lot more especially when it comes chargers because they're trying to actually make things easier for consumers instead of just sucking big tech dick like the USA but they aren't perfect (their AI regulation will probably hurt open source projects)

What are your thoughts on all of this? Do you think the internet is gonna be fucked by laws in a few years?
 
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RealTomCruise

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Up here in leafland there were some real concerns a bit back where the government were trying to get their hands in the algorithm of major social media by suggesting the rules that apply to radio (you need to play a certain % of Canadian artists) also should apply to the internet too (or at least the big social media sites). The fact they were even considering it makes me worried about governments further involvement with the internet. Long live the decentralized net.
 
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Sylph

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I think it's basically inevitable that they'll keep trying and in some countries it may end up a lot worse. But there are already countries (UK and Australia for example) where if you make certain types of posts online the cops will knock on your door to ask you some questions. The Internet is too valuable a resource to not try to control.

We already have stuff like "make your own Internet," where sites are basically getting eliminated and it's all 'fine because it's private businesses doing it'. Once governments are allowed to obviously interfere it'll only be worse. All a lot of westernized countries have to do is talk about hate speech and disinformation and conspiracy theories and a lot of online people will eat that up. Then once the definition of hate speech and conspiracies gets expanded to talking badly about your government or how Bush is lying about there being WMDS in Iraq and you can get in trouble for that then those in power get what they really want lol.

I know that at least in the US the Government is basically completely bought out by corporate interests and doesn't want to help the people. It would be ideal for those in power, both in government and the rich, if we can't talk about that and we're only allowed to argue about stupid shit that doesn't help anyone and in advertiser friendly ways on advertiser friendly platforms. You know, for our 'safety.'
 
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Shantotto

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I think it's basically inevitable that they'll keep trying and in some countries it may end up a lot worse. But there are already countries (UK and Australia for example) where if you make certain types of posts online the cops will knock on your door to ask you some questions. The Internet is too valuable a resource to not try to control.

We already have stuff like "make your own Internet," where sites are basically getting eliminated and it's all 'fine because it's private businesses doing it'. Once governments are allowed to obviously interfere it'll only be worse. All a lot of westernized countries have to do is talk about hate speech and disinformation and conspiracy theories and a lot of online people will eat that up. Then once the definition of hate speech and conspiracies gets expanded to talking badly about your government or how Bush is lying about there being WMDS in Iraq and you can get in trouble for that then those in power get what they really want lol.

I know that at least in the US the Government is basically completely bought out by corporate interests and doesn't want to help the people. It would be ideal for those in power, both in government and the rich, if we can't talk about that and we're only allowed to argue about stupid shit that doesn't help anyone and in advertiser friendly ways on advertiser friendly platforms. You know, for our 'safety.'


I don't agree with most of the shit in this vid, especially that this is all some coordinated effort to control people into being slaves, but your comment about 'safety' made me remember this clip, primarily the part about YouTube videos.


View: https://streamable.com/3lljkc

It was definitely a gradual shift, but over the last few years we've seen social media websites with growing influence, growing control over public discourse and expression become emboldened bit by bit to remove what they don't like under the guise of "safety". First they demonetized edgy content, then they removed edgy content, then they removed controversial news and figures who made controversial content, and now they are removing dissenting opinion because its "hate speech" or "misinformation" all in favor of advertiser friendly "content" on advertiser friendly platforms, in the name of 'safety'.

On a different but relate note, the other day i was browsing Vidlii, and stumbled upon a song called "Alabama "GAYmer word"" by Johny Rebel. I saw the thumbnail, a confederate flag, and immediately remembered how a couple years my ago me and my early teen friends (some of them were black) used to ironically sing this song in 9th grade along with other KKK anthems ironically because, back then, super racist shit was something people laughed at online. In fact, the other day I rewatched a 2017 video of Deji (previously known as Comedy Shorts Gamer) react to a racist song about black people and he was slightly triggered by it for comedic effect, but that was it. He said "this is so racist" and started laughing. No one said it was problematic, there wasn't a bunch of drama on twitter, everybody in the comments was joking around and laughing at the reaction, there was nothing dangerous about it. The video even has ads on it.

