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Kiwifarms under attack | Veteran of the Psychic Wars | The Internet is for EVERYONE.

Machine

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The exploit that fucked over the site is really funny, because I vividly remember hanging out in the site chat, when Null was first testing out the new version of it- and we were literally ALL fucking around and abusing iframes (that's what got the site hacked). He knew beforehand about the exploit, but he thought it was just a quirk, not a dangerous attack vector.

LOL
 
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Some guy on the forum going by Crunklord used to help him a lot, I don't know about the forums specifically, but a lot of other stuff related to Kiwi Farms like Kiwifarms.cc and the Kiwi Farm git instance. I also know he was working on an open source forums software in Rust that he was looking for people to work on.
I'm aware that he was getting some help with the software from Crunklord but I think the extent of this was extremely limited. I also would not characterize Null's threads on ruforo as if they were asking for help. The proper ruforo thread reads more like a personal diary where Null describes what he's been working on. The announcement thread (titled Sneedforo) is mostly Null and Crunklord mocking anyone critical of their plan to rewrite XenForo in Rust. Anyway, here's an overview of the commit activity on the ruforo Github repository (if people are interested in verifying my result I can post the script I used to generate this):

Bash:
[email protected]: added lines: 3 removed lines : 3 total lines: 0
[email protected]: added lines: 91 removed lines : 10 total lines: 81
[email protected]: added lines: 9282 removed lines : 3861 total lines: 5421
[email protected]: added lines:  removed lines :  total lines:
[email protected]: added lines: 38509 removed lines : 18500 total lines: 20009
[email protected]: added lines: 6 removed lines : 6 total lines: 0
[email protected]: added lines: 1 removed lines : 1 total lines: 0
I think this kind of speaks for itself but for the uninitiated, Null ([email protected]) has contributed the vast majority of the code. Crunklord also hasn't contributed anything since January 13. In my opinion, this shows that Null is basically working alone on the new forum software. He had help from Crunklord when the project was started in late November of last year but he's always been the primary contributor of code. Crunklord's contributions have tapered off since the new year. I don't know if this translates to how he runs the site behind the scenes but right now I'm assuming it's a similar situation.

Is the lack of contributors a money problem, a problem of community will, or something to do with Null himself? I feel like a forum as big as Kiwifarms should have some money to throw around so that someone other than Null can keep the site up when he's not available. I also think it would be good to bring on some professional help if he's really serious about developing a replacement in XenForo.
 
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punishedgnome

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I'm aware that he was getting some help with the software from Crunklord but I think the extent of this was extremely limited. I also would not characterize Null's threads on ruforo as if they were asking for help. The proper ruforo thread reads more like a personal diary where Null describes what he's been working on. The announcement thread (titled Sneedforo) is mostly Null and Crunklord mocking anyone critical of their plan to rewrite XenForo in Rust. Anyway, here's an overview of the commit activity on the ruforo Github repository (if people are interested in verifying my result I can post the script I used to generate this):

Bash:
[email protected]: added lines: 3 removed lines : 3 total lines: 0
[email protected]: added lines: 91 removed lines : 10 total lines: 81
[email protected]: added lines: 9282 removed lines : 3861 total lines: 5421
[email protected]: added lines:  removed lines :  total lines:
[email protected]: added lines: 38509 removed lines : 18500 total lines: 20009
[email protected]: added lines: 6 removed lines : 6 total lines: 0
[email protected]: added lines: 1 removed lines : 1 total lines: 0
I think this kind of speaks for itself but for the uninitiated, Null ([email protected]) has contributed the vast majority of the code. Crunklord also hasn't contributed anything since January 13. In my opinion, this shows that Null is basically working alone on the new forum software. He had help from Crunklord when the project was started in late November of last year but he's always been the primary contributor of code. Crunklord's contributions have tapered off since the new year. I don't know if this translates to how he runs the site behind the scenes but right now I'm assuming it's a similar situation.

Is the lack of contributors a money problem, a problem of community will, or something to do with Null himself? I feel like a forum as big as Kiwifarms should have some money to throw around so that someone other than Null can keep the site up when he's not available. I also think it would be good to bring on some professional help if he's really serious about developing a replacement in XenForo.
You know more about it than I do. I haven't been following his attempt to develop the new software very closely.
 
