Let's talk magick here

[temporaltaboo]

Based on what?

 

[Jessica3cho雪血⊜青意]

Placebos still work. Of course its all mental...

It's always been about the mind. It's just on you, bro. (No offense).

This expectation that magic can directly violate reality instead of merely suggesting its course feels like a huge reason why most people are turned off by neopagan practices.

People want an easy out and because of the Pagan and Satanic scares of the late 20th century, people have some spooky-occult brain idea that you can sacrifice a goat and do a chant and then shit just falls in your lap. We can thank modern media for portraying spells and spellcasting as some sort of "uwu I shooted lightning bolts at you!!!", when in reality, Pagan worship has always been behind the idea that "We can bend reality to our will", not "We can break reality for our will".

 

[temporaltaboo]

People want an easy out and because of the Pagan and Satanic scares of the late 20th century, people have some spooky-occult brain idea that you can sacrifice a goat and do a chant and then shit just falls in your lap. We can thank modern media for portraying spells and spellcasting as some sort of "uwu I shooted lightning bolts at you!!!", when in reality, Pagan worship has always been behind the idea that "We can bend reality to our will", not "We can break reality for our will".

This 100%. This needs to be stressed to everyone that gets into magick.

 

[Milkington]

What's the point of what? Doing Magick if its a Placebo? Doing rituals if they're a placebo?

I'd be glad to tell you my perspective on things, if you have more specific questions?

I guess what I asking is: if magick is nothing but a placebo effect that helps you be more confident in accomplishing your goals, then why go to all that effort? Could you get the same effect with a rabbits foot, if you truly believe it will give you good luck?

 

[Shrug]

I don't believe in magic in a fantastical mystical sense, but I think the power of suggestion and belief is very powerful psychologically.

 

[temporaltaboo]

I guess what I asking is: if magick is nothing but a placebo effect that helps you be more confident in accomplishing your goals, then why go to all that effort? Could you get the same effect with a rabbits foot, if you truly believe it will give you good luck?

1) Rabbits foot is still participating in superstition and the occult so owened B)

But as a serious reply, I believe a lot of it makes sense if you go in with the mindset of "what you put in is what you get out."

If you go through the trouble of doing these rituals and checking in with the gods on a consistent, timely, and respectful manner, you will in turn be compensated for your efforts.

 

[Jessica3cho雪血⊜青意]

I guess what I asking is: if magick is nothing but a placebo effect that helps you be more confident in accomplishing your goals, then why go to all that effort? Could you get the same effect with a rabbits foot, if you truly believe it will give you good luck?

Well, I'm sure just having a rabbit's foot would allow some people to feel that way and I respect that. Whatever it takes to do what you gotta do.

The difference between just having a rabbit's foot and having a ritualized practice is the effort put into it. Psychological, one of the traits that set us apart from some creatures, it our ability to recognize patterns and then use those patterns to store massive information in a small place (like file compression). Lifestyles are a series of habits, and studies show that habits are formed by doing something repetitively. The robustness of the thing done is proportional to both the difficulty of creating and the ease of maintaining it.

When something is difficult, it takes time to master, but once you have mastered it, it leaves more of an impression on your brain. You can see this in science by the way neurological paths are built. The more elements in something, the more synapses your brain needs, the more synaptic connections it makes, which then creates a more sturdy network of connections relating to that specific thing.

That is why I make my rituals and prayers such an important part of my life. I want it to have positive effects on all aspects of my life. It would be extremely difficult for me to make my brain believe that I could achieve everything I've ever wanted in life by simply wearing a rabbits foot. That is way too much information to store in such a small symbol. Imagine everyone of your goals being a file on a computer. You can compress all of the files only so much before it corrupts the data and makes it an unusable waste of space. Your brain is the same way. If you relate too many things to a symbol, the symbol begins to become meaningless.

 

[Milkington]

1) Rabbits foot is still participating in superstition and the occult so owened B)

But as a serious reply, I believe a lot of it makes sense if you go in with the mindset of "what you put in is what you get out."

If you go through the trouble of doing these rituals and checking in with the gods on a consistent, timely, and respectful manner, you will in turn be compensated for your efforts.

Thanks for taking the time to answer. Just curious then, do you believe the gods exist independently of humanity?

I am leaning towards them existing at the moment. But science has shown that the nature of the universe is so different from what we humans are used to, that these gods must be quite strange!

 

[Jessica3cho雪血⊜青意]

Thanks for taking the time to answer. Just curious then, do you believe the gods exist independently of humanity?

Of course, I'm glad to talk about and discuss anything. I just enjoy having civil discussions.

No, I do not believe the gods exist independent of humanity. I do believe that perhaps anything can exist, but the burden of proof lies on the proposer. As far as I'm aware, any god is just a creation by the human psyche to explain concepts.

 

[temporaltaboo]

Thanks for taking the time to answer. Just curious then, do you believe the gods exist independently of humanity?

I am leaning towards them existing at the moment. But science has shown that the nature of the universe is so different from what we humans are used to, that these gods must be quite strange!

Well, I think whether or not they exist at all is irrelevant since its an un-falsifiable statement. But in a way, that kind of does make them exist independently of humanity, so I guess yes?

