Should we have a minimum wage at all?

[bnuungus]

agree, but there is also kind of a problem of undervaluing the kind of work that nobody wants to do, but actually needs done if you want a nice place to live. like, i don't think cleaners and the like should be paid dirt wages like that, you would definitely miss them if they all disappeared.

well we clearly value hardness of training over necessity of job when it comes to your wages. I'm not as physically important to my company as an electrical designer than the guy who physically builds the products but I get paid more. If a job is easier to train someone to do then they get paid less even though many times, those lower end jobs are more important for overall function of an institution than the jobs that get paid higher. I wonder if there's a way to change some things for the better in this regard.

 

[zalaz alaza]

i believe that when you are born you should be given a billion dollars and that is all the money you have for your whole life. just one billion

 

[bnuungus]

i believe that when you are born you should be given a billion dollars and that is all the money you have for your whole life. just one billion

finally, someone who understands it

 

[maskedwallaby]

hot take: fuck the minimum wage, institute a maximum wage/maximum wealth (with no loopholes for "haha woopsie! i take $1 salary and get lavished in other ways). there'd be more money going around to pay people enough for a decent life if it wasn't all going into the pockets of a few thousand leeches. the maximum wage could still be a high enough number to motivate people to do shit in the economy (i.e. the max wage should be enough to live a better-than-excellent life), some of these leeches have so much money it is functionally inconceivable for our dumb apebrains to wrap around.

As long as they release updates that increase the max level wage each year. I'm looking forward to Wrath of the Marxist Comrade myself

 

[maskedwallaby]

I will say that a federal minimum wage is very imprecise. I think a system at the state level, like New York's, is the best way forward. The NY system is responsive to geographies and how much companies of different sizes are able to withstand. For instance, a small company is required to pay a lesser wage than larger companies.

/thread right there. Any federal law that mandates something the US States would already have a law for is just (or should be) the last straw for "don't fuck up this bad."

Do people deserve a living wage? So long as our accepted form of society is Capitalism, then "yes." Otherwise you will eventually run into revolt and revolution—ask any frenchman in the 1800s or Russian in the early 1900s...it's not a pretty sight. (I talk to them regularly)

I want to argue with @RisingThumb but I'm not sober or smart enough to do so, other than to say that I demand an example of when "trickle down economics" ever had a positive impact

 

[RisingThumb]

I want to argue with @RisingThumb but I'm not sober or smart enough to do so, other than to say that I demand an example of when "trickle down economics" ever had a positive impact

Trickle down economics never worked, but that's not my argument. My argument is that government policies like minimum wage and excessive legal policies around the farming industry and others, make some industries have extremely high overhead costs that small businesses get strangled out of them as they can't offer higher than minimum wage jobs while following all legal policies and procedures. I'm not against government policies around economics. In fact, they can actually be very good! I know a lot of people dislike the Nazis, but given their economic shambles at the time, their policies were a hell of a lot better than the Weimar Republic joke. As an example of this, look at Winterhilfswerk. I don't see anything matched by western countries(probably because of the demonisation of Nazis, and consequent demonisation of any economic policies. I would not be surprised if certain minorities benefited from this ).

I am against bad government policies around economics that hurt the industry, support duopolies and strangle the lower class into minimum wage without a hope of running their own business (If you compare it to 3rd world countries, a lot of of people have their own little shops and "lemonade stands")

But if you're at the top of the triple down economics pyramid scheme... got a few bucks to share?

 

[pronoundisrespecter]

Yes, all adults should earn a minimum wage that is relative to the cost of living in their jurisdiction. People with children should earn slightly more to allow breathing room to support their family and allow mothers to take care of their children in their formative years.

 

[RisingThumb]

Yes, all adults should earn a minimum wage that is relative to the cost of living in their jurisdiction. People with children should earn slightly more to allow breathing room to support their family and allow mothers to take care of their children in their formative years.

Should earn- A demand put on them that they should, and that they do something worthy of earning

 

[llillilll]

Trickle down economics never worked, but that's not my argument. My argument is that government policies like minimum wage and excessive legal policies around the farming industry and others, make some industries have extremely high overhead costs that small businesses get strangled out of them as they can't offer higher than minimum wage jobs while following all legal policies and procedures. I'm not against government policies around economics. In fact, they can actually be very good! I know a lot of people dislike the Nazis, but given their economic shambles at the time, their policies were a hell of a lot better than the Weimar Republic joke. As an example of this, look at Winterhilfswerk. I don't see anything matched by western countries(probably because of the demonisation of Nazis, and consequent demonisation of any economic policies. I would not be surprised if certain minorities benefited from this ).

I am against bad government policies around economics that hurt the industry, support duopolies and strangle the lower class into minimum wage without a hope of running their own business (If you compare it to 3rd world countries, a lot of of people have their own little shops and "lemonade stands")
View attachment 75382
But if you're at the top of the triple down economics pyramid scheme... got a few bucks to share?