1663413532781.png



Anyway, I have distinct memories of us going around the halls and singing "I am the grandwizard man, born leader of the ku klux klan", and while it sounds weird to say, I look back at those times fondly. Edgy humor, especially ironic racist humor revolving around these songs was something I remember seeingly regularly on youtube in 2016. It wasn't considered dangerous at the time. After being reminded of them them by vidlii, I went to look up these songs on youtube again, and what do you know they are ALL gone. I remember specifically looking them up on youtube back in the day, but now its as if they were never there. All of the johny rebel songs, all of the KKK songs, all of the moonman songs, even the original upload of the black people song that Deji reacted to in this video is gone.

I just wonder how the frick did we get to this point?

Maybe it's just the sort of media I follow, but I feel like 2022 has been an especially telling year for how fast censorship is being adopted in mainstream/non-political media in the name of 'safety'. It was slow at first, but its very clear its snowballing. It's not like we gave them an inch and they took a mile, its like they took an inch, saw us get mad and still give them our clicks and attention, so they took additional inch after inch after inch until we got to where we are today.
Corporations have set a precedent that a simple claim that something is "dangerous" or "hate speech" is enough to boot someone off their platforms, and now the internet.

- Kiwifarms can get dropped by cloudflare because of "an imminent threat to human life", no notice to the owner, no action to mitigate the threat, and lastly, no proof to back it up.

- Andrew Tate can be banned from YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook within the span of 2 days for "hate speech", "misinformation", "being a dangerous individual/organization". No proof to substantiate the claims, meanwhile they promote rappers who openly sing their murder confessions, and female artists who openly admit to drugging and robbing men.

They don't have to cite or explain what exactly was said or done that falls under "hate speech" And a significant number of average people online think this is ok because it's being done in the name of "safety", creating a safe space for snowflakes and advertisers.
To be honest, I shouldn't be surprised. This is what TV was. The primary source of information to the masses will always be regulated. The only reason we were allowed to express ourselves with basically no bounds online was because, at the time, social media was not the primary means for mainstream access to media. It was fringe, alternative, underground. It wasn't as profitable for brands and corporations to advertise on as it is today and so they had no need to regulate it. Where there is influence and money, there will be forces who seek to control.

That's why its in these smaller underground communities, that you get to express your politically incorrect humor, thoughts, opinions, self, as you once did online.

You guys on agora, on the yesterweb, on saurbraten talk and joke exactly how I remember people talking online when I was a kid. Calling each other faggots, having thoughtful conversations, laughing at offensive jokes. This is what the internet used to be, and what im realizing, still is. It's just been overshadowed by 7 sites and like 2 search engines adopted by the masses.

Perhaps its just better to lay low in this 'underweb' a portion of the clearweb that most people don't visit. Because the more attention you draw to yourself, the more likely corporations and governments will show up to regulate your fun.
 
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consonant

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To be honest, I shouldn't be surprised. This is what TV was. The primary source of information to the masses will always be regulated. The only reason we were allowed to express ourselves with basically no bounds online was because, at the time, social media was not the primary means for mainstream access to media. It was fringe, alternative, underground. It wasn't as profitable for brands and corporations to advertise on as it is today and so they had no need to regulate it. Where there is influence and money, there will be forces who seek to control.
The internet has definitely had a trend of becoming more like TV and it's interested me. I remember thinking about how many youtubers need to avoid swearing or bleep them out and it really puts into perspective how far things have gone. The fact that people's income can come from sites like youtube really changed things as you can't really afford to step out of line.
Perhaps its just better to lay low in this 'underweb' a portion of the clearweb that most people don't visit. Because the more attention you draw to yourself, the more likely corporations and governments will show up to regulate your fun.
I wonder if the darkweb will become more popular as an option too, I remember someone saying that it would and I didn't agree at the time but now I'm thinking about it a little more.
 
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Collision

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I'm, personally, not too worried about new laws in the US. I don't believe the government (federal or state) will really be able exercise much power over what gets published. People try to enforce laws to control speech in the US all the time. It usually ends with the relevant law being gutted (like the Communications Decency Act) or tossed entirely. To me, it seems much more likely that what we know as the Internet today will end up fractured into largely separate networks. There are far too many competing understandings of how technology works and what its acceptable uses are for people to remain compliant with all of it. I think that many countries will opt to simply cut themselves off from countries with incompatible laws rather than allow people to keep playing the, "I'm hosted in the US," card.
 
