Online friendships ruined my IRL connections (but not in a bad way?) - share your own experience w me!

[sticker]

tl;dr: I've been building online friendships since childhood, and now I find it challenging to connect with people I meet in real life. Have you experienced something similar?

I was 4 years old when I first got my computer and 7 when I first came across the internet. My dad got a computer from a friend and loaded it with a bunch of mini-games, putting 42 games in a folder called "games." I have no idea how he managed to find and bring that computer amidst our poverty. We didnt even have a desk to put the computer on. My mom placed the monitor on a two-drawer dresser. A large part of my childhood was spent playing games there. There was a program to learn touch typing and even a chatbot that would scold you for everything you typed.


When I turned 7, my monitor was replaced with a larger, thinner Inca monitor, and my dad got us an internet connection. I started buying games from a local store that sold torrent-loaded game CDs and spent most of my time playing them. I also entered the world of online games. At 8, I started playing MMORPGs and began spending most of my time riding bikes with my IRL friends and playing MMORPGs with them at home.


By the time I was 10, I had become addicted to MMORPGs. I still rode my bike, but most of my time was spent in front of the computer. It was around this time that my parents divorced, and I lived with my mom for a year in a computer-less environment. After a year of spending most of my time playing outside and socializing with friends, my dad moved to another city and took me with him. I started living in a city I didn't know, far from my friends, my mom, and everything I was used to. My dad would leave early in the morning and come back late at night, so I was mostly alone. I spent all my time on the internet, role-playing with people I met on Facebook. We were talking and chilling all day on Skype while playing games. It was fun at first, but then my interaction with games continued with MOBA. I started to become toxic, playing Dota 2 every day until the early hours of the morning. Everyone I met on Facebook had tough lives. They were all lost children who didn't receive the necessary attention and love from their families. We all trauma dumped on each other. Connecting with someone meant sharing all the pain you had experienced in your life, informing them about all your traumas, and knowing their deepest secrets. To become close friends with someone, all you needed was a night of messaging. And that was it—congrats, you became besties! As I grew older, I started to make more meaningful and positive friendships online, but the oversharing sessions continued to be an important phenomenon in forming friendships.

In my Highschool years I somehow create a small circle of friends who plays video games and basketball. We play basketball all day and then spend all the night playing games. So it was okay and fun, they were also using Facebook and had the same kind of humor as I had.

When I started university, I was shocked. Human relationships were nothing like what I had learned—they developed slowly and occasionally. Friendships weren't formed by discussing terms and conditions at the start. Everything was very vague and complicated. No one had a profile where you could see all of their opinions on all sorts of things; people couldn't tolerate different opinions and got angry when you tried to discuss ideas different from theirs. No trolling allowed! I was able to form friendships with people who didn't actively use the internet because I was a talkative and positive person, but something was off all the time. It felt like we perceived everything differently and spoke different languages. I was feeling like I had a mask around them, mimicking their behavior. This exhausted me over time, so after two months of active social interaction, I often found myself needing two months of staying at home, just playing games, and hanging out with my online friends.

Maintaining human relationships was very difficult since everything was so obscure, and eventually, I formed a circle where I maintained IRL connections with people I met online. I even met my romantic partner online, and after a while, we started to live together. While living together, the people we hung out with were also our internet friends. We tried to meet people outside the internet space, but it was very challenging. The questions we asked and the topics we brought up made us seem like we were talking about something absurd, and people reacted to them strangely. The discussion habits brought by the internet weren't as accepted in real life, making people feel insecure and stressed. After 4 years of living with my partner, playing games and hanging out on discord at home, and working online, we broke up, and I moved to another city. Here, I pushed myself to make IRL connections, but everything felt so fake. I thought everything was fine, but in the end, I felt so exhausted, so drained. I don't want to see anyone anymore. I don't feel safe around them. I feel like there is a glass in front of me, and it makes me feel like we are all playing roles. Ahh, I don't even want to mention the romantic stuff! I hate the flirting phase. It feels so awkward; they say unnecessary things and play a role. I can clearly see it. I always find myself telling them, "ehehe, I'm autistic, sorry, ehehe, I feel awkward now," and if I sense even a little bit of fakeness—which happens almost every time—I get the ick and want to get rid of them ASAP.

