Self Help is a scam (even if well intended)

FalseReality

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Reading comments on the second page of the thread about life on easy mode has pushed me to make this thread but I've thinking about this for a while.

In December I had a night where I stayed up late, and then couldn't sleep and thoughts of wanting to read philosophy came up. I'm on a leave of absence (year out) from my teacher training course and I wasn't sure if my student ID would still work but I had the idea to go to the library and get some books out. It was one of those thoughts that come to be motivated when you believe you can't be, I was trying to go to sleep so of course I can't. But after enough time of not being able to sleep I decided to go for it and headed out to the library with a list, if I recall correctly I'd started previously to that night.

I'd read a few books at that point but it was far and few. Right now I'm reading near enough everyday. After that night I started by reading Women by Charles Bukowski (not quite philosophy haha) but the next two books were the Epictetus' Discourses. He's a stoic philosopher and I found I agreed with more or less everything he thought, many ideas I'd thought of or agreed with before. My main disagreements were on certain views of the world and some of his reasonings for why to act a way I agreed with. The book had discussions with his students, which I noticed he was especially harsh on for asking to think before answering a question of how to act in a certain situation. I agreed with the answer Epictetus gave but it reminded me of when I did self-help videos on YouTube, around this time last year.

An acid trip at the end of January made me feel like I knew how to solve a lot of my problems and make myself happier and so I wanted to share this with others, giving my methods, tactics and thought-processes I used. I have no idea if I helped people (and even someone saying I did doesn't prove much, people call celebrities influential all the time and all that changed for the person really is they got addicted to something that made them feel better about themselves for a bit) but I kept going. This essentially went until another acid trip in May where a thought-loop about how there are memes for everything, wondering how Netflix can expose problems about everything being bad but also being very addictive and then coming to the realisation (which really I already knew) that everything is addictive. I can make videos telling people how best to live their lives, and (assuming they like the videos) instead they'll binge my videos and start talking about how their changing their lives. You probably all know some annoying self-help guy who gives life advice all around but has clearly not done anything for themselves let alone even make a start on something new. This put me off making self-help videos, abandoning a video I was in the middle of editing and soon after I ran out of ideas. I think this was due to other factors too, but soon after things got to me and I got depressive again, now feeling worse than to start as I knew how to be better but was acting oppositely.

I've also thought about a time with Josh Fluke, a YouTuber who quit his software job after his YouTube was going well and criticises corporate, was accused of taking advantage of people disgruntled with their lives. I see him as a genuine guy, but in a way it's true. I believe he wants to do the right thing, but most likely his fans are people looking out for evidence to support their complaints of life, rather than people making a change in their lives. It's not his fault, but that's the audience it would attract. I've wanted to do it too, I have a lot of good criticisms but haven't motivated myself enough to get round to it. After more reflection, I've realised it isn't what I really want to do, it's just something that seems like I could do well and not have to work a worse job doing.

Going back to Epictetus, I didn't finish the end of the second book (the edition I had was two books in each so I didn't finish the forth technically) because I felt like I got the point. Some point for different situations. I decided I'd rather read fiction. I more or less know how to live my life best, I've been looking for a reason to do so. That's the main reason I've been into philosophy about how to live life recently. After some reading I thought that maybe instead of looking for rational reasons, I'd think about the motivations and reasonings of these flawed characters. What causes someone to act well or not, to want one thing over another. I've also found that the different backgrounds and fictional people have put my mind in different places, giving me new ideas instead of endlessly thinking about how to solve my life.

So a few things I've thought about:
  • the issue of being smart (and trying to solve life) is the fixation on logic and theorising before doing something. Logic is easy to be rigid and flawed, and it's experience that aids logical understanding
  • seeking out help removes our own responsibility, hoping someone will have the answer for us and thus we don't think for ourselves
  • most answers come when I don't intend to, sometimes a random thought will link ideas from the past to a new conclusion
  • you're not looking to solve your life, you're looking to be bothered to solve your life
  • most people who think, and seeing what people talk about here that's probably you, could be great at self help ideas, all you'd need is to be paid to do it and you'd suddenly be an expert because the worry of security is gone
  • trying to be happy is admitting to not being happy, which is not a motivational idea
  • if sometimes you feel good and sometimes you feel bad, what's the big deal with feeling bad? You know it'll go eventually, and focusing on it (by trying to escape it) does the opposite effect
  • I believe mental health problems would be significantly lower if people spent even 30 seconds staring at a wall when they felt bad before trying to figure out how to end or escape the pain (this is literally meditation, it's really not as big a deal as people make it out to be)
  • your mind gives you loads of ideas of things to do, some unrealistic, some realistic, some for reasons like hope of money, sex or power. Doesn't matter really, gotta try something to get out of the trap
  • most methods of self help put achieving more amounts (as quantity and time) of dopamine and serotonin as the goal. You can be motivated with a messy room, sometimes fighting your situation is the motivation to create and make change



funny.jpg



So yeah anyway that's my thread I felt like saying. If my thoughts made you think of stuff say or say other thoughts that may be relevant. I like conversations.
 
