Opinions on polygamy and polyamory?

[Junious]

Polygamy gives the otherwise very wholesome Mormon community this outlaw vibe. I wonder how this discussion played out in the old west when the polygamists Mormons rolled into town and set up shop. What did the Mexicans, Native Americans, and blood meridian cowboys think of these radical Christian polygamists? Polygamy seems to be a common feature of self isolating religious cults that deify their own membership. This fact alone leads me to believe that it is more about hedonism, ego, and exploitation than an organic outgrowth of love. Polygamy happens in highly controlled and isolated societies. How does this comport with the recent adoption of the soft polygamy of polyamory by urban woke creatives? Polyamory for the alienated and neglected versus polygamy for the controlled and isolated?

 

[ĦĦĦ]

why are multiple people agreeing to be married to this one person?

when i originally made this thread, i though of polygamy being a relationship where everyone loves each other. they probably love some more than others but they still are in love with each other. though now that i think about it, it does seem like most polyamorous relationships are formed around 1 person in mind, at least that is the impression i get. if most polyamorous relationships are like that, centering around one person, then it will obviously end in a nasty way.

Do anectodes from my GF about a polyamorous coworker of hers count?

sure why not, anecdotes from people you know also count.

 

[knowyouareloved]

has anyone actually interacted with polyamorous people

A friend's friends are in a polycule and I've hung around them at a handful of low key parties

if homosexuality is involved it is good if it doesn't it won't work.

Yeah, it's a polycule made up of a handful of gay, mildly autistic guys (some of whom now are trans women)

it does seem like most polyamorous relationships are formed around 1 person in mind

Yeah, there's one person who is clearly the center holding it all together, two others that that one is closest two, and the other one or two seem to be along for the ride.

I think there are levels of emotional intimacy and trust that two people can achieve with each other that a person cannot achieve with a group. This puts an upper bound on how stable a polycule can be that is meaningfully lower than the limit for a couple.

 

[Obake]

Is it hedonistic, degenerate or/and hurtful to everyone involved?

Yes to all of the above

 

[LiraTirsoCaduceo]

Now I'll give my honest opinion on this topic.
People struggle with gamia in general, let alone one involving multiple people.
I honestly think polygamy should be avoided, since it creates all sorts of conflicts, whether you think there's a biological determinism towards monogamy or that it is merely a social construct I see no reason as to why we should engage with polygamy, let alone normalise it.
I was a bit of a third wheel in a polygamic relationship in what feels like a lifetime ago. I had broken up with my gf at the time and ended up on a weird rebound with a girl who wanted to open a previous relationship to try polygamy, this was back in around 2017~.
It just felt wrong, the girl had been with the guy for arround a year or so, and it felt like I was being intrusive. Looking back on it I wasn't really into the girl romantically but I was trying to fill a void. You know when you suddenly break up and find yourself with a lot more time and a emptiness on your bed. And at the time I was also very socially liberally minded, so being in a relationship like that... I won't say it was cool but it was something you know? and I've always been very open minded and flexible.
It was a disaster, it's like other people say, the focus was obviously the girl, I could tell my presence was causing a strain on their relationship. I remember one time the girl just invited me to the cinema, and the bf was there, and I saw how defeated he looked the moment I showed up.
Eventually I stopped hanging out with the girl, and learnt through a mutual friend that they broke up, not surprising at all.
Throughout the whole affair I had a gut feeling it was not ok, but this was a time when I had a "progressivist" ideology. You know how ideologies tend to make abstractions of the real world starting from a few basic premises? And then it feels like you are forcing the real world into your sterile theories. Like taking a very flexible stick and bending it to the shape you like, and the more you bend it the more it will hurt you when all the energy suddenly releases.
So I ignored everything that was telling me that it was not ok.
My perspective now looking back on how I acted back then, and how many people act now, not just on the topic of polygamy but in general, is that lots of people are sacrificing themselves or exposing others to deeply hurtful experiences just for the sake of proving the functionality of their doctrinal assumptions.

 

[RisingThumb]

Is it hedonistic

Yes. Even a monogamous relationship is hedonistic if it's only for the sake of sex such as hookups, short-term relationships and friends with benefits. I don't think hedonistic is necessarily damning, you can pursue pleasure in some ways like engaging in a feast or partying- it's the excess that's terrible, however this is an example of hedonism I'd consider damaging.

degenerate

Often it is.

or/and hurtful to everyone involved

Often it is. If it by some miracle goes on for a long enough time, then it's likely one of the people in that polygamous relationship will start to bully their competitor out of it, to try and secure it, causing a lot of damage to all participants and driving it into a monogamous relationship which is on bad foundations.

I think Polygamy is generally a sign something weird is going on and the society it occurs in is crooked and morally twisted in some way. The early Mormon church supported polygamy as an example of this. Western society as a whole normalising open relationships is a good example of this. Another point of this polygamy happening is in Japan where because of a dead bedroom, the wives of Japanese men turn their head the other way and let them pay sex workers in order to get their sexual appetite satisfied, as long as it's not "emotionally" cheating, so it's just a physical relationship the same way hookups are. I bring this and open relationships up as while they are not strictly polygamous(not having multiple wives or husbands but a few steps before that), they're still an indicator somethings crooked and busted in society.

