Online friendships ruined my IRL connections (but not in a bad way?) - share your own experience w me!

[stance]

http://www.demon-sushi.com/warning/index2.html Online-offline interactions have always been interesting to me

 

[Andy Kaufman]

http://www.demon-sushi.com/warning/index2.html Online-offline interactions have always been interesting to me

View: https://youtu.be/btp7oPP2AwI?si=KC8e76PA-2AytXRv

 

[Andy Kaufman]

tried to pin me down and kiss/grope me after a few drinks. Gave him a good few punches and took off, wanted to trash his place but decided against it.

Aren't you like 2m tall and know boxing and BJJ?
Not prime rape victim material lol.

On topic:
I always had a good relationship to both offline and online friends because I need both. Online I can have a persona and talk to (at the end of the day) anonymous strangers about very emotional and personal issues. Online people have the benefit of being unbiased on your past because they don't know about it and my online friends also don't judge me (or at least very differntly) than IRL friends do. Sometimes I feel like I need a double life: one online where I can be wierd and one IRL where... I'm still wierd but kinda differntly than I'd be online. Hard to put into words.
So in some twisted way, the two kinds of friends make me more balanced overall.

and to add to what @stance said: I too only made positive experiences with meeting random online strangers. @lain is here didn't try to rape me when we met up in Japan but I also met several other people from shady websites/communities that all turned out to be pretty chill and some of them remain firends of mine to this day.
And if we count online dating, I've met with random online strangers plenty of times and the worst thing that happened was an awkward date becaues the girl didn't talk much.

But I still very much like the distinction of online and offline friends and having both. Having people to talk to that are not as terminally online as I am and doing things with them IRL keeps me grounded. And for stuff like TTRPGs playing online sucks compared to sitting at an actual table.

 

[Void]

I have the opposite issue in that I struggle to form friendships with others online when I can do it in person with ease. For some reason I struggle to type in a chat box or talk into a mic when I could easily communicate in person. I'm not sure why, but I wish I could talk to others in a form free from my presence where I could be true to myself.

 

[BarnSwallow]

http://www.demon-sushi.com/warning/index2.html Online-offline interactions have always been interesting to me

I worked hard to forget that, and I'll be dammed if I let my brain cells remember it again.

 

[SolidStateSurvivor]

This is an interesting perspective because I was in a position similar to yours but I've largely come to inverse realizations. Online connections like that just aren't worth pursuing or maintaining (for the most part.) I've been actively trying to get someone I care about irl to get away from relying on online socialization so I am interested in what you have to say in response to critiques of it, there's a lot of similarities between you and my friend, especially when it comes to moving in with a partner met online. So apologies in advance if I project a bit of their circumstances/and my own onto yours, I don't mean to come across as a dick in my insistence that you reverse course.

In high school I was a shitlord loner, super pessimistic and terrible at proper socialization. If you're on this forum odds are you were probably at this stage of life at one point or another. In freshman year I got a school issued iPad, first online device that wasn't the family PC, and met some people online in a scene/clique, same sort of moody trauma dumping bullshit OP described + non-stop irony. In hindsight it was a terrible environment to be in as an impressionable teenager and it only further socially handicapped me at the time. It was almost like a death cult with how self perpetuating the cycle of depression and wallowing was. I check back in on those people from a distance every so often, and all these years later they're all either still like that or worse. For my one IRL friend I'm trying to get out of this online shit, they've also noticed the same trends just watching people in their discord servers slowly go insane (or rather, make their insanity publicly known.)

With online friends and groups it was nice to feel heard or cared about, but relying on it so much (or in your case, exclusively) will come at the expense of missed experiences and missed connections. You're inherently stuck inside or trapped looking at your phone to maintain it, it's not healthy, there is no personal growth to be gained from it. It's not that online socialization ruined IRL stuff in a "good way," rather you've grown content with this situation, it's a comfortable routine. It's like smoking pot everyday because it makes you feel good; you swear that you're happy because of it and it's totally not a bad addicting habit because of that feeling.

Sure there were some good times and laughs with my online friends, but I can't help but wonder what I missed out on irl as a result, I used to kick myself for the wasted time. But here I am as an adult, living a really active and kinda crazy life and having a blast in the process, just sort of making up those lost years. I would strongly advise you try and get out and about, especially if you're still young.

Here, I pushed myself to make IRL connections, but everything felt so fake. I thought everything was fine, but in the end, I felt so exhausted, so drained. I don't want to see anyone anymore. I don't feel safe around them. I feel like there is a glass in front of me, and it makes me feel like we are all playing roles.

