Safe diet

[HamoniPlazo]

This scientific stuff is making brainy hurty... I just avoid drinking sugary drinks and proccesed foods, and preferrably always drink/eat from glass containers.

 

[wavve-creator]

 

[Knows He Knows Not]

Actually took the time to read this thread and I actually agree with KHKN (enough strong emotions for today) .

But I think all this carnivore/paleo/keto shit is just an amerifat reaction to the realization that eating processed white slopbread AND slopmeat is not a good thing, and if you had to chose it would probably be better to eat just the slopmeat.
It's like they're so cucked out of their mind that now all bread is mcdonald's buns and it's nothing else. Literally the best meal you can give your body is bread made with semolina flour (raised with sourdough), zucchini roasted with a drizzle of olive oil and fresh goat cheese (incidentaly what you would probably eat if you lived in sardinia and were a shepherd, the people who on average live the longest in the world).

Actually decent bread is key to nutrition, and it is the food par excellence. By eating actually decent bread you get a slow dripfeed of insulin in your blood with no spikes, and that's why it is the food you would eat before running a marathon.

Now a lot of people claim they feel great doing a carnivore diet, I bet! Just wait till you're forty.

Carnivore/paleo/etc are people who want to excuse eating poorly, and its been going on for over a century; Keto is just a rebranded Atkins diet. This combined with the social culture surrounding meat (In the past being food for the rich giving it prestige, hunting being a masculine sport, the long tradition of meat eating in western nations, etc.) means that there is a lot of push back against what has basically already proven to be true about its deleterious effects.

However, bread is certainly not the "key to nutrition", the processing of flour raises its GI, and the mandatory 2% salt in bread (unless you enjoy Tuscan style stale bread so hard you could build a house out of it) means bread is a rather lackluster form of grain consumption. It also must be said that while semolina is not as finely ground as regular flour is (the harder more brittle durum wheat is what causes this cracking over grinding), it is still a refined grain that is made only of the endosperm. You can get whole grain semolina, but such a thing is harder to find. A regular whole grain bread would be healthier than a refined semolina, and a whole intact grain would be healthier than any whole grain flour turned to bread. Durum however does have more antioxidants through its yellow coloring, something modern wheat has had bred out. "Ancient grains" have this same property as Durum does, as for if Durum, Spelt, Einkorn, etc are better than one another I cannot say.

Also Sardinia is not the longest living population in the world, as of right now I believe that would be Loma Linda (A heavily vegetarian and vegan population in the USA.), certainly above Sardinia anyways.

 

[ark]

So, if I want to be on a carnivore diet, don't I have to spend a lot of money on high-quality meat? Like, if I buy the low-quality shit, why even bother with a diet that is allegedly healthy? Factory farmed animals are full of medicine and antibiotics in our country because the conditions on such farms facilitate epidemics and infections. However, it is the most efficient and cost-effective type of animal husbandry. I don't know what the prices are for organic meat elsewhere, but if I decide to eat daily organic meat I would probably pay as much euros for this in a month as my rent, probably even more.

 

[Hamadayoshi]

raw milk ( boil if you want)

To be clear, as someone who grew up around goats, this process is called pasteurization and makes raw milk un-raw. You would also do this every time if you were milking the animal and seeing where the milk comes from.

 

[kodeb8]

I'm no health expert, but seeing how much they change their minds, I'd say even health experts aren't exactly experts either. We used to be told that eating too much fat was really bad for you but carbs were harmless, but as it turns out, the exact opposite is true. We were also told that trans fats are harmless, but then it turned out that that's the one type of fat you should avoid at all costs.

So here's my two cents: eat unprocessed meats, with a small of carbs and vegetables on the side. Drink mostly water and avoid sugary drinks as much as possible. In fact, just try to avoid sugar in general as much as possible. This is the diet our great great great grandparents followed, and even though they didn't have the backing of labcoats, they did have hundreds of years of wisdom to see which type of foods would lead to a shorter life span.

 

[dreamsphere]

The easiest heuristic?

Don't eat things that come in a box or a bag. Agreed with the "parameter" of the grocery store idea, too. If you want to eat anything sweet, bake it yourself. Your laziness will stop you from consuming sweets, take it from me.

 

[abigaletale]

I've been making an effort to avoid heavily processed stuff, like foods with corn syrup and artificial additives. I stick to whole foods, like lean meats, veggies, and some clean protein from UK Biaxol for smoothies. It's helped me feel a lot better overall. As for water, I switched to filtered to avoid some of the weird stuff in tap water.

