Is God Omnipotent?

[GENOSAD]

In Hinduism the Absolute is all. It is the Universe(s) and everything in it. The way it works is that there are deities, which are just it, being responsible for certain tasks and laws.

You might ask something very dumb like "But if it is the Universe and the Absolute why doesn't it do everything?" You must understand that by creating different deities and Gods, this is the way how the Absolute handles everything. Like in a company there is the CEO, Managers etc.

>But muh absolute surely handle it all, since he is so great and powerful, he wouldn't need other deities.

Again, this is how it works, either be a retard about it or accept it.

There is Brahman, the creator of this Universe (theres many different Brahmans and many different universes), Brahman created the solar systems, they are each governed by an Indra. Then there are various deities to represent various aspects. Like Kali, in which age we live now. We live in the Kali Yuga, where the attributes of the Goddess Kali are predominant and permeating. And so on.

In the Bhagavad-Gita Krsna, the highest personification and an Avatar of the Absolute, said very clearly that he is in everyone and everything. That the gods (devas) are all just him in the end. Each have their own free will, just as humans or aliens from other planets. And that by worshipping the Devas you will eventually reach him. Furthermore, even by worshipping the non personal gods you reach him (like scientists do).

>But why bad thing happen

Because you don't do anything about it. Simple as. Also what is bad? Theres no Good and Evil to begin with

> But muh innocent babies dying

What are you doing against it? You let them die. Krsna is in you, so his power can work through you. If you don't then how can he save them?
But the gods do sometimes intervene. Either because of dharma or because they are being asked to in devotion. No god is going to fight for you. Even in the Kurukshetra war Krsna was passive, letting Arjuna be his tool. If Arjuna does not wanted to fight then Krsna wouldn't also and vice versa. This is Karma. And no there is not good or bad karma either. Stop thinking dualistic. Life is death and rebirth. Cyclical. And a soul can not die anyway. Your body dies, but you are not your body.

But I get it, its so much easier being a little faggot sitting at home or in church all day and making everyone else except you responsible for the bad things in world. We call this "Sudern" here in Austria. It is derived from the word "Sud", the remnants of brewed coffee. Stinking, bad tasting and a waste product of something great. Something to mediate about.

If anything, the Absolute might even think you are ok with all this. All it sees it that you complain, complain, complain and never do anything about it. Like the little bitch you are. He might as well think you like to complain and fantasise.

>But if he is so Absolute he must see my thoughts and know I want to change what I complain about

I also fantasise about being a slave and in a femdom relationship yet it doesn't happen and In reality I probably wouldn't like it. Otherwise I would seek out a woman thats into this.

Yes of course he sees this, makes him rather confused that you still don't do anything about it. But so are humans, and they have free will. The gods also have plays, and the absolute in the avatar of krsna started out being born from a human woman. On purpose, only with limited powers so he can see how humans act and behave around him. Interacting with them in a human way. "Undercover boss like".

Kinda puts the Simulation Theory in a new light right? How many times did you play a game you beat to death with self imposed restrictions? Or mods to alter aspects? Or larp as a Farmer in Skyrim? You can anytime open up the console and get every item in the game, every riches., resurrect anyone and spam 1000 demons. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't.

>but muh prayers

Are taken in this form from hermetic high magic. Occasionally they do work for christians, but more of a blind chicken finding a corn. Yes because the laws of the universe still work for someone as disgusting and deplorable as you unfortunately.
Theres detailed rituals on how to call on gods (suprasensible powers) to help you, even with menial tasks such as curing diseases. People that know how to do this existed even in europe, they ended up persecuted and burned. Thanks to you christcucks. So in a sense the poor poor baby dying from leukemia is your fault too. You could read up on Paracelsus, but you rather won't.

Indian tech support with another W to solve all my problems. Gods bless you.

 

[Some_porcupine]

TIL this thread

here some evil one

 

[☯змія☯]

TIL this thread

here some evil one

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Bro's having a mental breakdown over spam


hey god, watch this

 

[Sketch Relics]

In that case, why accept any claims of his omnipotence in the first place? After all, it's still fallible men who claimed such.

Exactly, even if God interacted with humanity in the ancient past, that information is still being filtered through several thousand years of human history, which wasn't well kept until about 500 years ago.

Then, assuming the other two omnis, he's not all-good. He's simply "mostly good", because he would minimize the evil humans experience to come to their full potential the same way a parent does.

Why is it necessary to jump through these hoops to justify all three in the one? Why does the Christian mindset demand you cannot split God and Jesus into a duality? This doesn't even require God be evil, he can simply not be "all good" and leave that to Jesus.

It's unsurprising the conclusions the Gnostics came to after serious thought, because a split is the only logical conclusion.

Actually, that's probably the most correct interpretation. IIRC even in the Bible God isn't depicted as perfect as he regrets and apologizes for his actions at the end of the story of Noah's Ark.