That was more convoluted as a reply than intended but there ya go lol

 

[cybercola]

I read once that the best most efficient way to charge chaos magick sigils was - at risk of being too nsfw for a sfw forum - ...climaxing and envisioning your sigil mentally within that moment

now obviously I've never tried it but I gotta know how legit that was because it sounds funny

 

[Deepwaterjew]

But seriously, if magick is really all in the mind, and it works the same as a placebo, then what's the point? It feels kind of empty.

as a comically heretical rabbi said, "magic is all in your head, you just have no idea how big your head is!"

 

[temporaltaboo]

I read once that the best most efficient way to charge chaos magick sigils was - at risk of being too nsfw for a sfw forum - ...climaxing and envisioning your sigil mentally within that moment

now obviously I've never tried it but I gotta know how legit that was because it sounds funny

there's sex magick in the mega

 

[mast]

I have several reasons for following the gods/goddesses of Rome personally, but if you're concerned about locatiopn of worship, then my most important reason would be my Mediterranean heritage. I'm also Cherokee, which leads me to take a more "hippie" like approach to things, but I find the practices of ancient Rome to "feel like a better match. I just, I suppose, simply like their pantheon and beliefs more than the next polytheistic pagan religion.

slight derail but I think you're the only, for lack of a better term, "Roman" neopagan I've come across in the wild. Do you approach your practice in a more strict reconstructionist Nova Roma type of way or is it more experimental?

 

[Jessica3cho雪血⊜青意]

slight derail but I think you're the only, for lack of a better term, "Roman" neopagan I've come across in the wild. Do you approach your practice in a more strict reconstructionist Nova Roma type of way or is it more experimental?

Ironically, one of the most useful websites in getting me started down my path of Roman Paganism was NOVA ROMA (novaroma.org).

I would say that I am probably more Nova Roma than not, but am I a reconstructionist? I would say no. I generally tell people that I am Neo Romana Pagan, because the traditionalist script of Roman religion is more of a foundation for my interpretation of Roman practice than it is a strict cod of adherence. Often times I see Nova Roma reconstructionists going, "Okay, here's how people do things in modern times, lets strip that back and be more Roman about it", while I tend to go, "Okay, this is how Rome did it, let's be more modern about it".

Anyways, I hope this answered your question.

 

[Rebel]

Magick is all mental. Studies have shown that participating in or believing in ritualized or scheduled systems makes you more prone to both experience the things you work towards or manifest into reality the things you aim for. Its the same idea behind the self-fulfilling prophecy. Essentially, Magicks work on the same basis as a placebo.

That is why I spend time worshipping the Ancient Roman gods/goddesses and follow a good portion of their rituals, just updated for a more modern situation. They believed that religion was a contract between the people and the gods/goddesses, much more of a lawful endeavor than an occult one.

I regularly spend time making offerings to Vesta around our hearth, in which we keep a small flame constantly burning (we make the fire more robust for big events), as well as hanging contracts and making prayers. I find it both motivating for the mind and my sense of existence in the universe. It almost exudes a righteous confidence over me that I can carry into my daily tasks (not so much in a vain way, but in a way that makes me feel I am capable of achieving anything I put my mind to).

To me, the gods and goddesses represent portions of our own reality and by breaking them into their own entities, allows us to focus on specific aspects of our life and, by viewing our traits as that of another person, can help us feel less ashamed to confront our negativities and more likely to find positive answers to the struggles we face.

If magick is all mental, I would have a hard time really believing or giving that intent towards the rituals and spells, which is so important. I don't practice, I'm genuinely just curious as to how you see past that, if you believe it is all mental?
Doesn't that thought get in the way when you are performing rituals? That it's all in your mind? Like another user said, I guess it would feel kind of empty for me at least.

 

[Deleted member 1930]

I don't believe in magic in a fantastical mystical sense, but I think the power of suggestion and belief is very powerful psychologically.

anyone who has been looking at the world since the end of 2019 should see that

 

[Deleted member 1930]

I read once that the best most efficient way to charge chaos magick sigils was - at risk of being too nsfw for a sfw forum - ...climaxing and envisioning your sigil mentally within that moment

now obviously I've never tried it but I gotta know how legit that was because it sounds funny

that is one way of doing it but not the only way. orgasm is just a common one because it's easy to get to. the goal is a clear mind and intense focus. you can get the same effect with psychotropics or even yoga..

 

[Deleted member 1930]

If magick is all mental, I would have a hard time really believing or giving that intent towards the rituals and spells, which is so important. I don't practice, I'm genuinely just curious as to how you see past that, if you believe it is all mental?
Doesn't that thought get in the way when you are performing rituals? That it's all in your mind? Like another user said, I guess it would feel kind of empty for me at least.

not at all. knowing it's all in your mind is HOW and WHy it works. if i didn't know it was the power of my mind doing, im not sure i would believe it at all

 

[temporaltaboo]

If magick is all mental, I would have a hard time really believing or giving that intent towards the rituals and spells, which is so important. I don't practice, I'm genuinely just curious as to how you see past that, if you believe it is all mental?
Doesn't that thought get in the way when you are performing rituals? That it's all in your mind? Like another user said, I guess it would feel kind of empty for me at least.

It requires belief in the ritual you are doing to perform, much like you get the best results in any religion if you truly believe in and invest yourself in it. Even so, there are secular practitioners who simply sidestep the conflict by viewing it as a guiding philisophy with practices used to meditate on info they gain and basically treat everything in their practice as a huge metaphor from my understanding.