Now I think IRL or online doesn't matter, we are a bunch of autistic people here. We don't run across each other easily in real life because I believe many other people like me have the same issues when it comes to first interactions. I will not try to push IRL connections anymore. I already have friends; there's no need to feel awkward. The perception of "normal" varies by society. And I believe the people I met online are part of a different kind of society that has different kind of connections than those who don't use the internet as often as I do. This is the way we connect.

I would like to hear about your thoughts on this.

 

[morus]

weirdo

 

[灰の男性]

When I started university, I was shocked. Human relationships were nothing like what I had learned—they developed slowly and occasionally. Friendships weren't formed by discussing terms and conditions at the start. Everything was very vague and complicated. No one had a profile where you could see all of their opinions on all sorts of things; people couldn't tolerate different opinions and got angry when you tried to discuss ideas different from theirs. No trolling allowed! I was able to form friendships with people who didn't actively use the internet because I was a talkative and positive person, but something was off all the time. It felt like we perceived everything differently and spoke different languages. I was feeling like I had a mask around them, mimicking their behavior. This exhausted me over time, so after two months of active social interaction, I often found myself needing two months of staying at home, just playing games, and hanging out with my online friends.

Hmph, To this I advice being calm and patient when dealing with others. I also recommend being polite to others. Or just find people who don't care.

No one had a profile where you could see all of their opinions on all sorts of things

Just learn OSINT and data-mine POIs. Here is a Guide and an awesome list.
Or maybe relationships on the net are just superior.

 

[sticker]

Hmph, To this I advice being calm and patient when dealing with others. I also recommend being polite to others. Or just find people who don't care.

Just learn OSINT and data-mine POIs. Here is a Guide and an awesome list.
Or maybe relationships on the net are just superior.

I cant put an effort to stalk people I met IRL. And it would negatively affect my bipolar since I am kind of a person who tend to obsessed with anything in my manic periods, and it is better not to feed these obsessions with more information

 

[INGSOC]

I've somewhat experienced something similar. I was a very social (albeit odd) child before the age of twelve, and didn't really rely on the internet all that much. I mostly used it to message people I knew in person when we couldn't meet up. I'd say during middle school I became a lot more involved with the internet. I became much more aware of the ins and outs of online interaction and garnered quite a lot of online friends, which became somewhat noticeable as I detached from some of my in-person connections to handle things going on online. I remember secluding myself during a sleepover because someone was writing rude things in my private messages.

By the time I was fourteen my in-person friend group was small. Not because I was online, but because my weirdness and their weirdness began to diverge. They saw me as a scary and hateful person because I struggled to fit in with their interests in things like musicals or bubbly cosplays on TikTok. I felt like the expectations they had for me were infantilizing; I didn't want to act how they acted, but I still wasn't on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I fit into an uncomfortable area where I was too odd for the majority of the people around me, and, to be blunt, all of the autistic people around me who I would normally be able to get along with suddenly had the perspective that I was either too much of a snowflake and needed to toughen up, or that I was a cruel wannabe-conservative who would one day snap and start calling everyone around me slurs. So I got ostracized and focused my efforts almost exclusively online. The same problems persisted, but it was easier for me to seek out and find those who didn't make immediate assumptions about me. And I had no in-person friends for the next four years. Gay people thought I was homophobic, homophobic people thought I was gay. Racists thought I was a liberal, liberals thought I was racist. Nobody ever spoke to me, though.

Now I'm an adult, finally moving out, and trying to establish in-person relationships. And I feel the same way about there being a glass wall. I know a lot of people now who see me as a friend, who hang out with me, who have long talks with me, but I feel so far away from them that the most I can feel towards them is "person who I know IRL." I know the self awareness I have that they don't know who I am and will never know stops a lot of emotional intimacy from forming. It's all very surface level in order to not offend their sensibilities. And I know a part of the problem is me being unreasonable. But I can't bring myself to trust people in person. I always have the idea that they're going to hurt me or abandon me if I'm just too sincere, because I can't hide behind an avatar, and I just have it in my head that people who look like me can't be too sincere or assertive. It might gross them out. So in-person friendships just feel so superficial, even though I want them so badly. I fantasize a lot about eventually being able to exist as myself in the real world. That might only be possible if I move in with the people I've met online, which is likely to happen, as there are already plans in motion to do so, with two major backup plans.

