Old people who don't understand trends tend to ruin them

[Obake]

This isn't meant to be an attack on older people. I'm in my late twenties and I see this a lot from people my age too. In general, trends are often followed by older people who try to understand the trend and in the modern age that leads to YouTube videos about the trend and then waves of people who pick up on the trend based on the false premise that they picked up from someone who is out of touch.

The easiest example I can think of is the cassette tape trend. Cassettes died, and then a few years ago they made a comeback and that's still ongoing. People liked them because it's a very physical medium. The players are big and have a satisfying weight to them, they have big chunky mechanical buttons that make a satisfying sound when pressed. And most importantly - the tapes themselves are cheap, you can easily make your own, and there's a very satisfying sound when you pop them into the player and close the door. Watching the tape reels spin during playback is fun, and not being able to easily skip songs offers a more organic experience as you will end up falling in love with many deep cuts. Albums are physical and can be seen on a shelf, but they're also small and don't take up too much space. And most importantly, they're cheap and vinyl is not.

Perhaps one of the best aspects of the medium is that it's not a perfect medium. The sound quality is good, but it's not super clean like digital music is. There's a little bit of noise mixed in and personally I like this, it feels more organic than digital music.

And this is where the disconnect happened. The cassette revival had been in motion for long enough that some older people started to pick up on it and they all were scratching their heads as to why younger people would want to listen to music on cassette when it's not a perfect medium. Then some (older) YouTubers made videos about the cassette format and that led to more people getting into the hobby and as a result there are now tons of people into cassette tapes who are looking for Hi-Fi players that give the cleanest sound possible. It completely misses the point of why there was a resurgence in the medium, and it introduces people who should have been filtered out by gatekeeping.

And even worse, it's causes prices to go up. You can still get cassettes for super cheap, but there are people charging an arm and a leg for them and it's absolutely going the way of vinyl. For instance, I'm in Tokyo and I heard many recommendations to check out a store called Waltz, so I stopped by and they had a lot of cassettes but everything was selling for 2-3 thousand yen each (like $20 or $30, to a local. Obviously it's different if you're converting currency). Or even worse, they had low-end portable players on sale for 20,000 yen or more! (Like $200).

Those low-end players are good players, but that's way too much. And the price for the cassettes is insane. For the price of one cassette at Waltz I could record 15 albums onto blanks. I have some official tapes that I got at thrift stores, but I can't imagine paying that much money for an old cassette from 30-40 years ago. It's a different story if it's a new release, I have paid $30 for new cassettes.

But imagine some old guy who saw a Tech Moan video and then went out to buy a WM-DD9 or a WM-DD3 and then picked up a handful of cassettes from Waltz for $30 a piece. Ugh, it's awful to even imagine it and I have seen posts from people like that on reddit.

I gave cassettes as an example but this really applies to anything. I could go on for hours about how these same types of people ruined retro gaming, for example. Surely you guys have experienced the same thing?

 

[Deleted member 1982]

YouTubers

Literally the leeches of the Internet.

Whichever topic or whatever niche small thing happens thousands of youtubers rush to shit out a 10-20 min video, overly edited and full with "sponsorships" to talk it to death. All this just to earn (hopefully) 250$ in Ad gibs and on to the next vapid and forgetable video.

"Why Millenials prefer cassetes over spotify" and its 15mins long, includes a "history" of cassetes and audio mediums no one asked for and than, depending on what "personal opinion" the youtuber has goes on a tangent that millenials do it to either "stick it to the big evil internet SASS companies" or "Return to analogue" or "Want to experience TRUE music".
(Sponsored by raycon).

it's causes prices to go up

Fucking this. I looked for PS1 games on secondhand websites, because emulators are overhyped and suck tremendously, and interesting Games all cost up to 100€, more expensive than current games. And they are all "Retro Marvels", "Pristine Condition", "Perfect for collectors".

Same with certain Car Brands, like Audis from the 80s or 90s are ridiculous. Dont even think about buying an Quattro. 3 Series Bimmer from the 90s? might as well rather buy a Porsche from the money.

