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Kiwifarms under attack | Veteran of the Psychic Wars | The Internet is for EVERYONE.

Hadrian Hardrada Cicero

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It's admirable that Null wants to keep playing this game but, at some point, he's going to have to wise up. By his own admission, he signed on with Zayo and if he read their AUP then he must know that this action is totally justifiable under it. What did he think was going to happen? He needs to find a providers who will take on more responsibility, convince someone to sign a specialized agreement with him, or start figuring out what he will have to do to make his service acceptable. I'm doubtful he will find anyone willing to sign a contract saying they won't summarily kick him to the curb so it might be best to start figuring out what exactly he needs to do to keep the service up.
broke: switch to another ISP
woke: BECOME the ISP :lainDance: :lainDance: :lainDance:
 
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handoferis

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It's admirable that Null wants to keep playing this game but, at some point, he's going to have to wise up. By his own admission, he signed on with Zayo and if he read their AUP then he must know that this action is totally justifiable under it. What did he think was going to happen? He needs to find a providers who will take on more responsibility, convince someone to sign a specialized agreement with him, or start figuring out what he will have to do to make his service acceptable. I'm doubtful he will find anyone willing to sign a contract saying they won't summarily kick him to the curb so it might be best to start figuring out what exactly he needs to do to keep the service up.
Yeah, as much as I am not a fan of censorship every time we go round this roundabout it is fully "oh no... $company did exactly what the contract I signed with them said they could do, fuck"
 
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count.dijkstra

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It's admirable that Null wants to keep playing this game but, at some point, he's going to have to wise up. By his own admission, he signed on with Zayo and if he read their AUP then he must know that this action is totally justifiable under it. What did he think was going to happen? He needs to find a providers who will take on more responsibility, convince someone to sign a specialized agreement with him, or start figuring out what he will have to do to make his service acceptable. I'm doubtful he will find anyone willing to sign a contract saying they won't summarily kick him to the curb so it might be best to start figuring out what exactly he needs to do to keep the service up.
[email protected] recommended them to Josh.

It's high time we push for internet access as a utility in the States.
 
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IlluminatiPirate

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Collision

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Lonely_Ghost

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I find it absurd that Kiwifarms get hammered so badly for exposing/bullying some mentally ill people while the big platforms practically have the blood of millions on their hand because they are instruments of fomenting wars and revolutions around the world. Just see the Arab Spring where Twitter et al. boasted about causing a mess, and in the end the civil wars are still going on.

It is either admirable or insane that Null still haven't jumped ship. Maybe he should have sold the site to spooks and get a job at Google for it. Like Moot did. jk
It's the worst kept secret on the internet that Null can't code for shit. He could never find a professional coding job anywhere because simply put, he sucks at it and isn't interested in learning. Most of the changes/tweaks made to the farms over the years since 2013 have all been overseen or done entirely by other users who have since jumped ship because null pissed them off.
 
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jaedaen

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Good fucking riddance. The place had a counter as to how many people it induced to commit suicide. What a dumpster fire of a place. I get being an edgy 13 year old but, yeah... you grow out of that shit. Or you should, at least.

On a side note, so many people do not understand what the freedom of speech means.

It means that you can't get arrested for saying (nearly) anything. This is a wonderful and very important thing. Just because you have the luxury of the freedom of speech from a governmental standpoint doesn't mean you're not going to get pushback from private citizens that think your shit is abhorrent. I'm not sure why some people can't understand the delineation here.
 
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Hadrian Hardrada Cicero

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Good fucking riddance. The place had a counter as to how many people it induced to commit suicide. What a dumpster fire of a place. I get being an edgy 13 year old but, yeah... you grow out of that shit. Or you should, at least.

On a side note, so many people do not understand what the freedom of speech means.

It means that you can't get arrested for saying (nearly) anything. This is a wonderful and very important thing. Just because you have the luxury of the freedom of speech from a governmental standpoint doesn't mean you're not going to get pushback from private citizens that think your shit is abhorrent. I'm not sure why some people can't understand the delineation here.
OH YEAH, HERE COMES THE OPPOSITITOINS LET'S FUCKING GOOOOO
 
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manpaint

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Good fucking riddance. The place had a counter as to how many people it induced to commit suicide. What a dumpster fire of a place. I get being an edgy 13 year old but, yeah... you grow out of that shit. Or you should, at least.

On a side note, so many people do not understand what the freedom of speech means.

It means that you can't get arrested for saying (nearly) anything. This is a wonderful and very important thing. Just because you have the luxury of the freedom of speech from a governmental standpoint doesn't mean you're not going to get pushback from private citizens that think your shit is abhorrent. I'm not sure why some people can't understand the delineation here.
I believe that the argument in this thread is that since a few private citizen (tech compagnies and ISP executives) essentially control the internet, it can act as an indirect form of governement censorship, or at the very least fufil the same function.

