Kiwifarms under attack | Veteran of the Psychic Wars | The Internet is for EVERYONE.

[Hadrian Hardrada Cicero]

I'm curious how you would describe what "really" goes on there?

Thankfully I have a server on discord where me and my friends (non-agora road members mind you) can post screencaps of what other people in other communities have said. Here's a few from the farms themselves.

(From the Kiwi Farms Minecraft Server thread. Sides gone funniest shit I have ever read. They ended up eating each other up by the 30th thread because they got pissed off at null for reasons, I need to read up again.)

(From the Historytube thread, an offtopic thread that talks about people who make history videos)

(Last two are from the day when it revealed that Chris Chan diddled with his mom and then wrote a letter to Null comparing himself as Jesus Christ and Null as Judas both of which have their threads here and here)

Look i mean, i realize i'm not helping my case by saying this, but reading that site makes me extremely uncomfortable. When i do go lurk there, from some perverse impulse, i always need to quit the internet for a couple of days afterwards. Even if it were reachable, i still wouldn't want to go hunting for the worst examples so i could bring them back and show you concretely what i'm talking about. We all know what's there. If you don't find it that offensive personally then i'm happy for you, but most people do, and none of those people should *have* to give KF a platform or provide them services.

People say things on Agora that make me uncomfortable too, which is why i like it, but the overall ethos of the site is totally different. Kiwifarms' whole point is to push limits and be entertaining to edgelords who like to pick on mentally afflicted people. I'm sure it has users who are decent and some interesting threads but i feel like it's obviously in its own category in some respects.

This post literally reminds me of this meme when I used to lurk on /pol/ three-soon-four years ago. I legitimately don't see a difference between Agora Road and Kiwifarms (And any other internet community for that matter if people are allowed to talk about internet personalities). We had our fair share of edge lords here who have time and time again try to use Agora as a base to spread their political bullshit or internet vigilante bullshit (Hell months back the site came under attack by a fucking pot head from Mexico who got mad that the owner was telling him to stop derailing threads that had nothing to do with his rambles.) and all of them usually get banned off by @IlluminatiPirate or any other of our lovely staff here. Hell, I clearly remember there being a Lolcow thread on here but died after a while. Here, I'll get it for you folks if you want to. It's about four pages long.

The Lolcow Thread

I couldn't find this discussion on the site already, so I figured I'd go ahead and get it started. Any of my fellow terminally-online individuals have some favorite lolcows? I think lolcow farming is a quintessential part of internet culture, despite the new corporate culture trying to take...

forum.agoraroad.com

Overall, despite me sounding super antagonistic to you or whatever, I'm just being honest with you and what I personally think. I don't think I have anything to add here other than repeat what I said on here but seriously man, I think you should just step away from the internet in general and find something to do in your community man. It's clearly affecting how you think.

In any event, I would be interested in hearing more (perhaps in a separate thread) about how you feel so uncomfortable viewing certain information on the web that you feel you need to go offline for a couple days. I've seen many people on Agora Road post about a need to go offline but the feeling is totally alien to me. I've been browsing the web since I was 7 or 8 years-old and I don't think I've ever felt so utterly repulsed by anything that I needed to disconnect myself.

I feel like this would go deeper into the individual themselves to the point of personal information. I feel like you two should rather talk it over in Personal Messages.

 

[gwen]

Thankfully I have a server on discord where me and my friends (non-agora road members mind you) can post screencaps of what other people in other communities have said. Here's a few from the farms themselves.

