The Asexual Revolution?

Gift of Denial

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On the topic of the OP: I think it's safe to disregard every piece of information based on a poll. If it can even be called "information" at all. They're all fake, and have less value to understand human society that someone telling you that his zoomer cousin made weird faces while seeing that scene in Oppenheimer. If there's a part of "online discourse" that I find completely pointless is the weekly "doomposting" about some given topic because "a study" found out a new entirely hopeless fact about society.

And if I had to vote whether I would prefer less sex scenes in movies I would vote "yes" but that's only because this is what the world is throwing to my face,



It's self-defense, really.
 

stonehead

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The original survey was about sex scenes in movies, not actual sex. The NNN thing too, as others have pointed out, is about porn, not about sex.
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The only time I had seen this meme before was this video , which is more obviously about camgirls, not about actual sex. All of this makes me think that we aren't seeing a rise in asexuality, but instead a backlash against the over saturation of pornography.

The actual research is mixed on the long term effects of porn usage. A study will come out showing that it's definitely harmful, and then it will come to light that the study was funded by a religious organization, who probably have a vested interest in the result of the study. Then another will come out saying it's totally harmless, then it will come to light that it was funded by a "sexuality center" or something, who also have a vested interest in the result. Personally, I think it's probably about as harmful as a drug addiction or sugar addiction, but that might just be my upbringing.

Regardless of the long term medical effects, I think it's clear that it isn't satisfying in the way that real sex is. It's a massive industry that's entirely dedicated to keeping you lonely and horny, so that you'll consume more. People feel manipulated. You could look at the backlash against sex scenes as similar to the backlash against product placement and gorilla marketing. No one wants to just be a pawn in the hands of big advertisers.

This is because people hold sex as an almost holy act, and doing it "wrong" is sacrilegious to... your religion, your family, your culture, your ideology etc... LostInTheCycle has practically demonstrated this:
I think sex is in a very strange place culturally right now. On the one hand, there are a lot of people trying very hard to destigmatize it. Sex work is the same as an office job, casual sex should be totally acceptable with whoever you want, there should be no judgement for anyone having several different sexual partners. That kind of message gets pushed a lot. At the same time though, your boss pressuring you into going golfing with him on the weekends with the subtle implication that it would help you get a promotion is annoying, but your boss pressuring you into having sex with him on the weekends with the subtle implication that it would help you get a promotion is rape, one of the most heinous crimes imaginable. (and before anyone quotes that out of context, I also think it's horrible to coerce someone into sex, especially at work)

It's somehow both a totally normal part of every day life just like any other activity, and also something you should go to jail for even slightly pressuring someone into. No one asked for my personal opinion, but I'm going to share it anyways. I think humans evolved to pair bond for the sake of raising children, and because of that, we're psychologically hard-wired for long-term, monogamous relationships. In the modern age, contraceptives remove the need for sex to be restricted to long-term monogamous relationships, but our brains still tightly link the two. If we care about human well being, we should try to support healthy long-term relationships instead of short-term sexual gratification.

If someone chooses to subscribe to a dozen onlyfans, or join a polygamist relationship, it should be seen in the same way as someone choosing to smoke a pack of cigarettes everyday, or to eat nothing but McDonalds. It's an unhealthy decision, but one entirely within their rights to choose. If someone wants to be heavy-handed in discouraging porn, it should take the form of restricting advertisements that manipulate people into consuming it, just like cigarettes. Give people the freedom to choose without massive corporations spending billions of dollars trying to manipulate their choices.

I think that is what we're seeing in the original survey, and NNN. Young people are tired of being manipulated.
 