Also polygamous couples and groups tend to integrate poorly into a primarily monogamous society. You can also see that in the early Mormon Church with how they go kicked out loads for being polygamous. You can also see it in how badly integrated some Muslims are- as an example Muslims in Mindanao having legal exceptions for multiple wives. Another example of how this is, is that in some countries polygamous relationships(by their legal definition) is illegal. In the UK, it's illegal which is part of why Shariah Law is incompatible here and a point of contention between Muslims and Brits.

 

[ĦĦĦ]

In the UK, it's illegal which is part of why Shariah Law is incompatible here and a point of contention between Muslims and Brits.

as far as i know, most Muslims aren't even in polyamorous relationships. apparently, polygamy is more wide-spread and practiced in Sub-Saharan Africa; where tribal culture still has a strong influence in society, even after Islam and Christianity had become widely adopted by the people who live there.

i've met a few Muslims from the UK and so far they have either been not that religious or really fundamentalist. i think this has more to do with the psychology of some migrants who feel culturally atomized and alone within the country they currently reside in, so some might turn to fervent nationalism or religious fundamentalism to fill that void. "i'm not a native and neither am i exactly the same as the people from my country of origin, who and what am i?". not suggesting that this is the fault of the natives or something like that, but i think that this problem is rooted with the primal urge to belong. this is a topic for another time so let's not derail the thread.

 

[Eden]

Another potential, unmentioned, contributing factor I believe could be the "overabundance" that a more globalized world "provides" / sells people.

 

[astralita]

oh I read it as:
"Monogamy or death."
"It's [polygamy] not beneficial for us women."
"It's [monogamy] rooted in biological programming."

Again I agree that polygamy isn't workable, but I think you misunderstand polygamists. Predatory males and pick me women don't live in 'polycules,' they just party and sleep around. It makes waaaay more sense to not commit to anyone rather than to commit to some amount of people. Polygamy is not about hedonism, at least not now in society. Hook-up culture is about hedonism. Right now the vast majority of polygamists are just very strange, weird people. Or maybe polygamy is the ugly-person version of hook-up culture.

That is to say, hook-up culture is fun in the short term but pretty exhausting and damaging to one's ability to form bonds with others long-term. It is, actually VERY fun in the short term. Especially with drugs.

Well, here it's very different, the people into polygamy are these dudes that want to spread their genes (yeah it's so braindead that I almost had a stroke writing it), that want to have a menage a trois, and their pick me orbiters. Then you have people (both sexes) who mask their sex addictions under progressivism and muhh polygamy.
Anyway, even if it's more long-term than hook-up culture, that type of arrangement ends quickly and with loads of drama.

 

[aztralsea]

what difference does homosexuality make in a polyamorous relationship? could you specify please?
-------------------------------------
on another note, has anyone actually interacted with polyamorous people? online and in real life. if so can they talk about their experiences with them?

I am in a polyamorous relationship right now, and we are very happy

 

[alCannium27]

Polygamy was widespread in pre-modern times, before the Jews made it a norm within their own culture and then Christianity forced it upon the rest of the world.
Polygamy was a tool for the historically important facet of keeping a continous family line for the purpose of stability. It has worked through time and places that one dynasty after another continously produce legitimate heirs instead of following the footsteps of too many a European monarchs whose line end in their own deaths and swiftly a succession crisis ensues.
It is simple math: a woman must be pregnant for about 10 months before giving birth while a man can spurt sperm all week. Of course the ideal match up is one man multiple women. It's like raising chicken, you want fertilized eggs? Keep at least 8 hens to 1 rooster. Your family wants male heirs, get a bunch of wives and concubines for the head of the house and keep trying if you can pay for it. It's natural, therefore it was praticed widely -- even the Franks were polygamous before the Christ got to them.
So saying it's deviant is retarded, if only outdated and obsolete (like humanity). I do, however, put that modern polygamy is worthless, since it is not design for procreation, it cannot provide a stable framework for a multi-parental family unit, as it is problematic to identify the lineage of an offspring from this union, and the responsibilites thereof cannot be codified.
Since it is not meant for procreation, it is purely an organization for sexual recreation -- in which case, the union implies shared responsibilities, which are liabilities simple open relationships and swingers don't seem to have to worry about, and is therefore inferior in that context.

 

[HJ_]

There are "lost boys" in Mormonism where leftover unmarried boys are either condemned to a life of unpaid manual labor or just kicked out onto the street. So not sure how the numbers would actually work out, sounds like a bad deal for everyone involved

 

[Dead Star]

I've had this shower thought-tier theory that one of the reasons polygamy is on the rise is due to bad economics. In the past a man working 9-5 could support a family, then it became husband and wife working, and now even dual income is hardly enough to make ends meet even without kids. It's why you're getting these weird living situations where it's 3-4 people living together under one roof all boning back and forth.
But could also just be this weird trend of putting labels on everything too, like just fuck around casually with people you connect with if that's your thing, there's no need to declare it formally as something.