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FalseReality

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You need more bible in your life bro.


The manosphere won't save anyone... most of it is free mason propaganda...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KBWNRrMbhw

I agree mostly with what you've said but I don't think it has to be Jesus to have morals, values and to think for yourself. It's still an idea you stick to and refuse to allow contradictions. But sure, it's better than being meaningless and miserable. Almost everyone believes in dogma even if it isn't religion, and religion tends to make people happier
 
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nagolbud

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I agree mostly with what you've said but I don't think it has to be Jesus to have morals, values and to think for yourself. It's still an idea you stick to and refuse to allow contradictions. But sure, it's better than being meaningless and miserable. Almost everyone believes in dogma even if it isn't religion, and religion tends to make people happier

The Bible isn't why I have morals or values. I learned to think for myself and rebel at a very early age.... when I realized He was the one teaching me the entire time and the lessons he was teaching me were stories right from the Bible it starts to become clear. What most people don't realize is that Jesus Christ hated religion, and many people have a false idea of who Jesus Christ is, because I wasn't a good person in any way, and He still paid the price for me. He paid my entire debt... so that I could have salvation. God literally came to earth, preserved His word in the Bible, and lived here in the flesh. When you really dissect history and the bible you realize the entire world we are taught is a lie. That the only way out is through faith alone in Jesus Christ. I was lad like you years ago... and the question that changed my life was to Him... "why would I even want to go to heaven with a bunch of fake religions people... wouldn't it be better to be in hell?"

and one night alone without God, he left me for them. My Beretta PXstorm was on my self. I'll leave you with that and next time you have doubt, maybe you'll ask a similar question to heighten your clout.
 

FalseReality

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The Bible isn't why I have morals or values. I learned to think for myself and rebel at a very early age.... when I realized He was the one teaching me the entire time and the lessons he was teaching me were stories right from the Bible it starts to become clear. What most people don't realize is that Jesus Christ hated religion, and many people have a false idea of who Jesus Christ is, because I wasn't a good person in any way, and He still paid the price for me. He paid my entire debt... so that I could have salvation. God literally came to earth, preserved His word in the Bible, and lived here in the flesh. When you really dissect history and the bible you realize the entire world we are taught is a lie. That the only way out is through faith alone in Jesus Christ. I was lad like you years ago... and the question that changed my life was to Him... "why would I even want to go to heaven with a bunch of fake religions people... wouldn't it be better to be in hell?"

and one night alone without God, he left me for them. My Beretta PXstorm was on my self. I'll leave you with that and next time you have doubt, maybe you'll ask a similar question to heighten your clout.
Okay but I'm already aware that most religious people don't follow the rules properly so fail because of that. For as long as Christianity has existed people have taken advantage of the words for their own gain. I've been told the Bible mentions this and says that it's not terrible because at least some of the word is being passed down.

Who knows? Maybe one day I'll see, you could be right. But even in the way you give bold statements and make assumptions about me, it makes it hard for me to be so sure of your side. I've known that the entire world I've been taught is a lie, it's a lie that has been passed down and altered through generations likely because for most, it's easier to deal with. Don't question the whole path, just do it. Have kids, get married, work job, have grandkids, never question authority etc etc. When it comes to truth, I'd rather just say I don't know and see what theories come to me over time.
 
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nagolbud

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Okay but I'm already aware that most religious people don't follow the rules properly so fail because of that. For as long as Christianity has existed people have taken advantage of the words for their own gain. I've been told the Bible mentions this and says that it's not terrible because at least some of the word is being passed down.

Who knows? Maybe one day I'll see, you could be right. But even in the way you give bold statements and make assumptions about me, it makes it hard for me to be so sure of your side. I've known that the entire world I've been taught is a lie, it's a lie that has been passed down and altered through generations likely because for most, it's easier to deal with. Don't question the whole path, just do it. Have kids, get married, work job, have grandkids, never question authority etc etc. When it comes to truth, I'd rather just say I don't know and see what theories come to me over time.