RisingThumb

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If someone chooses to subscribe to a dozen onlyfans, or join a polygamist relationship, it should be seen in the same way as someone choosing to smoke a pack of cigarettes everyday, or to eat nothing but McDonalds. It's an unhealthy decision, but one entirely within their rights to choose. If someone wants to be heavy-handed in discouraging porn, it should take the form of restricting advertisements that manipulate people into consuming it, just like cigarettes. Give people the freedom to choose without massive corporations spending billions of dollars trying to manipulate their choices.
It's an unhealthy decision, but one entirely within their rights to choose.
You cannot have rights, without putting the responsibility to uphold those rights upon ALL the citizens of a nation who hold those rights. Do you want the responsibility of upholding the rights of others to do all these things? The liberal answer, is yes, you have a responsibility to let other people do what they want to their body, and consume what they want. The religious answer is no, you have a responsibility to keep people abiding the tenets of their religion. The conservative answer is no, but stealthily and gradually yes because it makes their family more money, leaves the poor getting poorer as these bad decisions keep the poor generationally poor, and let the rich carry on their wealth generationally as they teach their kids against these evils. These are just different ideological outlooks.

Which is ideal? I don't know. Let me ask you a different question. When you impose rights upon people like the right to do what they want with their body, will you also uphold the responsibility to it? Most people, pressed upon this will realise that, while it's within the required responsibilities of their citizenship(among others like paying tax) realise they don't actually want to uphold the responsibilities of their nation. Another example of this is when nations put the responsibility of serving in the military upon all their citizens, and even though it's quite often glorified marching bands, standing outside of places to guard them and boy scouts stuff, they don't want this responsibility and search for a nation with more appropriate rights and responsibilities to their sentiments.

When a nation imposes rights you DO NOT want the responsibility of upholding, it's time to think about whether that nation is right for you. It's a slippery slope, supporting the right to do what you want with your body, sets the precedent for imposing responsibilities to pay taxes, mandatory military service etc...

Additionally, this post is given with a western-centric point of view. Within other countries such as the Philippines, it's a legal offence to commit adultery which swings entirely against what you support which is the liberalisation of sex. This means you have a responsibility to the nation to not commit adultery. Personally, I don't want the responsibility of upholding people's right to liberal sex, or their right to adultery. The weakness of this argument is that the nation selects responsibilities, not you, so just because you want to or don't want to uphold a responsibility, and that this is difficult and time consuming to change and you cannot easily change citizenship(and also points of jus sanguini and jus soli). You could try to counteract this by becoming stateless, but most policies protect against becoming stateless... and some nations(America) don't protect against it, but you end up in a legally dreadful situation if you're stateless.

The very notion that rights just exist in a vacuum without responsibility imposed on you by your nation's government is exceptionally naive. Most people when push comes to shove, will not uphold their nation's responsibilities(and for this point, I think especially in Western-Europe and North America, their populations fall especially deeply in not upholding the responsibilities of their nation). Fortunately push doesn't come to shove, and a lot of police don't bother enforcing dumb laws, and can't enforce laws they don't know about, and there's a lot of blurriness in the law(which is why courts exist)

When you make the absolute that it's within their rights to choose sexual liberation in this fashion, are you willing to uphold the responsibilities that come with it in your day to day life? When you uphold it and support another person in this, you already determined it's "unhealthy", but you're supporting this "unhealthiness" as a responsibility. Are you an agent of "unhealthiness"?

This is in effect the "I disagree with your argument, but will fight for your right to speak it" argument which a lot of leftists despise as it sets the stones for allowing people to be their ultimate hideousness, but it's shifted to "I disagree with your sexually promiscuous lifestyle, but will fight for your right to that promiscuous lifestyle". There are plenty of cases of people with STDs(and also plenty of people with STDs who don't know it and sex makes people do stupid things), going around and intentionally(or incidentally) spreading them, and you have in the self-same tongue fought for their right to that sex? Remember when Covid was a thing, and some people intentionally spread Covid when they got it? It's a similar situation.

The main weakness of this argument, is that citizens are supposed to uphold the spirit of the law and the spirit of their imposed responsibilities(and police and politicians the spirit of financially acquiring a fine spirits collection), but spirit cannot be penned into law. It can only be felt, and when you feel the spirit of the Western world, does it throb with a healthy heartbeat full of vitality? I believe the Western Dream(why western and not American? Because the west is effectively a monoculture where Western Europe are American Proxy states) is unfurling slowly into the next Western twlight of the idols.
No one wants to just be a pawn in the hands of big advertisers.
People who make a living off of marketing? Like youtubers who shake hands with Faust and sell their shadow for a sponsorship deal? Some people want purpose, and even being a pawn provides the elusive purpose of promotion through domination to a queen. Purpose and responsibility mingle, and Police officers supposedly find their life's purpose in upholding the nation's laws and imposing responsibility upon her subjects, and in this, they too are "chivalrous knights" of her kingdom.
Young people are tired of being manipulated.
It's not just young people, it's most people.
"Some people think this is paranoia, but it isn't. Paranoids only think everyone is out to get them. Wizards know it." - Terry Pratchett
 
