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Questions on the fundamentals and understanding a few things

Bioluminescence

Well-Known Traveler
Awards
23
Hey All,

My Love for Vaporwave is a recent and passionate affair away from my standard listening experiences, so please excuse my ignorance when it comes to some topics. Since I've seen many bright minds on this site giving very interesting opinions on some matters, I'm trying to untangle some ideas which are associated with the Vaporwave genre. Here are my questions.

- What is Vaporwave and how would you define it?

- Would other similar types of music styles for instance, slushwave, dreampunk, etc etc, be considered a subgenre or would simply fall under the umbrella of Vaporwave?

- How do our definitions of Vaporwave let the genre grow and reach out to new places? What are some new things which artists are brining into the genre?

As more questions and ideas come, I'll post them.

I'm interested to hear any opinions or thoughts on the matter!
 
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vaporghoul

どこにいますか?
Awards
4
Vaporwave, in essence is how you define it. Or at least that is what I think, I've been in the scene since around 2016 and what is and isn't vaporwave has always fluctuated and been a debate. If you want to know exactly how I'd define Vaporwave, I'd say it is a genre of music that mostly relies and extreme sample manipulation to evoke Avant Garde feelings and craft a narrative through it. The never ending umbrella of Vaporwave has really extended it's reach throughout pop culture a lot for what it is, in places like fasion and aesthetics. Which is why it is so misinterpreted to most as they've mostly heard that one slowed down Diana Ross song and thought, "ok thats vaporwave".

I'd definitely say that subgenres like slushwave, vaportrap, vaporgoth fit under the category to vaporwave as influences in the early movement and its core ideals are present. I do however believe there are exceptions however I could talk all day.
 
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vaporwavemaster1

Eccojamming Emperor
Awards
28
ヴェイパーウェイヴがすべてを網羅しているとは言えません。ルールや慣習が定められており、専門家はヴェイパーウェイヴとは何かを見分けることができます。それでも、このジャンルは人々が当初考えていたものをはるかに超えて成長しました。
 
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Bioluminescence

Well-Known Traveler
Awards
23
Vaporwave, in essence is how you define it. Or at least that is what I think, I've been in the scene since around 2016 and what is and isn't vaporwave has always fluctuated and been a debate. If you want to know exactly how I'd define Vaporwave, I'd say it is a genre of music that mostly relies and extreme sample manipulation to evoke Avant Garde feelings and craft a narrative through it. The never ending umbrella of Vaporwave has really extended it's reach throughout pop culture a lot for what it is, in places like fasion and aesthetics. Which is why it is so misinterpreted to most as they've mostly heard that one slowed down Diana Ross song and thought, "ok thats vaporwave".

I'd definitely say that subgenres like slushwave, vaportrap, vaporgoth fit under the category to vaporwave as influences in the early movement and its core ideals are present. I do however believe there are exceptions however I could talk all day.
I like your description and definition! The idea of keeping it loose and somewhat open to interpretation, allows for artists to further explore the bounds of the genre and even redefine what it is and what it is not.
Before I got into Vaporwave I'd listen to a lot of ambient and drone, with subgenres of course, but I'm also intrigued by the feelings evoked in me when I listen to dreampunk for instance. But then again what is dreampunk and where does it end and something else begins? Imposing definitions of things pins old Proteus down and gives us the right answers, but at a loss of the ambiguity where creativity is born and thrives.
I've always been interested in the liminal and where the boundaries begin to blur between things, because as one begins to look into divisions of whatever sort closer and closer, abstract as well as concrete, our notions of what's what begins to dissolve. For instance where does Earth's atmosphere end precisely? Or, a topic which I like far more than physics (applied mathematics is how I feel about it) is the distilled notion of identity when gazed with biological lenses; what defines me as me and not me as the other?
Now Vaporwave aesthetics are just really cool. I feel like they are an untapped vein of gold for artists of today and tomorrow; talk about surrealism finding a niche and evolving!
What's a subgenre of Vaporwave which you've noticed emerging?
Tell me some of the changes you've seen happening in Vaporwave for the past years; I'd like to hear your opinion.
 