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handoferis

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The internet has definitely had a trend of becoming more like TV and it's interested me. I remember thinking about how many youtubers need to avoid swearing or bleep them out and it really puts into perspective how far things have gone. The fact that people's income can come from sites like youtube really changed things as you can't really afford to step out of line.

I wonder if the darkweb will become more popular as an option too, I remember someone saying that it would and I didn't agree at the time but now I'm thinking about it a little more.
The swearing thing in particular is really wild to me, as I find swearing is becoming more and more acceptable in recent years, to the point I've seen it in a few news articles from select MSM outlets in the UK.
 
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SolidStateSurvivor

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The internet has definitely had a trend of becoming more like TV and it's interested me.
I used to feel this way, mainly because I first noticed a lot of these larger internet trends in YouTube as well. But then I realized it's even worse than that. The Internet is going the way of industrialized agricultural.

The rise of industrialism at the turn of the 20th century transformed agriculture into a large scale global business. While the companies with major financial backing excelled, small scale farmers still experienced local/regional success. At the very least, they were allowed to merely operate.

But with so much money flowing into industrial agriculture, lobbyist groups formed. Groups that sought to infiltrate policy making in order to one up their completion by passing legislation armed at screwing them over. All the while these lobbyists were selling most of it to the public as for their benefit/own protection.

150304_consumer-internet1.jpg


It's about 2007, the "smartphone revolution" is underway. While a diverse variety of smaller scale websites still manage to bring in decent traffic, social media giants such as FaceBook and Twitter are on the rise.

And once they started to gain a considerable market share, the general operations and standards of the internet in general began to change. On these major sites, wrong think was outlawed, state/corporate propaganda consumption was an integral component to using these sites, much like GMOs and pesticide in the produce at the nationwide grocery chains. And much like the inclusion of these chemicals in the food supply, the algorithms and one sided administration of social media manipulation is rotting the mind and driving people crazy. We are at the point where openly challenging or mocking the propaganda is a bannable offense.

To agricultural lobbyists, small scale farmers and farmer markets are a threat to their bottom line. Attempts are made to make it harder for independent operators. Outlaw the products they can sell, the means in which they grow/raise it, or force them into bankruptcy to seize the land, all done through "legal means" and "good intentions" for the general public.

In the case of the internet this regulation is sold by playing into fears about the rise of "hate groups" and "dangerous conspiracies/misinformation." The narrative framing isn't "are you alright with free speech?" it's "do you support hate speech?" They make their opposition look like extremists by any means. In terms of internet regulation this goes back to the initial "blue ribbon campaign" you've probably seen the 88x31 buttons of on the Geocities archives.

onlineblueribbon.gif


It's using the system to form a noose. It's the exercise of power and influence by a select few running the industry. The natural order for them is to not stop until everything is consolidated.
 
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Cobalt

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It's inevitable that governments will eventually try and regulate the fuck out of the internet. The net by it's nature is just harder to control which is why this process is happening at a snails pace. They don't quite have the tech and the systems in place to fully regulate things. Here in the US we have a right to free speech, expression, press, etc. but I could definitely see it happening in other countries.

The internet has been getting boring and samey for a few years now in my eyes. Might fuck off to Amateur radio or back to the ol' pen and paper or some shit. These little niche forums are cool but all my friends irl hang out on the more mainstream sites and it drives me bonkers how much the shit off those sites lives in their heads.
 
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Ultimately the net will fracture into several sub nets for each legal jurisdiction. The era of America having full control over the net is ending. It'll be like China now, where they have their own set of internet services and tightly regulate access to external extra-judicial services and websites.

That said, controlling the prevailing narrative on the net and the populace in general is quite easy. For evidence I point to the twitter astroturfing campaigns,

twitterBot.jpeg


There's even extensive documentation of the federal government asking Twitter and other sites to censor things they don't like. They are currently involved in a lawsuit over this.

Here is an archived article generally outlining the mess twitter has gotten itself into.

We already live in the censorship era. Only that the federal government asks private corporations to censor on their behalf. Just like it asks private corporations for various privacy violating information.
 
