Stoicism

Mk_Ultra_Victim

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Hey all,

I've been getting more into philosophy and trying to find the right one for me. I believe I have found my home in stoicism so I just wanted to create a thread to discuss it. I have started reading meditations and I love it. It is one of the best books I have ever read and it has really deep insights that I am trying to put into use in my daily life. I was wondering If anyone had any tips on being stoic. Every website I go on wants me to buy a plan or subscribe to some newsletter in order to unlock the best secrets to practicing stoicism. Sorry If this seems confusing or just doesn't make sense but I don't exactly know where to look or what to ask really. I have already tried some stuff like taking cold showers and trying to react less and not have any outbursts. Do you guys like stoicism? How do you put it into use in your daily lives?
 

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Sable

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Stoicism is a philosophy which centers around the idea of choice. Stoics believe that man, while not having control over what fortune gives him, does possess control over how he uses what he is given. That those in dire circumstances are happy provided they approach their situation with bravery and that those who are miserable are such because they do not know how to use the gifts of fortune wisely.

A misconception is that Stoic philosophy preaches being devoid of emotion, I do not believe this to be true. Rather, the Stoics welcome emotions such as grief and joy as long as they are experienced and sustained naturally. To grieve at the loss of a friend is perfectly acceptable, but to assume an indulgence in grief beyond what is natural to such a point where it interferes with life is not.

In short I would say that the Stoic philosophy is all about life being what you make of it.

Some recommended authors:
Seneca, Epictetus, Chrysippus, Tacitus.
 
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toyotawave

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I try to remember that the practice of meditation doesn't end when you're done sitting for 30 mins. It's also helpful to recognize and feel out (physically) an emotion when they arise.
 
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Max Chill

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If by stoicism you mean Roman Stoicism, then Seneca is highly recommended. Roman Stoicism is personal compared to Hellenic Stoicism that had social and political implications. I've only recently just went back to revisit Roman Stoicism and I kid you not, in times where "the future is now, old man" but looks fucking bleak, it is a stern but very good sturdy guiding principle. It does not come overnight, and certainly won't be attained if you bombard yourself with theoretical knowledge. Stoicism tells to make do with what you have, and that would also mean to start with whatever you have; this philosophy is a very good counter with one of the least recognized but common illness to the soul of lost modern men: The Toolbox Fallacy (simply put, "I'll start when I've finally got all the tools I need.")

"The Great Political Theories"
by Michael Curtis gives a good gist of Roman Stoicism, the excerpts there were from Seneca's On Providence, On the Shortness of Life, On Traquility, Consolation of Helvia, and the Letters.

If you haven't watched Cowboy Bebop, the protagonist Spike Spiegel is one of the prime modern character examples widely attributed to Stoicism, and I'll give my take on that. (Ignore the analytic spoilers ahead if you haven't watched it. I certainly never want to ruin your experience if you haven't yet.)

Many people argue and others somehow agree that Spike Spiegel is "The Greatest Space Bounty Hunter" to ever exist in the face of anime, for both mere substantial surface traits they saw or with deep reflection of his character. It's no doubt that Spike is certainly well versed defending himself and piloting his craft, yet if we look at how Spike fares monetarily he's practically always broke; his Swordfish II, almost a rust bucket at this point, is just remodeled from a MONO Racer and retrofitted with weapons to be a space-ready fighter; he won the bet guessing the real name of the Heavy Metal Queen, yet he only took a single note from that fat stack of cash, only enough to pay for a drink; the entire crew arguably needs to replace their space-capable barge The Bebop, but then again their economic state forces them to make use of what they have; even the bell-peppers and beef, THE bell-peppers and beef that has no beef in it.

I described him mainly under the core values of Stoicism. I can go spout more analysis on him pertaining towards what Stoicism considers sacred (if you read it, assuming you've already watched it) but to cut short, the reason why Spike Spiegel is seen as such a great example stems from one of Seneca's quotes:

"I give you a rule of thumb to assess yourself and ascertain your perfection: You will come into possession [of your perfection] when you understand that the "successful" are least successful. Farewell..." [*finger gun* bang!]

Stoicism's limitations lies on being a principle on living life, so might I recommend a perfect partner for Roman Stoicism when starting to approach the territories of Existentialism: Absurdism, specifically that of Albert Camus in his "The Myth of Sisyphus"


These two recommended philosophies can be pragmatically shortened as follows:
Stoicism is practically "Life won't give you everything, make do with what you have." Absurdism is "Life can be kinda shit at times, but let's live life anyways."



Harakiri 5.PNG
 
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DonRamon131

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The main idea with stoicism is how you react to things. Life is full of hardships and while you do not have control over those things that happen to you (either good or bad), you do have control over your emotions and how to go about it.
Have you considered cynicism? Cynics get to masturbate in public and live in barrels. It's pretty sweet.
While that's what Diogenes exercised, it is not what Cynicism is about. Cynicism is about leaving wealth, power, fame, and any other carnal desire in order to live in one with nature. Diogenes behave like a literal dog. Diogenes was based.
 

s0ren

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Read books. It's what people did for thousands of years before we all lost the ability to pay attention to things for more than 30 seconds because of social media. After reading the Emperor, Seneca is usually the next step. Davie's anthology translation of his essays and dialogues is good, you can find it pretty easily and cheap. The one I have is published by Oxford World's Classics, you can find it pretty much anywhere.