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Bioluminescence

Well-Known Traveler
Awards
23
ヴェイパーウェイヴがすべてを網羅しているとは言えません。ルールや慣習が定められており、専門家はヴェイパーウェイヴとは何かを見分けることができます。それでも、このジャンルは人々が当初考えていたものをはるかに超えて成長しました。
I have some questions I'd like to hear your opinion on:
What are some of the changes Vaporwave has gone through that you have noticed the most?
How does it impact what's next to come?
 
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IlluminatiPirate

Well-Known Traveler
Awards
41
- What is Vaporwave and how would you define it?
I remember when I first started to get into the community I was into dark web/piracy stuff. I loved the nostalgic impact that it had on me in a sort of an internet born genre. I feel when artists were anonymous and they were just making music circumventing copyright laws it was very like the privacy community. But I would probably define it as a sample based music with internet nostalgic elements.
- Would other similar types of music styles for instance, slushwave, dreampunk, etc etc, be considered a subgenre or would simply fall under the umbrella of Vaporwave?
I would say so.
- How do our definitions of Vaporwave let the genre grow and reach out to new places? What are some new things which artists are brining into the genre
I would say keep the nostalgia factor intact thats what makes it great
in trouble lol GIF by Nicky Rojo
 
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vaporwavemaster1

Eccojamming Emperor
Awards
28
I have some questions I'd like to hear your opinion on:
What are some of the changes Vaporwave has gone through that you have noticed the most?
How does it impact what's next to come?

私は最初に爆発したときに運動に参加しました、そしてそれ以来かなりの数の変化があったと思います。

まず、サブジャンルとスタイルの急増により、蒸気波はさらに多様化しています。私が最初に始めたとき、あなたが選ぶことができるアルバムはほんのわずかでした、そしてそれらのどれも多くを実験したり、蒸気波の信じられないほどの可能性を理解していませんでした。当時、ヴェイパーウェイヴは珍しいジャンルであり、あちこちのフォーラムで言及されており、ライムワイヤーで販売されている曲がいくつかありました。

今日、蒸気波ミュージシャンには多くの道があります。あなたが所属できる出版社、クラブ、代理店は複数あります。これはこのジャンルに良いと思います。このジャンルはサンプリングに依存しており、変革をもたらすため、適切な法務チームを持つ優れた出版社は、ミュージシャンを法的措置から保護することができます。当時、いくつかの横行し、不当な法的主張がなされ、ミュージシャンができることはほとんどありませんでした。ファーサイドバーチャルの作者であるジェームズ・フェラーリがかつてソニーに訴えられたのを覚えています。彼らが負けた間、彼は彼らと戦うために多くの時間と労力を浪費しました。彼はその時間を良い音楽の制作に費やすことができたでしょう。

それから、私がこのシーンで見た主な進展は、蒸気波のメタ性の高まりです。ヴェイパーウェイヴが始まったとき、それは実験的なループとブレンディングにすぎませんでしたが、それ以来、外部の視点からジャンルを分解して分析するのに役立つハードベーパーのようなジャンルの作成を見てきました。いくつかのばかげたリミックスが学術レベルで分析されるのを見るのは、確かに当時誰もが期待していたことではありませんでした。

ここから蒸気波の進化がどうなるかというと、今後はもっとジャンルが増えると思います。それらの性質は正確には言えませんでした。シェイクスピアが文学のためにしたことを、彼らは蒸気波のために行うかもしれないという可能性があります。しかし、私はそのシーンには参加しません。ベテランプロデューサーとして、私は自分のルーツに忠実であり続け、古典的なヴェイパーウェイヴを生み出すことに辞任しました。人間の状態についてはあまり語っていませんが、それは単純な楽しみであり、それでも蒸気波が新鮮で刺激的だった昔に私を連れ戻します。

これがいくらか役に立ったことを願っています。ゴッサマーの曲があなたの耳を優雅にしますように。
 
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Bioluminescence

Well-Known Traveler
Awards
23
私は最初に爆発したときに運動に参加しました、そしてそれ以来かなりの数の変化があったと思います。

まず、サブジャンルとスタイルの急増により、蒸気波はさらに多様化しています。私が最初に始めたとき、あなたが選ぶことができるアルバムはほんのわずかでした、そしてそれらのどれも多くを実験したり、蒸気波の信じられないほどの可能性を理解していませんでした。当時、ヴェイパーウェイヴは珍しいジャンルであり、あちこちのフォーラムで言及されており、ライムワイヤーで販売されている曲がいくつかありました。