 

[eve]

It completely misses the point of why there was a resurgence in the medium, and it introduces people who should have been filtered out by gatekeeping.

not completely on-topic since what im talking abt has 2 do with younger ppl and not the older generation, but a veeery similar sequence of events unfolded on tiktok and instagram surrounding the whole "frutiger aero" aesthetic ... what wuz once a genuine appreciation for not only the ui design but also the consumer aesthetics at that time became essentially just a flanderization of itself, and it just became about the "vibe" or "aesthetic" or whatever and less about ACTUAL FRUITGER AERO DESIGN PRINCIPLES ... and ofc with the nature of modern social media people will eventually move on and act like it never existed once ppl start deciding that aero design is "overrated" and etc etc etc ..

"Why Millenials prefer cassetes over spotify" and its 15mins long, includes a "history" of cassetes and audio mediums no one asked for and than, depending on what "personal opinion" the youtuber has goes on a tangent that millenials do it to either "stick it to the big evil internet SASS companies" or "Return to analogue" or "Want to experience TRUE music".

i hate this sht so much i cant eeven begin
like, if they actually covered the topic it wouldnt be an issue but they literally give the bare minimum fucking wikipedia paraphrased script like if i wanted a surface level analysis i would just read an article abt it or ,,, better yet, just look it up online and see what real enthusiasts have 2 say abt it ... its so annoying that most youtubers nowadays just spoonfeed shit 2u and its made the whole platform just rlly fucking stagnant

 

[handoferis]

This isn't older people ruining trends, it's people who want to make a quick buck. Hustle culture commodifies people's enjoyment and turns it into niche markets for exploitation. This happened in the vintage keyboard hobby over covid when dickheads started market manipulating, but we are a small enough hobby that we eventually ran those people out.

It's a function of both "hustlers" existing and also stupid paypigs with bigger wallets than sense giving them the money to continue to make it profitable. You can only stop it by forming a united front against both types of people.

 

[Deleted member 1982]

You can only stop it by forming a united front against both types of people.

(Made with AI)

Gatekeeping is good.
Gatekeeping is necessary.

 

[Obake]

Fucking this. I looked for PS1 games on secondhand websites, because emulators are overhyped and suck tremendously, and interesting Games all cost up to 100€, more expensive than current games. And they are all "Retro Marvels", "Pristine Condition", "Perfect for collectors".

Same with certain Car Brands, like Audis from the 80s or 90s are ridiculous. Dont even think about buying an Quattro. 3 Series Bimmer from the 90s? might as well rather buy a Porsche from the money.

I could go on all day about the gaming aspect. Retro games have been my main hobby for years now and I've watched it go to shit further and further over the years. I hate this mentality that everyone has where they think their old shit is worth a fortune. They ruined their own game market and now they're trying to ruin Japan's too, prices are shooting up over here. Just a few years ago I used to see boxed copies of Pokemon on Game Boy for just a few dollars. Now they're over $100. The loose copies were still cheap, about a dollar or 3 a piece, but last weekend I was at a shop and saw it's over $10 now - while it's still not a lot, it's a big jump. But that's just pokemon; I've watched prices jump across the board these last few years. I'm thankful that I already have a huge collection, but now I also feel pressured to hurry up and grab whatever games I'm interested in before fat bastards in another country price me out of my own market. I hate it so much. And right now their currency is worth more so they have a leg up over me.

Recently a bunch of big retro gaming YouTubers suddenly took vacations to Japan around the same time to buy old games. As it turns out, they all had free vacations paid for by some proxy shipping company. Literally ads to encourage people to further ruin the market. I hate paypigs.

On the topic of cars, I used to drive a junk of junk from the 90s back in 2015. I bet that thing is sought after now

not completely on-topic since what im talking abt has 2 do with younger ppl and not the older generation, but a veeery similar sequence of events unfolded on tiktok and instagram surrounding the whole "frutiger aero" aesthetic ... what wuz once a genuine appreciation for not only the ui design but also the consumer aesthetics at that time became essentially just a flanderization of itself, and it just became about the "vibe" or "aesthetic" or whatever and less about ACTUAL FRUITGER AERO DESIGN PRINCIPLES ... and ofc with the nature of modern social media people will eventually move on and act like it never existed once ppl start deciding that aero design is "overrated" and etc etc etc ..

i hate this sht so much i cant eeven begin
like, if they actually covered the topic it wouldnt be an issue but they literally give the bare minimum fucking wikipedia paraphrased script like if i wanted a surface level analysis i would just read an article abt it or ,,, better yet, just look it up online and see what real enthusiasts have 2 say abt it ... its so annoying that most youtubers nowadays just spoonfeed shit 2u and its made the whole platform just rlly fucking stagnant

What's frutiger aero?