The connection and security that online friendships have given me has certainly ruined my IRL relationships as well, but I guess I differ in that I do see it as a bad thing. But at the same time, I'm unsure. If I hadn't ever become attached to the internet, would I still be lonely and detached? Or would I feel more comfortable, less aware of my differences, more in-tune with how other people behave? I don't know. But I wish I was the type of person who could find comfort in in-person relationships, regardless of whether or not I just ended up this way or if it was a direct result of online reliance.

 

[sticker]

The connection and security that online friendships have given me has certainly ruined my IRL relationships as well, but I guess I differ in that I do see it as a bad thing. But at the same time, I'm unsure. If I hadn't ever become attached to the internet, would I still be lonely and detached? Or would I feel more comfortable, less aware of my differences, more in-tune with how other people behave? I don't know. But I wish I was the type of person who could find comfort in in-person relationships, regardless of whether or not I just ended up this way or if it was a direct result of online reliance.

I totally have the same thoughts. I wish I could see the alternative life of mine where my dad never brings the pc to our house, or I never move to my dad. But I guess we will never know its effects on our life

 

[Some_porcupine]

I totally have the same thoughts. I wish I could see the alternative life of mine where my dad never brings the pc to our house, or I never move to my dad. But I guess we will never know its effects on our life

Maybe we can name this symptom, like fear of abandoned but reversed, Oidipus Complex reversed
Such cases are called Nova effect, after a dog that run away and caused hijinks, bad-but good... (So in this case, reversed, it is, like, bad...)

 

[BarnSwallow]

ehehe, I'm autistic, sorry, ehehe

Oh don't worry buddy, we can tell.

Jokes aside, you sound very similar to my closest friend, autism and all. We sometimes talk about this stuff as well, so you sure as hell aren't alone in thinking it. It feels near impossible to forge new bonds in adulthood without serious effort. I'd go insane if it wasn't for all the chill people on the internet.

 

[i_am]

i find that if you're stuck in the pit of online friends, then it's a chicken or the egg situation. are you unable to make friends bc your an online loser or are you an online loser because you can't make friends? i believe the it's a bit of both. i'd love to have irl friends but as someone with an incredibly niche personality with various mental conditions; it's downright impossible, and even if it was it just wouldn't be appealing.

i have to put in 10x the effort in to do what others do without thinking. socializing is supposed to be relaxing, yet to me it's like a multiple-choice game on a timer where i must pick the best dialogue choice so i dont lose. what's the point of getting and maintaining a friendship if it's something that's incredibly taxing for you? None.

Ain't no way i'm going to feel "less alone" by having a bunch of depressed annoying neurotypicals in my phone DMs talking about shit i'm not interested in. i like deep friendships with people i can talk to all day with; you're not getting that with an NT whatsoever in 99% of cases.

it is undeniable that missing milestones of social development makes it harder and that's why i gave up. it's not obtainable for me nor is it appealing to me.

 

[Aral]

To be honest, it's not that online friendships have made me unable to connect with IRL, but more like, I don't feel like I have a lot of common interests with people around me. It always feels like people are preoccupied with vastly different things on average. I don't give a shit about pop culture, hookups, or sports, or whatever. People lose my respect beyond the basic courtesies when they show that they have no curiosity, nor desire to question themselves or anything else. You know, those people who don't know basic history facts, basic geography, basic general knowledge and look at you with wide eyes when you talk about these things. I also lose respect for those who are addicted to social media and are glued to their phones 24/7, or who have a shitty music taste, or tacky sense of humour. I feel like a huge narcissist saying that but there aren't that many I feel I can truly have an intelligent conversation with. I need people who have a brain, and it's not all that common. It's super lonely, honestly, but online, I can find these sorts of people who likely experience the same. But it doesn't always help with feeling alienated.