You're essentially describing the practice of masking. It drains me as well but the more you do it the easier it gets to wade through normies and find fellow nerds, fun weirdos, and chill peeps. Even the people who seem like normies mask to an exent, took me a few conversations with someone to learn they also had their own Neocities site! People can be full of surprises.
The normie memes are real to an extent but as I've always said not all normies are bad and you shouldn't inherently write them off/assert your own moral superiority. If you're only finding annoying/fake normies IRL then try and find some more offbeat hangout spots. Go through Google Maps in your area and just start saving interesting places you'd like to visit someday, parks, restaurants, etc, gives you plenty to do in a pinch if you're bored, and if it's a place you want to visit odds are their will be some likeminded folks there too. Give yourself a small little goal with each place you go to, like trying a new food or talking to someone, for me it's to take a nice photo to put onto Snapchat.
I've made a really diverse group of friends just going to kava bars, and they're a great spot to do online stuff at if you have a laptop. Keep some walls up ofc but you can still be yourself/kinda weird as long as you're charismatic and enjoyable to be around.

Ahh, I don't even want to mention the romantic stuff! I hate the flirting phase. It feels so awkward; they say unnecessary things and play a role. I can clearly see it. I always find myself telling them, "ehehe, I'm autistic, sorry, ehehe, I feel awkward now," and if I sense even a little bit of fakeness—which happens almost every time—I get the ick and want to get rid of them ASAP.

I could give a response to this but my advice is going to vary slightly depending on if you're a male or female. The only thing I can recommend with me not knowing your gender is that you should consider going on safe casual dates with seemingly decent randos from dating apps, even if you're not super into them at a glance. I try and do it in a way where I stay open minded/no pre-judgement but also go out and do things I want to do anyways. Keeps me active, and keeps me sharp for whenever the right person does come into my life.
The flirting phase can be a chore, especially when mind games are involved. I understand and share your feelings towards the whole "playing a role" aspect of dating, it still makes me a little uncomfortable both doing so and being on the recieving end, but overall it can be pretty fun if you just live for the moment and detach a little bit, super satisfying when things just click and come together. I used to hate being single but now I actively enjoy it.

---

I say all this in hopes I can get through to the sort of person I was 10 years ago. Of course, my past self wouldn't have believed it, or made any real effort to implement this advice. I actively fought encouragement and positivity in all forms. But things really can come around, you just gotta break out of the anti-social cycle and relish in small personal victories as they inevitably come.

 

[sticker]

This is an interesting perspective because I was in a position similar to yours but I've largely come to inverse realizations. Online connections like that just aren't worth pursuing or maintaining (for the most part.) I've been actively trying to get someone I care about irl to get away from relying on online socialization so I am interested in what you have to say in response to critiques of it, there's a lot of similarities between you and my friend, especially when it comes to moving in with a partner met online. So apologies in advance if I project a bit of their circumstances/and my own onto yours, I don't mean to come across as a dick in my insistence that you reverse course.

In high school I was a shitlord loner, super pessimistic and terrible at proper socialization. If you're on this forum odds are you were probably at this stage of life at one point or another. In freshman year I got a school issued iPad, first online device that wasn't the family PC, and met some people online in a scene/clique, same sort of moody trauma dumping bullshit OP described + non-stop irony. In hindsight it was a terrible environment to be in as an impressionable teenager and it only further socially handicapped me at the time. It was almost like a death cult with how self perpetuating the cycle of depression and wallowing was. I check back in on those people from a distance every so often, and all these years later they're all either still like that or worse. For my one IRL friend I'm trying to get out of this online shit, they've also noticed the same trends just watching people in their discord servers slowly go insane (or rather, make their insanity publicly known.)

With online friends and groups it was nice to feel heard or cared about, but relying on it so much (or in your case, exclusively) will come at the expense of missed experiences and missed connections. You're inherently stuck inside or trapped looking at your phone to maintain it, it's not healthy, there is no personal growth to be gained from it. It's not that online socialization ruined IRL stuff in a "good way," rather you've grown content with this situation, it's a comfortable routine. It's like smoking pot everyday because it makes you feel good; you swear that you're happy because of it and it's totally not a bad addicting habit because of that feeling.

Sure there were some good times and laughs with my online friends, but I can't help but wonder what I missed out on irl as a result, I used to kick myself for the wasted time. But here I am as an adult, living a really active and kinda crazy life and having a blast in the process, just sort of making up those lost years. I would strongly advise you try and get out and about, especially if you're still young.