This isn't older people ruining trends, it's people who want to make a quick buck. Hustle culture commodifies people's enjoyment and turns it into niche markets for exploitation. This happened in the vintage keyboard hobby over covid when dickheads started market manipulating, but we are a small enough hobby that we eventually ran those people out.

It's a function of both "hustlers" existing and also stupid paypigs with bigger wallets than sense giving them the money to continue to make it profitable. You can only stop it by forming a united front against both types of people.

You're right, I'm retarded.

 

[Antice]

like, if they actually covered the topic it wouldnt be an issue but they literally give the bare minimum fucking wikipedia paraphrased script like if i wanted a surface level analysis i would just read an article abt it or ,,, better yet, just look it up online and see what real enthusiasts have 2 say abt it ... its so annoying that most youtubers nowadays just spoonfeed shit 2u and its made the whole platform just rlly fucking stagnant

I found the opposite to be true too. Instead of leaving the mainstream to do their thing, some experts take it upon themselves to reveal everything:

If an ad plays your favourite song it's over.

Never teach your parents on: "How to tame a horse in Minecraft" let them enjoy the struggle and observe like an old man. (Got this from some quote and mixed it with a reference)

 

[Sketch Relics]

I could go on all day about the gaming aspect. Retro games have been my main hobby for years now and I've watched it go to shit further and further over the years.

Well, really you only need the console at this point. All of the cartridge based systems have flashcarts available that can hold the entire game library and most of the disk based systems have solid state disk drive replacements that serve the same function. Assuming you have the savings to brunt the upfront cost( varies from super cheap to a little pricey), it is considerably cheaper to own an entire retro console's library than it was in the past. Though I suppose this only applies if your not a collector.

 

[幽邃森林]

As any niche interest grows, it's natural for more and more people from what I call "the lowest common denominator" to engage in these interests.

These people may be truly interested in such hobbies, but aren't fully invested enough to understand or care about the hobby in the same manner of the first wave of adopters. I don't really notice these people being older though. Maybe I'm not as observant but I guess they could be older people since the cohort that consists of this lowest common denominator tend to "participate" in a hobby by throwing money at it.

Eventually as more people from the lowest common denominator engage in a hobby, the bar will gradually lower to the point that normies enter the scene. They may see the hobby merely as a fashion statement or something that will raise their social status. At that point the niche hobby is no longer a hobby but a consumer market.

 

[Deleted member 1982]

Well, really you only need the console at this point. All of the cartridge based systems have flashcarts available that can hold the entire game library and most of the disk based systems have solid state disk drive replacements that serve the same function. Assuming you have the savings to brunt the upfront cost( varies from super cheap to a little pricey), it is considerably cheaper to own an entire retro console's library than it was in the past. Though I suppose this only applies if your not a collector.

How would this work for PlayStation 1 games? I want to play Parasite Eve 1 and 2(which never released in Europe) I did some google search just now and ofc >reddit and they talk about modding, chipping etc.

And it feels like they turned it unnecessarily into a science and everything hinges on super fragile shit. Like mods for skyrim that randomly break shit and mod authors too ignorant to admit it. Needless to mention the hours wasted trying to set them up and check what conflicts again.

 

[eve]

What's frutiger aero?

in very very simplified terms its a set of design languages and principles that became popular in the early to late 2000s that prioritizes skeuomorphism

think windows 7, the psp ui, ios b4 it went all flat and minimalist , etc

 

[Digital Cheese]

YouTube videos about

trend

Even Adolf Hitler was kind enough to not make shitty YouTube videos for shekels, why can't these YouTuber retards do it?