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Machine

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I'm aware that he was getting some help with the software from Crunklord but I think the extent of this was extremely limited. I also would not characterize Null's threads on ruforo as if they were asking for help. The proper ruforo thread reads more like a personal diary where Null describes what he's been working on. The announcement thread (titled Sneedforo) is mostly Null and Crunklord mocking anyone critical of their plan to rewrite XenForo in Rust. Anyway, here's an overview of the commit activity on the ruforo Github repository (if people are interested in verifying my result I can post the script I used to generate this):

Bash:
[email protected]: added lines: 3 removed lines : 3 total lines: 0
[email protected]: added lines: 91 removed lines : 10 total lines: 81
[email protected]: added lines: 9282 removed lines : 3861 total lines: 5421
[email protected]: added lines:  removed lines :  total lines:
[email protected]: added lines: 38509 removed lines : 18500 total lines: 20009
[email protected]: added lines: 6 removed lines : 6 total lines: 0
[email protected]: added lines: 1 removed lines : 1 total lines: 0
I think this kind of speaks for itself but for the uninitiated, Null ([email protected]) has contributed the vast majority of the code. Crunklord also hasn't contributed anything since January 13. In my opinion, this shows that Null is basically working alone on the new forum software. He had help from Crunklord when the project was started in late November of last year but he's always been the primary contributor of code. Crunklord's contributions have tapered off since the new year. I don't know if this translates to how he runs the site behind the scenes but right now I'm assuming it's a similar situation.

Is the lack of contributors a money problem, a problem of community will, or something to do with Null himself? I feel like a forum as big as Kiwifarms should have some money to throw around so that someone other than Null can keep the site up when he's not available. I also think it would be good to bring on some professional help if he's really serious about developing a replacement in XenForo.
The code is open source, but Null has made it a little inaccessible- he's a bit touchy about people doing shit with it, even though he claims not to be.
 
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The code is open source, but Null has made it a little inaccessible- he's a bit touchy about people doing shit with it, even though he claims not to be.
Could you elaborate on this? I've taken a look at the various threads surrounding his decision to write his own forum but I didn't really see any drama outside of what I mentioned earlier.
 
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Machine

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Could you elaborate on this? I've taken a look at the various threads surrounding his decision to write his own forum but I didn't really see any drama outside of what I mentioned earlier.
It isn't so much drama so much as Null has done a shitty job at making the code accessible. He's talked about it mostly on his MATI streams. I think if you pick through the ones from the last six or so months, you'll see what I mean.
 
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EzzyCrafts

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Censorship is on a new level And will not stop. They already record your every move and sell it. What happened to internet safety guidelines?
 
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count.dijkstra

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Has Null ever reached out publicly (e.g., on a live stream or a featured post on kiwifarms.net) looking for employees/volunteers to help him maintain the site or to contribute to his software? Does he employ anyone other than himself at all? I'm genuinely curious about this.
From the interior sub-forums, it's obvious everything is done by Josh himself. Crunklord has some VPS and hosting responsibilities for other kiwi sites like the ActivityPub, matrix, and Gitea servers.

Josh is as big as a lolcow as the ones everyone made fun of on the site (he even had a mock thread at one point), the small difference is: he is a little self-aware of his lolcow-ness. One of the results is he refuses to work with anyone else; whether that is out of a lack of trust in other humans or if he's just socially retarded depends on which side of the bed he wakes up in the morning.

His finances were reportedly okay, he and his company are not really well-off, but the services he maintains are well-funded. This is from memory, things may have changed. He does contract work out from time to time, the details are usually only known to site admins.
 
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Josh is as big as a lolcow as the ones everyone made fun of on the site (he even had a mock thread at one point), the small difference is: he is a little self-aware of his lolcow-ness. One of the results is he refuses to work with anyone else; whether that is out of a lack of trust in other humans or if he's just socially retarded depends on which side of the bed he wakes up in the morning.
This is the impression I had of things. I think refusing to work with anyone else is a big mistake. I'm a big proponent of doing things yourself, but there's a time and a place to accept help. As I understand it, Null lacks any kind of professional training and has picked up everything he knows from experience. Being self-taught isn't always a bad thing but I think the ruforo chat exploit shows why formal training can make a difference. He may not want help but I think it's only going to get harder for him to maintain a service with a giant target on its back.
His finances were reportedly okay, he and his company are not really well-off, but the services he maintains are well-funded. This is from memory, things may have changed. He does contract work out from time to time, the details are usually only known to site admins.
I'm sure Null isn't swimming in a vault of gold coins, but Kiwifarms is, according to Null at least, the largest forum using XenForo. Based on archives of the frontpage, it seems like there is a regular (i.e., daily) member count of between 1,500 and 2,000 people with another 3,000 or so people reading the site without a membership. I find it hard to believe that the administration couldn't solicit either funds or volunteers to help support the site. Fundamentally, if there's no community will to upkeep Kiwifarms then Null should find a new job and bail once he's got one.

