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Pornography Recovery Thread

Linkat

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I think the case against porn doesn't stick because it doesn't appear to be unhealthy enough apparently. Aside from some super loners who get really hard into it, there's not much different than alc or tobacco. Many do it, only some are actually crippled by it.

Edit: As opposed to e.g. Heroin where most who do it are also crippled by it
Again I would say you're looking at this too individually. It really doesn't matter if some people aren't affected by it as it has plenty of other negative side effects such as the type of conditions most porn is made in, the impact on the people involved in it, and the fact that women have to be socially engineered into it when without engineering you would probably find that most women would not be interested in making this crap. Even if it doesn't lead to social anxiety and what have you it's still causes the breaking down of social bonds.
 
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no_chill

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Just stop watching Porn and get a job or some hobbies instead, like the gym or local politics.

And most importantly, get laid.

Ideally you shouldn't even have time for porn anymore
 
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Full disclosure that I am a post-wall married woman in a thread of what looks like mostly young guys talking about porn habits, so I'm probably missing something critical here, but...

I don't really think it matters if you haven't absolutely fried yourself on porn to the extent you can't have normal, healthy sexual relationships. If you're at a point where you're getting the jitters because you've acclimated to beating off 7 times a day, you might be better off without it. If you find yourself in an intimate situation with a person and your body's not responding like it should, you have a problem.

I guess it's an issue of moderation (like almost everything in life) and for some, moderation means 'none'. If you are trying to quit for whatever reason, I wish you luck, but please don't berate yourself for having normal adult sexuality. I don't have sources on hand but I remember a study (on the heels of a poll where men volunteered their info) that suggested most of the men who believed they had a porn addiction actually viewed porn about as much as their non-addict peers, they just had more shame about it.
 

Jessica3cho

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Again I would say you're looking at this too individually. It really doesn't matter if some people aren't affected by it as it has plenty of other negative side effects such as the type of conditions most porn is made in, the impact on the people involved in it, and the fact that women have to be socially engineered into it when without engineering you would probably find that most women would not be interested in making this crap. Even if it doesn't lead to social anxiety and what have you it's still causes the breaking down of social bonds.
You are simply making assertions without providing any evidence to back these claims up.

The tens of thousands of years that pornagraphy and prostitution have existed would be enough to argue that your assertion that the afforementioned leads directly to the breaking of social bonds is wrong.
 
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Linkat

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Full disclosure that I am a post-wall married woman in a thread of what looks like mostly young guys talking about porn habits, so I'm probably missing something critical here, but...

I don't really think it matters if you haven't absolutely fried yourself on porn to the extent you can't have normal, healthy sexual relationships. If you're at a point where you're getting the jitters because you've acclimated to beating off 7 times a day, you might be better off without it. If you find yourself in an intimate situation with a person and your body's not responding like it should, you have a problem.

I guess it's an issue of moderation (like almost everything in life) and for some, moderation means 'none'. If you are trying to quit for whatever reason, I wish you luck, but please don't berate yourself for having normal adult sexuality. I don't have sources on hand but I remember a study (on the heels of a poll where men volunteered their info) that suggested most of the men who believed they had a porn addiction actually viewed porn about as much as their non-addict peers, they just had more shame about it.
Yes and the shame is there for a reason. Because it's a bad thing to have in society.

You are simply making assertions without providing any evidence to back these claims up.

The tens of thousands of years that pornagraphy and prostitution have existed would be enough to argue that your assertion that the afforementioned leads directly to the breaking of social bonds is wrong.
What are you talking about? Prostitution has existed for thousands of years and although it is bad it is not as bad as porn. But porn existing for thousands of years? Just because there were breasts on some statues does not equate to pornography. This assumes that human sexuality is this fixed innate thing that is not changing across time when it is in fact very much socially created. For example in ancient Greece (specifically among the Minoans) the women typically had their chests exposed. This is also the case in many places in Africa. Do those societies all of a sudden have an issue with the men being constantly aroused? Hell in Greece homosexuality was widely practiced among (usually younger) men because society viewed it as acceptible. Find me cases of images from the past ten thousand years that were attested to have been used for the purposes of arousing the viewer and I'll believe your claim.
 
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Jessica3cho

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Find me cases of images from the past ten thousand years that were attested to have been used for the purposes of arousing the viewer and I'll believe your claim.
The Venus statues of the Upper Paleolithic that depict sex rites and orgies. Glyptic art from the Sumerian ED commonly depicted explicit acts. The last 12 vignettes of the Egyptian Deir el-Medina display exclusively erotic imagery created for wealthy audiences. Large collections of erotic art was uncoovered during excavations of Pompeii, dating from the early Roman period.
 