今日、蒸気波ミュージシャンには多くの道があります。あなたが所属できる出版社、クラブ、代理店は複数あります。これはこのジャンルに良いと思います。このジャンルはサンプリングに依存しており、変革をもたらすため、適切な法務チームを持つ優れた出版社は、ミュージシャンを法的措置から保護することができます。当時、いくつかの横行し、不当な法的主張がなされ、ミュージシャンができることはほとんどありませんでした。ファーサイドバーチャルの作者であるジェームズ・フェラーリがかつてソニーに訴えられたのを覚えています。彼らが負けた間、彼は彼らと戦うために多くの時間と労力を浪費しました。彼はその時間を良い音楽の制作に費やすことができたでしょう。

それから、私がこのシーンで見た主な進展は、蒸気波のメタ性の高まりです。ヴェイパーウェイヴが始まったとき、それは実験的なループとブレンディングにすぎませんでしたが、それ以来、外部の視点からジャンルを分解して分析するのに役立つハードベーパーのようなジャンルの作成を見てきました。いくつかのばかげたリミックスが学術レベルで分析されるのを見るのは、確かに当時誰もが期待していたことではありませんでした。

ここから蒸気波の進化がどうなるかというと、今後はもっとジャンルが増えると思います。それらの性質は正確には言えませんでした。シェイクスピアが文学のためにしたことを、彼らは蒸気波のために行うかもしれないという可能性があります。しかし、私はそのシーンには参加しません。ベテランプロデューサーとして、私は自分のルーツに忠実であり続け、古典的なヴェイパーウェイヴを生み出すことに辞任しました。人間の状態についてはあまり語っていませんが、それは単純な楽しみであり、それでも蒸気波が新鮮で刺激的だった昔に私を連れ戻します。

これがいくらか役に立ったことを願っています。ゴッサマーの曲があなたの耳を優雅にしますように。

Thank you for the very well informed reply! I love hearing the opinions of artists on the work they do and their field; it's always such an interesting perspective and full of rare insight. I imagined some potential legal problem artists could incur from the malformed copyright monster of the deep, the big © especially with sampling. Yet I never thought the big bad companies would actually go to court against such a small and then underground group - compared to other well established and mainstream genres.

As an artist of another form (writing or I like to think of it as literature (tips fedora gloatingly)) copyright is such a tangled issue. For some people and instances it can help, but almost always at the expense of others and potentially the medium too, but that's another issue altogether. In my opinion, copyright for the film industry is more than often beyond ridiculous and has become as a tool of repression. In the writing world., well... thankfully public domain exists. Imagine Shakespeare holding a disney level copyright on Romances and anything in similar style... (no more crappy romances yay!)

But aside from that, it's so interesting to hear/read what Vaporwave means to others, because the whole emergence of the genre and all that came from it, is such an anomaly when one looks at it deeply. Given the right circumstances and conditions makes all the difference in being capable of loving the genre, even just getting it. And the underground beginnings only make way for inclusion by others, and thus new ways of expression are born from new perspectives, as long as the genre remains flexible and doesn't go sterile! But for every slowly sterilizing group/trend, the artists role (in my opinion) is to play the role of trickster and add a little life into whatever group they pull their tricks on!
 
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Bioluminescence

Well-Known Traveler
Awards
23
- What is Vaporwave and how would you define it?
I remember when I first started to get into the community I was into dark web/piracy stuff. I loved the nostalgic impact that it had on me in a sort of an internet born genre. I feel when artists were anonymous and they were just making music circumventing copyright laws it was very like the privacy community. But I would probably define it as a sample based music with internet nostalgic elements.
- Would other similar types of music styles for instance, slushwave, dreampunk, etc etc, be considered a subgenre or would simply fall under the umbrella of Vaporwave?
I would say so.
- How do our definitions of Vaporwave let the genre grow and reach out to new places? What are some new things which artists are brining into the genre
I would say keep the nostalgia factor intact thats what makes it great
in trouble lol GIF by Nicky Rojo
Ditto to that digital backalley trench-coat nostalgia. And ditto to the last one. At some moments I feel like there's something more to Vaporwave, a greater pull than the potent nostalgia it drenches us with. What exactly that could be, I dunno, maybe it's just my own imagination. But one day I'll find the right words to express it.
 