Even within my own communities, I felt like an outsider. I was a horse girl in childhood but most horse girls seemed to be more focused on the horse as a means to an end (winning prizes in competitions, among others), whereas I was in for the companionship. I didn't care about performance, expensive saddles, or whatever, I was the only one to talk to my horse and caring for it after the lesson, and apparently this was weird. In riding clubs I was often disliked for this reason and didn't realize why until I became an adult. In my Azur Lane guild, I definitely feel a "gap" in the sense that they're very nice people, but they're into anime boobas and like hentai, while for me... not that much. I'm in here for the ships more than the boobs and ass. Many of them don't even know the history behind the shipfus. And it feels fucking bad when you express that you're sad that a character you really like, well 90% of the fanart of her shows her scantily clad if not straight up getting fucked in a disgusting way, and you get basically dismissed because it's a waifu game that relies heavily on fanservice.

I also experienced some really bad shit in human relationships, starting from family, so I've got some awful trust issues that were partially from what I was taught as a kid. Further bad experiences as a teenager and in my very early adulthood, that led me to where I am now, pretty much a shut-in for 6 years though it's getting slowly better, didn't help at all. With online friends, there's a distance I can keep, so to speak, despite knowing that it's not really that healthy. It prevents me from getting truly close. I wish I could get close to another IRL, but I just don't know how, and it scares me to no end because I'm terrified of the seemingly normal/nice person turning suddenly into an abuser. That one bad action and they'll turn against me. Or that given a choice, they will choose to betray me, or that I just have no place in their life, that I'm kinda a prop to be paraded at best, and a mildly annoying burden at worst. If I'm not close this cannot affect me too much.

I can keep my online friends in my pocket or in my laptop, also. In case of a move, I don't lose them. And again, moved so much in my childhood that I literally had no friendships that lasted more than a year and a half, or perhaps two, maybe. I was dealt shitty cards from the start and now I'm just at a loss as how to have normal IRL relationships that last without me bolting at the slightest suspicion or just outgrowing the other, or the other person throwing me under the bus at some point/turning against me in a few worst cases.

 

[i_am]

People lose my respect beyond the basic courtesies when they show that they have no curiosity, nor desire to question themselves or anything else.

nothing is more disappointing than meeting someone who seemingly shares something you like but once you try digging deeper you find out they have literally no thoughts except "it's cool" and just consume merch of it or something.

I also experienced some really bad shit in human relationships, starting from family, so I've got some awful trust issues that were partially from what I was taught as a kid. Further bad experiences as a teenager and in my very early adulthood, that led me to where I am now, pretty much a shut-in for 6 years though it's getting slowly better, didn't help at all. With online friends, there's a distance I can keep, so to speak, despite knowing that it's not really that healthy. It prevents me from getting truly close. I wish I could get close to another IRL, but I just don't know how, and it scares me to no end because I'm terrified of the seemingly normal/nice person turning suddenly into an abuser. That one bad action and they'll turn against me. Or that given a choice, they will choose to betray me, or that I just have no place in their life, that I'm kinda a prop to be paraded at best, and a mildly annoying burden at worst. If I'm not close this cannot affect me too much.

aside from how uninteresting people tend to be, you also bring up abuse. People are assholes, 99% of them--intentional or not. being a nice, thoughtful, interesting and caring person just gets you used and abused. you inevitably put up walls so they'll piss off, then even that starts getting lonely.

 

[Caspar]

I would like to hear about your thoughts on this.

Had a couple Internet friends growing up. Only one I remained close with until recently. As adults, we met up and got along well, but he ended up developing a compulsion to waste his money on expensive toys (cars, guns, gear, etc.) rather than commit to the long-term promise we had made to buy and develop land together. Ended up calling me begging for money to buy another car, and I just got fed up with it.

I don't really do the 'friends' thing anymore. I have some acquaintances still, but, mostly, I live to work (I at least find some meaning and enjoyment out of my work). I'd like to do more meaningful things, but I've consistently found people to be too fake, too gay, or too much of a pussy to actually do them.

I'll continue to tell people that it's the 'death of God' and that Nietzsche was right, and they'll continue to call me whatever retarded insult they can find. It is what it is.

Thanks powerful people of the last century; you did a great job fucking the life out of society and making an open air, bubble-wrap prison.

Well Jesus, that was depressing, but those are my thoughts. Sorry bub, you were born at a bad time.

 

[willhelpme]

If you truly get down it around 81% of the planet are NPCs, in some way, shape or form. Less than one out of ten people you meet at random will ever have anything in their life that is a true passion that moves them from their depths to ascent.