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Linkat

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The Venus statues of the Upper Paleolithic that depict sex rites and orgies. Glyptic art from the Sumerian ED commonly depicted explicit acts. The last 12 vignettes of the Egyptian Deir el-Medina display exclusively erotic imagery created for wealthy audiences. Large collections of erotic art was uncoovered during excavations of Pompeii, dating from the early Roman period.
That still doesn't constitute it as there would have to be records of people using it for that purpose. The Romans depicted this stuff a lot but it had more to do with power symbolism than arousing the viewer. Plus you also have to ask the question of if these were public or not. If the images were publically displayed then it was almost definitely not intended for that purpose. If they came in smaller, more portable forms, then you might have a case. But even then it wouldn't matter as you would then have to demonstrate if the average person had access to these or not. A few deviants in the aristocracy of the time wouldn't prove anything (in fact it would more than likely prove my claim that it causes social decline).
 
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The Venus statues of the Upper Paleolithic that depict sex rites and orgies. Glyptic art from the Sumerian ED commonly depicted explicit acts. The last 12 vignettes of the Egyptian Deir el-Medina display exclusively erotic imagery created for wealthy audiences. Large collections of erotic art was uncoovered during excavations of Pompeii, dating from the early Roman period.
Comparing mud statues to on demand infinite real pornography that satisfies every imaginable fetish at the click of a button is disingenuous. Niggas weren't sitting around masturbating to this all day

1652293885043.png
 
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Jessica3cho

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That still doesn't constitute it as there would have to be records of people using it for that purpose.

There are. There is historical documentation of these things being used as objects of arousal.

The Romans depicted this stuff a lot but it had more to do with power symbolism than arousing the viewer.

I'm going to put emphasis on your 'more'. Yes, sexual domination was a symbol of power, at least to the later Roman people. This is partially due in part to early paganistic Romanii beliefs that the goddess of fertility (and in some sects the Goddess of the home or hearth as well) was the most mighty of gods and also the most stable of gods for private worship. Dominating one sexually was almost like a writ of ownership being presented to the gods. Does this make it less pornographic? No, not at all. Romans still told stories, sang songs, and enacted plays that were highly erotic for the purpose of eliciting sexual arousal from the crowd. There was no better way to get a Roman official on your side than make a product that aroused them.

Plus you also have to ask the question of if these were public or not. If the images were publically displayed then it was almost definitely not intended for that purpose. If they came in smaller, more portable forms, then you might have a case. But even then it wouldn't matter as you would then have to demonstrate if the average person had access to these or not. A few deviants in the aristocracy of the time wouldn't prove anything (in fact it would more than likely prove my claim that it causes social decline).

You actually argue against this point yourself with an earlier quote. This here:
This assumes that human sexuality is this fixed innate thing that is not changing across time when it is in fact very much socially created.
You are arguing from a modern perspective of what is acceptable when it comes to pornography. Unlike modern times, privacy was not as readily available and art (regardless of whether it was pornographic or not) was even less available than that. Art of any kind was difficult to produce and circulate, until the invention of the printing press. That is, in fact, why art was typically public and, if it was not, was only owned by the wealthy. To judge whether something was sexually explicit material by modern cultural standards is silly. What we do know, though, is that cultures through history both revered pornographic art and revered the act of masturbation, both being seen as positives.
 
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Jessica3cho

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If you cant even admit that busting a nut makes you lethargic idk what to tell you. Its not like it makes you absolutely useless but it certainly makes you have less energy and willpower to do useful things.
Strawman.

Yes, busting a nut makes you lethargic to some degree. Perhaps for an hour or so? Typically, the effects of alcohol last longer than post-nut lethargy and if you have prolonged episodes of lethargy you either:
a. Masturbate too much
b. Need to reconsider your overall health
 
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Jessica3cho

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Comparing mud statues to on demand infinite real pornography that satisfies every imaginable fetish at the click of a button is disingenuous. Niggas weren't sitting around masturbating to this all day

View attachment 28173
When did I make that comparison?

Linkat asked for instances throughout history of images that were used for the purpose of arousing the viewer. I have provided them.
Did I say sitting around masturbating to on-demand pornography all day is healthy?
 
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Strawman.

