Stoicism.

H1ssss

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I think that the modern world could benefit greatly from stoicism. People are over emotional and have no critical thinking skills. If people can be taught to think objectively about a situation under any circumstances the world would be better.
 
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Chinese schools teaches about that in fact, also the idea of community and solidarity between their collective and nation, being over emotional, consumerist and hedonistic it's something we always had in this cringy side of the map best known as "the west", what we need is to implement a merithocracy like most of the countries in eastern asia, or at least try something new and implement a Technocracy (a militaristic one) to teach society the values of knowledge and their own value, or not, who cares about opinions to be honest, is not like our plutocrats overlords care about it lol.
 
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cybercola

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Critical thinking (especially aimed at the state of society) tends to get a lot of pushback as of late, which probably shows it's something that the world really could benefit from. I wouldn't want to teach people to ignore emotions forever though. emotions can be fun, constant objective thinking tends to lose you friends.
 
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Epictetus is worth reading, but the successwin rise and grind diet stoicism of the past decade is incredibly dumb. Also Marcus Aurelius is basically the Roman equivalent of one of those "How to Stop Giving a F*ck And Be a Bad*ss" self-help books so skip him imo
 
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I think that the modern world could benefit greatly from stoicism. People are over emotional and have no critical thinking skills. If people can be taught to think objectively about a situation under any circumstances the world would be better.
For the most part the modern world would benefit, but my main criticism of Stoicism is it's a philosophy of not fretting about what you cannot control. The problem with that, is it breeds a sort of victim complex where people won't care because they can't control something they quite clearly can exert influence over.

Also your opinion on people thinking objectively about a situation under all circumstances leading to the world being better steers somewhat close to the ideals of objectivism and egoism where you look out for yourself and put the self as the high moral ideal(butchering the differences and the whole ideas of them). Not everything can be viewed objectively, the systems of society for example is something incredibly difficult to view at objectively as different systems work best for different people.
but the successwin rise and grind diet stoicism of the past decade is incredibly dumb.
Completely agree. Stoicism seems to be used by those who adopt the "sigmal male grindset" quite a bit. I have wondered why this is related.
 
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Cugel

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Completely agree. Stoicism seems to be used by those who adopt the "sigmal male grindset" quite a bit. I have wondered why this is related.

I'm curious about this, too. It definitely existed to some extent in popular media before-- Tom Wolfe's novel A Man in Full from the late 90s featured it heavily and was my first exposure to it when I read it as a teenager, but it at least made some sense as applied to the protagonists, two men whose lives were unravelling publicly and who were struggling to cope with humiliation.
 
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Epicureanism is much healthier IMO. Stoicism always seems to quickly decay into some ridiculous "sigma grindset", like an unstable element spitting off radiation until it can hold its atomic structure together.
 
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Epictetus is worth reading, but the successwin rise and grind diet stoicism of the past decade is incredibly dumb. Also Marcus Aurelius is basically the Roman equivalent of one of those "How to Stop Giving a F*ck And Be a Bad*ss" self-help books so skip him imo
Yes we need a return to form, but I don't agree Marcus Aurelius is not worth reading. The ideas expressed in his works are more complex and nuanced then "How to Stop Giving a F*ck And Be a Bad*ss".
 
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H1ssss

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Chinese schools teaches about that in fact, also the idea of community and solidarity between their collective and nation, being over emotional, consumerist and hedonistic it's something we always had in this cringy side of the map best known as "the west", what we need is to implement a merithocracy like most of the countries in eastern asia, or at least try something new and implement a Technocracy (a militaristic one) to teach society the values of knowledge and their own value, or not, who cares about opinions to be honest, is not like our plutocrats overlords care about it lol.
I do not agree with the political part of this comment, but I am curious about how it is taught how do they go about it? Is it normal stoicism or is it modified?
 
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Epicureanism is much healthier IMO. Stoicism always seems to quickly decay into some ridiculous "sigma grindset", like an unstable element spitting off radiation until it can hold its atomic structure together.
I think that we will gain little asking the question is Epicureanism is better. Instead I will say I believe Epicureanism is incredibly self serving and as an "ideology" it is pretty weak to help a person in every day life.
 
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For the most part the modern world would benefit, but my main criticism of Stoicism is it's a philosophy of not fretting about what you cannot control. The problem with that, is it breeds a sort of victim complex where people won't care because they can't control something they quite clearly can exert influence over.

Also your opinion on people thinking objectively about a situation under all circumstances leading to the world being better steers somewhat close to the ideals of objectivism and egoism where you look out for yourself and put the self as the high moral ideal(butchering the differences and the whole ideas of them). Not everything can be viewed objectively, the systems of society for example is something incredibly difficult to view at objectively as different systems work best for different people.

Completely agree. Stoicism seems to be used by those who adopt the "sigmal male grindset" quite a bit. I have wondered why this is related.
This is very interesting. I would like to politely correct you on your definition of Stoicism, its not about not worrying at all, its more about not letting your feelings take you over and showing little emotion. It doesn't mean to say you shouldn't feel the emotion at all just that you shouldn't be consumed by it. The victim complex is something that I have not heard people talk about before but I think it is very interesting. If you adopt Stoicism in the way you describe it a victim complex is possible but I do not think it would be something that would happen very commonly. People who are naturally weak of mind will never want to take responsibility for what they have done, and that can become a victim complex.

Also fyi I do not think all circumstances and situations call for objective thinking. But, I think most of them do, objective thinking will help clear your mind and help you understand your world and your self to a better degree.
 
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H1ssss

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Critical thinking (especially aimed at the state of society) tends to get a lot of pushback as of late, which probably shows it's something that the world really could benefit from. I wouldn't want to teach people to ignore emotions forever though. emotions can be fun, constant objective thinking tends to lose you friends.
Stoicism is not about ignoring emotions but instead about not letting them control you and putting on a strong face and getting through the tough times as they come.
 
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gamseok

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Strength in the face of adversity is an extremely valuable skill to have, but I am a little skeptical of it as the answer to everything, because it's by definition a cope. We sort of take for granted that the world is shit, but aside from COVID, the shittiness is all downstream in the cracks in the foundations of our institutions. Tough times are inevitable, and during those times it is good if we can take the beating and carry on, but when the "tough times" are so prolonged, I think it's much better to think of ways to remove ourselves from them (I take it for granted that fixing them is impossible at this point).

Genuinely curious as to what the Epicurean answer to this is.
 
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Strength in the face of adversity is an extremely valuable skill to have, but I am a little skeptical of it as the answer to everything, because it's by definition a cope. We sort of take for granted that the world is shit, but aside from COVID, the shittiness is all downstream in the cracks in the foundations of our institutions. Tough times are inevitable, and during those times it is good if we can take the beating and carry on, but when the "tough times" are so prolonged, I think it's much better to think of ways to remove ourselves from them (I take it for granted that fixing them is impossible at this point).

Genuinely curious as to what the Epicurean answer to this is.
I think that if people had spent less time wallowing and being depressed about the state of the world they would divert more energy and brainpower towards trying to solve the problems. Stoicism would be great for this. Also Epicureanism was created as a direct response to Platonism and then became the "enemy" of Stoicism. It seems Epicureanism followers and Stoicism followers have always disagreed, just thought I would put that out there.
 
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Jessica3cho雪血⊜青意

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I don't understand people. I get excited when I face hardship, because I know its an opportunity to improve myself and do something greater. I've always liked stoicism, because of its tempered approach to facing challenges. How can people be happy with giving up in the face of adversity? I don't understand why people don't want to grow and learn.
 
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