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The Internet Is A Potemkin Village: Proof Of Dead Internet Theory?

Jessica3cho

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I'm really beginning to seriously think that maybe the internet isn't as big as they make it look, we're limited to the same websites of always. We should be trying to get out of the normieweb and get into the deepweb and what google won't show because true freedom is there. Stuff like this is what I'm talking about: wiby.me
I JUST USED THE SURPIRISE ME FUNCTION AND IT TOOK ME TO CAN2CAN. YOOOOOO, I REMEMBER THAT SITE FROM WAY BACK.

Anyways, thanks for sharing wiby. I rarely use much in the clearnet. Try to stay pretty confined to the deepweb and darknet.
 
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Sweet n' Comfy

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I JUST USED THE SURPIRISE ME FUNCTION AND IT TOOK ME TO CAN2CAN. YOOOOOO, I REMEMBER THAT SITE FROM WAY BACK.

Anyways, thanks for sharing wiby. I rarely use much in the clearnet. Try to stay pretty confined to the deepweb and darknet.
Share that website on the "The Random 90s Website Game" thread, for sure some people will like to see it too!
 
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Bob Jones

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I JUST USED THE SURPIRISE ME FUNCTION AND IT TOOK ME TO CAN2CAN. YOOOOOO, I REMEMBER THAT SITE FROM WAY BACK.

Anyways, thanks for sharing wiby. I rarely use much in the clearnet. Try to stay pretty confined to the deepweb and darknet.
What sites do you visit on the "deepweb/darknet?"
 
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Ronin

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What happens if I search 'Luc Montagnier covid', naturally if I search that you'd assume I'd like to see his statements on Covid, what I get is "fact checks" and "debunks".

LrXgF2b.png


If I search 'Kary Mullis pcr'
Fact check: Inventor of method used to test for COVID-19 didn't ...
The inventor of PCR never said it wasn't designed ...
FactCheck: Did the creator of PCR tests say they don't work for ...
He died in '19 so obviously he didn't say they don't work for Covid, but he did say things.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aISPlTLbJo

"you know these guys like fauci get up there and start talking you know he doesn't know anything really about anything and i'd say that to his face nothing the man thinks you can take a blood sample and stick it in an electron microscope and if it's got a virus in there you'll know it he doesn't understand electron microscopy and he doesn't understand medicine he does he should not be in a position like he's in most of those guys up there on the top are just total administrative people and they don't know anything about what's going on the bottom you know those guys have got an agenda ..." (extracted with savesubs.com)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWOJKuSKw5c

"i think misused pcr is not quite i don't think you can misuse pcr actually no the results the interpretation of it see if you if you if you can say if if they would if they could find this virus in you at all and with pcr if you do it well you can find almost anything in anybody it starts making you believe in the sort of buddhist notion that everything is contained and everything else right i mean because if you can amplify one single molecule up to to something that you can really measure which pcr can do then there's just very few molecules"
and these are the sort of things one would like to find, not "he didn't say that".
Same sort of ... if you search 'Robert Malone'.
 
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adoynia

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I'm really beginning to seriously think that maybe the internet isn't as big as they make it look, we're limited to the same websites of always. We should be trying to get out of the normieweb and get into the deepweb and what google won't show because true freedom is there. Stuff like this is what I'm talking about: wiby.me
My issue with the deep web is that it has a limited demographic whereas the clear net attracts a much wider variety of people. From what I've seen from the deep web it's the usual people who browse there that are on less mainstream sites like this one so the subject range will be quite limited. How can the deep web attract the interests of people who are: more casual fans, like diverse types of music that isnt just very indie internet exclusive stuff, people who post (non illegal) content either by fan content or original content, light hearted (but not stupid) individuals, ect. I'm thinking more of the internet userbase that was available on clear net in 2007 to 2012 and also those old Usenet and (90s era) yahoo/google communities. I do like less layman information being available for specialized interests & I have niche interests but I also have more mainstream interests where I find the deep web doesn't really focus on. Perspective on more mainstream hobbies from an informational crowd would be really interesting, like Straight Dope Forums.
 
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TamagoSuki

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What happens if I search 'Luc Montagnier covid', naturally if I search that you'd assume I'd like to see his statements on Covid, what I get is "fact checks" and "debunks".