Maybe I'm assuming the worst of people but it feels to me like Null is a less drug addled Lowtax.
 
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SolidStateSurvivor

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he refuses to work with anyone else; whether that is out of a lack of trust in other humans or if he's just socially retarded depends on which side of the bed he wakes up in the morning
whoa he is literally me :FLUSH:

Kiwifarms is, according to Null at least, the largest forum using XenForo
And yet even being such a large scale operation, look what they are reduced to. Taking the site offline, getting it all this bad press, etc is a crown jewel for certain people. You could reasonably say to an extent the farms dug their own grave with the legacy they forged, but looking outside of that the means in which they mobilized this massive PR campaign (based on extreme bias in their favor, coupled with misleading or outright factually incorrect statements) that roped in the national news should be very alarming. They hit up every ally in the system pulled out every trick they could for the farms, but such an extensive effort won't be needed for smaller scale operations who oppose or mock them.

There's a literal pipeline of canonizing "fact" in public discourse, going something along the lines of e-celeb/fringe figure to their followers to Wikipedia admins to the news.

For them, manipulating people is an easy, although highly gatekept cycle. As I learned from my stint in academia, you can't just work your way into something like this and be change from within, you'll get found out/risk your entire career. (Que glow posting about imminent fear being the only thing people with the illusion of power respond to)
 
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WALFTEAM

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He does contract work out from time to time, the details are usually only known to site admins.
lol
Maybe I'm assuming the worst of people but it feels to me like Null is a less drug addled Lowtax.
For all of Lowtax's multitudes of faults, Null is a fraction of the human being Lowtax was. They actually corresponded years ago, during the start of the Shmorky Incident, and Lowtax eventually figured out what he was dealing with and peaced out.
 
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punishedgnome

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Maybe I'm assuming the worst of people, but it feels to me like Null is a less drug addled Lowtax.
For all of Lowtax's multitudes of faults, Null is a fraction of the human being Lowtax was. They actually corresponded years ago, during the start of the Shmorky Incident, and Lowtax eventually figured out what he was dealing with and peaced out.
Lowtax was a relatively normal human being besides being incredibly lazy. Lowtax used to actually be funny until he got married and sunk into a deep depression. He also had no technical ability.

Null is a 300 pound cartoon character who can code some shit but cannot interact with normal humans.
 
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I'm only drawing the comparison because I think Null is in a similar situation to the one Lowtax was in. Like Null, Lowtax was the adminstrator of a relatively successful web forum. Like Kiwifarms, Something Awful ran (and apparently still runs) on legacy forum software (vBulletin 2). Like Null, Lowtax was making enough money to live relatively comfortably and continue hosting his site. Like Kiwifarms, Something Awful experienced a series of controversies and service disruptions that were caused (at least in part) by the administration's refusal to act upon serious administrative problems. Like Null, Lowtax ran his forum with a skeleton crew (mostly consisting of his immediate family and friends rather than anyone with professional expertise).

Maybe I'm simply not up on enough of my SA history and it's a totally different situation. It feels pretty much the same to me though.
 
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punishedgnome

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Maybe I'm simply not up on enough of my SA history and it's a totally different situation. It feels pretty much the same to me though.
The biggest difference is SA was waaaaay bigger than Kiwifarms ever was. Lowtax was earning a tidy $200-300k at one point and was offered something like a cool million to sell it before it went into a downward spiral.
 
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handoferis

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I'm pretty familiar with Rust. I don't know why Josh is so fixated on it. This exploit has nothing to do with the programming language used, Josh has probably gaslit himself into thinking he knows what he's doing.
classic thing of people that don't really know what they're doing fixating on the latest meme in the computer toucher space (ruby, then nodejs, then rust/go) and thinking that because we're currently as an industry memeing about it, it means it has some inherent property of "goodness" rather than just being Cool Thing Of The Week
 
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