On The Topic Of A Societal Collapse

[ignika98]

A common topic of discussion I've noticed around these forums, is the idea of societal collapse. Either that we're headed towards one as we speak, or what would bring it about, what would it be like afterwards, etc. In these discussions everyone seems to have their own views on things, but many of them seem to agree that a collapse will/should happen. Personally, I find that strange. I've posted before in some of these threads on how I think things are getting better, not worse. But this thread isn't about the likelihood of a collapse, it's about why some people seem to want it so bad, even those who agree that it's not going to happen. I think I have an idea, and I want to share my thoughts on it.

I think we can all agree that nowadays, people are forced to care about way too much. Everyone needs to have an opinion on everything, even things that don't concern them. Because of how connected the world has become, it's just as easy to see the news about a country you can't even pronounce the name of, as it is to check your local weather. And if you don't pick a side in a war between two shithole countries halfway across the world, you're a social outcast at best, and an enemy at worst. *coughcoughukrainecoughcough*
But this doesn't just apply to major world events. It applies to smaller things too. How many of you have opinions about a government of a country you've never been to? Or the quality of life in places you've never lived? I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to have these kinds of opinions, just that it's basically expected that you do. Even if you otherwise wouldn't want to. Even though these things have zero impact on your life at all.

Which brings me to my next point. I don't think it's too big of an assumption to say that a lot of people on this website seem to be dissatisfied with their lives in one way or another. I truly believe that a person's worldview is shaped by their current situation and their past experiences. If a person's life is hell, well their worldview is probably not a very bright one. And why should it be? After all, your "world" is the life you're living. It's all you can see, touch and know for certain. In the past, it's all most people ever had to think about.
But now, that's no longer the case. Like I mentioned before, everyone is aware of everything that's going on around the world at all times. And everyone is pressured into forming an opinion on it. For people living in the western world, the idea of conflict and instability is something almost completely foreign. But the truth is that most of the world hasn't been as peaceful as the states or mainland Europe has these past few decades. Many of these countries are only gaining some sense of peace and stability right now.
It would come as a real shock to start hearing about constant conflict all over the world, when your entire life up to that point was spent in an environment completely removed from any of it. And if it comes during a time in your life where you yourself are already in a bad spot, then it's pretty easy to feel like the whole world is crashing down. After all, it's not just your life that's shit anymore, now the entire world seems to be fucked in new ways every day.

Lastly, I think it's important to talk about the specific troubles that define the millennial generation. Which is, from what I can tell, the generation many people on this website seem to belong to. Millennials (in the west at least) seemed to have been dealt the shit end of the stick in almost every way. Starting their adult lives right before a recession, being pressured into getting a university degree despite rising tuition costs and student loan debt, and being forced to take on low end jobs that used to be enough to sustain a living but are now not even enough to make rent, just to name a few. Many millennials were essentially forced to take on the world with the expectation that it would be the same world their parents inherited. They were inadequately prepared for the changing times, and now live mediocre lives because of it.
However, many millennials were also blessed with amazing childhoods. Experiencing the rise of countless new technologies and forms of entertainment that are taken for granted today. The whiplash of living the good life as a kid, only to become and adult and realize things don't work the way you were told they would, is enough taint anyone's worldview.
However what I think is most important in this case, is the fact that many millennials are past the point of no return by now. They're either too old, too in debt, or just too demotivated to make any sort of meaningful change that could turn their life around.
Combine that tainted worldview, lack of hope for the future, and constant overexposure to world events and pressure to pick a side, I can start to understand where the desire for collapse could come from.

When your life is shit and it's too late to do anything about it, I guess the only hope one could have of things getting better for them is if everything was just "reset." And when your constantly forced to hear about all the world's troubles, it doesn't seem to be that farfetched of a possibility sometimes.

Let me know what you all think.

 

[webgirlz]

two shithole countries

I agree with most of what you've said so far but I just wanted to point out how refering to any place you've never been to as a "shithole," can be really culturally insensitive lol. Ive seen too many people look down on underdeveloped countries, its frustrating lol

 

[webgirlz]

about why some people seem to want it so bad

already suuuuch a good point. I genuinely believe this has a lot to do with religious doomsday. Things like the rapture and the world ending. I guess it depends on who you're talking to but an extreme example of people like this are anti mask/vaxxers. They wanna believe so badly that they're not braindead, they'd rather believe that everyone who disagrees with them will bring about the end times. On a deeper sense, I think people believe and even secretly WISH for society to be completely ruined, because of self importance. They have no control over their own miserable lives, so theyd rather believe that a higher power like God or "the stars" are in charge of "resetting the universe" or whatever the fuck

 

[ignika98]

I agree with most of what you've said so far but I just wanted to point out how refering to any place you've never been to as a "shithole," can be really culturally insensitive lol. Ive seen too many people look down on underdeveloped countries, its frustrating lol

I haven't been to Ukraine or Russia specifically, but I've been around and lived in eastern Europe enough to know those countries tend to be shitholes lmao.