Yeah but most religious people trust their good deeds, being a good person, ect. to get into heaven. Christianity was brilliantly planned to create a false version of Jesus Christ. The Vatican has done nothing but burn bibles and believers throughout history. Have you ever heard of the Jesuits?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_lzXfzIHyY
 

FalseReality

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Yeah but most religious people trust their good deeds, being a good person, ect. to get into heaven. Christianity was brilliantly planned to create a false version of Jesus Christ. The Vatican has done nothing but burn bibles and believers throughout history. Have you ever heard of the Jesuits?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_lzXfzIHyY

I've read the first chapter of Carl Jung's book: "Dreams, memories, reflections" and he mentioned being afraid of them as a child but that's all I know really. The reason was more irrational too.

Could you maybe give me a summary or something shorter I'm not promising I'll watch an hour documentary.
 
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nagolbud

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I've read the first chapter of Carl Jung's book: "Dreams, memories, reflections" and he mentioned being afraid of them as a child but that's all I know really. The reason was more irrational too.

Could you maybe give me a summary or something shorter I'm not promising I'll watch an hour documentary.

It's worth your time unless your a beta boomer.
 

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I agree mostly with what you've said but I don't think it has to be Jesus to have morals, values and to think for yourself. It's still an idea you stick to and refuse to allow contradictions. But sure, it's better than being meaningless and miserable. Almost everyone believes in dogma even if it isn't religion, and religion tends to make people happier
Contradictions are inherent to this self-sustaining universe, it's built off a contradiction-- nothings rolled together infinite times into somethings rolled together infinite times to create everything-- maybe this'll make sense if you've done acid lol.

As revealed by blessed St. Gulik the Roach, all statements are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless, in some sense.

"If organized religion is the opiate of the masses, then disorganized religion is the marijuana of the lunatic fringe."
- Ho Chi Zen aka Lord Omar Ravenhurst KSC aka Kerry Thornley
 
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gathermore

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So a few things I've thought about:
  • the issue of being smart (and trying to solve life) is the fixation on logic and theorising before doing something. Logic is easy to be rigid and flawed, and it's experience that aids logical understanding
  • seeking out help removes our own responsibility, hoping someone will have the answer for us and thus we don't think for ourselves
  • most answers come when I don't intend to, sometimes a random thought will link ideas from the past to a new conclusion
  • you're not looking to solve your life, you're looking to be bothered to solve your life
  • most people who think, and seeing what people talk about here that's probably you, could be great at self help ideas, all you'd need is to be paid to do it and you'd suddenly be an expert because the worry of security is gone
  • trying to be happy is admitting to not being happy, which is not a motivational idea
  • if sometimes you feel good and sometimes you feel bad, what's the big deal with feeling bad? You know it'll go eventually, and focusing on it (by trying to escape it) does the opposite effect
  • I believe mental health problems would be significantly lower if people spent even 30 seconds staring at a wall when they felt bad before trying to figure out how to end or escape the pain (this is literally meditation, it's really not as big a deal as people make it out to be)
  • your mind gives you loads of ideas of things to do, some unrealistic, some realistic, some for reasons like hope of money, sex or power. Doesn't matter really, gotta try something to get out of the trap
  • most methods of self help put achieving more amounts (as quantity and time) of dopamine and serotonin as the goal. You can be motivated with a messy room, sometimes fighting your situation is the motivation to create and make change
I had a lot of these same thoughts following my ego death experience taking acid. Its comforting knowing others see the same type of things.

For me a Computationalist world view has helped me reconcile these different experiences into "filing folders"


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3K5UxWRRuY&list=PLSiiU6GT5xuAi7QaPVmhnKLn2d_1rAse2&index=5
 
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FalseReality

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Contradictions are inherent to this self-sustaining universe, it's built off a contradiction-- nothings rolled together infinite times into somethings rolled together infinite times to create everything-- maybe this'll make sense if you've done acid lol.

As revealed by blessed St. Gulik the Roach, all statements are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless, in some sense.

"If organized religion is the opiate of the masses, then disorganized religion is the marijuana of the lunatic fringe."
- Ho Chi Zen aka Lord Omar Ravenhurst KSC aka Kerry Thornley
Yeah I did say I did acid haha. I feel like some of these realisations came when sober. Acid has had me being too sure of things. It's more when I think about the complication of things that don't make sense. The sobering despair that never hits as hard when on something, only to realise the despair didn't prove it was any more significant.