Yes, busting a nut makes you lethargic to some degree. Perhaps for an hour or so? Typically, the effects of alcohol last longer than post-nut lethargy and if you have prolonged episodes of lethargy you either:
a. Masturbate too much
b. Need to reconsider your overall health
Idk man my health is totally dialled in and it still takes a toll on me for at 24 hours after the fact. I train 6 times a week and that doesn't come close to making me as tired. Though this is a subjective claim so I cant argue too hard on it.
There is historical documentation of these things being used as objects of arousal.
Linkat asked for instances throughout history of images that were used for the purpose of arousing the viewer. I have provided them.
Define "object of arousal". People can make art that's attractive without it being made for masturbation. Even ritual sex acts are a separate issue entirely since they weren't a thing people did multiple times a week. Its irrelevant to the discussion to even lump them in together and I feel like you were taking what Linkat said too literally when its obvious he didn't mean "no attractive art was ever made". Its absolutely true that pornography as we know it today was at best extremely rare/only for the upper classes bar a few exceptions and at worst non-existent in most societies.
 
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Linkat

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There are. There is historical documentation of these things being used as objects of arousal.



I'm going to put emphasis on your 'more'. Yes, sexual domination was a symbol of power, at least to the later Roman people. This is partially due in part to early paganistic Romanii beliefs that the goddess of fertility (and in some sects the Goddess of the home or hearth as well) was the most mighty of gods and also the most stable of gods for private worship. Dominating one sexually was almost like a writ of ownership being presented to the gods. Does this make it less pornographic? No, not at all. Romans still told stories, sang songs, and enacted plays that were highly erotic for the purpose of eliciting sexual arousal from the crowd. There was no better way to get a Roman official on your side than make a product that aroused them.



You actually argue against this point yourself with an earlier quote. This here:

You are arguing from a modern perspective of what is acceptable when it comes to pornography. Unlike modern times, privacy was not as readily available and art (regardless of whether it was pornographic or not) was even less available than that. Art of any kind was difficult to produce and circulate, until the invention of the printing press. That is, in fact, why art was typically public and, if it was not, was only owned by the wealthy. To judge whether something was sexually explicit material by modern cultural standards is silly. What we do know, though, is that cultures through history both revered pornographic art and revered the act of masturbation, both being seen as positives.
These sources? Can I have them?

And mind you you're talking about the aristocracy here. Which honestly just makes the situation worse because the Roman aristocracy were degenerate and Rome itself was awful by the end. Paganism died for a reason.

But that's the thing if this artwork counts as pornographic by today's standards can you say it was at the time it was made? You admit I'm correct when I say that what is pronographic is socially constructed and then go on to claim that these societies had access to porn even though there are still no records of people viewing it in that manner.

And revered the act of masturbation? Which societies are we talking here because the Greeks hated that stuff. They considered it only acceptable for slaves. I do not know of a society that accepts these things unless that society is in decline.
 
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<vengeance>

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I don't think many people on this forum will disagree with the notion that pornography is, at least, harmfully addictive to many. Personally, I see it as a scourge on humanity that absolutely wrecks one's relationship with the opposite sex (and even the same sex, if you get brain dead enough) because porn makes you obsess over the intimate with strangers.

Clearly, I'm not the only one who holds this sentiment—my clamberings through 4chan have made that clear—so I thought I'd open a thread for those who are obsessed with pornography and want help. Let me say from personal experience that, yes, there is a way out.
that whole lifestyle is just complete poison
 

Jessica3cho

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Idk man my health is totally dialled in and it still takes a toll on me for at 24 hours after the fact. I train 6 times a week and that doesn't come close to making me as tired. Though this is a subjective claim so I cant argue too hard on it.

Sorry to hear it takes such a toll on you, but yeah, it is all pretty subjective/anecdotal.

Define "object of arousal". People can make art that's attractive without it being made for masturbation. Even ritual sex acts are a separate issue entirely since they weren't a thing people did multiple times a week. Its irrelevant to the discussion to even lump them in together and I feel like you were taking what Linkat said too literally when its obvious he didn't mean "no attractive art was ever made". Its absolutely true that pornography as we know it today was at best extremely rare/only for the upper classes bar a few exceptions and at worst non-existent in most societies.

This just comes back to Linkat's statement that different cultures have changed their perception of sex overtime.
Linkat said, "Find me cases of images from the past ten thousand years that were attested to have been used for the purposes of arousing the viewer and I'll believe your claim."
I told him about cases of such. He did not believe my claim. He still hasn't provided me anything other than his own subjective view regarding the idea that pornography will eventually destroy social bonds (which they haven't expanded upon what exactly they mean regarding that terminology).

If the only thing people are going to say is, "YoU cAn'T kNoW bEcAuSe CuLtUrE ChAnGeS", well, then... "You can't know either, because culture changes. I don't know what else to tell ya.
 
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Sorry to hear it takes such a toll on you, but yeah, it is all pretty subjective/anecdotal.