You're essentially describing the practice of masking. It drains me as well but the more you do it the easier it gets to wade through normies and find fellow nerds, fun weirdos, and chill peeps. Even the people who seem like normies mask to an exent, took me a few conversations with someone to learn they also had their own Neocities site! People can be full of surprises.
The normie memes are real to an extent but as I've always said not all normies are bad and you shouldn't inherently write them off/assert your own moral superiority. If you're only finding annoying/fake normies IRL then try and find some more offbeat hangout spots. Go through Google Maps in your area and just start saving interesting places you'd like to visit someday, parks, restaurants, etc, gives you plenty to do in a pinch if you're bored, and if it's a place you want to visit odds are their will be some likeminded folks there too. Give yourself a small little goal with each place you go to, like trying a new food or talking to someone, for me it's to take a nice photo to put onto Snapchat.
I've made a really diverse group of friends just going to kava bars, and they're a great spot to do online stuff at if you have a laptop. Keep some walls up ofc but you can still be yourself/kinda weird as long as you're charismatic and enjoyable to be around.


I could give a response to this but my advice is going to vary slightly depending on if you're a male or female. The only thing I can recommend with me not knowing your gender is that you should consider going on safe casual dates with seemingly decent randos from dating apps, even if you're not super into them at a glance. I try and do it in a way where I stay open minded/no pre-judgement but also go out and do things I want to do anyways. Keeps me active, and keeps me sharp for whenever the right person does come into my life.
The flirting phase can be a chore, especially when mind games are involved. I understand and share your feelings towards the whole "playing a role" aspect of dating, it still makes me a little uncomfortable both doing so and being on the recieving end, but overall it can be pretty fun if you just live for the moment and detach a little bit, super satisfying when things just click and come together. I used to hate being single but now I actively enjoy it.

---

I say all this in hopes I can get through to the sort of person I was 10 years ago. Of course, my past self wouldn't have believed it, or made any real effort to implement this advice. I actively fought encouragement and positivity in all forms. But things really can come around, you just gotta break out of the anti-social cycle and relish in small personal victories as they inevitably come.

Arghhh, this response is nice, even though it slapped me in the face so hard! Thanks for your thoughts!

I would like to extend my story because I clearly wrote it out with depressive thoughts and created a more weirdo-looking guy personality. I'm a weirdo, there is no doubt. But I'm a weirdo with LOTS OF friends. Like, if you ask people around me what kind of person I am, they would describe me as "They are the most social person I've ever seen. They are everywhere, always active, always working on something, always creating connections, always creating friendly environments, listens, talks too much, likes to participate in all kinds of events, so positive, so creative, so energetic" and things like this. This is what I always hear about myself when people talk about me. I've always been like this. BUT! I made it by myself! I genuinely love to connect with people but novadays I think all of these positive things is because I am trying to build a brand, where I am the best product and everyone likes this product! I'm not a "good guy" since highschool I've never been an asocial person as well, even, people tries to be friends with me because they think I am "cool" but in reality, I think all my doings is because of trauma. I never get love from my family, and always look for a connection that I should've get from my family. I want everyone loves me and needs me.

For example, I generally make events where I connect people on a cause. "Let's go to the beach and have some fun!" Then I spread the word and create a WhatsApp/Telegram group, people invite their friends, and I coordinate a party. "Let's do yoga!" Then I invite people over. "Let's make a clip for this music!" and then I make people come together, and we create things and have fun. These events generally be bigger, with 30-100 people. I'm a photographer. I like to go everywhere, anytime, and by myself. I go to events, parties, exhibitions, and make lots of friends and connections. I talk with people and take their photos. It is so easy to make friends when you are a photographer because you take photos, and people want to connect with you to take these photos and then invite you to places, and you become friends. I can be friends with anyone when I want to, and I like to hear people! I always ask people about their plans and dreams, and if I like them, I simply participate! I do whatever I can to take part in that project to make it come true. I like to dance, and be free, I hate to go somewhere with a person who sticks to me, so go to places with people who are also free souls, who dont follow me anywhere I go and wants attention from me. Because when I go to an event I like to wander around, dance by myself, take photos etc. Because I want to be a part of that environment, not that friendship. I especially like to be the builder of the environment, by this way everyone comes to me and speaks to me and expects me to make more events like this. Arghh Im a terrible person. I hate myself for doing this.

But as you can see, since I'm very active, after 3-4 months (sometimes 2), I feel so drained, and everything I've done feels so stupid and unnecessary. The friendships I built feel so fake, and everything I do feels so mundane. I feel everything is fake. That makes me feel disappointed. Suddenly I stop doing everything and vanish.

Then I start over. I can maintain friendships, but ONLY with people online. When I look back, I can clearly see I stop seeing people who I met IRL after a while; they become acquaintances, not friends. But I can keep my online friendships for years. I don't know why this happens. I would like to hear about your thoughts more after the additional data I've given you.

 

[The Chibi One]

That was an interesting thread to catch up to, and it's an issue we should consider more now that the distinction between IRL and Internet has been all but obliterated.

I might be a bit older than some people on this forum so here are my two cents: maintaining IRL relationships after 30 (unless you are a NEET or have loads of free time) is difficult. Making new friends magnitudes more so. It's somewhat easier to build a connection online because you can just join a Facebook group about whatever interest you have and begin getting into conversations with people about your shared hobbies. More often than not, you will start a connection with X Online Person about your shared interest in, let's say for example, WH40K models.