It has nothing to do with work and everything to do with one simple fact: The sexual revolution and it's consequences have been a disaster for western civilization.

Poly has been on the rise for decades going back to the sexual revolution. It used to go by a different term related to swinger culture. Read into the 70s sexual revolution and you have all kinds of stuff like the key parties and open relationships. It evolved in the 2000s with Neil Strauss' book The Game. That book mainstreamed pickup artists over 20 years ago and now they thrive on the internet in Manosphere circles where specific influencers preach to young men with low self esteem.

Open relationships do not work. I know people who have tried them and lived that whole lifestyle and none of them were average joes living on paychecks trying to get by. It takes a good amount of money and status to be able to live hedonistically for starts. It's usually contained within upper middle class and richer people, cause they have deep pockets to sleep around and find someone else who they enjoy fucking more than their significant other. That's always how this shit ends too. Either the man or woman eventually finds someone else who satisfies them sexually far better than their partner, and then it creates toxic resentment of jealousy. Every open relationship is bound to end in tears.

This song from 1998 sums this shit up in a nutshell.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqKMDrGnViE


"Use me like I was a whore, relationships such a bore, delete the ones that you fucked"

"I'm not in love, but I'm gonna fuck you till somebody better comes along."

 

[ControllerJunkieツ]

People have different needs and should not be forced into one kind of relationship just because of culture they live in.

I thought it would work for me, but after a while I realized that it wouldn't be a good idea. But I fully believe some people would be better off when they could have multiple partners at once. The world would be better with less sexual frustration in it.

 

[Aral]

I don't approve of it, perfect way to create resentment and jealousy between partners because there's inevitably going to be a favourite.
Besides, it's tough enough to maintain a single relationship, how do people maintain 3+?

 

[kodeb8]

I don't approve of it, perfect way to create resentment and jealousy between partners because there's inevitably going to be a favourite.
Besides, it's tough enough to maintain a single relationship, how do people maintain 3+?

Short answer: they don't. Open relationships have a 92% failure rate.

 

[RisingThumb]

Besides, it's tough enough to maintain a single relationship, how do people maintain 3+?

Overtime. 8 hours for work, 8 hours with your wife, 8 hours with your wife, 8 hours with your wife, 8 hours with your wife...

 

[punishedgnome]

This is not a new thing. These kinds of relationships are just different versions of people trying to have their cake and eat it too. In the 1700s, the aristocracy were all banging whoever they felt like. In the 1800s, tradesmen in the expanding middle class often fucked prostitutes from poor, destitute families. In the 50s, high powered executives had office bimbos. In the 70s, grown up hippies had swinger parties. Today we have gross, autistic polycues. As time goes on, it seems like this type of lifestyle is accessible to more and more people. I think that's because back in the 1700s, it was luxury to have the free time to juggle multiple sexual partners. As society has created more abundance and more people have free time, it has become more accessible to the unwashed commoners.

Is it degenerate? Maybe. However, I think the general loss of physical strength and technical knowledge over the last couple generations due to a sedentary lifestyle is a far more concerning form of degeneration than three or four fat people fucking each other. Fuck three fat women at once if you want, just for the love of god, learn how to change a tire when the weight of all your bitches inevitably gives you a flat.

Short answer: they don't. Open relationships have a 92% failure rate.

What is the failure rate for monogamous relationships? I had three other serious girlfriends before I met my wife, so the failure rate of my relationships is 75%. I think most people have a few relationships before they get married, so a high failure for monogamous or non-monogamous is not all that shocking.

 

[Endbringer fan xoxo]

As it was pointed out in the thread, polygamy is when a single woman/man has multiple husbands/wives and it's basically illegal to be a in polygamy relationship in almost everywhere in the world.
Here's a map:

Nowadays polygamy is mostly practiced by people in Africa & Muslims and (in Muslim culture at least) the women don't really have a final say in the matter whether if they want to marry a person who's already married or not.
Tho if I understand it correctly in Muslim culture, if a husband is in a poly relationship and doesn't treat all his wives equally then the mistreated wife/wives can basically go to a court and take everything the man has.

I only recommend polygamy if you have a kink when it comes to paying child support or if somehow all the people involved are in love with each other and can make it work.

 

[punishedgnome]

As it was pointed out in the thread, polygamy is when a single woman/man has multiple husbands/wives and it's basically illegal to be a in polygamy relationship in almost everywhere in the world.
Here's a map:
View attachment 143141


Nowadays polygamy is mostly practiced by people in Africa & Muslims and (in Muslim culture at least) the women don't really have a final say in the matter whether if they want to marry a person who's already married or not.
Tho if I understand it correctly in Muslim culture, if a husband is in a poly relationship and doesn't treat all his wives equally then the mistreated wife/wives can basically go to a court and take everything the man has.

I only recommend polygamy if you have a kink when it comes to paying child support or if somehow all the people involved are in love with each other and can make it work.

I assumed the creator of the thread meant polyamory. Maybe not.