The rest are content with the most basic resonance.

Reading this thread and the OPs inception made me realize why so much of the new gen seem off to me. Its one thing imagining life via a screen when you were raised running free but seeing it repped in text offers a fresh insight from one who lived it. Sounds depressing, as expected. Pixels cannot approximate connection in any meaningful way because, in the end, you're still lonely except now you're all doing it together.

They say never meet your heroes or you will be disappointed and this can be extended to online friends as well, I guess, because this is an imperfect medium and thus we fill in a lot with imagination and people can never truly measure up to the image we create in our heads. Sucks that you came up in a time of weaponized loneliness that became standardized across a generation that was then further amped by the world being a mess that further fractured as you developed.

Back when, in the days of BBS, you'd get to know who was who on the scene via handle or rep and then someone would hack a PBX and you'd have a whole bunch of previous screen names speaking on the line at the same time with their regional accents, stories and the rest. Was way, way more organic which is why I said I can't relate to the example here because just that added nuance of the full voice to back up the digital text was game changing and if you actually met there was already way more resonance built in.

You'd dial in and it would be one bunch of people talking on a random topic then slide out and by the time you came back it would be a different blend before the switch tripped and you carried on online instead looking for the next privilege escalation. Was such a great blend of old and new tech and that is what I feel is really missing from all of this for the new kids on the chip. Well, that and the fact the net is dead and most of them are talking to bots and karma farming etc.. People even sent letters when mail trading and loads of random little blips that added to the human element that modern kids don't even suspect exists but most certainly miss.

Like I said, weird flex.

 

[sungen]

There was a time in my life where I could relate. I've never been super social so most of my personal relationships were either formed online or super early on in life with other terminally-online turbo autists. Most of my friends in middle and high school were playing MapleStory, and I was a long-time Mapler so we just kinda clicked. However, I'd argue that making friends doesn't really have to be hard, that fakeness that gets brought up a lot is something I get, but it's one of those things that you have to put up with until you reach a point of depth with someone that you can toe into being genuine. Not to say that you should build up a persona or a façade, because trust me, I used to as well and it was not only exhausting, but also I ended up never being able to drop it because they liked my façade me more than the bits and pieces of real me that I'd put in.

I think a huge problem, especially for people who have experimented with weird hobbies, or use niche ways to communicate like underground internet forums , or do really anything that requires them to step and stay outside of what society as a whole would consider as normal is to refer to other as NPCs or build up some sort of "elitism" by being weird, obtuse, or socially unavailable, regardless of whether you do it on purpose or as a coping mechanism. I'm not entirely sure on the mental or social-psychology behind it and I'm not going to pretend that I do, but if you're (I'm referring to the overarching You, not anyone in the thread) struggling to making connections because they're "NPCs" or whatever, it might help to realize that in order to make any substantial connection you're going to have to get through the initial fake phase unless their similar flavor of 'tism tastes something like yours. A lot of normies have relatively boring hobbies, they don't know the nuances of different synthesizers used in the 90s for underground German EBM music or whatever, they like simpler stuff most of the time, and that's not a bad thing but it's just going to be something you have to expect if you want to make friends in person.

Remember, the tongue is a muscle just like any other, it needs to be constantly worked out to refine your control, locking yourself to e-communication could limit your exposure. So go out there and make an ass out of yourself until you learn how to not.

aside from how uninteresting people tend to be, you also bring up abuse. People are assholes, 99% of them--intentional or not. being a nice, thoughtful, interesting and caring person just gets you used and abused. you inevitably put up walls so they'll piss off, then even that starts getting lonely.

Also being nice helps, do you know how many people I've hit it off with by just being nice, genuine, and invested in their life? Even if we don't stay friends it's an easy way to test the water.

 

[Digital Cheese]

Idk, in my case I kinda just don't care. I'm sure I could make more frens if I wanted to IRL, but I only need one or two IRL frens anyways, so who cares. That and outside the fren I have IRL, most of it just doesn't even feel real. Nearly every "normal" person, at least considering the year I was born, seems beyond braindead to me. Now admittedly im only 15 so its not surprising, Gen Z has proven itself time and time again to be either full-retard or full-based, however I just have no reason to make new IRL frens. Most of my frens are online as a result, especially since thats where I spend most of my free time.