Chances are, depending on where you were born or currently reside, there is not a person in a five-kilometre radius that shares this interest. Social media and forums ameliorate this by nullifying distance. You would otherwise have to find a model/boardgame store in a reasonable distance, drive there and find a group, etc etc. You get my point. Tapping on your smartphone is easier. Same with friends; you'll be lucky to get the whole gang together maybe once every six months, and I'm not being hyperbolic.

As SolidStateSurvivor said, however, relying on online acquaintances (I wouldn't call them friends, to be honest) means missing out on formative real-life experiences. Chances are you started chatting up a person because you both liked this or that obscure show or card game or what-have-you, and that shared hobby dominated your conversations; it's probable you would 'click' on other aspects besides that shared interest, but not likely. If you did, more power to you. But don't be surprised that if you try engaging on a 'deeper' level with people you meet online, you'll be let down because they are normies in all but that aspect that connected you in the first place.

The issue with online connections borne on a singular shared interest or even a cluster of them is that you don't build a solid foundation that would translate to an IRL friendship. It's actually great that I can sperg out with some guy from another country about Battle Spirits Saga, but it doesn't necessarily mean I would meet him IRL and be buddy-buddy, know what I mean?

I also agree with a post above that mentioned the majority of people are NPC's/normalfags/drones/normies, call them whatever you want. It's true; maybe 2 out of 10 persons you come across will have a spark of something beyond mainstream wants and following trends, just gliding through life, neither influenced by nor influential to their surroundings. But just because you find a person you can talk endlessly online about 80s OVAs, doesn't mean you should give up on forming interpersonal real-life relationships.

My advice would be everything in moderation. It's great that you form online connections, but it shouldn't be a crutch keeping you back from trying to engage more with IRL friends. You might get the best of both worlds.

 

[Ardea]

I have two close friends that I practically grew up with. Not literally, we were all late teens/early 20s when we met. They are more like brothers than friends at this point. We make an unlikely gaggle of idiots for sure, and sometimes it feels like we're living in an episode of Ed Edd n Eddy. The funny thing is we're fundamentally quite different people, but there's an unspoken bond there. None of us ever quite fit in, but there's a common sense of humor about it in all of us.

I don't think I could have ever made friends like that online. There's a closeness that only nights getting stoned and talking shit all night can bring about. Prank calls, stupid shenanigans that you're too old for, but that soothe that sense of dread that comes with not knowing where you fit in in the world.

I've had online friends, but they come and go. I got lucky with the friends I do have. Generally speaking, I see meeting new people as a pain. I don't really enjoy it anymore.

 

[The Chibi One]

I have two close friends that I practically grew up with. Not literally, we were all late teens/early 20s when we met. They are more like brothers than friends at this point. We make an unlikely gaggle of idiots for sure, and sometimes it feels like we're living in an episode of Ed Edd n Eddy. The funny thing is we're fundamentally quite different people, but there's an unspoken bond there. None of us ever quite fit in, but there's a common sense of humor about it in all of us.

I don't think I could have ever made friends like that online. There's a closeness that only nights getting stoned and talking shit all night can bring about. Prank calls, stupid shenanigans that you're too old for, but that soothe that sense of dread that comes with not knowing where you fit in in the world.

I've had online friends, but they come and go. I got lucky with the friends I do have. Generally speaking, I see meeting new people as a pain. I don't really enjoy it anymore.

Yeah, pretty much on the bold part. How can you even replicate that on purely online terms? Raiding a twitch stream?

Don't get me wrong, I have spent many a night just chatting up with online acquaintances non-stop, but at the end of the day it felt more like a quid pro quo of recommendations and data exchange than any meaningful connection. Totally different if you meet someone online, and then find out they live half an hour away and you hit it off IRL.

There was a guy I would talk to about anime non-stop for two years straight after school, that was years ago mind you. One day he just didn't log in and that was it. For the life of me, I can't even recall what his name was. I more vividly remember some group of drunk college kids I shot the shit with one night in like 2014.

 

[SparkyWilson]

I grew up half in the internet and half in real life. I've never really considered people I interacted with online to be "friends" but to be acquaintances. I use to play eve-online a lot so a lot of my online acquaintances I had were from there, on-top of scattered forums and IRC channels I have been on over the years. I do have IRL friends that I met in IRL and hang out with and typically try to make friends\interact with people in person. Social media has kinda fucked up how people interact with each other. For example I've come across people who seem very anti-social in how they present them selves, but when you talk to them, they are really happy to talk to someone and on the other end you have someone who seems very out-going but does not want to talk to anyone..