 

[punisheddead]

So, if I want to be on a carnivore diet, don't I have to spend a lot of money on high-quality meat? Like, if I buy the low-quality shit, why even bother with a diet that is allegedly healthy? Factory farmed animals are full of medicine and antibiotics in our country because the conditions on such farms facilitate epidemics and infections. However, it is the most efficient and cost-effective type of animal husbandry. I don't know what the prices are for organic meat elsewhere, but if I decide to eat daily organic meat I would probably pay as much euros for this in a month as my rent, probably even more.

Depends on who you ask. I'm no carnivore myself but i've heard a bunch of taking points anything ranging from chicken is a no go because it's missing certain key nutrients (which?) to your beef must be grass-fed because if it isn't you might as well be eating ultra processed slop. You'd have to ask around in the carnivore circles.

 

[sparrow_n9ne]

And who wrote that literature?

Name me one group of people who have built anything worth respecting that ate vegetarian.
"India" (the caste that built everything ate meat)
I'd rather shave off 5 years of my life eating meat and dairy than being a small-dicked small-brained manlet who's bought into the delusion that the diet of a poor farmer is healthy.

It's not healthy for you. It's just cheaper for the elite to feed you.


(P.S. Every veg*n fitness person is on juice, and I'm not talking carrot juice. To be fair, every fitness "influencer" is on roids, but I don't know a single veg*n IRL with any muscle mass.)

EDIT: Come to think of it, a lot makes sense now. Only a brain starved of vital nutrients could conjure up views as retarded as yours. Of course you're a vegetarian.

Lots of different scientists have published literature suggesting on the benefits of whole plant foods, the risks of high levels of animal product consumption, particularly red meat, and the benefits of dietary patterns that prioritize whole plant foods, which include vegetarian, mediterranean, DASH, and vegan diets.

But instead of reading literature, just keep implying that some nefarious group/people/elites are behind it all, that way you don't need to engage with anything that you disagree with. Afterall, "they" are behind anything you don't like!

 

[Vitnira]

Lots of different scientists have published literature suggesting on the benefits of whole plant foods, the risks of high levels of animal product consumption, particularly red meat, and the benefits of dietary patterns that prioritize whole plant foods, which include vegetarian, mediterranean, DASH, and vegan diets.

But instead of reading literature, just keep implying that some nefarious group/people/elites are behind it all, that way you don't need to engage with anything that you disagree with. Afterall, "they" are behind anything you don't like!

My question was "what great people who built anything of merit ate veg*n" and you responded "a bunch of skinnyfat libcucks with dubious funding told me it's healthy"

If I was a multimillionaire I'd pay for a bunch of studies that scientifically confirmed you like to guzzle cum, and I'd get them published because the modern state of scientific literature is a joke.

I have engaged with the literature, and gave my less shitposty response earlier, which you ignored. I maintain that different diets work for different people and excess of anything is usually bad. Psycho vegan diets are deficient in creatine, which literally makes you dumber, and keto dieters usually use it as an excuse to deep fry in seed oils and drink the day old oil.

Anyone evangelizing one Diet To Rule Them All is a faggot and I will tell them that, and for some reason, it's always plant based people trying to cram their shitty soy abominations down everyone's throats. I think the keto people are too busy enjoying steak and boning their harems of women to post here.

 

[sparrow_n9ne]

My question was "what great people who built anything of merit ate veg*n" and you responded "a bunch of skinnyfat libcucks with dubious funding told me it's healthy"

Yes, you asked this question in response to someone pointing out that literature supports vegetarian diets as healthy, but not before implying that their was something nefarious going on with the studies. It was an asinine response, much like your response to me. I'm noticing a pattern!

Asking "what great people ate a specific diet" doesn't actually tell us anything about that diet's effect on health. You need studies on dietary patterns for that. The fact that you thought that was a good line of inquiry shows how much of an idiot you are.

 

[Hamadayoshi]

My question was "what great people who built anything of merit ate veg*n"

Your original question was about vegetarians* and hitler was a vegetarian (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vegetarians) , now if by building you mean engineers or architects or construction workers, most of them would've worked in periods were meat consumption would've been at most weekly.
For the stuff about creatine, can you expound on that? It seems like all the creatine you need is synthesized in the human body, and that exogenous creatine is useful for building muscle and some mild cognitive health benefits. Now I haven't read the literature, but it seems to me that by exogenous creatine most web resources intend supplements, which will give you way more creatine than a carnivore diet, and are vegan(since most of it is lab synthesized).
Why would one need to adopt a diet that doesn't promote cardiovascular health or gastrointestinal health just for the benefits of trace amounts of a chemical our body produces by default?