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vaporwavemaster1

Eccojamming Emperor
Awards
28
Thank you for the very well informed reply! I love hearing the opinions of artists on the work they do and their field; it's always such an interesting perspective and full of rare insight. I imagined some potential legal problem artists could incur from the malformed copyright monster of the deep, the big © especially with sampling. Yet I never thought the big bad companies would actually go to court against such a small and then underground group - compared to other well established and mainstream genres.

As an artist of another form (writing or I like to think of it as literature (tips fedora gloatingly)) copyright is such a tangled issue. For some people and instances it can help, but almost always at the expense of others and potentially the medium too, but that's another issue altogether. In my opinion, copyright for the film industry is more than often beyond ridiculous and has become as a tool of repression. In the writing world., well... thankfully public domain exists. Imagine Shakespeare holding a disney level copyright on Romances and anything in similar style... (no more crappy romances yay!)

But aside from that, it's so interesting to hear/read what Vaporwave means to others, because the whole emergence of the genre and all that came from it, is such an anomaly when one looks at it deeply. Given the right circumstances and conditions makes all the difference in being capable of loving the genre, even just getting it. And the underground beginnings only make way for inclusion by others, and thus new ways of expression are born from new perspectives, as long as the genre remains flexible and doesn't go sterile! But for every slowly sterilizing group/trend, the artists role (in my opinion) is to play the role of trickster and add a little life into whatever group they pull their tricks on!
はい、蒸気波はゆっくりと進化するジャンルであり、今日の蒸気波は以前の蒸気波とは大きく異なります。ヴェイパーウェイヴが主にリサイクルされたコンテンツからなるジャンルであることを考えると皮肉なことに、毎週新鮮な新しい開発があるようです。その生涯にわたってジャンルが変化するのを見るのは魅力的です
 
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Bioluminescence

Well-Known Traveler
Awards
23
はい、蒸気波はゆっくりと進化するジャンルであり、今日の蒸気波は以前の蒸気波とは大きく異なります。ヴェイパーウェイヴが主にリサイクルされたコンテンツからなるジャンルであることを考えると皮肉なことに、毎週新鮮な新しい開発があるようです。その生涯にわたってジャンルが変化するのを見るのは魅力的です
I wholeheartedly agree with the notion of watching things change so fast. When I was younger I used to play music and dabble with some production programs, and what you wrote of the recycled content reminded me at once of Philip Glass! How I began to play his pieces on Piano and carefully learned some of the tricks he did to keep up his huge output, while working with such a simple toolkit he managed to make some pretty impressive (albeit repetitive) content. Did you know Philip Glass developed his minimalistic style of music from the dramatic works of Samuel Beckett?
 
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vaporwavemaster1

Eccojamming Emperor
Awards
28
I wholeheartedly agree with the notion of watching things change so fast. When I was younger I used to play music and dabble with some production programs, and what you wrote of the recycled content reminded me at once of Philip Glass! How I began to play his pieces on Piano and carefully learned some of the tricks he did to keep up his huge output, while working with such a simple toolkit he managed to make some pretty impressive (albeit repetitive) content. Did you know Philip Glass developed his minimalistic style of music from the dramatic works of Samuel Beckett?
はい、フィリップグラスは非常に影響力のある作曲家です。実験音楽に関して言えば、ヴェイパーウェイヴはジョンケージからより多くの手がかりを得ると思います。たとえば、彼のナンバーピースは、クラシック音楽に対して、ヴェイパーウェイヴがポップミュージックに対して行うことを行います。
 
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Bioluminescence

Well-Known Traveler
Awards
23
はい、フィリップグラスは非常に影響力のある作曲家です。実験音楽に関して言えば、ヴェイパーウェイヴはジョンケージからより多くの手がかりを得ると思います。たとえば、彼のナンバーピースは、クラシック音楽に対して、ヴェイパーウェイヴがポップミュージックに対して行うことを行います。
John Cage (wonders in 4'33)? I haven't listened to him much, and didn't realize his influence was that great! But talk about someone who made the music world reevaluated the fundamentals of music.
 