As other have said, the internet is not in the control of the common people , thats for sure.

I personally don't have a horse in this race, but I must admit that the show is very enjoying.

I can't wait for the next season.

The Neocities situation is going to become REALLY interesting soon...
 

jaedaen

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I believe that the argument in this thread is that since a few private citizen (tech compagnies and ISP executives) essentially control the internet, it can act as an indirect form of governement censorship, or at the very least fufil the same function.

As other have said, the internet is not in the control of the common people , thats for sure.

I personally don't have a horse in this race, but I must admit that the show is very enjoying.

I can't wait for the next season.

The Neocities situation is going to become REALLY interesting soon...
I agree that private power is concentrated in to the hands of a small number of people, and I do agree that this is a problem. Totally different issue though, as I see it. Private citizens are not the government, and all that they can do is deny you access to that which they control. They, at the very least, do not have the government monopoly on the only legitimate use of violence in the system.
 
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manpaint

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I agree that private power is concentrated in to the hands of a small number of people, and I do agree that this is a problem. Totally different issue though, as I see it. Private citizens are not the government, and all that they can do is deny you access to that which they control. They, at the very least, do not have the government monopoly on the only legitimate use of violence in the system.
It is true that there are reasons why everyone stopped cooperating with Kiwifarms

As if they are valid or not, I cannot tell since I have not looked into this.
 

Hadrian Hardrada Cicero

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It is true that there are reasons why everyone stopped cooperating with Kiwifarms

As if they are valid or not, I cannot tell since I have not looked into this.

There's a board on there called "Take that off the internet!" inwhich it details all the attempts people have tried to take down the site. If it comes back on soon, go check it out. Read up the info behind #dropkiwifarms in the info box on the front page too.
 
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manpaint

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There's a board on there called "Take that off the internet!" inwhich it details all the attempts people have tried to take down the site. If it comes back on soon, go check it out. Read up the info behind #dropkiwifarms in the info box on the front page too.
I will certainly look into it if it comes back up.
 

SolidStateSurvivor

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there's a site, the '''Peacemaker''' that functions as a hit list (and has gore on front page), Cloudflare services them.
>kill some cheating Ruskis in CS GO
>get put on irl kill list

Yeah, as much as I am not a fan of censorship every time we go round this roundabout it is fully "oh no... $company did exactly what the contract I signed with them said they could do, fuck"
Of course this sort of ToS exists for most everything, but enforcement of the rules seems rather bias and one sided often times, that's the real issue, especially when someone like Liz Fong-Jones can call in industry favors to cover up their wrongdoing.

I agree that private power is concentrated in to the hands of a small number of people, and I do agree that this is a problem. Totally different issue though, as I see it. Private citizens are not the government, and all that they can do is deny you access to that which they control. They, at the very least, do not have the government monopoly on the only legitimate use of violence in the system.
We saw with Covid instances where the feds strong armed prominent social media to introduce "fact checks" and ban "misinformation." That's where this line of "it's just a private company!!" starts to become very blurry.

The Neocities situation is going to become REALLY interesting soon...
What Neocities situation?? First I'm hearing of this.
 
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NeoTokyo Tempo

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I think one of the problems we're facing when resisting centralized power on the internet is that no person, or platform is ever good enough. People will have 1, or 2 problems with a person, or place and refuse to stand by it. I've seen this happen on multiple occasions. "I don't like Gab because Torba gave money to Fuentes and his site was hacked" "I don't like the fediverse because people there say the N word" "I don't like Odysee because you can't get views there" "I don't like Kiwifarms because people there bully other people"

The problem is that when too many people think this way (And by too many, I mean practically everyone), no one gets the help that they need. Kiwifarms may seem extreme now, but there may come a time when this forum seems extreme for even allowing for open discussion on this subject (inb4 muh slippery slope).

I'm not going to tell anyone here to like and accept kiwifarms. I'm not going to tell anyone to even begrudgingly support them. I'm not even going to ask that you reconsider any moral stance that you have. I'm just going to warn you against the "I don't like x thing" mentality.
 
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Cobalt

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>kill some cheating Ruskis in CS GO
>get put on irl kill list


Of course this sort of ToS exists for most everything, but enforcement of the rules seems rather bias and one sided often times, that's the real issue, especially when someone like Liz Fong-Jones can call in industry favors to cover up their wrongdoing.


We saw with Covid instances where the feds strong armed prominent social media to introduce "fact checks" and ban "misinformation." That's where this line of "it's just a private company!!" starts to become very blurry.


What Neocities situation?? First I'm hearing of this.
On Neocities, two websites got taken down. One stenography site (A website that is designed to look normal but has hidden content on it, usually images) and some muslim website.