View attachment 36635
View attachment 36636
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(From the Kiwi Farms Minecraft Server thread. Sides gone funniest shit I have ever read. They ended up eating each other up by the 30th thread because they got pissed off at null for reasons, I need to read up again.)
View attachment 36638

View attachment 36639
(From the Historytube thread, an offtopic thread that talks about people who make history videos)
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View attachment 36643
View attachment 36644View attachment 36645
(Last two are from the day when it revealed that Chris Chan diddled with his mom and then wrote a letter to Null comparing himself as Jesus Christ and Null as Judas both of which have their threads here and here)



This post literally reminds me of this meme when I used to lurk on /pol/ three-soon-four years ago. I legitimately don't see a difference between Agora Road and Kiwifarms (And any other internet community for that matter if people are allowed to talk about internet personalities). We had our fair share of edge lords here who have time and time again try to use Agora as a base to spread their political bullshit or internet vigilante bullshit (Hell months back the site came under attack by a fucking pot head from Mexico who got mad that the owner was telling him to stop derailing threads that had nothing to do with his rambles.) and all of them usually get banned off by @IlluminatiPirate or any other of our lovely staff here. Hell, I clearly remember there being a Lolcow thread on here but died after a while. Here, I'll get it for you folks if you want to. It's about four pages long.

The Lolcow Thread

I couldn't find this discussion on the site already, so I figured I'd go ahead and get it started. Any of my fellow terminally-online individuals have some favorite lolcows? I think lolcow farming is a quintessential part of internet culture, despite the new corporate culture trying to take...

forum.agoraroad.com

Overall, despite me sounding super antagonistic to you or whatever, I'm just being honest with you and what I personally think. I don't think I have anything to add here other than repeat what I said on here but seriously man, I think you should just step away from the internet in general and find something to do in your community man. It's clearly affecting how you think.



I feel like this would go deeper into the individual themselves to the point of personal information. I feel like you two should rather talk it over in Personal Messages.

I don't feel like you're being antagonistic. Thanks for taking the time to answer. I'm actually not very online at all, most chan culture etc goes totally over my head (eg. idk what that meme means), and maybe that's why the kind of talk that seems funny to you seems cruel and upsetting or just unintelligible to me, idk. I think that makes me the normal one though.

Anyway there's been people asking me to explain my opinion that Kiwifarms is toxic, which i'm not trying to convince you of if you disagree. And also a lot of abstract talk about internet infrastructure and US law that i agree touches on some real problems but that i don't think is ultimately relevant here. Really the only explanation i've heard for why Cloudflare wasn't within its rights is that what they did is potentially a violation of a service contract they had with Kiwifarms. I guess there's potentially something to that. Is it being litigated in any way? I also find it hard to believe that if Cloudflare's response had been to wait until the contract lapsed and then just decline to renew it, then that would have appeased Kiwifarms' advocates. Am i wrong about that?

 

[Hadrian Hardrada Cicero]

and maybe that's why the kind of talk that seems funny to you seems cruel and upsetting or just unintelligible to me, idk. I think that makes me the normal one though.

Humor is inherently negative, but it serves as a coping mechanism and is part of human nature. Now granted there are some jokes that one would feel may have crossed some lines, but people should retain the right to laugh even if the subject matter makes people feel uncomfortable or other negative feelings.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knIroVvPZU4

 

[handoferis]

I don't feel like you're being antagonistic. Thanks for taking the time to answer. I'm actually not very online at all, most chan culture etc goes totally over my head (eg. idk what that meme means), and maybe that's why the kind of talk that seems funny to you seems cruel and upsetting or just unintelligible to me, idk. I think that makes me the normal one though.

Anyway there's been people asking me to explain my opinion that Kiwifarms is toxic, which i'm not trying to convince you of if you disagree. And also a lot of abstract talk about internet infrastructure and US law that i agree touches on some real problems but that i don't think is ultimately relevant here. Really the only explanation i've heard for why Cloudflare wasn't within its rights is that what they did is potentially a violation of a service contract they had with Kiwifarms. I guess there's potentially something to that. Is it being litigated in any way? I also find it hard to believe that if Cloudflare's response had been to wait until the contract lapsed and then just decline to renew it, then that would have appeased Kiwifarms' advocates. Am i wrong about that?

fwiw Cloudflare haven't violated the contract at all, it was written like most SaaS contracts to allow discontinuation of service at any time for any reason.

 

[Shantotto]

and none of those people should *have* to give KF a platform or provide them services.