 

[The Chibi One]

I grew up half in the internet and half in real life. I've never really considered people I interacted with online to be "friends" but to be acquaintances. I use to play eve-online a lot so a lot of my online acquaintances I had were from there, on-top of scattered forums and IRC channels I have been on over the years. I do have IRL friends that I met in IRL and hang out with and typically try to make friends\interact with people in person. Social media has kinda fucked up how people interact with each other. For example I've come across people who seem very anti-social in how they present them selves, but when you talk to them, they are really happy to talk to someone and on the other end you have someone who seems very out-going but does not want to talk to anyone..

Pretty much this.

Social media fucked people up because in the early days of the Internet you would be advised to keep your real info private. It was basic OpSec to have a dummy e-mail with no personal info attached where you could just shitpost online with nothing tied to your real life. Social media forced normies to tie their personhood to their online presence. Now everyone has a "brand" of themselves that they have to project to the world in order to be liked/validated/whatever.

Even if you had a belligerent opinion, it ultimately didn't matter. Used to be someone disagreed with you on GameFAQs for example, they called you a retard, you called them a faggot, and that was it. You both went about your day and no one would try to force real-life ramifications on the other. Now I saw a guy shitposting about GME or some cryptoscam on his LinkedIn account and his boss fired him for it. I have also seen folks get called for an HR meeting because companies have interns scout the social media of employees to make sure no one is complaining about their work hours and conditions. (Admittedly that isn't as far-spread, but we're getting there.)

Getting back on topic, I met a lot of acquaintances as we both call them that I could talk for hours about old TTRPGs, vinyls, whatever. But I would never try to gauge their political affiliations, personal lifestyle choices, etc. because ultimately it wasn't important because they weren't people I really interacted with on an IRL basis.

 

[wavve-creator]

I once had a friend I knew from Xbox Live and he played in a minor band that toured with Warped one year. Went to see him it was cool. He was cool, but I never spoke to or saw him again afterwards which was sad since I moved away and stopped gaming. I wonder whatever happened to him. His band didnt go big but that's okay.

 

[RisingThumb]

I like in-person friendships more. Most online friends I know rarely go beyond pen-pals, and the ones I know who are fully online, I've usually met once or twice, or have plans to meet them eventually. Fully online sucks. Fully offline also sucks too.
Anyone who's been in a long distance relationship will know how much fully online sucks, and how they should have a plan to make it a short distance relationship or just be friends.

Part of it also, is the internet just isn't fully real and not fully unreal, and with AI getting better and better, I certainly wonder how many online friends would be real for Gen Alpha or Gen Beta. Imagine a long distance relationship with a ghost in some data center- machine-made horrors. Also with that stat of most people being lonely... yikes

 

[grapefruitsoda]

i can so relate to your childhood story. from my experience, i imagine that most people you will meet in off-beat online spaces like agora road were isolated (to some degree) in childhood. humans want to connect, and when your easiest route as a kid is through the internet, that is how you learn to do it

the internet has its own unique cultures, and for me as a child, it felt like the kids at school were from a different culture, where as my internet oddball friends spoke my language. this persisted into adulthood and i tend to "click" best with people who share my niche interests.

connection is a basic need, but communication/social skills need to be learned. when i first became an adult and started living independently, i realized i was behind on my social skills. i deliberately put effort into improving (practicing starting conversations, public speaking classes, seeking jobs where i must speak to others face-to-face)

i have learned to lean into the weirdness of socializing. being human is an awkward experience lol, even for "normies" or people who seem to have it all together. it's uncomfortable, it's cringey, it falls flat. and sometimes i have lovely moments of connection with people.

i understand the hating fakeness thing too, it feels icky when you can tell someone is playing a role. my most effective IRL friend-making technique has been to be authentic. i walk up to people and compliment them genuinely or ask what they're doing (if i'm curious), and then freestyle sharing little details about myself and asking questions. sometimes people react poorly, but most are delighted that another person is showing genuine interest in them. doing this is also a great way to keep my conversation skills sharp.

my second most effective friend-making technique is that i'm kinda weird, and i let it show. i'm not talking about making a performance of being "weird", i mean being genuine. i make sounds and sing to myself, i dress uniquely, and i share about my unusual interests. generally, i don't behave inauthentically to be palatable and that weeds out jerks and boring people from the get-go, and magnetizes the other weird (and accepting) people to me lolol

IMO online friendships cannot replace in-person connections, i just need to be with other humans, it's soothing and grounding to make healthy connections. online friendships are fun and it's great to connect with others about my niche interests. i have learned to connect with like-minded others IRL by "being myself" as cliché as that sounds.