 

[illautomatic]

Trends flow backwards through time and are picked from rivers by beings stuck in the past. Everywhere, you can see them. They are like you, only different, somehow. It's something in the skin and the eyes, in their voices. It's hard to say, really.

At first, you seem to be speaking the same language, only the language doesn't seem to say the same things. Only anger and frustration cut across time. Time is funny like that: I was there at the beginning, and I am here at the end. You are too. We just don't know it yet.

 

[Antoine]

Beyond issues of pricing it seems to me that the wrong people entering a thing can only ruin something which is primarily social.

I raise this point because most people talking about the importance of gatekeeping can't raise good non-social reasons for why. If you're into some niche kind of hardware that now costs a fortune because tasteless idiots bought them all for memes that sucks. But to take an extreme example from the other side, getting upset because a video game that never had a physical release is now popular because super crypatch wolf made a youtube video about it in which he pretends it made him cry for 30 minutes is stupid. If you valued a thing only because you feel like it conveyed a kind of status to people who don't appreciate it themselves, well that's a shit form of value that nobody should miss. I'm talking about those Fear & Hunger games if you couldn't already tell. I knew about them very early on and liked them a lot. Was disappointed by the reception they got then. Am disappointed by the reception they have now. Real appreciation of anything is always going to be lonely company. It went from a small mostly socially oriented following/community (that word makes me sick) to a big socially oriented one. I don't think either group have anything interesting to say about it.

Where it gets more concerning here is that in this particular case we're talking about an artist rather than a trend. Corruption of an artist I see as far more concerning than the corruption of a social trend. And this particular artist is now surrounded by and bombarded with attention from people who have a rather skewed interpretation of his work and now seem to have the power to sherpa him into being theirs to make what they believe he's about. Rather than them being his. I've seen reports that his fans speak for him and explain why he did certain things in the past, what parts are and aren't authentically him, and what he will be aspiring to do in the future. It sounds to me like he's their prisoner.

I've seen social trends corrupted by idiots flooding in. But really I don't think anything cool is about the trend or the mass mood, it's about the influence of a few individuals. If the individuals are intact nothing else matters too much. Nice if they're able to shine out and influence the world but one can never count on that.

I don't believe that Gatekeeping has any positive social function. What is needed is a kind of Randian contempt for the masses and an awareness that good people need to be protected and cultivated to be more themselves and less what the rabble want. Most fans of anything are retarded and it should be taken for granted that anything will be worse appreciated as more people are paying attention. As long as they aren't able to secure money or play commissar with their betters they can't do too much damage. Reduce them back to their rightful place in culture as noisemakers and moneybags.

 

[SolidStateSurvivor]

I feel like there's a clear distinction to be made between a trend (meme) and the hobbies mentioned here (game/cassette collecting). Trends/memes by their nature usually have a limited shelf life that older out of touch people can prematurely run into the ground

Hobbies entail a mixed pursuit of leisure and a quest for knowledge. The factors that lead to a particularl hobby declining have already been stated pretty extensively here, but the thing that kills it is those who care little for the education process and just want to pay their way into getting in on the scene (this also applies to special interests like bands, tv, etc.) In some of the niche gaming circles I was apart of it was immature teenagers and fruitcake young adults that ruined it by bringing down the overall quality of discussion and overtly distracting people by making it all about them. This either happens prematurely or is a result of just about every major stone getting turned over and there being little left to discover.

You either let the annoying aspects of the fandom get to you or it comes full circle and you re-capture the sense of enjoyment you had engaging with the hobby/special interest on more solitary terms. Usually I just find something else to fixate on, but it's been admittedly a little harder for me to find things these days.

My absolute pet peeve are these clout chasers who seek to commodify collective knowledge for surface level content. It's not that the knowledge shouldn't be free or easily accessible, but there's just something really scummy about the manner in which these parasites go about it, especially when it's so lazily done it contains glaring errors and falsehoods. It's tolerable when this sort of exposure manages to spark a genuine passion into people who want to dig deeper, but it comes at the expense of so many others fronting as experts just because they restate the same spoonfed facts and opinions of the content creator.