People say things on Agora that make me uncomfortable too, which is why i like it, but the overall ethos of the site is totally different. Kiwifarms' whole point is to push limits and be entertaining to edgelords who like to pick on mentally afflicted people. I'm sure it has users who are decent and some interesting threads but i feel like it's obviously in its own category in some respects.

I think there is a difference between providing a platform and protecting someone from being illegally taken out. It's perfectly understandable to not provide a platform to ideas you find morally reprehensible, but does that mean for instance that if someone wanted to walk into the home of a person who you found morally reprehensible and murder them and they called 911, that the police should not fulfill their duty in showing up to the scene and trying to stop the murder, simply because they don't like the victim?

I mean Mathew Prince's own statement two days before he did a complete 180 was

Some argue that we should terminate these services to content we find reprehensible so that others can launch attacks to knock it offline. That is the equivalent argument in the physical world that the fire department shouldn't respond to fires in the homes of people who do not possess sufficient moral character. Both in the physical world and online, that is a dangerous precedent, and one that is over the long term most likely to disproportionately harm vulnerable and marginalized communities.

src: https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflares-abuse-policies-and-approach/

 

[SolidStateSurvivor]

Looks like they're going for full on un-personing.

Kiwifarms won't be the end of this, nor were they the start, to the people adamantly pushing for corporate backed censorship, nothing will ever be enough.

They have made it more than clear that should you not believe the narrative, should you dare ridicule the propganda, then there WILL be consequences.

Do not forget that these people want you broke, dead, your kids raped and brainwashed, and they think it's funny.

 

[gwen]

I think there is a difference between providing a platform and protecting someone from being illegally taken out. It's perfectly understandable to not provide a platform to ideas you find morally reprehensible, but does that mean for instance that if someone wanted to walk into the home of a person who you found morally reprehensible and murder them and they called 911, that the police should not fulfill their duty in showing up to the scene and trying to stop the murder, simply because they don't like the victim?

I mean Mathew Prince's own statement two days before he did a complete 180 was




src: https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflares-abuse-policies-and-approach/

I get that analogy but don't buy it 100%.

• The distinction between providing a platform and providing neutral security services seems like a formality in this case. If DDOS protection is truly mandatory for a high-profile website then how is it meaningfully different from hosting or DNS service?
• The moral equivalence between someone losing their home or their life due to inaction by emergency services, on the one hand, versus on the other hand, a forum going down after losing DDOS protection due to the repeated real-world harmful actions of its users, seems extremely shallow to me.
• The fact that Cloudflare was protecting Kiwifarms against specifically illegal activity, IMO is strongly counterbalanced by the fact that Kiwifarms functioned as a staging ground for other illegal activity, of an arguably much worse sort. Null's attempts to limit the site's legal exposure by keeping explicit talk about doxxing & harassment off of the forum may have worked to constrain law enforcement, but there's no reason that should fool a private actor. Anyone could see it was happening as a direct result of the talk on the forum. Although like i said i prefer not to spend too much time on Kiwifarms, so please correct me if i have the wrong idea about this.

I can understand why the Cloudflare guy made the original statement as a matter of principle -- as people have pointed out, his company is in the unenviable position of being a private enterprise that's indispensable to the modern internet, and he seems to take that responsibility seriously -- but i can also see why he would reverse it afterwards.

This has been an interesting discussion, thanks everyone. FWIW i wasn't cheering for them to get dropped, even though i'm obviously not upset about it.

Looks like they're going for full on un-personing.

Oof, this does seem kinda bad though, if true.

 

[handoferis]

Looks like they're going for full on un-personing.

Now this is the most concerning thing I've seen in this entire thread.

I was always suspicious of all this ridiculous 2FA junk becoming mandatory and I guess we're seeing the reason now. 2FA does not actually improve security all that much, especially via SMS which is fundamentally a vulnerable communication method - and gullible morons, who arguably 2FA is supposed to protect, are still too stupid to not just casually give up their tokens to attackers. I remember when my bank introduced this shit and fundamentally made my account less secure, cause I went from a complex password that only existed in my head to the same thing plus a stupid compromisable token generator (I left bank). We've all got tiny little spy devices, we ought to switch to biometrics for this kinda shit. At least The Man can't steal my fingerprints.