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vaporwavemaster1

Eccojamming Emperor
Awards
28
John Cage (wonders in 4'33)? I haven't listened to him much, and didn't realize his influence was that great! But talk about someone who made the music world reevaluated the fundamentals of music.
彼のナンバーピースは彼の作品の中で最も影響力があり、数学的用語で注意深く構成されており、リスナーの脳を混乱させます。彼らは蒸気波と多くの共通点を持っています
 
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Bioluminescence

Well-Known Traveler
Awards
23
彼のナンバーピースは彼の作品の中で最も影響力があり、数学的用語で注意深く構成されており、リスナーの脳を混乱させます。彼らは蒸気波と多くの共通点を持っています
You've sparked my interest; I'm going to listen to them now!
 
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s i r o s ស៊ីរ៉ែន

[one step at a time] for the benefit of all beings
Awards
5
Hey All,

My Love for Vaporwave is a recent and passionate affair away from my standard listening experiences, so please excuse my ignorance when it comes to some topics. Since I've seen many bright minds on this site giving very interesting opinions on some matters, I'm trying to untangle some ideas which are associated with the Vaporwave genre. Here are my questions.

- What is Vaporwave and how would you define it?

- Would other similar types of music styles for instance, slushwave, dreampunk, etc etc, be considered a subgenre or would simply fall under the umbrella of Vaporwave?

- How do our definitions of Vaporwave let the genre grow and reach out to new places? What are some new things which artists are brining into the genre?

As more questions and ideas come, I'll post them.

I'm interested to hear any opinions or thoughts on the matter!
Hey! No worries, all and every interpretation is welcomed.

In my personal opinion, I see the vaporwave genre in a similar way to how psychedelia has evolved now as an umbrella term for so many different sects and variations on one or multiple ideas. I think all of the genres you listed are indeed vaporwave, and anyone who says otherwise I have to say is being reductionist. To deny an association is to negatively impact the genre as a whole.

Vaporwave can be so many different things: a cultural force for political upheaval, a biting critique of nostalgia, a revel in a time that never was, rampant consumerism. Much like the idea of sunyata, it can be everything and nothing, because nothing is everything. I hope this position doesn't sound too snobby.

My greatest desire is for vaporwave to constantly evolve and become something no one ever thought it could be. I believe reducing it into strict categories hurts that momentum, and can kill a genre or movement if one is not careful....

One other thing, I also believe any period in the history of music can qualify as vaporwave. From the 1960s to the classic style of 80s and 90s hyperconsumerism. The prime example here is "Purity Boys" by Blank Banshee, which utilizes Beach Boys samples to create a vaporwave song, or even Midnight Dynasty which goes in the completely opposite dark ambient direction while still maintaining the atmosphere and aesthetic presentation of vaporwave.

Ultimately, don't get too caught up with nomenclature or any codification of it. The genre is what you make of it, and as long as we aren't working against one another then we will continue to perpetuate growth in the genre as a whole
 
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vaporwavemaster1

Eccojamming Emperor
Awards
28
Hey! No worries, all and every interpretation is welcomed.

In my personal opinion, I see the vaporwave genre in a similar way to how psychedelia has evolved now as an umbrella term for so many different sects and variations on one or multiple ideas. I think all of the genres you listed are indeed vaporwave, and anyone who says otherwise I have to say is being reductionist. To deny an association is to negatively impact the genre as a whole.

Vaporwave can be so many different things: a cultural force for political upheaval, a biting critique of nostalgia, a revel in a time that never was, rampant consumerism. Much like the idea of sunyata, it can be everything and nothing, because nothing is everything. I hope this position doesn't sound too snobby.

My greatest desire is for vaporwave to constantly evolve and become something no one ever thought it could be. I believe reducing it into strict categories hurts that momentum, and can kill a genre or movement if one is not careful....

One other thing, I also believe any period in the history of music can qualify as vaporwave. From the 1960s to the classic style of 80s and 90s hyperconsumerism. The prime example here is "Purity Boys" by Blank Banshee, which utilizes Beach Boys samples to create a vaporwave song, or even Midnight Dynasty which goes in the completely opposite dark ambient direction while still maintaining the atmosphere and aesthetic presentation of vaporwave.

Ultimately, don't get too caught up with nomenclature or any codification of it. The genre is what you make of it, and as long as we aren't working against one another then we will continue to perpetuate growth in the genre as a whole
それは興味深い定義であり、それには多くのニュアンスがあります。ヴェイパーウェイヴソングでビーチボーイズを使用することは、このジャンルの真に新しい方向性であり、空白のバンシーが非常に革新的である理由の良い例です。
 
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