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People who make a living off of marketing? Like youtubers who shake hands with Faust and sell their shadow for a sponsorship deal? Some people want purpose, and even being a pawn provides the elusive purpose of promotion through domination to a queen. Purpose and responsibility mingle, and Police officers supposedly find their life's purpose in upholding the nation's laws and imposing responsibility upon her subjects, and in this, they too are "chivalrous knights" of her kingdom.
It's not just young people, it's most people.
This is in effect the "I disagree with your argument, but will fight for your right to speak it" argument which a lot of leftists despise as it sets the stones for allowing people to be their ultimate hideousness,
3rd-way leftists
but it's shifted to "I disagree with your sexually promiscuous lifestyle, but will fight for your right to that promiscuous lifestyle". There are plenty of cases of people with STDs(and also plenty of people with STDs who don't know it and sex makes people do stupid things), going around and intentionally(or incidentally) spreading them, and you have in the self-same tongue fought for their right to that sex? Remember when Covid was a thing, and some people intentionally spread Covid when they got it? It's a similar situation.

The main weakness of this argument, is that citizens are supposed to uphold the spirit of the law and the spirit of their imposed responsibilities(and police and politicians the spirit of financially acquiring a fine spirits collection), but spirit cannot be penned into law. It can only be felt, and when you feel the spirit of the Western world, does it throb with a healthy heartbeat full of vitality? I believe the Western Dream(why western and not American? Because the west is effectively a monoculture where Western Europe are American Proxy states) is unfurling slowly into the next Western twlight of the idols.
on my blog, read every "zombie" (ctrl+f) post
 
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stonehead

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You cannot have rights, without putting the responsibility to uphold those rights upon ALL the citizens of a nation who hold those rights. Do you want the responsibility of upholding the rights of others to do all these things? The liberal answer, is yes, you have a responsibility to let other people do what they want to their body, and consume what they want. The religious answer is no, you have a responsibility to keep people abiding the tenets of their religion. The conservative answer is no, but stealthily and gradually yes because it makes their family more money, leaves the poor getting poorer as these bad decisions keep the poor generationally poor, and let the rich carry on their wealth generationally as they teach their kids against these evils. These are just different ideological outlooks.

Which is ideal? I don't know. Let me ask you a different question. When you impose rights upon people like the right to do what they want with their body, will you also uphold the responsibility to it? Most people, pressed upon this will realise that, while it's within the required responsibilities of their citizenship(among others like paying tax) realise they don't actually want to uphold the responsibilities of their nation. Another example of this is when nations put the responsibility of serving in the military upon all their citizens, and even though it's quite often glorified marching bands, standing outside of places to guard them and boy scouts stuff, they don't want this responsibility and search for a nation with more appropriate rights and responsibilities to their sentiments.
I don't understand this argument. It's not that I think it's a dumb argument or anything, I literally don't understand what is being argued. Maybe I'm just dumb and have no reading comprehension, but it might help to have actual examples of what consequences I have responsibility for.
Personally, I don't want the responsibility of upholding people's right to liberal sex, or their right to adultery.
What responsibility is that? I'm not trying to sound confrontational or anything, but I genuinely do not understand. A parent is responsible for their child, and so they have to feed and clothe, and take care of them. A store owner is responsible for their store, and so they have to pay the rent, pay the bills, and manage customers. What do I, or the government or whoever, have to do to take responsibility for people's casual sex? I'm not a legal expert or anything, but I don't think I'm legally liable for anyone else's actions because I failed to ban it nationally. I've never had to pay for my neighbor's condoms either, or (if we assume that it is harmful) their therapy bills.
This is in effect the "I disagree with your argument, but will fight for your right to speak it" argument which a lot of leftists despise as it sets the stones for allowing people to be their ultimate hideousness, but it's shifted to "I disagree with your sexually promiscuous lifestyle, but will fight for your right to that promiscuous lifestyle". There are plenty of cases of people with STDs(and also plenty of people with STDs who don't know it and sex makes people do stupid things), going around and intentionally(or incidentally) spreading them, and you have in the self-same tongue fought for their right to that sex? Remember when Covid was a thing, and some people intentionally spread Covid when they got it? It's a similar situation.
This is the closest to a concrete example as I could find. Surely you don't think that having unprotected sex while knowingly carrying an STD is the same as having protected sex while knowing you're clean, right? I can support the right to one without supporting the right to the other. I can support someone's right to defend themself physically when attacked, and not support their right to assault a stranger, even though both actions are just "punching someone in the face".