 

[webgirlz]

I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to have these kinds of opinions, just that it's basically expected that you do.

100% agree with this. There's literally no point in having opinions on things you have no direct impact on. I believe im a pretty socially aware person because things like my race just happen to affect me all the time. But things like Ukraine ? WTF does anyone gain from me taking time to educate myself about the topic?

 

[webgirlz]

I haven't been to Ukraine or Russia specifically, but I've been around and lived in eastern Europe enough to know those countries tend to be shitholes lmao.

I see what u mean, it's def true that many countries would be horrible to live in.

 

[webgirlz]

Many of these countries are only gaining some sense of peace and stability right now.

It's def true that the world has rarely ever been peaceful. However, I do believe that it's like, very, very bad right now. What Im about to say is gonna contradict what I said in an earlier reply but I dont blame people finding this world to be extremely hopeless - to the point of no saving. I guess the difference is i dont secretly hope for a collapse of some kind, I just ignore most things and try to focus on my own little life.

 

[webgirlz]

The whiplash of living the good life as a kid, only to become and adult and realize things don't work the way you were told they would, is enough taint anyone's worldview.

lol this reminds me of the insufferable "only 90s kids would remember" posts. But yes, millenials really are the last generation to have experienced "childhood" in the truest sense of the world.

 

[ignika98]

It's def true that the world has rarely ever been peaceful. However, I do believe that it's like, very, very bad right now. What Im about to say is gonna contradict what I said in an earlier reply but I dont blame people finding this world to be extremely hopeless - to the point of no saving. I guess the difference is i dont secretly hope for a collapse of some kind, I just ignore most things and try to focus on my own little life.

I'm not saying things are all good right now. But things can be bad while simultaneously not being so bad things can never recover.

 

[webgirlz]

I'm not saying things are all good right now. But things can be bad while simultaneously not being so bad things can never recover.

for sure. Personally, i believe the world will always be full of problems because that's what it exists for. Dont really think about or care for the idea of a "collapse" though

 

[Rebel]

Good read - You're right, I think many that do hope for societal collapse largely don't enjoy their own lives.
However, I think with so much of the bullshit that millenials put up with (as in me), it's easy to hate the world and long for collapse or a total reset, if not a big fuck you to the entire system.
There's probably many factors to it, but definitely some good insight in this post.

 

[Max Chill]

I would probably border between the millennial (the way my life went and how I was raised) and zoomer generation (categorically, I refuse to associate myself with them). I can say right now that I have a degree dissatisfaction in my life but I haven't wished for a societal collapse, I'm more leaning towards a revisionist approach; nothing radical, just gradual change. But one thing that I do hope to a certain level is the collapse of the internet, I see it to be that one radical step that can trigger something big to change in our lives. An internet collapse for the sake of reflection and rebuilding, not to wipe it away forever though. There are changes that are coming, one from Twitter which I trust you've come across as I type. It looks promising, but time will tell if it holds up.

The past two years gave me a good beating and was the first time I felt that my life was shit, as far as I've assessed myself these are doomer phases and I dismissed them as a "revolt of the flesh". Fast forward a year or two and I have gradually been starting to dissociate myself to society and the mainstream internet. It's not life that directly gives me a beating most of the time, but the grief of seeing people's shit takes as if I expected that people would finally have time to reflect since the pandemic. Many people like to pretend they know a lot, and that includes me; this I credit to the internet for its nature of rapidly proliferating information regardless of authenticity. Added to that we're passively and constantly fed with what people are doing with their lives in which I do not blame them for posting, but really I recommend ditching these sites. Part of the dissatisfaction we experience today can be duly credited to the mainstream social medias; it doesn't need you to pay direct attention to what people post about their lives, it just has to flash it on your face constantly and bit by bit it will somehow get to you. The best approach is to not see those at all, safe and simple.

For what lack of hope for the future that a good chunk of the millennials felt, I finally felt and empathized with it since 2020. I do not know how things will look like when things totally get back to normal without this "new normal" bullshit and masks. One thing's for sure, I won't be the same person when I go interact with my friends and acquaintances. And right now (my conjecture, likely amplified thanks to the caffeine crash that I'm still feeling) I honestly do not know where things will go from here because the future I see in front of my screen is "The future is now and it's fucking bleak." But a bleak future is no reason for me to just slump and give up.