I could go on all day about the gaming aspect. Retro games have been my main hobby for years now and I've watched it go to shit further and further over the years. I hate this mentality that everyone has where they think their old shit is worth a fortune. They ruined their own game market and now they're trying to ruin Japan's too, prices are shooting up over here. Just a few years ago I used to see boxed copies of Pokemon on Game Boy for just a few dollars. Now they're over $100. The loose copies were still cheap, about a dollar or 3 a piece, but last weekend I was at a shop and saw it's over $10 now - while it's still not a lot, it's a big jump. But that's just pokemon; I've watched prices jump across the board these last few years. I'm thankful that I already have a huge collection, but now I also feel pressured to hurry up and grab whatever games I'm interested in before fat bastards in another country price me out of my own market. I hate it so much. And right now their currency is worth more so they have a leg up over me.

Recently a bunch of big retro gaming YouTubers suddenly took vacations to Japan around the same time to buy old games. As it turns out, they all had free vacations paid for by some proxy shipping company. Literally ads to encourage people to further ruin the market. I hate paypigs.

On the topic of cars, I used to drive a junk of junk from the 90s back in 2015. I bet that thing is sought after now


What's frutiger aero?


You're right, I'm retarded.

Fuck that sucks to hear, the Japanese e-markets were a godsend of getting things cheap if you knew where to look and his to navigate/forward items. Can't even find good deals locally anymore, every moron with a yard sale or Facebook marketplace thinks their copy of Mario 64 is worth a lot because of all those bullshit WATA press releases.

 

[Antice]

Can we advance from here:
https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths

You either let the annoying aspects of the fandom get to you or it comes full circle and you re-capture the sense of enjoyment you had engaging with the hobby/special interest on more solitary terms. Usually I just find something else to fixate on, but it's been admittedly a little harder for me to find things these days.

To be a sub group of a niche hobby that got big is a hard task. Sometimes it's better to take a break and let the hype train pass instead of steering it (it only goes two ways and you will only fuel it).

I don't believe that Gatekeeping has any positive social function.

Like dads credit card for my Fortnite skins. That is the bar, monetary value.

 

[赤い男]

This isn't meant to be an attack on older people

Nuke Old People
Gas The Boomers
Annihilate Grannies
Burn Asylums
Destroy pops
Decimate Cranberry Juice
Desintegrate Grandpas
Desecrate WW2 Memorials
Blow Staffs
Cut their pensions
Extend their retirement age

Slice them open
Drink their electrolytes

See this? These are two mailboxes full of pipebombs (it aims exclusively individuals over the 65 years old)

 

[Sketch Relics]

How would this work for PlayStation 1 games? I want to play Parasite Eve 1 and 2(which never released in Europe) I did some google search just now and ofc >reddit and they talk about modding, chipping etc.

And it feels like they turned it unnecessarily into a science and everything hinges on super fragile shit. Like mods for skyrim that randomly break shit and mod authors too ignorant to admit it. Needless to mention the hours wasted trying to set them up and check what conflicts again.

IIRC the PS1 is the one console that needs soldering during install, if you still want to try it you can use something like Xstation or the Terraonion MODE. In both cases you will also need a compatible SSD with the games you want properly formatted and installed according to the mods instruction set. Alternatively, you can mod a PS2, which is way easier.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLc5OnM1F_M


Personally, I have a Terraonion MODE for my Sega Saturn and haven't had any issues so far, though the PS1 version needs some additional stuff due to the aforementioned soldering and is currently sold out on their store.

Oh, before I forget, before you buy anything make sure the console model you have is actually compatible with the mod you want to purchase, some mods don't work with certain models or may have different install instructions depending on which one you have.

 

[Some_porcupine]

As any niche interest grows, it's natural for more and more people from what I call "the lowest common denominator" to engage in these interests.

These people may be truly interested in such hobbies, but aren't fully invested enough to understand or care about the hobby in the same manner of the first wave of adopters. I don't really notice these people being older though. Maybe I'm not as observant but I guess they could be older people since the cohort that consists of this lowest common denominator tend to "participate" in a hobby by throwing money at it.

Eventually as more people from the lowest common denominator engage in a hobby, the bar will gradually lower to the point that normies enter the scene. They may see the hobby merely as a fashion statement or something that will raise their social status. At that point the niche hobby is no longer a hobby but a consumer market.