 

[Digital Cheese]

Anyone who's been in a long distance relationship will know how much fully online sucks

I can confirm this, it drives you actually insane after the first month. Now, if you have to do it for several years, then prepare to go even more insane. Even more so if you started dating somewhat shortly after meeting rather than something like years later, or if you're extremely far apart (the latter doesn't apply in my case as my empress is still within my country, but still rather far from me as some of you folks know).

Part of it also, is the internet just isn't fully real and not fully unreal, and with AI getting better and better, I certainly wonder how many online friends would be real for Gen Alpha or Gen Beta. Imagine a long distance relationship with a ghost in some data center- machine-made horrors.

True, at this rate even voice-chats may not be safe from the AI. The moment they decide to use AI even on console voice-chat services like Xbox Live, then it is truly over as there is no longer anyway to prove you are legitimate without doxxing yourself, and without having years or potentially even decades of internet history under one name. For tech-wizards, it'll be a similar case with something like Mumble. No way to prove you are legitimate unless you dox yourself, or have tons of internet history, but you will get quite a while longer compared to normies. Normies have arguably already begun experiencing the effects of AI in an unavoidable way, just they haven't realized it yet, whereas we will likely figure it out sooner.

Also with that stat of most people being lonely... yikes

AI spam will either finally make people go outside, or make people poorer with security than ever. And sadly, it will likely be the latter. With how many are lonely this generation, even compared to normal standards, we're going to have a huge problem in the future. 2 Generations have already had internet access for most, or even all of their lives in some cases. Gen Alpha is still growing, but will be the 3rd and is starting to actually go online. Gen Beta will be in a similar boat, but likely even worse. At this point, I can only hope that all of it falls, it is the only way things will get better with the AI stuff. I don't so much care about some 12 year old generating 9/11 memes with adolf hitler and mario flying the planes, my concern is more so with automated accounts as we will no longer know what is and isn't real. We'd probably have to make a secret society of sorts with our own language, and anyone who dares to join must agree to never share the language except to other new members, and only via physical books.

Perhaps I am exaggerating, in fact, I almost certainly am. But it won't be good once voice-chats are no longer usable to avoid the bots too, even if it will take a long time before it wouldn't be easily noticable. We already know that stuff like ChatGPT can easily write responses without anyone suspecting a thing, and that's just what is publicly available. So what from here? Are we seriously going to have to play Diary Girl online on the Nintendo DS with voice-chat in order to be seen as legitimate?

IMO online friendships cannot replace in-person connections, i just need to be with other humans, it's soothing and grounding to make healthy connections.

Online frenships couldn't replace IRL connections for me entirely, although I don't interact with many people to begin with. Outside of family, and the 1 IRL fren I have, most people i could message online and be fine with just staying there, even if I would like to eventually meet some of the folks in real life that I talk with now. Mostly the internet is easier to communicate. No weird signs, you get time to actually type out our message, etc. Even in voice-chat, it isn't as strict as IRL conversation because there is no face-to-face contact. You just speak, listen to the other person(s), respond again, etc etc etc. Even video-chat, still ever so slightly less strict than IRL interaction, but not by much. I'd only turn on a webcam if I had *very* good reason to do so, or if I were in a call with my gf. Otherwise, voice and text is all you really need.

Tbh though outside of family, my IRL fren, and my gf who i intend to marry one day, I could avoid talking to people, except on the internet, for the rest of my life, and I would probably not even need the internet outside of having a more convenient way to message folks. I don't think I would be sane at all, but it would be easily possible regardless, and I wouldn't consider myself entirely sane anyways. Now would I prefer to do that? Probably not, I am not *that* avoidant of people, but I prefer to be mostly hidden, at least IRL. No social-media under my real name, email me or send me a letter. May not even have social-media under the Digital Cheese name within the near future depending on how things go, just contactable through email or forums. The simpler the better, it is a peaceful life, indeed.

If I ever lost all of my sanity, I would do as one Agora user joked about in another thread, become a borderline internet-monk and just dedicate 90% of my free-time to internet posting. I'd probably become the most efficient poster and archiver in the world. 120WPM typing speed, all time dedicated to posting, and has turned everything possible into a terminal setup. Now I am just going on forever and ever though, and with not much else to say here I will just end this one off.

 

[TheGr8Whoopdini]

tl;dr: I've been building online friendships since childhood, and now I find it challenging to connect with people I meet in real life. Have you experienced something similar?

I was 4 years old when I first got my computer and 7 when I first came across the internet. My dad got a computer from a friend and loaded it with a bunch of mini-games, putting 42 games in a folder called "games." I have no idea how he managed to find and bring that computer amidst our poverty. We didnt even have a desk to put the computer on. My mom placed the monitor on a two-drawer dresser. A large part of my childhood was spent playing games there. There was a program to learn touch typing and even a chatbot that would scold you for everything you typed.


