Pondering a 2nd U.S. "Civil War" - Speculating contributing factors, potential effects, issues with the narrative, and misc thoughts

[Some_porcupine]

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ok, they are libertarians, but can do videos, unless they got flaws, idk. if opposite could made *those*, then lets go

 

[punishedgnome]

While I don't think a second Amerian Civil War is impossible, I don't think it's going to happen in the current era where people who basically do nothing can still afford to rent a room, play video games, watch TV and stuff their face with cheap pizza. Even with the current run of inflation, someone with a shitty part time jobs can pick up a pizza at Dominos and binge watch shitty TV in a warm bed for hours on end. People with that level of creature comforts aren't going to get riled up enough to risk getting shot at unless they're addicts, mentally ill or stupid.

If something huge like housing fell apart to the point where you ended up with a large class of homeless working people who are not mentally ill or addicts, I think a huge conflict would be more likely. I don't think things are that dire yet, though. I think they are merely at the point of "I have to take on debt to stay in my warm bed" as opposed to "I cannot afford a warm bed period." I think governmet knows this and will do just enough to make sure you can stay in your warm bed, eat pizza and watch Netflix if you're a good boy who behaves himself.

 

[SolidStateSurvivor]

If something huge like housing fell apart to the point where you ended up with a large class of homeless working people who are not mentally ill or addicts, I think a huge conflict would be more likely. I don't think things are that dire yet, though.

With there being rumblings of major foreign powers (Russia, China, India, etc) abandoning USD as the standard, could something like that possibly lead to the situation described above? US has historically seen periods of economic downturn/social unrest, but we don't really have a precedent for that sort of situation.

 

[punishedgnome]

With there being rumblings of major foreign powers (Russia, China, India, etc) abandoning USD as the standard, could something like that possibly lead to the situation described above? US has historically seen periods of economic downturn/social unrest, but we don't really have a precedent for that sort of situation.

It's hard to tell. The thing is, the US and Canada together is over 12% of the world's landmass while having just around 6% of the world's total population. Canada alone has 7% of the world's drinkable water. Parts of Canada and the US are sitting on an abundance of oil and minerals. They functionally work as a single economic unit and there are more than enough resources between the two to keep everyone in either country relatively comfortable. I'm not so sure either country needs China or India for anything other than cheap labour. Even if there was an economic depression, with today's tech, notably better than it was in the 1930s, the low population density in North America and the abundance of arable land between the US and Canada, I find it hard to believe wide-spread starvation would be on the table unless something totally retarded happens like government nationalizing all farmland, like the Soviet Union, or a nuke glassing the prairies and destroying all the good farmland.

I just have a hard time believing things will reach the point in the US or Canada where a reasonably competent person won't have to option to go to their room, cover up in a warm blanket, watch tv/play vidya and eat pizza barring some cataclysmic disaster. I think as long as people can do that, full-scale civil war is extremely unlikely.

 

[housepoopr]

Nah, mutts will never do anything. They rather sit on their fat arses and go on about muh guns and "once it reaches muh suburbs" etc. If covid protests were anything you could use to give an estimate than we look at probably a few thousand people that would do something.

How sad it is. I don't doubt this is the case. The government has shown that the intellegence agencies exist to suppress the right and support the leftists insurrections. When leftists storm congress, or state congresses, to stop the passage of a bill, it's a historic struggle against tyranny.

If you're on the right it's a treason and they'll hunt you down like a dog, perp walk you, and at a minimum destroy your reputation and harass your family. It's only an insurrection when the right does something. That poor little granny with the flag and the smile got treated like Osama Bin Laden.


What do you do when the insurrection already took place, it was a legal insurrection, and the subversives are no longer outside the system, but run and operate the system? You know what I mean.

 

[Regal]

it was a legal insurrection

Insurrections are always illegal. I think you're looking for "protest." Protest is legal, but once you bring violence against the government it becomes insurrection. The government would never allow for a legal insurrection against itself.

 

[Some_porcupine]

The government would never allow for a legal insurrection against itself.

yes. undermines validity and solution-making

 

[SolidStateSurvivor]

but once you bring violence against the government it becomes insurrection based

fixed it for you

The government would never allow for a legal insurrection against itself.

In theory the US constitution allows for some forms of this, and at the very least clearly establishes its righteousness in the preamble, however like you said in practice it is forbidden.
In terms of relevancy not even like the constitution matters though, it's merely a source of rhetorical arguments that less and less people care about.

 

[Deleted member 1982]

rhetorical arguments

This. I can tell you from Yugoslavia that a civil war does not happen with like a group of righteous people connecting in the underground like its a movie.