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Dolfin

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The internet has been getting boring and samey for a few years now in my eyes. Might fuck off to Amateur radio or back to the ol' pen and paper or some shit. These little niche forums are cool but all my friends irl hang out on the more mainstream sites and it drives me bonkers how much the shit off those sites lives in their heads.
Same here. Everyone's on FB or TikTok or whatever, and I just do not care about what happens on those sites. The smaller online communities are still interesting, the ones you have to make a conscious decision to read and join. Everything else just feels inane chatter some algorithm felt I'd enjoy, and it's under the watchful eye of mods and various web tracking tools. Going back to letters and paper notes lowers my anxiety about connecting with people.
 
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elia925-6

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Ultimately the net will fracture into several sub nets for each legal jurisdiction. The era of America having full control over the net is ending. It'll be like China now, where they have their own set of internet services and tightly regulate access to external extra-judicial services and websites.

That said, controlling the prevailing narrative on the net and the populace in general is quite easy. For evidence I point to the twitter astroturfing campaigns,

View attachment 37167

There's even extensive documentation of the federal government asking Twitter and other sites to censor things they don't like. They are currently involved in a lawsuit over this.

Here is an archived article generally outlining the mess twitter has gotten itself into.

We already live in the censorship era. Only that the federal government asks private corporations to censor on their behalf. Just like it asks private corporations for various privacy violating information.
The post look the same like someone used 9 different accounts to post them.
 
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ignika98

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I don't agree with most of the shit in this vid, especially that this is all some coordinated effort to control people into being slaves, but your comment about 'safety' made me remember this clip, primarily the part about YouTube videos.


View: https://streamable.com/3lljkc

It was definitely a gradual shift, but over the last few years we've seen social media websites with growing influence, growing control over public discourse and expression become emboldened bit by bit to remove what they don't like under the guise of "safety". First they demonetized edgy content, then they removed edgy content, then they removed controversial news and figures who made controversial content, and now they are removing dissenting opinion because its "hate speech" or "misinformation" all in favor of advertiser friendly "content" on advertiser friendly platforms, in the name of 'safety'.

On a different but relate note, the other day i was browsing Vidlii, and stumbled upon a song called "Alabama "GAYmer word"" by Johny Rebel. I saw the thumbnail, a confederate flag, and immediately remembered how a couple years my ago me and my early teen friends (some of them were black) used to ironically sing this song in 9th grade along with other KKK anthems ironically because, back then, super racist shit was something people laughed at online. In fact, the other day I rewatched a 2017 video of Deji (previously known as Comedy Shorts Gamer) react to a racist song about black people and he was slightly triggered by it for comedic effect, but that was it. He said "this is so racist" and started laughing. No one said it was problematic, there wasn't a bunch of drama on twitter, everybody in the comments was joking around and laughing at the reaction, there was nothing dangerous about it. The video even has ads on it.

View attachment 37086


Anyway, I have distinct memories of us going around the halls and singing "I am the grandwizard man, born leader of the ku klux klan", and while it sounds weird to say, I look back at those times fondly. Edgy humor, especially ironic racist humor revolving around these songs was something I remember seeingly regularly on youtube in 2016. It wasn't considered dangerous at the time. After being reminded of them them by vidlii, I went to look up these songs on youtube again, and what do you know they are ALL gone. I remember specifically looking them up on youtube back in the day, but now its as if they were never there. All of the johny rebel songs, all of the KKK songs, all of the moonman songs, even the original upload of the black people song that Deji reacted to in this video is gone.

I just wonder how the frick did we get to this point?

Maybe it's just the sort of media I follow, but I feel like 2022 has been an especially telling year for how fast censorship is being adopted in mainstream/non-political media in the name of 'safety'. It was slow at first, but its very clear its snowballing. It's not like we gave them an inch and they took a mile, its like they took an inch, saw us get mad and still give them our clicks and attention, so they took additional inch after inch after inch until we got to where we are today.
Corporations have set a precedent that a simple claim that something is "dangerous" or "hate speech" is enough to boot someone off their platforms, and now the internet.

- Kiwifarms can get dropped by cloudflare because of "an imminent threat to human life", no notice to the owner, no action to mitigate the threat, and lastly, no proof to back it up.