I had a lot of these same thoughts following my ego death experience taking acid. Its comforting knowing others see the same type of things.

For me a Computationalist world view has helped me reconcile these different experiences into "filing folders"


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3K5UxWRRuY&list=PLSiiU6GT5xuAi7QaPVmhnKLn2d_1rAse2&index=5


I feel that, when I first came with these thoughts I felt like I was the only one. The mind seems like to finding ways to feel different.
I'm not a big fan of that, well to an extent. Build up ideas and links but be ready for them to crumble on some new evidence, only to build up something new.
 
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gathermore

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Build up ideas and links but be ready for them to crumble on some new evidence, only to build up something new.
ye, thats one of the central "ideas" of the vid

the mind is a function approximator
information = discernable difference
the "meaning" of information is its relationship to change in other information

just watch the vid if you have the time, on like 0.75 speed
 
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Lukeas1111

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Bro, sometimes you guys think too much, life happens, you don't need to fight against it. Like @FalseReality was saying before, logic is rigid and flawed at times. Sometimes trying to solve certain problems is like trying to empty the sea with a bucket. Ik this is cliche but just go with the flow and don't fight against it.
 
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Bro, sometimes you guys think too much, life happens, you don't need to fight against it. Like @FalseReality was saying before, logic is rigid and flawed at times. Sometimes trying to solve certain problems is like trying to empty the sea with a bucket. Ik this is cliche but just go with the flow and don't fight against it.
This. Be cool like water.
 
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Reading comments on the second page of the thread about life on easy mode has pushed me to make this thread but I've thinking about this for a while.

In December I had a night where I stayed up late, and then couldn't sleep and thoughts of wanting to read philosophy came up. I'm on a leave of absence (year out) from my teacher training course and I wasn't sure if my student ID would still work but I had the idea to go to the library and get some books out. It was one of those thoughts that come to be motivated when you believe you can't be, I was trying to go to sleep so of course I can't. But after enough time of not being able to sleep I decided to go for it and headed out to the library with a list, if I recall correctly I'd started previously to that night.

I'd read a few books at that point but it was far and few. Right now I'm reading near enough everyday. After that night I started by reading Women by Charles Bukowski (not quite philosophy haha) but the next two books were the Epictetus' Discourses. He's a stoic philosopher and I found I agreed with more or less everything he thought, many ideas I'd thought of or agreed with before. My main disagreements were on certain views of the world and some of his reasonings for why to act a way I agreed with. The book had discussions with his students, which I noticed he was especially harsh on for asking to think before answering a question of how to act in a certain situation. I agreed with the answer Epictetus gave but it reminded me of when I did self-help videos on YouTube, around this time last year.

An acid trip at the end of January made me feel like I knew how to solve a lot of my problems and make myself happier and so I wanted to share this with others, giving my methods, tactics and thought-processes I used. I have no idea if I helped people (and even someone saying I did doesn't prove much, people call celebrities influential all the time and all that changed for the person really is they got addicted to something that made them feel better about themselves for a bit) but I kept going. This essentially went until another acid trip in May where a thought-loop about how there are memes for everything, wondering how Netflix can expose problems about everything being bad but also being very addictive and then coming to the realisation (which really I already knew) that everything is addictive. I can make videos telling people how best to live their lives, and (assuming they like the videos) instead they'll binge my videos and start talking about how their changing their lives. You probably all know some annoying self-help guy who gives life advice all around but has clearly not done anything for themselves let alone even make a start on something new. This put me off making self-help videos, abandoning a video I was in the middle of editing and soon after I ran out of ideas. I think this was due to other factors too, but soon after things got to me and I got depressive again, now feeling worse than to start as I knew how to be better but was acting oppositely.

I've also thought about a time with Josh Fluke, a YouTuber who quit his software job after his YouTube was going well and criticises corporate, was accused of taking advantage of people disgruntled with their lives. I see him as a genuine guy, but in a way it's true. I believe he wants to do the right thing, but most likely his fans are people looking out for evidence to support their complaints of life, rather than people making a change in their lives. It's not his fault, but that's the audience it would attract. I've wanted to do it too, I have a lot of good criticisms but haven't motivated myself enough to get round to it. After more reflection, I've realised it isn't what I really want to do, it's just something that seems like I could do well and not have to work a worse job doing.