They start on football fields, in pubs, on the road. Suddenly the usual discussion inside the pub turns violent and in case of yugoslavia people from different religion or cultural region start fighting over seemingly nothing. Than during a regional football much between a team based in the North against a team based in the south the referee favours a side and enraged fans start getting violent, throw stuff at the referee and the other team and then just start fights with the opposing fans, etc etc. Until a point where people with some authority and power openly pick a side and e.g. the battalion commander that is croatian and commands croatian troops order an alert and for everyone to come back to croatian lands with their equipment. Than of course the serbs hear this and do the same, the bosnians notice troop movement and do the same etc etc rinse and repeat and then at a very crucial point, perhaps when soldiers of the army but different culture meet someone has a loose finger, is too upset or is just at his limits shoots at the other.
Than their is civil war.

I really advise anyone to read up on the characteristics of what lead to the yugoslavian civil war. Preferably, if you can ask actual people from yugoslavia that would be the best. I did so, since we have many refugees that settled here after the war.

Up until the very crucial point, and my parents were in yugoslavia in the 90s, you dont notice anything. You only notice that the checkpoints urge you to not stray around outside the towns and streets and perhaps some might tell you to go home. But it becomes increasingly eerie and abandoned.

There is no grand scheme or grand organisation. Because everyone already knows who is on his or her side and seeks them out when the first rumours of mutiny or major disagreements circle around.

 

[Dr. MacGutsy]

I'd like to see how the 2024 election goes. Regardless of whoever ends up office there I think there's gonna be some pretty wacky things going on in the streets right after.

 

[manpaint]

From the perspective of a dude living in Quebec, I think your country is highly polarized. Now, all my info on the USA is from the internet, so I assume my perspective is a bit deformed (as only the bad parts are shown), but damn seeing all those sentiment on Agora makes me feel like I live in a parallel dimension where everything is fine lol.

I don't think a civil war would start soon, but if nothing is done to correct the awful tribalism going on I would expect serious trouble in like 10 years.

I really wonder what makes America so different than us considering our state is basically a slightly different variation of the USA. The only real difference I can think off is the fact that the slient revolution happened - an event in summer of '60 where people started giving a fuck about religion because cinema became a thing. Historically speaking religion was imposed on us by the governement whereas in America it is practiced by the choice of the people. Maybe the fact we avoided that giant conservative vs liberal clash is what changed everthing.

 

[SolidStateSurvivor]

Because everyone already knows who is on his or her side and seeks them out when the first rumours of mutiny or major disagreements circle around.

Kind of felt that way during covid/the lockdowns, or is it just me?

Maybe the fact we avoided that giant conservative vs liberal clash is what changed everthing.

As an American looking in it seems like Canada avoided that at the expense of becoming a liberal totalitarian nation, with that puppet Trudeau really accelerating things.

 

[manpaint]

Kind of felt that way during covid/the lockdowns, or is it just me?


As an American looking in it seems like Canada avoided that at the expense of becoming a liberal totalitarian nation, with that puppet Trudeau really accelerating things.

>2SLLGBTQI+

Oh god that acronym can't stop growing.

Speaking from my perspective, that kind of libertarianism is exclusively confined to big cities. It's not like conservatives are not allowed to exists, they just mostly do in rural areas. We're kinda like in our own corners doing whatever we like and IMO this way better than the presumed shitshow going on in America.

Idk how Canada is protrayed in American media, but I think we have healthy dose everything all thing considered. As the axiom says, supressing idea tend to backfire horribly, so its much more efficient to alocate it a corner in our culture and leave it to its own device.

 

[InsufferableCynic]

Kind of felt that way during covid/the lockdowns, or is it just me?


As an American looking in it seems like Canada avoided that at the expense of becoming a liberal totalitarian nation, with that puppet Trudeau really accelerating things.

Hell, I'm gay and I don't know what half those letters mean! How is any normal person meant to keep up?

 

[Dr. MacGutsy]

Hell, I'm gay and I don't know what half those letters mean! How is any normal person meant to keep up?

I think that more and more people are included in an effort by corpo types to make money via creating some semblance of community with a low barrier to entry (doesn't get more basic than sexuality and gender) then making it taboo within that community not to buy merchandise based of your sexuality/gender from the previously mentioned corpo types. Maybe I'm way off there. I don't know.

 

[llillilll]

Hope it happens, i hate America.

 

[Some_porcupine]

Hope it happens, i hate America.

well i wonder - where those people got so much patience
i would expect that anytime soon, (seeing on twt and tumblr) "Biden lies" about student debts curbing, about GOP being "fascist"...

 

[llillilll]

well i wonder - where those people got so much patience
i would expect that anytime soon, (seeing on twt and tumblr) "Biden lies" about student debts curbing, about GOP being "fascist"...

The average republican here would die for the government and the leftists are running the government right now. I don't think they would ever fight,

 

[Some_porcupine]

The average republican here would die for the government

Was this always a thing, or there was some shift, swap?

 

[llillilll]

Was this always a thing, or there was some shift, swap?

Not government directly but do you know any republican on this site that wouldn't die for a rich white man?