- Andrew Tate can be banned from YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook within the span of 2 days for "hate speech", "misinformation", "being a dangerous individual/organization". No proof to substantiate the claims, meanwhile they promote rappers who openly sing their murder confessions, and female artists who openly admit to drugging and robbing men.

They don't have to cite or explain what exactly was said or done that falls under "hate speech" And a significant number of average people online think this is ok because it's being done in the name of "safety", creating a safe space for snowflakes and advertisers.
To be honest, I shouldn't be surprised. This is what TV was. The primary source of information to the masses will always be regulated. The only reason we were allowed to express ourselves with basically no bounds online was because, at the time, social media was not the primary means for mainstream access to media. It was fringe, alternative, underground. It wasn't as profitable for brands and corporations to advertise on as it is today and so they had no need to regulate it. Where there is influence and money, there will be forces who seek to control.

That's why its in these smaller underground communities, that you get to express your politically incorrect humor, thoughts, opinions, self, as you once did online.

You guys on agora, on the yesterweb, on saurbraten talk and joke exactly how I remember people talking online when I was a kid. Calling each other faggots, having thoughtful conversations, laughing at offensive jokes. This is what the internet used to be, and what im realizing, still is. It's just been overshadowed by 7 sites and like 2 search engines adopted by the masses.

Perhaps its just better to lay low in this 'underweb' a portion of the clearweb that most people don't visit. Because the more attention you draw to yourself, the more likely corporations and governments will show up to regulate your fun.

It's kinda funny to me that you talk about the internet in 2016 as if those were "the good old days", when from my perspective that year was the start of the decline. That was around the time where youtube started to really shape into the creative sinkhole it is today, where every creator, big or small, creates videos in a near identical way to try and please "the algorithm". Where twitter REALLY started to get out of hand with the whole tumblr exodus. Where companies first started to try and regulate adult content online.

I'm not saying things weren't better back then than they are now, but from where I stand those were far from the glory days of the internet.
 
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Shantotto

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It's kinda funny to me that you talk about the internet in 2016 as if those were "the good old days", when from my perspective that year was the start of the decline. That was around the time where youtube started to really shape into the creative sinkhole it is today, where every creator, big or small, creates videos in a near identical way to try and please "the algorithm". Where twitter REALLY started to get out of hand with the whole tumblr exodus. Where companies first started to try and regulate adult content online.

I'm not saying things weren't better back then than they are now, but from where I stand those were far from the glory days of the internet.
Well of course the good old days are relative. I wasn't too heavy on the internet in 2008 or 2000, or the 90s and such but from the little bits I've seen I could totally understand them being 'the good old days' for other people. My post here isn't about 2016 being the good old days, its about how far I've observed censorship has progressed since then.

The force to please algorithms, to appease brands, to compromise creativity and integrity to generate more revenue, has been progressing since far before my time on the internet, possibly even the inception of the thing.

But with YouTube in particular, it's one thing to see continual policy changes, people getting banned, videos getting taken down over time and another to log in one day and see a whole genre of videos frequently used for comedic humor, cease to exist, as if they were never there to begin with. It's a small thing that really puts into perspective how much change has compounded over the last 6 years.
 
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It's kinda funny to me that you talk about the internet in 2016 as if those were "the good old days", when from my perspective that year was the start of the decline. That was around the time where youtube started to really shape into the creative sinkhole it is today, where every creator, big or small, creates videos in a near identical way to try and please "the algorithm". Where twitter REALLY started to get out of hand with the whole tumblr exodus. Where companies first started to try and regulate adult content online.

I'm not saying things weren't better back then than they are now, but from where I stand those were far from the glory days of the internet.
From what I have seen in the forum, pretty much everyone here has a different idea of when exactly the decline began.

I have also observed the very same thing when it comes to RuneScape, a 20 years old MMORPG that received 900+ updates.

Literally everyone had their own definition of what consisted of the golden age (and by extension when the decline started).

I am probably going to sound like an heretic, but hear me out.

Maybe people can only support a certain threshold of change and after a certain point, believe that the internet strayed too far from what their mind defined as the values of the internet in their minds.

Perphaps the current internet is not "bad" per say, but rather just extremly different than the image of it that is anchored in our head.

While I do personally believe that many aspect of the current web are extremely bad, we tend to focus and all the negative things rather than the positive ones. As a result, it's hard to objectively judge things due to anchoring.