 

[Some_porcupine]

Exactly, even if God interacted with humanity in the ancient past, that information is still being filtered through several thousand years of human history, which wasn't well kept until about 500 years ago.



Actually, that's probably the most correct interpretation. IIRC even in the Bible God isn't depicted as perfect as he regrets and apologizes for his actions at the end of the story of Noah's Ark.

god in old testament - uncanny, dank mr incredible
vs
god in new testament - incredible/mid mr incredible

 

[Isaiah.exe]

So, one neuroscientist/psychiatrist/philosopher, almost a wizard, from Scotland recently wrote a book that sheds new light on this centuries-old problem. He spent 20 years writing and researching, and has about 200 pages of references. His science is sound, but he caused a shitstorm in the scientific community because of the implications...

He's been researching differences between people who had a stroke in the left vs. the right hemisphere. But before you discard this idea as '60s pop psychology trash, know that he completely distances himself from the logical left vs. creative right distinction. Both hemispheres can do everything (language, orientation, perception...), but there is a difference in the way information is processed.

People who had a stroke in their right hemisphere acted almost the same. They could speak and function in the world, they just had trouble understanding context and getting the whole picture. They also wouldn't be able to see Doge in the picture below:

(They could only see a bunch of scattered letters: Y, M, $, etc.)

To see this Doge, a movement to the whole is needed; it's called Gestalt or seeing the forest even amongst the trees.

ON THE OTHER HAND, people with a stroke in their left hemisphere couldn't speak, and they experienced all things in the world as being living creatures (even the Sun and the Moon)

This asymmetrical brain is standard in nature. For example, birds use the left hemisphere to zoom in on their food, while activating the right one for holistic awareness in order to spot predators. But in humans, it functions more like this:

(I use ASCII as protection against the left hemisphere gang.)

All of this "can God create the stone he can't lift" is just linear, propositional thinking that has nothing to do with God.

When old boy Wittgenstein said, "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent," this is exactly what he meant. He also used to masturbate at the front in WWI, thinking about mathematical problems, as we found out in his recently published diaries, but that's a topic for another day.

 

[timelinker14]

This, however, is defeated by the old "unliftable rock" paradox. If an omnipotent being can make a boulder so heavy that even the being cannot lift it, then lifting the rock is something it cannot do. Hence, it isn't omnipotent.

Except it's not thought. The example you are describing is basically the same thing you said previously. It's basically the same as the one sentence saying "this sentence is true" and another sentence "that sentence is false". Same thing.

 

[Ross_Я]

you probably also have a name for your car, and think it has feelings.

Hey now, tread fucking carefully.

 

[vulonkaaz]

I asked god directly

 

[MORPHEUS]

In my high school days, I enjoyed watching a lot of le "epic atheist takedowns" as a small act of rebellion, as I was an atheist attending a Catholic school at the time. These days I don't concern myself with religion or the absence thereof (although I still hesitate to call myself agnostic), so I've been rethinking a lot of the arguments I used to hold as "proof" against God. One in particular is the question of his omnipotentce. The question I'll be asking is based off of this video by Philosophy: Engineered! (formerly AntiCitizenX)


To sum up (because this guy's frankly a douche and you might want to save yourself half an hour), the three (main) models of omnipotence all seem to fall flat in their own ways.
The absolutist model fails in the face of logical inconsistencies. Asking an omnipotent being to create a married bachelor, for example, cannot be fulfilled because a bachelor is defined by the fact that he isn't married.
A more revised model is one which posits that an omnipotent being can fulfill any request that is logically possible. This, however, is defeated by the old "unliftable rock" paradox. If an omnipotent being can make a boulder so heavy that even the being cannot lift it, then lifting the rock is something it cannot do. Hence, it isn't omnipotent.
Finally, there's the model which posits that omnipotence is the power for a being to do anything within its natural power. But then, with this model of omnipotence, literally every living being is omnipotent, so it fails to define omnipotence as anything meaningful or unique to a single god.

There are also lines from the Bible that atheists like to use as a sort of "gotcha!" for claims of God's omnipotence: Those positing that God is incapable of lying. Not unwilling, but incapable.
Titus 1:2 -- ...in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began.
Hebrews 6:18 -- ...it is impossible for God to lie.

For a long time, I used this argument to fuel the belief that Christians are deluded, but when I thought about it more recently, I began to rethink the "omnipotence paradox" and put the failings of omnipotence in context with God's inability to lie. I don't think it would be sacrilegious or blasphemous at all to say that God is simply not omnipotent, but rather that he is powerful in a way that no living being can match. Sure, maybe he does exist outside of logic and human comprehension, and is therefore omnipotent in a way that we have no hope of understanding, but what kind of answer is that outside of a cop-out? As cool as the idea might be to some of us, it's little more than a facetious excuse that dismisses any critical thinking with a hand-wave.