This just comes back to Linkat's statement that different cultures have changed their perception of sex overtime.
Linkat said, "Find me cases of images from the past ten thousand years that were attested to have been used for the purposes of arousing the viewer and I'll believe your claim."
I told him about cases of such. He did not believe my claim. He still hasn't provided me anything other than his own subjective view regarding the idea that pornography will eventually destroy social bonds (which they haven't expanded upon what exactly they mean regarding that terminology).

If the only thing people are going to say is, "YoU cAn'T kNoW bEcAuSe CuLtUrE ChAnGeS", well, then... "You can't know either, because culture changes. I don't know what else to tell ya.
Cultures have changed it but that doesn't make it ok. The point is that what is considered sexual is largely that which is taboo. It is taboo for a human being to walk around naked and as such seeing your partner naked causes arousal. As far as I'm concerned this is healthy. However this can be hijacked and redirected to other things. Porn largely relies on shock value. That is why it is particularly poisonous compared to say, tabacco or alcohol. With things like alcohol it is purely about the individual. You can drink yourself to death and it won't affect anyone besides yourself and the people around you. But with porn it's far worse because it has a much wider affect on courtship. When I say social bonds I mean as in things like trust between individuals, the ability to even speak to someone of the opposite sex. As I mentioned before I knew a guy who had fantasies of raping every woman he met. The first thing that popped into his mind was images of himself raping another person. I myself had somewhat similar problems. This results in dehumanisation as the man will instantly be thinking of means to fulfill his perverted fantasies rather than connecting with the person in front of them. That's a good example of what that stuff does to the mind. This is also bad for women as they're now constantly on edge around men as many of them are approaching with only sexual intentions. Men will either go in with the PUA mindset or cower away out of guilt and/or shame (which is what I tended to do). That's the primary way it erodes social bonds.
 
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Jessica3cho

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These sources? Can I have them?

You sure ask for a lot for somebody who hasn't provided any evidence, stats, or documentation. But here:
https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2009.473 (And here is a layman's variation of that document: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature07995)

But that's the thing if this artwork counts as pornographic by today's standards can you say it was at the time it was made? You admit I'm correct when I say that what is pronographic is socially constructed and then go on to claim that these societies had access to porn even though there are still no records of people viewing it in that manner.

You're continuing to make an argument from a modern perspective. Read the documentation. Do your own research.

And revered the act of masturbation? Which societies are we talking here because the Greeks hated that stuff. They considered it only acceptable for slaves. I do not know of a society that accepts these things unless that society is in decline.

The Sumerians: https://www.ishtartemple.org/myth.htm

The Egyptians: Richard H. Wilkinson, Complete Gods and Goddesses (https://archive.org/details/completegodsgodd00wilk_0/page/206/mode/2up)

To touch on your addition, the Greeks actually viewed masturbation as a normal and regular activity: https://books.google.com/books?id=E...PA359#v=snippet&q=satyrs masturbation&f=false
 
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CognacDefender

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You sure ask for a lot for somebody who hasn't provided any evidence, stats, or documentation. But here:
https://www.nature.com/articles/news.2009.473 (And here is a layman's variation of that document: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature07995)



You're continuing to make an argument from a modern perspective. Read the documentation. Do your own research.



The Sumerians: https://www.ishtartemple.org/myth.htm

The Egyptians: Richard H. Wilkinson, Complete Gods and Goddesses (https://archive.org/details/completegodsgodd00wilk_0/page/206/mode/2up)

To touch on your addition, the Greeks actually viewed masturbation as a normal and regular activity: https://books.google.com/books?id=EflODgAAQBAJ&q=satyrs+masturbation&pg=PA359#v=snippet&q=satyrs masturbation&f=false
But the thing is, Jessie, you are a furry so your argument is entirely invalid.
 
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Jessica3cho

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However this can be hijacked and redirected to other things. Porn largely relies on shock value.

This is dripping with pure subjectivism.

When I say social bonds I mean as in things like trust between individuals, the ability to even speak to someone of the opposite sex.

Oh, in that case, there's little evidence that pornography will destroy such. Can you provide the sources you are using to make this determination?

As I mentioned before I knew a guy who had fantasies of raping every woman he met. The first thing that popped into his mind was images of himself raping another person. I myself had somewhat similar problems. This results in dehumanisation as the man will instantly be thinking of means to fulfill his perverted fantasies rather than connecting with the person in front of them.

That is a personal mental health issue, combined with a subjective world view. There are plenty of healthy adult males who watch porn and neither want to rape women nor dehumanize them (outside of consensual kink activity).
 
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