Something not present in Meditations, in fact he blatantly rejects it as worth his time in a passage in Book 1, are the elements of stoicism not pertaining to ethics. These are its metaphysics, epistemology, logic an so forth. These are genuinely important to understanding the Stoic approach to life and something the New Age Stoicism finance bro craze of the philosophy has almost entirely ignored. Reading the greats will not only give you access to information which is neglected by people trying to make you into a consoooooomer but also cultivate the discipline necessary to live a stoic life.
 
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Caspar

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Hey all,

I've been getting more into philosophy and trying to find the right one for me. I believe I have found my home in stoicism so I just wanted to create a thread to discuss it. I have started reading meditations and I love it. It is one of the best books I have ever read and it has really deep insights that I am trying to put into use in my daily life. I was wondering If anyone had any tips on being stoic. Every website I go on wants me to buy a plan or subscribe to some newsletter in order to unlock the best secrets to practicing stoicism. Sorry If this seems confusing or just doesn't make sense but I don't exactly know where to look or what to ask really. I have already tried some stuff like taking cold showers and trying to react less and not have any outbursts. Do you guys like stoicism? How do you put it into use in your daily lives?
I'm not very well read on Stoicism, but relating to the term itself, of being of a stoical disposition, unchanged despite circumstances, there's one idea of Nietzsche's I often return to. That idea, presented in On the Advantages and Disadvantages of History for Life, is that any living thing must draw a horizon around itself in order to survive, to limit for oneself the parts of the world which are comprehensible and which are not and to utterly push out those things which are beyond itself. Otherwise, life will be spent wasting away, being hounded by things from the periphery in one's life which will eat away at your energy and liveliness until all that's left of you is a marionette-man.

For me, I remember when I was younger I was... well probably severely depressed, but all I know for sure was that I was severely agitated, but what got me through it was a thought that I kept - sort of like a meditation. I would picture myself in a black void without noise and where I had no senses to speak of except my sense of feeling, and I'd imagine holding a sword and defending myself against blows I could not see or hear relying on nothing but my intuition. At once, the thought is painful in that you would struggle to not get hit in this scenario, but the idea of eventually possessing the grace to resist strikes through nothing but a developed sense of intuition and experience of the strikes is quite a consoling one and moreover, the idea calmed me greatly. I liken this thought to that horizon; eventually you come to possess certain weapons in your world that you learn to use, more means is not always better, sometimes a man can suffice with perhaps but one, but it is focusing on this world that you really inhabit and what you really possess that gives me something like that Stoical equanimity. Eliminating the things which you falsely attribute to yourself, perhaps that also.
 

UCD

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stoicism is basically the (correct) recognition that anyone can do anything at any point in time, your mind just has being a pussy as default. it doesn't make it any easier at being a good person, you just have a better time realizing what a good person is. Don't buy any newsletters or tutorials obviously.
 
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greyetch

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Hey all,

I've been getting more into philosophy and trying to find the right one for me. I believe I have found my home in stoicism so I just wanted to create a thread to discuss it. I have started reading meditations and I love it. It is one of the best books I have ever read and it has really deep insights that I am trying to put into use in my daily life. I was wondering If anyone had any tips on being stoic. Every website I go on wants me to buy a plan or subscribe to some newsletter in order to unlock the best secrets to practicing stoicism. Sorry If this seems confusing or just doesn't make sense but I don't exactly know where to look or what to ask really. I have already tried some stuff like taking cold showers and trying to react less and not have any outbursts. Do you guys like stoicism? How do you put it into use in your daily lives?

Meditations is the stoic bible - you already have the best one, but reading the other stoics can't hurt.

You don't need to buy anything or read anything. Just be stoic in your daily life. Do what is right, do what you ought to do, regardless of whether or not you enjoy it. Do not do anything for the sake of pleasure.

Stoicism doesn't work for me, but I understand the appeal and I absolutely ADORE Meditations. The best "self help" book you'll ever read. To me, stoicism is too extreme. I'm not a Buddhist, but I think the have the idea of the "middle path" right. Stoicism is a form of extreme asceticism. Sometimes you just want a cold beer and a burger. Sometimes you just want to bust a nut. I think that is ok - but of course we should be mindful not to overindulge and become hedonist.

"Do the right thing, don't worry about things you can't control, don't overindulge" is pretty good in my book. I don't feel the need to subscribe to any dogma - I pick up what feels right and discard what doesn't. But that is just me - you do you, champ.

philosophy marx GIF
 
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Caspar

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I'm not a Buddhist, but I think the have the idea of the "middle path" right.
For me, when I read someone like Aristotle talking about the Golden Mean, I get this feeling like when I read people on 4chan for too long like a kind of mental fatigue. Not like I can't understand, but that the mere thought of it makes me languid; it sucks out my élan. I think it has something to do with when somebody's thoughts are too sequential, too 'logical'. It's that I suspect I might be able to argue with it on logical grounds, but that even arguing on such grounds would be a sort of concession. "You wrongness isn't about the logic itself, but in being too logical to start with!" It's like incel or R9K stuff too - not to lump you in like that, but I feel it around certain kinds of pessimists too - like fatalistic pessimism.

Why does Aristotle fall under that umbrella? I'm not entirely sure. I think it's because conceiving of virtue or honor under some system feels wrong. I don't do good things for 'reasons', I don't do mean things for 'reasons'. Reasons are all too shallow, they're like a layer of bullshit added on top of something that I do as naturally as reaching out my arm.
 
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