So, what do you fellas think? Personally, I don't mind the prospect of God existing as someone who's just really powerful, yet not omnipotent, and I don't see it contradicting anything said in the Bible. Any claims of "all things are possible" may simply be exaggerations or misunderstandings made by the fallible men who wrote the holy texts, or else they meant to refer to power outside of man's ability,

I think the problem with some of these arguments is that they assume is a being in the same sense that we are. God is not though, he is outside of space and time, but yet able to effect it. The boulder argument is impossible because all created things fall short in the glory of God.

"it is more exact to say that the intrinsically impossible is incapable of production, than to say that God cannot produce it." St. Thomas (Summa I, Q. xxv, a. 3)

"To include the contradictory within the range of omnipotence, as does the Calvinist Vorstius, is to acknowledge the absurd as an object of the Divine intellect, and nothingness as an object of the Divine will and power." - J. A. MCHUGH

A few points to make this clear:

1. Actions Contradicting God's Nature:
   • God cannot sin, as doing so would be incompatible with His perfection and attributes.
   • The decrees of God, once made, cannot be reversed, ensuring consistency with His eternal wisdom and will.
   • Creation of an absolutely best creature or greatest number of creatures is impossible due to the inexhaustible nature of Divine power.
2. Logically Contradictory Elements:
   • God cannot create things like a square circle or an infinite creature, as they involve mutually repellent elements.
   • God cannot effect the non-existence of actual past events, as it would contradict their occurrence

I hope this clears it up!

 

[MORPHEUS]

The opposite actually

Exodus 20:5

You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

Exodus 34:14
—for you shall not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God—


Deuteronomy 4:23-24
So watch yourselves, that you do not forget the covenant of the Lord your God which He made with you, and make for yourselves a graven image in the form of anything against which the Lord your God has commanded you. For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.



and others.

How is this not benevolent? God is jealous of our love for he loves us infinitely and perfectly. If our love is spent on material things or on the worship of false idols than of course he is upset,

 

[how to drain your dragon]

seems like a lot of chuntering tbh.

you should all join Tientology, all you have to do is wear the tie.

 

[GENOSAD]

A few points to make this clear:

1. Actions Contradicting God's Nature:
   • God cannot sin, as doing so would be incompatible with His perfection and attributes.
   • The decrees of God, once made, cannot be reversed, ensuring consistency with His eternal wisdom and will.
   • Creation of an absolutely best creature or greatest number of creatures is impossible due to the inexhaustible nature of Divine power.
2. Logically Contradictory Elements:
   • God cannot create things like a square circle or an infinite creature, as they involve mutually repellent elements.
   • God cannot effect the non-existence of actual past events, as it would contradict their occurrence

I hope this clears it up!

I gotta say, the only thing this clears up is that nobody wants to admit that the answer is "no." Instead of saying "Well, since His power is limited by His goodness, it seems that He isn't all-powerful, after all," they'd rather move the goalpost and say, "Well, actually, here's what 'omnipotent' really means..." In doing so, they only end up devaluing omnipotence itself. Instead of being unbound, limitless power, it just becomes a series of asterisks that bind and limit omnipotence. Just take the L, for Christ's sake.

 

[Some_porcupine]

what i said in "science is modern religion" thread - dissection ad absurdum, nothing is real and just our brain making contradictions - then, is brain for it to be, or just simply made, without plan?

 

[gameless]

I would like to raise an interesting question I heard regarding Gods infinite knowledge. It goes something like: "If God is all-knowing, he knew the destiny of each individual human (whether it was going to live a life of sin and pay for it in hell, or whether it was going to go down the right path and be with Him in heaven) before they were even created. So can we even say we have free will since God has always had a plan for us?"

 

[Mamisu]

If I tell my child "You could get killed if you play in the street but you have the free will to do so" and then my child plays in the street and gets run over by a car, am I a good parent?

If I pick them up from an active road despite them kicking and screaming, am I evil for denying their free will to kill themselves?

You're insinuating that god gives no alternative to playing in the street. Sorry I'm so late to the thread

 

[Mamisu]

The alternative given to the child in that scenario would be: "but if you don't play in the street, I'll buy you as much candy as you want."

 

[Mamisu]

I would like to raise an interesting question I heard regarding Gods infinite knowledge. It goes something like: "If God is all-knowing, he knew the destiny of each individual human (whether it was going to live a life of sin and pay for it in hell, or whether it was going to go down the right path and be with Him in heaven) before they were even created. So can we even say we have free will since God has always had a plan for us?"
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Just because god knows I'm gonna reply to this post, doesn't mean I didn't make the choice to do so.

 

[gameless]

Just because god knows I'm gonna reply to this post, doesn't mean I didn't make the choice to do so.

Yeah, but He created you with full knowledge and intention that one day you were going to replying to this post, just like He knew and intended a sinner to go to hell in His infinite wisdom and power.

 

[kodeb8]

I'm not a Christian but I do hold some spiritual beliefs. I think it's possible some omnipotent being created the universe, but whatever it is is probably beyond our comprehension and is apathetic to our existence.