Anyway, I do really member what will be the things that people will be nostalgic about regarding the current era. It's hard to tell.
 

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I am probably going to sound like an heretic, but hear me out.

Maybe people can only support a certain threshold of change and after a certain point, believe that the internet strayed too far from what their mind defined as the values of the internet in their minds.

Perphaps the current internet is not "bad" per say, but rather just extremly different than the image of it that is anchored in our head.
To me this is something I try to keep in mind. I've acknowledged to myself that how I view the internet now is like a rug got pulled from underneath me because I've been on it for a while but now it feels like I can't relate to anyone else, even though I'm not even old or anything. I can accept that I see most people online as retards now and probably vice versa but I think the amount of control that grows on the internet is actually something to worry about.
 
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I can accept that I see most people online as retards now and probably vice versa but I think the amount of control that grows on the internet is actually something to worry about.
The amount of control on the internet nowadays is definitively a cause for concern. While it is true that what we perceive as the '"true internet", is very subjective, it is important to analyze why we dislike a certain things.

A similar example of this would be modern gaming. From what I have gathered, the new generation has zero problems with dlcs, battlepasses and microtransaction. Some argue (often older gamners) will argue that gaming was better without those things - but that is is a subjective statement. That being said, there a definitively some problems with such monetizations system, so I believe that tryig to analyze things individually is a good approach.

Rather than saying X hobby was good in the past, we should be saying that Y thing problematic.
 

handoferis

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The amount of control on the internet nowadays is definitively a cause for concern. While it is true that what we perceive as the '"true internet", is very subjective, it is important to analyze why we dislike a certain things.

A similar example of this would be modern gaming. From what I have gathered, the new generation has zero problems with dlcs, battlepasses and microtransaction. Some argue (often older gamners) will argue that gaming was better without those things - but that is is a subjective statement. That being said, there a definitively some problems with such monetizations system, so I believe that tryig to analyze things individually is a good approach.

Rather than saying X hobby was good in the past, we should be saying that Y thing problematic.
I mean, if you grow up not knowing any different, of course you're not going to have a problem with it.
 
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The amount of control on the internet nowadays is definitively a cause for concern. While it is true that what we perceive as the '"true internet", is very subjective, it is important to analyze why we dislike a certain things.

A similar example of this would be modern gaming. From what I have gathered, the new generation has zero problems with dlcs, battlepasses and microtransaction. Some argue (often older gamners) will argue that gaming was better without those things - but that is is a subjective statement. That being said, there a definitively some problems with such monetizations system, so I believe that tryig to analyze things individually is a good approach.

Rather than saying X hobby was good in the past, we should be saying that Y thing problematic.
Problem is that inflation has obliterated into oblivion the value of the dollar. That $60 you used to pay, doesn't carry as far in terms of return on investment. Lets not kid ourselves that people write games for fun, sure some do, but AAA games are primarily a money maker. Simply put, those DLCs, battlepasses, and microtransactions are needed to help keep the games at a base price of $60. Sure you could raise base game prices, but then you would have less sales. It seems that the price is now stuck in time.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvPkAYT6B1Q


Rise-and-Fall-of-the-USD-64c2.jpg
 
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manpaint

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Problem is that inflation has obliterated into oblivion the value of the dollar. That $60 you used to pay, doesn't carry as far in terms of return on investment. Lets not kid ourselves that people write games for fun, sure some do, but AAA games are primarily a money maker. Simply put, those DLCs, battlepasses, and microtransactions are needed to help keep the games at a base price of $60. Sure you could raise base game prices, but then you would have less sales. It seems that the price is now stuck in time.
My point exactly. I believe that most "old gamers" think that the current state of gaming is purely caused by greed. That being said, some argue that it's a natural progression of things as devloppement cost gets higher.

What I am trying to say, is that most people try to draw a line between "the good old days" and "the beggining of the end". I believe this is a wrong way to approaches things as what consititue "the gold old days" is extremly subjective. As cited earlier, the fact that every Agora user has a different date for what constitute "the beggining of the end" proves this.

I think that things inside "the framework" should be judged individually. Rather than saying "the internet went downhill in 2012" a better way to look at things would be "modern social media with algorithms are bad because..." because in the end, social media is just one part of the framework (in this case, the internet).
 

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