"Outdated" books

[manpaint]

Last night, I was thinking about the concept of a book "aging well" and having "timeless theme" . This naturally implies that some book do not age well at all and reading them in the modern would simply lead the reader to say "wtf did I just read".

That being said, I am somewhat struggling to think about any example of a book that truly fit that definition. The only example I can actually think of is an ancirnt book called Utopia.

I have not read the book myself, but the summary is quite something:

Slavery is a feature of Utopian life, and it is reported that every household has two slaves. The slaves are either from other countries (prisoners of war, people condemned to die, or poor people) or are the Utopian criminals. The criminals are weighed down with chains made out of gold. The gold is part of the community wealth of the country, and fettering criminals with it or using it for shameful things like chamber pots gives the citizens a healthy dislike of it. It also makes it difficult to steal, as it is in plain view. The wealth, though, is of little importance and is good only for buying commodities from foreign nations or bribing the nations to fight each other. Slaves are periodically released for good behaviour. Jewels are worn by children, who finally give them up as they mature.

While I believe the work is technically satire, a lot of ideas in this book where likely derived from standards at the time.

I am unusure about the full historical context of the author - but I find it fascinating how one could read a book with ideas that appeared "correct" at a time but through modern less are just strraight up wrong.

I was wondering if any of you guys know of any examples similar to this? To be clear I am looking at works that got some recognition and were at least considered "normal" once upon a time. I am very well aware that people with "exotic" ideas are not new. I am simply wanting to find example of how normality evolved through time.

 

[Punp]

Twenty Thousand Leagues Under The Sea both aged really well and terribly. It had the usual "all tribes are cannibals" trope that was based on early records and rumours from ships that nuked the natives off the map, it had some speculative theory on machinery which was both advanced and faulty. It also had some hot takes on speculative biology of glowing sharks.

Which is funny, because it turns out that the glowing sharks things went full circle and turned out to be ahead of it's time, as there are some sharks like the megamouth shark which has bioluminescence inside its mouth.

It's funny how something can be both incorrect and correct depending on when it's read - and it's not always as linear as you might expect.

 

[manpaint]

Twenty Thousand Leagues Under The Sea both aged really well and terribly. It had the usual "all tribes are cannibals" trope that was based on early records and rumours from ships that nuked the natives off the map, it had some speculative theory on machinery which was both advanced and faulty. It also had some hot takes on speculative biology of glowing sharks.

Which is funny, because it turns out that the glowing sharks things went full circle and turned out to be ahead of it's time, as there are some sharks like the megamouth shark which has bioluminescence inside its mouth.

It's funny how something can be both incorrect and correct depending on when it's read - and it's not always as linear as you might expect.

Interesting. I should really read that book one day.

 

[raccoon//aphrodisiac]

this is probably easy pickings, but basically any philosophical book drafting an "ideal society". Thomas Hobbes' 'Leviathan', Plato's 'Republic', etc. they may have established more useful concepts aside from the book's overall purpose, i.e. the social contract, the theory of forms, and plenty others of plato's concepts, but as actual proposals for what society should be like they're immediately obviously outdated and deeply rooted in their time period

 

[Orlando Smooth]

A lot of OG sci-fi. I've mentioned elsewhere my dislike for Dune, in part because the fact that fatness, gayness, and drug use are all used to signal the bad guy. Not everyone agrees with that take, but I think if it hadn't been such a popular book it would be looked at a lot differently now. A lot of Heinlein's book were pretty bad in similar ways too, especially as he got older. Apparently he may have had like a degenerative disorder or something and he became ahem "grouchy" later in life.

There's also a series of fantasy books that are very sexual, and not in a good way. Like potions that make someone want to have sex with you and then it erases their memory, portrayed as a good thing. I can't remember the name off the top of my head, but I read the first one a long time ago and realized that, yes, it truly was as bad as people were saying and not just cancel culture. If anyone else knows what I'm talking about, I think the map is literally the map of Florida.

 

[ignika98]

A story "ageing poorly" doesn't necessarily mean it won't resonate or be relevant to readers today. Sometimes it means you just need to approach it from a different perspective or curb certain expectations you might have about literature you might normally read.

A lot of OG sci-fi. I've mentioned elsewhere my dislike for Dune, in part because the fact that fatness, gayness, and drug use are all used to signal the bad guy.

Based??? I've never read Dune but I might have to check it out now.

 

[Miku Simpson]

I dunno probably whatever the heck these are:

 

[Orlando Smooth]

The series I couldn't remember came to me, it's Xanth. As per Wikipedia:

Since the peak of its popularity in the 1970s and 1980s, the series has been criticized by many scholars and reviewers for what they characterize as misogynist and pedophilic undertones; one reviewer has called it the "most divisive non-media publishing enterprise in all of fantasy."

I don't remember how I first heard of it, but the plot sounded interesting enough. Basically everyone is born with a specific magical power, until one day a kid isn't and he needs to find something magical about himself to avoid execution or whatever. But when I looked up reviews, they were basically all versions of "I read this as a kid and so decided to revisit as an adult only to have my fond memories ruined by how disgusting these books are." I brushed it off, figuring it was just culture warriors trying to cancel something for simply being old - boy was I wrong. The first novel in the series (of 45!) was enough for me to think "yup, I don't need that in my life."

 

[manpaint]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I will look into the works mentionned.

 

[Punp]

Interesting. I should really read that book one day.

I've read it recently and I don't recommend it. It's drier than a dusty ryvita. There are things to like, like an on-deck fight with some giant squid, or going spear hunting in a kelp forest, but there's an awful lot of nothing happening. Your time is better spent on Treasure Island.

 

[manpaint]

I've read it recently and I don't recommend it. It's drier than a dusty ryvita. There are things to like, like an on-deck fight with some giant squid, or going spear hunting in a kelp forest, but there's an awful lot of nothing happening. Your time is better spent on Treasure Island.

I see. I will consider your anti-reccomendation.

 

[lain is here]

I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet. 99% of books written by political pundits age horribly and aren't worth reading since they deal with issue that quickly become irrelevant. So, basically anything by Ann Coulter (and other pundits like her, both on the Left and on the Right).

 

[remember_summer_days]

Was gonna do a little trollin' and say Das Kapital or the Bible... But really books themselves are outdated in the age of the internet

Go read a visual novel instead. Truly the evolution of literature

 

[manpaint]

Was gonna do a little trollin' and say Das Kapital or the Bible... But really books themselves are outdated in the age of the internet

Go read a visual novel instead. Truly the evolution of literature

Wait was is "Das Kapital"?

Checks wikipedia

Oh it's a political book related to communism.

As for visual novels, which ones have aged terribly?

 

[RisingThumb]

Twenty Thousand Leagues Under The Sea both aged really well and terribly. It had the usual "all tribes are cannibals" trope that was based on early records and rumours from ships that nuked the natives off the map, it had some speculative theory on machinery which was both advanced and faulty. It also had some hot takes on speculative biology of glowing sharks.

Which is funny, because it turns out that the glowing sharks things went full circle and turned out to be ahead of it's time, as there are some sharks like the megamouth shark which has bioluminescence inside its mouth.

It's funny how something can be both incorrect and correct depending on when it's read - and it's not always as linear as you might expect.

I just finished reading this earlier this week, and put my thoughts on here. Anyway, I thought it was a really good book, though I found the character interactions more interesting than the sci-fi elements(probably because the sci-fi elements aren't really that fictional anymore, and because it's sci-fi in marine biology which I have little interest in)- in particular the character of Captain Nemo was a very distinct and interesting character. The only person I'm aware of who seems to act in a similar-ish way would be Ted Kaczynski