Normie conversations are highly, and I mean *highly* predictable. If I really wanted to, I could think of a few phrases and then have words you'd need to replace for the event, but it would describe the average conversation. Usually it's normie jokes (such as "haha sex so original guys ong"), celebrity worship discussion, drama more petty than 3DSPaint, consoomerism, etc. Pretty much none of which interests me. Technology and memes interest me yes, but normalfags aren't discussing the newest schizo memes in real time, Agora is. Normalfags aren't talking about tech unless it's consoomerism whereas 3DSPaint and Agora are actively discussing tech related stuff, along with a plethora of other websites.

Since all my social-media accounts are inactive outside of my Twitter (which is essentially on hiatus until I learn both French and German finally), and almost all of them will likely get deleted soon, if they haven't already, I have essentially freed myself from that. Now it's mostly forums and other small sites I use alongside email, IRC, and XMPP. If you want more IRL frens, then it's pretty easy to make them, but there's no point in connecting for the sake of connecting, outside maybe business related stuff, but by that point it's probably not a friendship and instead just money/business matters, which I'd argue is usually seperate or should be considered seperately.

In my case, I usually won't consider someone (online or IRL) a fren unless they are almost ride or die, so unless they start molesting children on an island, I'll be their fren. I could add many who I'd deem an aquaintence, but I'd argue that's pointless because almost all of the people who could be added to the list I wouldn't interact with outside of wherever I met them, unless I had *very* good reason. Sure, humans are very social unfortunately, but I just don't get phased by a lack of social interaction. Probably never will, I just don't care for it that much.

 

[Midwest]

Whether you believe in God or evolution (or both), we were designed to be social creatures. Just read about Harlow's rhesus monkey experiments. The basic gist is that monkeys are social creatures, and that the bond between the mother and child is extremely critical for emotional, mental, and physical development. Without that bond, the monkeys became violent, irritable, anxious, would resort to self-harm, and other unusual behaviors you wouldn't see in infant monkeys. What this says is that human connection is a constant need, it's not something that just goes away or diminishes with age. We don't just "grow out of" a need for connection or intimacy. And so this is where the real danger of "friendship simulators" like "online friendships" or video games (Animal Crossing, the Sims) AI (character.ai), and other vehicles for simulated intimacy (fanfiction, roleplaying, etc) are a real danger.
You are outsourcing that very important need we all have inside us to an object. I'm doing this, everyone is doing this. I can't look an AI in the eyes, I can't share special moments and form memories with someone online the same way I can with someone in real life. I can't hug, touch, kiss, or smell a character from the Sims, nor can I be nostalgic or longing for the "taste" of that kiss (because there is no somatosensory information being transferred between that object and me).

Now I'm an adult, finally moving out, and trying to establish in-person relationships. And I feel the same way about there being a glass wall. I know a lot of people now who see me as a friend, who hang out with me, who have long talks with me, but I feel so far away from them that the most I can feel towards them is "person who I know IRL." I know the self awareness I have that they don't know who I am and will never know stops a lot of emotional intimacy from forming. It's all very surface level in order to not offend their sensibilities. And I know a part of the problem is me being unreasonable. But I can't bring myself to trust people in person. I always have the idea that they're going to hurt me or abandon me if I'm just too sincere, because I can't hide behind an avatar, and I just have it in my head that people who look like me can't be too sincere or assertive. It might gross them out. So in-person friendships just feel so superficial, even though I want them so badly. I fantasize a lot about eventually being able to exist as myself in the real world. That might only be possible if I move in with the people I've met online, which is likely to happen, as there are already plans in motion to do so, with two major backup plans.

This really hurts because I relate with this a lot on a deeply personal level. I ended up being very anxious and afraid because of how I was raised as a child, so it was very hard for me to form friendships even as a child. I can't form meaningful connections with people because I'm always tip-toeing around on glass, wary of myself and my thoughts and their perception of me. I've been abandoned several times and every time I would retreat to the Internet where it was "safe." I see beautiful relationships, families, friendships at my job, at church, and I always think to myself what it would have been like had I just been born "normal." One problem about my personality is I can never say "no." So I always end up "agreeing" with someone even if internally I disagree because I'm always afraid that they'll hurt me in some way. So even if I wanted to be my true self it's incredibly hard to do so. I'd have to unlearn a lot of bad habits and really re-learn what a relationship looks like...