And even if I did take that strawman position, I don't understand what my "responsibility" for their right is. Is it legal liability? I've never gone to jail because my neighbor got an STD, but maybe that just makes me an outlaw. Is it the medical treatment for STDs? I don't pay that, they do. Even if you live somewhere with nationalized health care and argue that you are paying for it through taxes, I'll pay the two dollars or whatever for their treatment.
People who make a living off of marketing? Like youtubers who shake hands with Faust and sell their shadow for a sponsorship deal? Some people want purpose, and even being a pawn provides the elusive purpose of promotion through domination to a queen. Purpose and responsibility mingle, and Police officers supposedly find their life's purpose in upholding the nation's laws and imposing responsibility upon her subjects, and in this, they too are "chivalrous knights" of her kingdom.
Would you consider them "pawns" being manipulated by the marketing giants? I would argue they're some of the ones doing the manipulating. I suppose you could argue they're being manipulated in that they need to lie, or tailor their content in order to be approved by their sponsors, but in that case, do you really think they like it? I've never seen a Youtuber get promoted to head of marketing or anything.

I hope this doesn't come across as too mean or confrontational. I read your reply several times and I get the idea that we disagree, but I can't figure out exactly what it is that you disagree with me on.
 

RisingThumb

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I can support the right to one without supporting the right to the other.
This is the crux of my argument. You can support it, and when you make it into a right upheld by a country, you have a responsibility as a citizen of that country to uphold its right.
Is it legal liability?
Not liability, but within a nation you are supposed to abide by the law per the requirements of citizenship(good character). Rights, such as those in the Human Rights act 1998 are converted into laws within a nation. When you invoke rights, you invoke laws to be established, and you invoke the responsibility to abide by those laws.
Surely you don't think that having unprotected sex while knowingly carrying an STD is the same as having protected sex while knowing you're clean, right? I can support the right to one without supporting the right to the other. I can support someone's right to defend themself physically when attacked, and not support their right to assault a stranger, even though both actions are just "punching someone in the face".
If you actively support a right, will you take on the responsibility for it?

Rights don't exist in a vacuum, and have to be converted into laws, abided by their citizens as their responsibility and upheld. This puts a responsibility upon citizens. When you say you support someones right to something, the natural next step is that you take on the responsibility for that right. The right to free speech? Well you have a responsibility to give people this freedom of speech within the confines of the law. When people say "X should be a right", they often forget they are also saying "X should be the responsibility of all citizens within this country". When you are irresponsible about this right, you're corroding the right and its subsequent laws.
Would you consider them "pawns" being manipulated by the marketing giants? I would argue they're some of the ones doing the manipulating.
Sure, but even a pawn has to eat food at the end of the day, and if giants provide, then giants provide. If you work a wage slave job, you know you're being manipulated, but you also know you need to eat at the end of the day and pragmatism is the priority to most people.
but I can't figure out exactly what it is that you disagree with me on.
I disagree with the notion I should hold responsibility as a citizen for upholding rights you think should be in place for sexual liberation. In practice, this rarely comes up anyway as most people just mind their own business. There are some nations where you have the right to vote, but it's mandatory, and you have a responsibility to vote or face sanctions. Does this sound very free or democratic to you? There is a contradiction when you create rights to support sexual liberation, and corrode the right to freedom of speech by making it illegal to speak out against the consequences of it for fear of "wokeism"(as is the case in the UK).
 