Minimum wage is more of a safety vent for when the monopolies are formed. Considering it is inevitable there to be no monopolies in capitalism i believe we need a minimum wage. If a corporation wants to destroy smaller competition they can fund regulations that scale far better than minimum wage after all.

 

[llillilll]

Should earn- A demand put on them that they should, and that they do something worthy of earning

Everyone should get paid 10K monthly for being worlds specialest princess

 

[Some_porcupine]

Depends qhere the Money comes from.
If that is from some robot tax whwre people are paid as waY of lay-off from robots taking away jobs, Linda fine.
Unless IT is gay homoglobo UBI where Harari Ánd His kinds want to tender people uséless (eaters) and pbsolete, basicaĺly BNW XaaS pod happy orgy druggy hippies...

 

[llillilll]

Depends qhere the Money comes from.
If that is from some robot tax whwre people are paid as waY of lay-off from robots taking away jobs, Linda fine.
Unless IT is gay homoglobo UBI where Harari Ánd His kinds want to tender people uséless (eaters) and pbsolete, basicaĺly BNW XaaS pod happy orgy druggy hippies...

Are you drunk, man

 

[Captain]

Ok mister real life expert, go start a business where you employ people that don't know your language, lived in shitty economic situations and have less fear of authority. Make another post when they inevitably create a localised race war inside the factory because they refuse to interact with locals.

HAHAHAHA. That comment is so detached from reality. This is literally every fast food, cleaning,and landscaping company in the North East US. Nobody is going to start a race war because they are happy to have an opportunity to be working. The racial tension comes from never getting orders correct or being able to understand anyone over the drive thru PA. When I go out to middle of nowhere USA where immigration isn't happening....the experience is much better.

Immigration absolutely keeps wages low because even poor unemployed Americans are too fucking lazy to work. The wage is almost irrelevant...$5/hr or $70/hr = the same laziness. Nobody wants to work anything remotely hard so when immigrants show up they will take all the low wage shit jobs. If McDonalds has a steady stream of immigrants with a rudimentary understanding of English that will work for $5 and be happy...why bother paying more. Everyone is happy even though they shouldn't be. Every job in the US used to be a livable wage, until rampant immigration, the creation of bullshit corporate jobs, large mega corporations, and the globalization of production.

 

[llillilll]

HAHAHAHA. That comment is so detached from reality. This is literally every fast food, cleaning,and landscaping company in the North East US. Nobody is going to start a race war because they are happy to have an opportunity to be working. The racial tension comes from never getting orders correct or being able to understand anyone over the drive thru PA. When I go out to middle of nowhere USA where immigration isn't happening....the experience is much better.

Immigration absolutely keeps wages low because even poor unemployed Americans are too fucking lazy to work. The wage is almost irrelevant...$5/hr or $70/hr = the same laziness. Nobody wants to work anything remotely hard so when immigrants show up they will take all the low wage shit jobs. If McDonalds has a steady stream of immigrants with a rudimentary understanding of English that will work for $5 and be happy...why bother paying more. Everyone is happy even though they shouldn't be. Every job in the US used to be a livable wage, until rampant immigration, the creation of bullshit corporate jobs, large mega corporations, and the globalization of production.

"i am a life expert and this is my explanation about how there is only one country in the entire world and how issues never get worse over time"

 

[【Ｏｂｓｉｄｉａｎ Ｐｉｌｇｒｉｍ】パラダイス・]

Well, for me discussions like that are a bit pointless. All depends on on the natural resources and the economic model of the region in question, and If we will try to solve that worldwide... it just wont work

 

[Captain]

"i am a life expert and this is my explanation about how there is only one country in the entire world and how issues never get worse over time"

"I'm also a life expert basing my explanation on a world where only one small ass country exists that nobody lives in and isn't a major world player". When people stop leaving your country for the jobs in mine....ill take you a little more seriously.

 

[llillilll]

"I'm also a life expert basing my explanation on a world where only one small ass country exists that nobody lives in and isn't a major world player". When people stop leaving your country for the jobs in mine....ill take you a little more seriously.

The example of immigration becoming a big issue is visible in Germany and France and it will get worse over time.
Also you aren't the CEO of your country, don't know who told you you are.

 

[Some_porcupine]

Are you drunk, man

no, just typing on tiny phone
also, was too lazy to correct typos
what "says" i am? (i am not; just mind going on 125% capacity)

 

[Captain]

The example of immigration becoming a big issue is visible in Germany and France and it will get worse over time.
Also you aren't the CEO of your country, don't know who told you you are.

You need to work on arguing points. You don't want to make statements that can just be reflected back. Try less generic rage statements and more thought out points to convince the other person. That's a top tip form the CEO of America.

 

[llillilll]

You need to work on arguing points. You don't want to make statements that can just be reflected back. Try less generic rage statements and more thought out points to convince the other person. That's a top tip form the CEO of America.

You want me to prove Germany and France are having issues related to high immigration, you aren't the CEO of a country with thriving economy and America isn't the only country that has a economy.
I just won't