 

[LostintheCycle]

I don't really do the 'friends' thing anymore. I have some acquaintances still, but, mostly, I live to work (I at least find some meaning and enjoyment out of my work). I'd like to do more meaningful things, but I've consistently found people to be too fake, too gay, or too much of a pussy to actually do them.

You get it.. I just wish I was able to actually shake off the desire to be social, instead of just wishing I could. It would be much easier that way.
I always thought I was introverted, but that's not true. I want to talk with other people. But right as this happened! everyone suddenly turns inwards, and not in an interesting way, but in a 'hang out on Discord and play games all day' way.
Some say you have to get past a fake phase of a relationship. What is up with that? Why should I prostrate myself in this awful dance with other people to get anywhere? I've done that myself, and it might have helped me get on with some people in casual conversation, but it hasn't helped me make any decent friends. Sometimes I have to get drunk to talk to people effectively; the only friend I've made in my two years at university happened when I came to class plastered on a third of whiskey while coping with my family falling apart; and still, I question if he really considers me a friend.

---

I've been trying to learn how I can talk to people, like I'm learning a new programming language or something. I read some articles, go out and try to practice what I learned, it seems fine until an hour later I'm sitting there wondering why the fuck am I listening to this guy talk about some video game I don't care about? This technique of indulging the other persons ego sometimes works like magic, yet I don't feel like it's brought me closer to the genuine friendship I've been chasing for ages.
Am I treating socialization too much like a practicable thing of skill and technique or like a game, rather than something that just comes to you? I didn't have much success before I tried all this, and still don't. Maybe I haven't done it long enough? Maybe I haven't met the right people? Is there some other approach I could take or something holding me back? I don't know, this is all a stupid game. I'd rather stop playing. Actually I had that precise thought at the start of this year and thought maybe I should try to interact with people at a minimum, but then I felt hopeful and wanted to change that. But I have reaped nothing.
In spirit with the original post, for me it wasn't really the Internet, which I didn't get free reign on until I was a preteen. I was an avid reader since very young, lived an isolated childhood until we settled in one place. I read a lot of books. I took keenly to writing at some point, I wanted to be a novelist at one point. I still did writing as a teen, stories here and there and poetry sometimes, and my infamous diary from when I was 14. It was at 100,000+ words by the time I accidentally deleted it. I used it heavily for analyzing myself, my thought patterns. If my diaries were never deleted, I'd be at 160,000+ words today.
My self expression has always been in writing... never in speaking. A similar question arises; did I take to writing so keenly because I could not communicate well in speaking, or did I speak poorly because my preferred expression was in writing? I'm not sure.

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In short: I've recognized that I've got issues with socializing and thought about it a bit, I decided to try to fix it and try to be more socially active, but nothing really changed. I desire social connection but struggle to achieve it, and wish I could just not desire it.
I hope someday I can bring something constructive or at least hopeful to this topic.
Yeah, we all are pretty bad at socializing... it's not much of a surprise, after all we are talking online instead of with people face to face. I don't even know if normal people do that though.

 

[Caspar]

Am I treating socialization too much like a practicable thing of skill and technique or like a game, rather than something that just comes to you?

Talking to people is a practicable skill. Socialization, in the sense of making a connection, relies on talking but, ultimately, you aren't going to make a connection to someone who is too fundamentally different from you. For me, when I got into activism 6 years ago, I found a lot of likeminded people who I got along with pretty decently. That led to going to church and, to this day, I still have people I have some kind of connection with. My only trouble there is that I can't believe Christianity to be true anymore. I still hang out with them periodically, go drinking, do whatever, but while we agree on our general perspective of the world, our explanations/conclusions diverge a good deal.

Part of the reason I detest the government with such vehemence is that it was they who decided to cajole the banks and social media companies into censoring my neck of the woods, on top of gov't classics like sending agent provocateurs to incite people to break the law, and entrapping people. All those friendships I was making at one time, all the times we had together came down like a lead balloon.