 

[punisheddead]

For the stuff about creatine, can you expound on that? It seems like all the creatine you need is synthesized in the human body,

Not accurate, at least not completely. Half of your creatine stores are replenished by your diet, the other half is created by the body. In the long term your body might not produce enough to function properly causing cognitive deficits (21118604, 14561278). Personally creatine is a bit of meh example if you want to do the deficiency argument and it's need for supplementation even among vegans is disputed, however b12 is a lot more important being an essential nutrient and is mostly unattainable in a vegan/vegetarian diet. Hence supplementation is required.

...but it seems to me that by exogenous creatine most web resources intend supplements, which will give you way more creatine than a carnivore diet, and are vegan(since most of it is lab synthesized).

You give people way too much credit that they've actually researched what they need to supplement on their fancy new diet.

Why would one need to adopt a diet that doesn't promote cardiovascular health or gastrointestinal health just for the benefits of trace amounts of a chemical our body produces by default?

You should adopt a diet that works for you.

 

[Vitnira]

Yes, you asked this question in response to someone pointing out that literature supports vegetarian diets as healthy, but not before implying that their was something nefarious going on with the studies. It was an asinine response, much like your response to me. I'm noticing a pattern!

Asking "what great people ate a specific diet" doesn't actually tell us anything about that diet's effect on health. You need studies on dietary patterns for that. The fact that you thought that was a good line of inquiry shows how much of an idiot you are.

Move to India and enjoy your healthy vegetarian paradise then.

Your original question was about vegetarians* and hitler was a vegetarian (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vegetarians) , now if by building you mean engineers or architects or construction workers, most of them would've worked in periods were meat consumption would've been at most weekly.
For the stuff about creatine, can you expound on that? It seems like all the creatine you need is synthesized in the human body, and that exogenous creatine is useful for building muscle and some mild cognitive health benefits. Now I haven't read the literature, but it seems to me that by exogenous creatine most web resources intend supplements, which will give you way more creatine than a carnivore diet, and are vegan(since most of it is lab synthesized).
Why would one need to adopt a diet that doesn't promote cardiovascular health or gastrointestinal health just for the benefits of trace amounts of a chemical our body produces by default?

I'm talking about leaders you nincompoop and you know it. You have one psychopath whose empire collapsed in under a decade. Wow. Amazing.

"A diet that requires lab synthesized supplementation is definitely what a human should eat for optimal health"
The reason I'm not arguing with you seriously is that there's no serious argument to make. If I found the studies I found before that creatine is needed for cognitive development, you'd tell me a lab could synthesize it. If I showed you all the nutrients you lack in a veg*n diet, you'd tell me a lab could synthesize it.

You literally worship science. It's a religion to you, not a scientific one, and since The Great Science tells you plant based is Correct, it is now dogma not to be questioned, and the answer to criticism is to read the Holy Scripture harder. If you don't have a voice in your head screaming "why would I need a lab to make a plant based diet healthy if humans are healthiest with a plant based diet", there is no logical argument I can make that will pull you out of it. It's like arguing with a Christian, but even more annoying.

My serious argument was this - *be* a scientist instead of just following other people claiming to do science. Try out diets and take your own health metrics until you find one that works best. For me, that isn't veg*n. For OP it might be. It might not. It probably isn't. And the fact that you veg*ns are so culty and defensive of your awful, awful food is proof you have to evangelize instead of showing its health by example.

 

[UltramarineWeather]

Shit's simple: avoid sugar (incl. limiting your fruit intake, especially stuff like oranges or apples) and salt, eat plenty of meat, fish, dairy and vegetables. And most importantly, make your usual meals small, quantity is almost as important as quality and feasting should remain exceptional.

You have one psychopath whose empire collapsed in under a decade

Not like it collapsed by itself, lol.

Anyway, even if Hitler was a truly a full vegetarian, all the facts point to it being due to digestive and/or taste issues from gas poisoning in WW1.

 

[wavve-creator]

There is nothing safe about not wanting to improve your immune system by eating dirt. Chewing on your dirty finger nails builds a healthy immune system.