Going back to Epictetus, I didn't finish the end of the second book (the edition I had was two books in each so I didn't finish the forth technically) because I felt like I got the point. Some point for different situations. I decided I'd rather read fiction. I more or less know how to live my life best, I've been looking for a reason to do so. That's the main reason I've been into philosophy about how to live life recently. After some reading I thought that maybe instead of looking for rational reasons, I'd think about the motivations and reasonings of these flawed characters. What causes someone to act well or not, to want one thing over another. I've also found that the different backgrounds and fictional people have put my mind in different places, giving me new ideas instead of endlessly thinking about how to solve my life.

So a few things I've thought about:
  • the issue of being smart (and trying to solve life) is the fixation on logic and theorising before doing something. Logic is easy to be rigid and flawed, and it's experience that aids logical understanding
  • seeking out help removes our own responsibility, hoping someone will have the answer for us and thus we don't think for ourselves
  • most answers come when I don't intend to, sometimes a random thought will link ideas from the past to a new conclusion
  • you're not looking to solve your life, you're looking to be bothered to solve your life
  • most people who think, and seeing what people talk about here that's probably you, could be great at self help ideas, all you'd need is to be paid to do it and you'd suddenly be an expert because the worry of security is gone
  • trying to be happy is admitting to not being happy, which is not a motivational idea
  • if sometimes you feel good and sometimes you feel bad, what's the big deal with feeling bad? You know it'll go eventually, and focusing on it (by trying to escape it) does the opposite effect
  • I believe mental health problems would be significantly lower if people spent even 30 seconds staring at a wall when they felt bad before trying to figure out how to end or escape the pain (this is literally meditation, it's really not as big a deal as people make it out to be)
  • your mind gives you loads of ideas of things to do, some unrealistic, some realistic, some for reasons like hope of money, sex or power. Doesn't matter really, gotta try something to get out of the trap
  • most methods of self help put achieving more amounts (as quantity and time) of dopamine and serotonin as the goal. You can be motivated with a messy room, sometimes fighting your situation is the motivation to create and make change



View attachment 17730


So yeah anyway that's my thread I felt like saying. If my thoughts made you think of stuff say or say other thoughts that may be relevant. I like conversations.

Interesting take, but I think self-help can still be useful if you know what you're looking for. A lot of it's bogus, but if you have a concrete goal, like wanting to get fit or improve your social skills, self-help books are more like different strategies you can try. There's nothing wrong with removing the responsibility if you're only trying to reinvent an idea that plenty of other people have dedicated their lives to solving.

As for credibility, there are lots of psychologists who summarize their peer-reviewed research in an easy-to-digest form. And even if they're not backed by the scienceTM, works like How To Make Friends and Influence People have been lauded for nearly a millennium as an excellent book for just talking well. Sure, they won't work for everyone - we all think and learn differently - but a few well placed words are all it takes to redefine how you viewed the problem, and how you can tackle it differently.

I agree that I've never seen any good results from the "change your life, bro!" If you don't know what you're trying to fix, an internet-daddy will make that call for you.
 
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FalseReality

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being a smarty is a psyop you play on yourself
accept the stupidity of life and revel in it sometimes.

not everyone/thing is a plant. just some things.
I like how you say that. Isn't it interesting how stupid and close minded you can get by thinking you're smart? I guess that's a lot of redpilled people. Figured out smothering most others didn't and then get fixated on certain ideas they now refuse to take contradiction on.
Interesting take, but I think self-help can still be useful if you know what you're looking for. A lot of it's bogus, but if you have a concrete goal, like wanting to get fit or improve your social skills, self-help books are more like different strategies you can try. There's nothing wrong with removing the responsibility if you're only trying to reinvent an idea that plenty of other people have dedicated their lives to solving.

As for credibility, there are lots of psychologists who summarize their peer-reviewed research in an easy-to-digest form. And even if they're not backed by the scienceTM, works like How To Make Friends and Influence People have been lauded for nearly a millennium as an excellent book for just talking well. Sure, they won't work for everyone - we all think and learn differently - but a few well placed words are all it takes to redefine how you viewed the problem, and how you can tackle it differently.

I agree that I've never seen any good results from the "change your life, bro!" If you don't know what you're trying to fix, an internet-daddy will make that call for you.
With self help the people watching can assume it'sbeing a smarty is a psyop you play on yourselfger issue is that with self help the people watching can assume it's what they need to do or should be doing or feel bad because they don't seem to manage it. I feel self help could make more effort to express it's just advise and they don't work for everyone. I feel some of it comes from if it works for the creator of the content they assume it works for everyone else. Not really sure if self help content tends to give this awareness but I haven't recognised it
 
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