When I turned 7, my monitor was replaced with a larger, thinner Inca monitor, and my dad got us an internet connection. I started buying games from a local store that sold torrent-loaded game CDs and spent most of my time playing them. I also entered the world of online games. At 8, I started playing MMORPGs and began spending most of my time riding bikes with my IRL friends and playing MMORPGs with them at home.


By the time I was 10, I had become addicted to MMORPGs. I still rode my bike, but most of my time was spent in front of the computer. It was around this time that my parents divorced, and I lived with my mom for a year in a computer-less environment. After a year of spending most of my time playing outside and socializing with friends, my dad moved to another city and took me with him. I started living in a city I didn't know, far from my friends, my mom, and everything I was used to. My dad would leave early in the morning and come back late at night, so I was mostly alone. I spent all my time on the internet, role-playing with people I met on Facebook. We were talking and chilling all day on Skype while playing games. It was fun at first, but then my interaction with games continued with MOBA. I started to become toxic, playing Dota 2 every day until the early hours of the morning. Everyone I met on Facebook had tough lives. They were all lost children who didn't receive the necessary attention and love from their families. We all trauma dumped on each other. Connecting with someone meant sharing all the pain you had experienced in your life, informing them about all your traumas, and knowing their deepest secrets. To become close friends with someone, all you needed was a night of messaging. And that was it—congrats, you became besties! As I grew older, I started to make more meaningful and positive friendships online, but the oversharing sessions continued to be an important phenomenon in forming friendships.

In my Highschool years I somehow create a small circle of friends who plays video games and basketball. We play basketball all day and then spend all the night playing games. So it was okay and fun, they were also using Facebook and had the same kind of humor as I had.

When I started university, I was shocked. Human relationships were nothing like what I had learned—they developed slowly and occasionally. Friendships weren't formed by discussing terms and conditions at the start. Everything was very vague and complicated. No one had a profile where you could see all of their opinions on all sorts of things; people couldn't tolerate different opinions and got angry when you tried to discuss ideas different from theirs. No trolling allowed! I was able to form friendships with people who didn't actively use the internet because I was a talkative and positive person, but something was off all the time. It felt like we perceived everything differently and spoke different languages. I was feeling like I had a mask around them, mimicking their behavior. This exhausted me over time, so after two months of active social interaction, I often found myself needing two months of staying at home, just playing games, and hanging out with my online friends.

Maintaining human relationships was very difficult since everything was so obscure, and eventually, I formed a circle where I maintained IRL connections with people I met online. I even met my romantic partner online, and after a while, we started to live together. While living together, the people we hung out with were also our internet friends. We tried to meet people outside the internet space, but it was very challenging. The questions we asked and the topics we brought up made us seem like we were talking about something absurd, and people reacted to them strangely. The discussion habits brought by the internet weren't as accepted in real life, making people feel insecure and stressed. After 4 years of living with my partner, playing games and hanging out on discord at home, and working online, we broke up, and I moved to another city. Here, I pushed myself to make IRL connections, but everything felt so fake. I thought everything was fine, but in the end, I felt so exhausted, so drained. I don't want to see anyone anymore. I don't feel safe around them. I feel like there is a glass in front of me, and it makes me feel like we are all playing roles. Ahh, I don't even want to mention the romantic stuff! I hate the flirting phase. It feels so awkward; they say unnecessary things and play a role. I can clearly see it. I always find myself telling them, "ehehe, I'm autistic, sorry, ehehe, I feel awkward now," and if I sense even a little bit of fakeness—which happens almost every time—I get the ick and want to get rid of them ASAP.

Now I think IRL or online doesn't matter, we are a bunch of autistic people here. We don't run across each other easily in real life because I believe many other people like me have the same issues when it comes to first interactions. I will not try to push IRL connections anymore. I already have friends; there's no need to feel awkward. The perception of "normal" varies by society. And I believe the people I met online are part of a different kind of society that has different kind of connections than those who don't use the internet as often as I do. This is the way we connect.

I would like to hear about your thoughts on this.

The style of friendmaking you (and just about everyone else in this thread) describe is very characteristic of literal, diagnosable autism. Indeed, "masking" is the exact term we use to describe the fakeness demanded when we have to interact with allists (non-autistic people).

The solution for our continued happiness is to exclusively associate with our fellow autists, so you're pretty much already on the right track, though I'd encourage you to re-attempt IRL friendmaking by deliberately filtering for fellow autists, so that you don't waste your time pointlessly trying to befriend allists. One way to do this is by engaging in the local scenes for your most stereotypically autistic hobbies, so that the crowd of attendees is already heavily pre-selected to be more likely to be compatible with you.

 

[TheGr8Whoopdini]

This is an interesting perspective because I was in a position similar to yours but I've largely come to inverse realizations. Online connections like that just aren't worth pursuing or maintaining (for the most part.)