 

[Hamadayoshi]

I'm talking about leaders you nincompoop and you know it

The Hitler thing was kind of a bit. But I'm not worried about proving that leaders were vegetarian or not. Most world leaders were indeed meat-eaters, and also horrible people , and probably their success in life wasn't dependant on their dietary choices. Still if one wants to play this tit-for-tat game, I'm in the company of Nikola Tesla, Albert Einstein,Leo Tolstoy (gotta simp for him but he's literally the best novelist ever) and Leonardo da Vinci. So I'm not sweating it.

"A diet that requires lab synthesized supplementation is definitely what a human should eat for optimal health"

Yes. this is where we differ. I understand that what humanity has been trying to do since the beginning of conscience is to extricate itself from the context of nature and pain. Sure, it might look bad to eat "lab grown" food , it's less soulful than eating a dirty root straight out of the ground (what our ancestors actually did most of the time), but it's optimal, if you know what you're doing. I'm not like a transhumanist or stuff like that, but advancements in chemestry and nutritional science have a place in the diet of modern human beings. The invention of powdered milk alone has saved countless human lives.
For the context of the conversation, you need no supplements if you're eating a vegetarian diet (I don't know why you keep talking about "v*gans"), B12 is present in dairy and eggs (I get all the B12 i need from my morning yogurt). Creatine is indeed lacking in any diet that excludes meats, however you've failed to produce any evidence that says you need exogenous creatine (the literature points to the fact that for some people might not produce enough endogenous creatine).

You literally worship science. It's a religion to you, not a scientific one, and since The Great Science tells you plant based is Correct

I don't, I'm not even privy to the inner workings of science as an engineer (yuck!). But what tells you that a plant-based diet is correct is that our dentures are shaped to eat fruits,nuts and roots (just like our cousin, the chimpazee does). Humans today are indeed omnivores, but we lack the canines of true omnivores, and our digestive tract is shorter and rich of amylase, which points to the fact that we are primarily starch eaters, it is not belief as much as it is simple statement of fact. You might want to characterize it as faith to dismiss it, but the biological reality of the human body says something else.

And the fact that you veg*ns are so culty and defensive of your awful, awful food is proof you have to evangelize instead of showing its health by example.

First of all, no one who's currently arguing in this thread claims to be vegan, for one I am a vegetarian (although I'll occasionally eat fish at restaurants), and if anything what I've seen in current years is the exact opposite trend, ergo the rise in carnivore/keto influencers especially in anglophone circles. The only reason why people dislike vegans is because they are more willing to describe reality like it really is. Considering that 60% of the world's mammals are domesticated animals for meat production it's not hyperbole to say that not only you're sinking your teeth in the corpse of another living being, but at wide that type of consumption is also putting strain on the environment that we have to pass on to our children, in the words of Nikola Tesla (greatest serbian engineer) :

"I consider vegetarianism as a recommended starting point for giving up on established barbaric habits. Many peoples living almost exclusively vegetarian show greater strength and fitness. Some seedlings, such as oats, are more cost-effective than meat and better for mental and physical health. Every effort should be made to stop the vicious and cruel slaughter of animals, which can be devastating to human morale. To get rid of animal instincts and appetites, which set us back ... we need to make a complete change in diet. All other thinking about food is unnecessary."

If you think that I personally became vegetarian because le science told me so, I have quite a few anecdotal reasons that pushed me to make the switch

1.From my mothers side , my grandpa lived 91 working as a farmer for 65 of those, and his diet consisted mostly of what the land gave him : tomatoes, cruciferous vegetables, whole grain pasta / bread and eggs.
2.My grandma is 97 and will probably make it to 100 and her diet was mostly what she cooked to her husband, I have a cookbook from her and 90% of those recipes are vegetarian (the 10% is mostly holiday type recipes), a lot of the vegetables included are foraged in my region , such as Carduus and Cichorium intybus.
3. I grew up around animal slaughter and found discomfort in eating the corpses of farm animals that I helped raise.
4. I feel better on a vegetarian diet.

Ultimately while it might be diplomatic to say that one should just kinda wing it and chose the diet they feel, one cannot compare a vegetarian diet to a paleo or a carnivore diet (I suspend my judgement on the keto diet because it seems to help diabetics).

 

[punisheddead]

The Hitler thing was kind of a bit.

Worrying that obvious joke was not recognized as obvious joke.

carnivore diet (I suspend my judgement on the keto diet because it seems to help diabetics).

To be completely fair on the carnivore diet there are plenty anecdotal testimonies of the diet helping with some really bad autoimmune or inflammation issues. But that's more on it being a very heavy elimination diet probably more so then being "the best" diet.