My time that I'll spend >innawoods will change me further, I know it. But I know it's for the good, hopefully.

 

[ignika98]

For what lack of hope for the future that a good chunk of the millennials felt, I finally felt and empathized with it since 2020. I do not know how things will look like when things totally get back to normal without this "new normal" bullshit and masks. One thing's for sure, I won't be the same person when I go interact with my friends and acquaintances. And right now (my conjecture, likely amplified thanks to the caffeine crash that I'm still feeling) I honestly do not know where things will go from here because the future I see in front of my screen is "The future is now and it's fucking bleak." But a bleak future is no reason for me to just slump and give up.

The whole pandemic bullshit kicked my ass as well, and I ended up moving from Cyprus to Florida just to escape it all. Ever since I've moved it's been like Covid never even existed. Everything is normal here. It's great for me, but I do wonder how places that haven't moved on and ditched all the rules yet will fare whenever they decide to go back to normal. I know that Cyprus still has indoor and outdoor mask mandates, and you need to be up to date with your boosters to go out anywhere. It's hell and I feel bad for everyone I left behind there.

From what I can tell at least, a lot of other states in the US are getting rid of a lot of rules now as well which is good. Europe still seems to be dragging it's feet a bit though.

 

[Altghost]

For people living in the western world, the idea of conflict and instability is something almost completely foreign. But the truth is that most of the world hasn't been as peaceful as the states or mainland Europe has these past few decades.

It isn't about peacefulness in terms of lack of war, or level of corruption (in the sense of Canada/USA vs Russia). It's about the recent drive to hate one's own country & culture (in Canada/the states), as well as one's race (if you're white). It's the increase of luxury beliefs like "boys can be girls, and there are limitless genders", and 2022's version of racism (white people are inherently racist, and black people are perpetual victims).

I think there are other issues as well, such as increasing automation and digitalization of what used to take people out of the house every day. Things like going to the bank, speaking to a human on the phone, automated checkouts & shopping online... And there are a lack of opportunities to socialize and identify with a group, other than LGBTBBQSAUCE and nerd culture. Our culture also focuses on materialism and consumerism, constant buying to fill the void and signal you're worth something to other people.

Lastly, meritocracy seems to be dead-- at least in universities and school. I think there's a sense in some people with traits like loyalty, seeking truth, strong work ethic, etc. that things are pointless and overwhelmingly broken. Western society does not promote trying your best and thinking for yourself. It promotes coddling and participation trophy mentality.. very divorced from the competitiveness of the real world.

However, many millennials were also blessed with amazing childhoods. Experiencing the rise of countless new technologies and forms of entertainment that are taken for granted today. The whiplash of living the good life as a kid, only to become and adult and realize things don't work the way you were told they would, is enough taint anyone's worldview.

100% agree that this is part of it. As a millennial who had a relatively amazing childhood except for some family/personal things, part of this whiplash is that you go from being coddled for 18-20ish years... praised for so much as lifting a finger, and then suddenly you realize the world is competitive. You realize just how far behind you were, and that your frame of reference for "doing well" was so ill informed. I look back on elementary & school as fun. It was daycare, until the day I graduated.

However what I think is most important in this case, is the fact that many millennials are past the point of no return by now. They're either too old, too in debt, or just too demotivated to make any sort of meaningful change that could turn their life around.
Combine that tainted worldview, lack of hope for the future, and constant overexposure to world events and pressure to pick a side, I can start to understand where the desire for collapse could come from.

When your life is shit and it's too late to do anything about it, I guess the only hope one could have of things getting better for them is if everything was just "reset." And when your constantly forced to hear about all the world's troubles, it doesn't seem to be that farfetched of a possibility sometimes.

I'm not disagreeing with you, because there are a lot of reasons behind why people might *want* this and I think you're right about certain people. I think it's different from those who think it possibly *has to* happen at some point. So many people, especially in positions of power (such as in the medical, law making, and school systems) are detached from reality; if things were that dire, people would not be able to live like that anymore. "Microaggressions", "boys can be girls", participation trophies, would likely all disappear pretty quickly.

 

[Rebel]

It isn't about peacefulness in terms of lack of war, or level of corruption (in the sense of Canada/USA vs Russia). It's about the recent drive to hate one's own country & culture (in Canada/the states), as well as one's race (if you're white). It's the increase of luxury beliefs like "boys can be girls, and there are limitless genders", and 2022's version of racism (white people are inherently racist, and black people are perpetual victims).