 
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SolidStateSurvivor

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On Neocities, two websites got taken down. One stenography site (A website that is designed to look normal but has hidden content on it, usually images) and some muslim website.

Neocities always seemed pretty hands off with their moderation, not sure how extreme the sites in question were but it is still somewhat worrying. I'm really confused by the stenography site you mentioned. From what I gather it's cryptically linking or helping people find illegal material?

The only other thing somewhat along these lines I've noticed is lolwut's site may be shadowbanned from the activity feed.

I've always kinda of felt like I've been on thin ice just given the fact my site relies so heavily on parodying YouTube directly, plus a few other things that veer me into wrong think territory. Overall it's still the best free web host out there imo. Just reinforces the importance of keeping back ups, hearing this certainly has me motivated to do one again tomorrow since it's been a while.
 
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Shantotto

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On Neocities, two websites got taken down. One stenography site (A website that is designed to look normal but has hidden content on it, usually images) and some muslim website.

anyone know if there are archives of the neocities sites that got taken down?
 
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jaedaen

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I'm not going to tell anyone here to like and accept kiwifarms. I'm not going to tell anyone to even begrudgingly support them. I'm not even going to ask that you reconsider any moral stance that you have. I'm just going to warn you against the "I don't like x thing" mentality.
So, I'm just supposed to not have opinions about things now in general? Uh, what?

On another note, why should anyone be forced to allow content that they didn't feel comfortable allowing within their own internet community? Note: I'm not saying that people with more power than me should curtail anyone else either. I don't think anyone should be arrested for saying anything like this, but at the same time, I wouldn't want to provide them service either.

There could be legitimately government funded websites that allow all forms of speech, and in that case, there would be no cause to censor anything that wasn't directly illegal, but the government really has no reason to put money in to something like this (due to stagnancy I suppose and general ineffectiveness, but that's another conversation entirely). Additionally, personal freedom cuts both ways. If you had a website, wouldn't YOU like to be in charge of what you decided to allow there? The Agora forum admin certainly has this privilege, one they have used to cultivate a pretty great community. Still, I'm not in any position of power, nor are most people in society. I'm just one man with an opinion. I'm always happy to hear the opposing arguments, though.

We saw with Covid instances where the feds strong armed prominent social media to introduce "fact checks" and ban "misinformation." That's where this line of "it's just a private company!!" starts to become very blurry.

Tell me exactly, what would the ramifications be for not putting up a 'fact check' or 'misinformation' claim on something when asked to by the government? Would you be arrested? Would your tax status change? Could the government do anything to you besides ask you to do these things, in an admittedly fairly authoritarian voice? No? Then, the most likely scenario is that they complied with the request because they too believed that it was in their best interest for whatever reason, or were too spineless to hold up to their principles when given a toothless request. The government doesn't have as much power as is portrayed here.


The problem is that when too many people think this way (And by too many, I mean practically everyone), no one gets the help that they need. Kiwifarms may seem extreme now, but there may come a time when this forum seems extreme for even allowing for open discussion on this subject (inb4 muh slippery slope).
People not getting help is an excellent point. It's very easy to dismiss people that are being dismissed because they're so outrageous to your sensibilities. This goes for everyone. It's not really an easy problem to solve, and I imagine it's something that far easier to handle on an individual basis rather than an organizational one, because if you talk to a single individual for long enough, anyone really, you start to realize they're an actual person. We evolved to have a very us vs them outlook in general... not really the fault of anyone in particular, it's how we're programmed, but it's something that takes a lot of effort to overcome. I think that places like this that allow for a wide variety of discussions with people that have varying beliefs and feel comfortable expressing those differences is the best way to help, though.

As for the slippery slope argument, I'm sure this forum is already considered extreme to many because it allows these conversations to exist in the first place, but this is a knee jerk reaction to not wanting to be associated with something that feels disgusting to a person. However, nuance is found in the details of these conversations, which is something that The Mob will never see. I have no doubt that there are some nuanced discussions at Kiwifarms with real humans that have lives as rich as anyone else, but I still have no desire to be a part of a community that intentionally goads people to kill themselves. That is extreme to me. These are actual people's lives here. It's not a fucking game. It's the 'not realizing someone is a human' thing I was talking about before. It happens a lot more frequently and with more intensity on the internet, it seems. Not that I haven't been young and accepted all of this 'anything goes regardless of the circumstances' decades ago either, but I've aged and my perspectives have shifted as a result.

We all draw our own boundaries somewhere, even those that feel as though everything should be acceptable everywhere.

I do appreciate that differing opinion seems to be welcome here though and discussions are respectful. I don't like that people are guided in to echo chambers in most parts of the internet.
 
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