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There is a contradiction when you create rights to support sexual liberation, and corrode the right to freedom of speech by making it illegal to speak out against the consequences of it for fear of "wokeism"(as is the case in the UK).
End of one ends where another's begins...

Sure, but even a pawn has to eat food at the end of the day, and if giants provide, then giants provide. If you work a wage slave job, you know you're being manipulated, but you also know you need to eat at the end of the day and pragmatism is the priority to most people.
Let's all die, they get nothing and no one. Or walk away. Or <illegal evil stuff out of hatred and envy>
 
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stonehead

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This is the crux of my argument. You can support it, and when you make it into a right upheld by a country, you have a responsibility as a citizen of that country to uphold its right.

Not liability, but within a nation you are supposed to abide by the law per the requirements of citizenship(good character). Rights, such as those in the Human Rights act 1998 are converted into laws within a nation. When you invoke rights, you invoke laws to be established, and you invoke the responsibility to abide by those laws.
The responsibility to abide by the law that it isn't illegal to have casual sex? I think I can manage that. Again, I'm no legal scholar, but I think things are legal by default, until a law makes it illegal. Laws aren't passed giving you the right to each possible legal choice you could make. I have the right to go outside and to a handstand, but that's not because it was added to the Human Rights act or anything. I have that right because where I live, there's no law that bans handstands.

I disagree with the notion I should hold responsibility as a citizen for upholding rights you think should be in place for sexual liberation. In practice, this rarely comes up anyway as most people just mind their own business. There are some nations where you have the right to vote, but it's mandatory, and you have a responsibility to vote or face sanctions. Does this sound very free or democratic to you? There is a contradiction when you create rights to support sexual liberation, and corrode the right to freedom of speech by making it illegal to speak out against the consequences of it for fear of "wokeism"(as is the case in the UK).
Ok, but there are nations where you have the right to vote and it isn't mandatory. Why are mandatory voting laws relevant to casual sex being legal? I've read this whole thread and so far, no one has advocated for casual sex to be mandatory. That would obviously be absurd. No one has said it should be illegal to criticize either. Driving a car is a legal right. It's also something people criticize online all the time. Social backlash isn't caused by the topic being legal.

I'm pretty sure the UK constitution doesn't include free speech as a concept. There's nothing to erode, because it was never there to begin with. I understand if someone is upset about what's going on in the UK, but it's not a result of casual sex being legal.

I'm really trying to understand what you mean by "the responsibility to uphold that right." It almost seems like it means you can't speak out against it, but that's demonstrably untrue. The US banned alcohol in the 1920s. Before then, a citizen had the right to drink alcohol, but the temperance movement heavily criticized it. They weren't jailed for their criticism. During prohibition many citizens heavily criticized it. They weren't jailed if their protests didn't break some other law. The only "responsibility" I could possibly think of is that you need to live in a world where it isn't banned. You are subjected to the horrible responsibility of knowing that somewhere out there, there are people having sex. That just doesn't seem like a real issue to me.

If that's not what you meant by "responsibility," then please explain it without just repeating that you have the responsibility to uphold a right. I don't understand what that means.
 

RisingThumb

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If that's not what you meant by "responsibility," then please explain it without just repeating that you have the responsibility to uphold a right. I don't understand what that means.
You're saying a right should exist. This puts a responsibility on someone to uphold the right. If nobody has the responsibility to uphold the right, is it really a right?
I have the right to go outside and to a handstand, but that's not because it was added to the Human Rights act or anything.
This misunderstands what a right is. A right is something that a nation makes (at least in spirit) allowed by law to their citizens. You have the capability to do a handstand, but not a right to do a handstand. Admittedly restricting, constraining, making illegal or adding protections around doing a Handstand is banal, but the banality of it hasn't stopped some nations having dumb laws of a similar nature. You're conflating individual ability to do something, and your legal rights.
until a law makes it illegal
Laws can also make things legal, or add protections or constraints. In Europe they do this already around food nutrition, so while you have the capability to eat unhealthy, you don't have the right to eat the same unhealthy store-bought food as Americans.
You are subjected to the horrible responsibility of knowing that somewhere out there, there are people having sex. That just doesn't seem like a real issue to me.
The issue is making sex casual and meaningless and putting responsibility on someone to allow this. People have the capability to have sex casually and that's fine, but when you put responsibility on someone(normally police as they are supposed to uphold the law and keep peace and order. Also court systems and citizens in having to know what laws exist there) by making it a right, you erode what sex means traditionally.
UK constitution doesn't include free speech as a concept
You're correct, it doesn't. A lot of people take the notion that a democracy should have freedom of speech as a core tenet but China, a socialist democracy, does not hold freedom of speech as a core tenet.