The issue with online connections borne on a singular shared interest or even a cluster of them is that you don't build a solid foundation that would translate to an IRL friendship.

By contrast, the strongest and most supportive relationships in my life have been primarily or exclusively online. These people have hooked me up with IRL opportunities, been a social safety net in my lowest and most vulnerable moments (including helping me get by financially/providing me emergency housing), showered me with gifts, and generally been the true ride-or-die family I should have had but lacked by birth.

The key, I think, is that (in combination with a bit of good luck) I naturally stumbled into a methodology for making extremely solid (necessarily non-normie) friends, which works offline but is especially efficient online due to the lack of IRL logistical friction:

1. Start by joining the community for one of your comparatively niche interest (filters out normies/neurotypicals; the more stereotypically autistic your interest(s), the better, for this purpose).
2. By participating in the community, identify the people in it who share your values.
3. Engage with those value-compatible people on a deeper level by spending time together working on something related to the values you share, or simply by sharing another interest besides the one that initially connected you (since people who are into certain hobbies or have certain values are likely to be "the type of people" who are into certain other things). Eventually, as your shared experiences (which are the "meat" of a friendship) accumulate, this can turn into spending time together for its own sake—simply enjoying each other's company over, say, dinner IRL, or hanging out in a voice call/casually gaming online.

This also works in reverse, where you start with values (volunteering, for example) and find people there who share your interests (and neurotype). The main thing to keep in mind is that shared interests and values (and neurodivergence) are key to the start of a relationship, but its existence is maintained by shared experiences, which create meaning and a feeling of mutual investment, a.k.a. loyalty.

 

[TheGr8Whoopdini]

Arghhh, this response is nice, even though it slapped me in the face so hard! Thanks for your thoughts!

I would like to extend my story because I clearly wrote it out with depressive thoughts and created a more weirdo-looking guy personality. I'm a weirdo, there is no doubt. But I'm a weirdo with LOTS OF friends. Like, if you ask people around me what kind of person I am, they would describe me as "They are the most social person I've ever seen. They are everywhere, always active, always working on something, always creating connections, always creating friendly environments, listens, talks too much, likes to participate in all kinds of events, so positive, so creative, so energetic" and things like this. This is what I always hear about myself when people talk about me. I've always been like this. BUT! I made it by myself! I genuinely love to connect with people but novadays I think all of these positive things is because I am trying to build a brand, where I am the best product and everyone likes this product! I'm not a "good guy" since highschool I've never been an asocial person as well, even, people tries to be friends with me because they think I am "cool" but in reality, I think all my doings is because of trauma. I never get love from my family, and always look for a connection that I should've get from my family. I want everyone loves me and needs me.

For example, I generally make events where I connect people on a cause. "Let's go to the beach and have some fun!" Then I spread the word and create a WhatsApp/Telegram group, people invite their friends, and I coordinate a party. "Let's do yoga!" Then I invite people over. "Let's make a clip for this music!" and then I make people come together, and we create things and have fun. These events generally be bigger, with 30-100 people. I'm a photographer. I like to go everywhere, anytime, and by myself. I go to events, parties, exhibitions, and make lots of friends and connections. I talk with people and take their photos. It is so easy to make friends when you are a photographer because you take photos, and people want to connect with you to take these photos and then invite you to places, and you become friends. I can be friends with anyone when I want to, and I like to hear people! I always ask people about their plans and dreams, and if I like them, I simply participate! I do whatever I can to take part in that project to make it come true. I like to dance, and be free, I hate to go somewhere with a person who sticks to me, so go to places with people who are also free souls, who dont follow me anywhere I go and wants attention from me. Because when I go to an event I like to wander around, dance by myself, take photos etc. Because I want to be a part of that environment, not that friendship. I especially like to be the builder of the environment, by this way everyone comes to me and speaks to me and expects me to make more events like this. Arghh Im a terrible person. I hate myself for doing this.

But as you can see, since I'm very active, after 3-4 months (sometimes 2), I feel so drained, and everything I've done feels so stupid and unnecessary. The friendships I built feel so fake, and everything I do feels so mundane. I feel everything is fake. That makes me feel disappointed. Suddenly I stop doing everything and vanish.

Then I start over. I can maintain friendships, but ONLY with people online. When I look back, I can clearly see I stop seeing people who I met IRL after a while; they become acquaintances, not friends. But I can keep my online friendships for years. I don't know why this happens. I would like to hear about your thoughts more after the additional data I've given you.

The cycle you describe going through here is called "burnout", which autists who mask too long inevitably suffer. Your online friendships persist because they are genuine, while your IRL ones are not. If you instead begin to approach your IRL relationships in an autism-friendly manner, as I outlined in my previous post, you will find friendships which match the authenticity and sustainability of your online ones.