I do genuinely, completely believe that the government makes a particular point of eliminating all cultural movements, all community-building that could lead people to make real connections. They do this entirely because real connections rely on talking about real things, not just the latest consumable product. People like that will eventually want to challenge the status quo, because they have their own ideas about how things could be done. I know I sure do.

Aside from me riding my hobby-horse, you need to remember that not all the connections you make will be perfect connections. Many people I've known, I'd be happy to be around though I know we aren't 1:1 on everything. It's simply that the people you associate with need to agree on the basic premises that you center your life and thoughts around. Otherwise, it'll feel like pissing in the wind. ~~ lol, that's what it felt like for me this Friday when I went out to drink with my coworkers.

Don't assume that trying to sell your soul out to reach normalcy is your path to the Elysian fields.

 

[i_am]

Some say you have to get past a fake phase of a relationship. What is up with that?

The best connections I've had always started out strong, I didn't have to spend months putting in effort to get along before we finally bonded. Most people are as simple as they seem, it's not worth trying to dig deeper; you'll get nothing and burn yourself out doing so.

it seems fine until an hour later I'm sitting there wondering why the fuck am I listening to this guy talk about some video game I don't care about?

I feel this a lot. The issue for me isn't so much that it's impossible to get a 'friendship', so much as it's not worth the squeeze. I tried being honest about myself, like all the niche things I'm into and how I actually feel about things but people just don't understand or care. It leads to you essentially becoming a robot that gasses their ego up as you craft a non-threatening persona for them to interact with by omitting and lying about parts of yourself.

Unfortunately there are far too many times where I get burnt out and realize this when I decide to stop initiating conversations like this. The people who were happy to interact with me daily didn't care to engage with me when I suddenly stopped putting in the effort. At best maybe 4 weeks later or whatever when they're bored or drunk or something, they'll suddenly decide to text you with a hollow "Hi sorry 'bout that".

I don't believe there's a solution to this, you just have to cope with loneliness while advertising your true self out there so maybe you'll catch some genuine connections eventually.

Am I treating socialization too much like a practicable thing of skill and technique or like a game, rather than something that just comes to you? I didn't have much success before I tried all this, and still don't. Maybe I haven't done it long enough? Maybe I haven't met the right people? Is there some other approach I could take or something holding me back? I don't know, this is all a stupid game.

This is why I firmly believe social skills to be a pre-determined thing that can't be changed. It's not something you're supposed to think about it at all, it's meant to be natural like breathing without thinking. If you find yourself having to play some tell-tale ass game for every conversation then I consider it to be an uphill battle I'd recommend you give up on. If someone wanted to, I'm sure they could learn how to intellectually mimic a naturally social person, but it wouldn't be worth it. You're putting in 500% more effort for something that's not even enjoyable. It's a net negative.

 

[stance]

I've had plenty of online friends. Found roommates online before, from spaces like these and IRC. Even met my wife online. What I like about finding people online is that it's much easier to find people who I can relate with -- most people are bars, churches, workplaces are very shallow. (But not all!) Like you, there's been times in my life where most people in my "offline" social life were people I initially met online.

Almost every online friend I've met offline has been great because we just click and vibe and we can be nerds on the level. Except there was one guy who invited me over to drink and hang out and he tried to pin me down and kiss/grope me after a few drinks. Gave him a good few punches and took off, wanted to trash his place but decided against it.

For a long time there was a distinction between "normies" and "internet people." But now almost everyone is online to some degree, I've met all kinds of normies who go on >reddit and 4chan.

There are plenty of people with interests and personalities and intelligence to be found by navigating through "normy" social structures. Just takes time. I've found fellow travelers (IRT not being totally shallow and boring people, people with passions and curiosity) in art circles and the Freemasons, back in the US. After moving halfway across the world, I've found a lot of pals through the Buddhist associations -- people who like philosophy and such.

It's good to diversify the kinds of friends you have, imo. I have friends to play sports, friends to play board games, friends to talk about philosophy and politics, friends to make music with, friends to volunteer with. If literally everyone I knew IRL were a mouthbreathing NPC I'd probably just be a permaonline shut-in but some "NPCs" can turn out to have hidden depths once you get to know them.

Fuck adults who never grew out of their middle school phase and are always trying to make drama though. I can deal with kind of boring and shallow people but have no tolerance for toxic wo/manchildren