Reminds me of politics and Capturing the flag
You pick Biden when you can't have Sanders
And leftists clump when there is no one to represent them, even if it harms them all, the in-group, and the whole spectrum too
"I am leftist, I support (RW candidate), yes we exist" them sounds like joke, but hear me out, it is not
There are as many sides and political parties/groups as there are people
Some.hate aspects of this clupong, some don't. Some people want them all to clump, some don't. Take e.g.

People who believe kids should teach sex-ed from 4 years , versus some ultra-leftist socialist fury who want to fight for right to walk on streets almost naked in tiny harness. This is how mass media works.
Take things out of context ... Gatekeep girlboss gaslight - and you have Fox News or 60 Minutes. Next Big Scare...

lemme quote

This isn't older people ruining trends, it's people who want to make a quick buck. Hustle culture commodifies people's enjoyment and turns it into niche markets for exploitation. This happened in the vintage keyboard hobby over covid when dickheads started market manipulating, but we are a small enough hobby that we eventually ran those people out.

It's a function of both "hustlers" existing and also stupid paypigs with bigger wallets than sense giving them the money to continue to make it profitable. You can only stop it by forming a united front against both types of people.

 

[LostintheCycle]

I raise this point because most people talking about the importance of gatekeeping can't raise good non-social reasons for why.

Obviously, the definition of gatekeeping implies there is a community, so of course there are few non-social reasons, and it doesn't matter so much what they are anyway because the intentional application of it is for the betterment of a social group.
Anyway I can give you an example where you are wrong, however.
Some people may already know I am interested in poetry, I can't say the most obsessed, but probably more than 99.9% of the population.
I can't point to specific things, but something definitely happened to poetry. I have yearbooks from my high school that go back to the early noughties, and maybe it was the emo craze but the pages had a lot of poetry, but most surprising was that they were alright! That's just a sample of the high school students who had to write something for their school project. But somewhere it all went bad.
One I could possibly point to is Rupi Kaur, and that horrible book 'milk and honey'.

More than a million poetry books were sold in the last year, the highest number on record, as the popularity of social media sensations such as Rupi Kaur continues to reinvigorate the art form. Sales are up 13%, to £10.5m, according to figures from Nielsen Book Research. [Source: Guardian 2017]

I actually have a copy of the book, I bought it to see the fuss, and I hated it. I believe poetry is a special word reserved for some literary work which specifically employs poetic form (not necessarily strictly) such as metre, rhyme, vocabulary, structures; to create imagery, story, emotions, expressions, etc. and what does not use poetic form is prose. Now, see for yourself if she writes poetry, I copied three randomly selected poems for you to see.

Spoiler: 1

the next time you
have your coffee black
you'll taste the bitter
state he left you in
it will make you weep
but you'll never
stop drinking
you'd rather have the
darkest parts of him
than have nothing

Spoiler: 2

he isn't coming back
whispered my head
he has to
sobbed my heart

Spoiler: 3

you've touched me
without even
touching me

If you seek out poetry written online, it is like this more or less. It is all about the same insipid topics (primarily venting anger or depression) without any desire to say something, and worse, without a sliver of poetic form, the defining feature of poetry.
I have spent so many hours across Wattpad, Tumblr, and FictionPress trying to find any soul who actually gives a crap about writing a decent poem, but I can't. I genuinely wanted to the whole time as well.
The reason this happened I imagine is because there wasn't enough 'Your poem was good, though at line X the ending feels stiff, and at line Y you break the rhyme scheme without a reason to, but I liked what you did with the Zth stanza', and too much 'Poetry can be what you want! I wrote a haiku, I learned to count syllables when I was six and am proud of it!'.
Now, it's a form that is reviled by normal people, made shallow by casuals, or has been mistreated by academia in their usual way (slam poetry, while containing some elements of poetic form, is heavily political, aggressive, and not very aesthetic)
I don't usually care about the 'community' of a hobby I am in and usually don't need to to enjoy it, but in this case it really does have an effect; it's made the quality of poetry written by the average amateur poet awful, thus ruining my hobby of reading amateur poetry.