I think there are other issues as well, such as increasing automation and digitalization of what used to take people out of the house every day. Things like going to the bank, speaking to a human on the phone, automated checkouts & shopping online... And there are a lack of opportunities to socialize and identify with a group, other than LGBTBBQSAUCE and nerd culture. Our culture also focuses on materialism and consumerism, constant buying to fill the void and signal you're worth something to other people.

Lastly, meritocracy seems to be dead-- at least in universities and school. I think there's a sense in some people with traits like loyalty, seeking truth, strong work ethic, etc. that things are pointless and overwhelmingly broken. Western society does not promote trying your best and thinking for yourself. It promotes coddling and participation trophy mentality.. very divorced from the competitiveness of the real world.



100% agree that this is part of it. As a millennial who had a relatively amazing childhood except for some family/personal things, part of this whiplash is that you go from being coddled for 18-20ish years... praised for so much as lifting a finger, and then suddenly you realize the world is competitive. You realize just how far behind you were, and that your frame of reference for "doing well" was so ill informed. I look back on elementary & school as fun. It was daycare, until the day I graduated.



I'm not disagreeing with you, because there are a lot of reasons behind why people might *want* this and I think you're right about certain people. I think it's different from those who think it possibly *has to* happen at some point. So many people, especially in positions of power (such as in the medical, law making, and school systems) are detached from reality; if things were that dire, people would not be able to live like that anymore. "Microaggressions", "boys can be girls", participation trophies, would likely all disappear pretty quickly.

I completely agree with you on this. It feels like the western world has so little problems that 'woke culture' has permeated, as an effort to have some sort of struggle, which all seem to be largely made up.
Stuff like this has made me just want to go innawoods, like Max Chill said.
I also understand what you mean about promotion of coddling, etc. I'm currently going through internship recruitment processes, and the 5+ rounds of games, pre-recorded interviews, assessments all asking the same stupid shit (how will you promote diversity, how you align with our values, what makes you want to work here) really just asks you to bullshit and pander to their view, when no one believes a word they're spewing.
It's not really about qualification, it's just pandering to the corporation and ultimately means nothing.
When it comes to the real world, you have to be a competitive bullshitter or you won't make it, sad fact.

 

[Rebel]

The whole pandemic bullshit kicked my ass as well, and I ended up moving from Cyprus to Florida just to escape it all. Ever since I've moved it's been like Covid never even existed. Everything is normal here. It's great for me, but I do wonder how places that haven't moved on and ditched all the rules yet will fare whenever they decide to go back to normal. I know that Cyprus still has indoor and outdoor mask mandates, and you need to be up to date with your boosters to go out anywhere. It's hell and I feel bad for everyone I left behind there.

From what I can tell at least, a lot of other states in the US are getting rid of a lot of rules now as well which is good. Europe still seems to be dragging it's feet a bit though.

I've still got public transport mask mandates where I'm from, but life largely feels the same now pre-pandemic.
I look at a lot of Asian countries (such as Japan) who still take COVID very seriously, seems pretty miserable, I think we've all had enough now.

 

[Lonely_Ghost]

Believing in society collapsing is a normal fear to have.
Wanting society to collapse is pussy bitch shit and makes you gay as hell

 

[Deleted member 3373]

Well I happen to be one of those people predicting collapse. And the issue of people living mediocre lives is a key indicator of societal collapse. Taking this generational view is not helpful in this scenario when it was a deep systemic problem that screwed up that age group. Said problem has not been solved for the next age group. Not everything in life can be put down to personal choice and that includes automation and overcompetition brought about by globalisation. That coupled with resource crises and environmental problems is a sure-fire recipe for a society nearing death. The only reason the system could save itself in past epochs is due to stronger national governments. But that no longer exists. Everything is now so global and change so rapid that government cannot save anything.

As for if I want it to happen? Well I certainly see a real opportunity to come up with new ways of living as well as undoing some of the social changes of the past 70 years. Of course that's an opportunity and not a guarantee. Ideologies don't form societies but rather change is usually a lot more organic. So I certainly see it as a good time for experimentation. Not sure if what will emerge will be "Good".

 

[赤い男]

Nothing bad would happen tbh, and time as always is going to give me the reason, enjoy life my friends, and don't think to much about society

 

[Deleted member 1930]

there's not gonna be "collapse" exactly. collapse implies (sort of) a valley compared to a societal peak. what's coming is not gonna be like that at all. it's not gonna be a collapse, we're headed toward apocalypse. things will largely be the same for a long time, until they aren't

this is the new normal, for the time being. we're never going back to how things were, the next era is going to be shit the world has never seen and very few are gonna make it out to the other side