In short, you're saying people should have the right to casual sex. I abhor this idea. I have nothing against people having the ability to have casual sex but I would not protect and would not want the responsibility(or want anyone else being responsible) of protecting them doing this. Casual sex corrodes traditional family values, the act itself, the relationship between the two people. Additionally, casual sex teeters on the edge and pushes people towards adultery and cheating(but a lot of other things contribute to this). You are saying people should have the legal right to casual sex, which means putting legal protections and constraints around it(how casual can sex be? So casual even teenagers should do it?). I am not in favour of this. I'm in favour of kicking it so the worse forms of casual sex such as adultery are illegal, rendered crimes committed by both parties(so if your sex is so casual that you don't know the relationship status of the other, you're committing a crime). Casual sex is often associated with drug use, alcohol use or being in shady places anyways, so why would you ennoble it as a legal right upheld in a nation?
 
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alCannium27

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I'll be damned if anyone tells me I cannot get euthanised when I'm too old and fuck it and I wanted it, and I damn anyone who wants to force others' rights to do the same of their own free will.
I don't believe in one-way streets. If I want to be able to do what I want with my own flesh and blood as long as no one else is forced to suffer undue consequences, then everyone should have the ability to make that same decisions themselves. Someone want to join an orgy? That's there choice, as is if I decide to pay 3 hookers, one of whom a Thai tranny, to give me a blowjob, if I so desire. People can blame me, smear me, berate me -- but I will not allow them to stop me from doing so, or help me Khorne.
As for if people don't want to see intimacy on screen -- I can see that happen with mainstream, commercial films, if the masses have associated with doing it on screen with porn, then the same people are likely to be repulsed by it in a "proper" film just because it's against their expectations. I believe in genre conventions serve a purpose in movies; I don't want to see robots in a "proper" western anymore I would want an alien in a fantasy movie, when I do I think it gnarly. I can accept aliens in sci-fis, I can accept gunslingers in westerns, but it'd take a lot of set up for me to exchange the two's places.
So when one's expectation of a "proper" film is "no sex", seeing sex in these films is going to be annoying, to say the least.
 
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AnHero

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I believe in genre conventions serve a purpose in movies; I don't want to see robots in a "proper" western anymore I would want an alien in a fantasy movie, when I do I think it gnarly. I can accept aliens in sci-fis, I can accept gunslingers in westerns, but it'd take a lot of set up for me to exchange the two's places.
So when one's expectation of a "proper" film is "no sex", seeing sex in these films is going to be annoying, to say the least.
Although that's inherently quite arbitrary. I really don't think sex scenes can be tied down to a specific 'genre'. There were times when the most cutting edge 'proper' films featured sex as part of the story. In any case genre mixing is incredibly common; so common that most people don't actually think about it.
 

Knows He Knows Not

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Sex scenes hold no real value to a story, however I don't think that's what this thread is about based on the replies. The problem with a thread like this is people just interpret the opening to say whatever they feel like, either on the taboo of sex, the state of relationships as a whole, or on the sexual habits of individuals. Nonsense thread with a terrible opener of an off-site screencap of an off-site screencap.

When will Agora give us a sage option?
 
Glad we moved away from Globohomo to those asexual bastards, fuck 'em, don't actually.

We should come up with a name for their nefarious conspiracy, I'm thinking the "Ace in the hole plot".
Hoeless Aces
 
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