At best it's bullshit panacea to make fucking retards (both users and corporate agile mans) feel "safer" while being no better off whatsoever, at worst it's a way to sneakily delete people from existence without having to take any responsibility for it yourself. Ohhhh, you can't get your tokens? Guess you're a fucking frauder! Go to fuck hell, fakeman!

 

[Andy Kaufman]

the culture's immune system fighting back against the tumor.

a dozen transsexuals ddosing KF isn't "culture fighting back". It's just one cesspool dripping into the next.

 

[IlluminatiPirate]

Keffals maybe getting sued. It will never end

View: https://twitter.com/NobleAtlas88/status/1569107931400146944?s=19


View: https://twitter.com/nicholasdeorio/status/1568758272714502146?s=09

 

[handoferis]

Keffals maybe getting sued. It will never end

View: https://twitter.com/NobleAtlas88/status/1569107931400146944?s=19


View: https://twitter.com/nicholasdeorio/status/1568758272714502146?s=09

hope he wins. these types of gibbering twitterwrecks could do with a bit of putting in their place.

 

[Hadrian Hardrada Cicero]

Keffals maybe getting sued. It will never end

View: https://twitter.com/NobleAtlas88/status/1569107931400146944?s=19


View: https://twitter.com/nicholasdeorio/status/1568758272714502146?s=09

View: https://youtu.be/P3ALwKeSEYs

 

[Ronin]

what's up with kiwifarms.net

thing about http://uquusqsaaad66cvub4473csdu4uu7ahxou3zqc35fpw5d4ificedzyqd.onion, it gives error "429 Too Many Requests" but uquusqsaaad66cvub4473csdu4uu7ahxou3zqc35fpw5d4ificedzyqd.onion/forums/lolcows.16 for example works.

 

[Collision]

what's up with kiwifarms.net

The message is pretty straight forward. You're requesting a coffee but kiwifarms.net is a teapot. They may simply be temporarily out of coffee though because I'm getting a 503 instead of 418.

 

[Shantotto]

insha'Allah

 

[manpaint]

This isnt possible because of barriers to entry. You will always be using someone else's platform whether that's DDoS protection or payment processors. Null wrote an article about this on ZeroHedge called "where the sidewalk ends". Ill link it below but the most important section is this part:

View attachment 36646

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

My programming forbids me to comment on the Kiwifarm situation, but I will say that I never realized how much infrastructure the internet relied on.

It is my belief that if something is wrong, change is pretty much impossible and your only option to create something that supercede the original. That being said, creating a new internet seems pretty much impossible.

 

[EzzyCrafts]

the internet should've been self hosted from the beginning. how tf does domain registering work and why can't we just host one ourselves

 

[consonant]

Possibly. Counterpoint: you happen to dislike the antagonists in this story, so you have an inflated sense of the threat they pose.

This is a very funny quote because it can be perfectly used against yourself

 

[consonant]

Well i hear you, but fundamentally a big private company is still composed of the people who work for it. You're saying those people should be required to violate their own principles if the company is big and important enough? Where does *that* end exactly, with employees not even allowed to quit or else they're violating someone else's free speech?

You overestimate how much individuals actually matter in a company, in most large companies you're probably already violating your own principles. (at least the issue here was big enough to cause a protest which is an exception, usually it doesn't matter if you don't want to create something in your company that'll abuse human rights, especially if they're US human rights)
Large private companies with control don't need sympathy, in fact there used to be trustbusts when companies had too much of it but the US is run by people with their fingers in their ass so it doesn't happen as much anymore.

Keffals maybe getting sued. It will never end

I've been wondering this whole time why they haven't tried legal action if the shit Keffals has said about them wasn't true. If they succeed it'd be huge.

 

[Collision]

I've been wondering this whole time why they haven't tried legal action if the shit Keffals has said about them wasn't true.

The reason for this is that legal action is extremely expensive and if you can just keep doing business that's usually the better option. I'm not sure how hard it is to prove defamation in Canada but in the US these cases usually go nowhere.