LrXgF2b.png


If I search 'Kary Mullis pcr'
Fact check: Inventor of method used to test for COVID-19 didn't ...
The inventor of PCR never said it wasn't designed ...
FactCheck: Did the creator of PCR tests say they don't work for ...
He died in '19 so obviously he didn't say they don't work for Covid, but he did say things.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aISPlTLbJo

"you know these guys like fauci get up there and start talking you know he doesn't know anything really about anything and i'd say that to his face nothing the man thinks you can take a blood sample and stick it in an electron microscope and if it's got a virus in there you'll know it he doesn't understand electron microscopy and he doesn't understand medicine he does he should not be in a position like he's in most of those guys up there on the top are just total administrative people and they don't know anything about what's going on the bottom you know those guys have got an agenda ..." (extracted with savesubs.com)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWOJKuSKw5c

"i think misused pcr is not quite i don't think you can misuse pcr actually no the results the interpretation of it see if you if you if you can say if if they would if they could find this virus in you at all and with pcr if you do it well you can find almost anything in anybody it starts making you believe in the sort of buddhist notion that everything is contained and everything else right i mean because if you can amplify one single molecule up to to something that you can really measure which pcr can do then there's just very few molecules"
and these are the sort of things one would like to find, not "he didn't say that".
Same sort of ... if you search 'Robert Malone'.

Honestly? It's just a cycle. These fact-checking websites used to be used by a few people to actually fact-check news articles, and the websites were fairly decent. Now that so many people are using it, it will inevitably attract the attention of larger parties that are willing to pay for opinions/articles. It will be harder to tell if it's the truth. It's a self-defeating prophecy.

Same thing happened to reddit. It used to not be absolute shit, you could discuss things and could be fairly certain what you were reading was legitimate and human-screened. Not now.
 
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Jessica3cho

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My issue with the deep web is that it has a limited demographic whereas the clear net attracts a much wider variety of people. From what I've seen from the deep web it's the usual people who browse there that are on less mainstream sites like this one so the subject range will be quite limited. How can the deep web attract the interests of people who are: more casual fans, like diverse types of music that isnt just very indie internet exclusive stuff, people who post (non illegal) content either by fan content or original content, light hearted (but not stupid) individuals, ect. I'm thinking more of the internet userbase that was available on clear net in 2007 to 2012 and also those old Usenet and (90s era) yahoo/google communities. I do like less layman information being available for specialized interests & I have niche interests but I also have more mainstream interests where I find the deep web doesn't really focus on. Perspective on more mainstream hobbies from an informational crowd would be really interesting, like Straight Dope Forums.
That's what I like about the deepweb. Its made by the people who go there, not by some mainstream, cultural, current-wave bullshit. I don't want it to be normie-friendly, I want the normies to stay away and ruin their corner of the internet. If you want some intellectual space for mainstream stuff then:
1. Go make it yourself. That's what the deepweb is all about. Start a forum. Start a blog. Start an imageboard.
2. Good luck either: a. Finding someone who uses the deepweb who is interested in something mainstream that they want to use the deepweb for OR b. Finding a normie willing to learn to use the deepweb just for your site when they have hundreds of sites on t he clearnet they can go to for the same hobby
 
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adoynia

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That's what I like about the deepweb. Its made by the people who go there, not by some mainstream, cultural, current-wave bullshit. I don't want it to be normie-friendly, I want the normies to stay away and ruin their corner of the internet. If you want some intellectual space for mainstream stuff then:
1. Go make it yourself. That's what the deepweb is all about. Start a forum. Start a blog. Start an imageboard.
2. Good luck either: a. Finding someone who uses the deepweb who is interested in something mainstream that they want to use the deepweb for OR b. Finding a normie willing to learn to use the deepweb just for your site when they have hundreds of sites on t he clearnet they can go to for the same hobby
I wouldn't call what I'm looking for normie; to me normies are those who spend their time posting FB/Twitter memes and have only a surface level appreciation of their hobbies to the point where they can't bring informational additions to their topic of interest. A group I was speaking about were people in between normie and internet fanatic, people who have a genuine, passionate interest in their target subject, some social experience, but with also internet experience or knowledge of more arcane/obscure subjects. Iirc, this type used to be common on the early internet along with the more extreme outlier types. What exactly is your idea of normie vs the typical deep web poster in terms of personality differences and hobbies?
 
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Zakura

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There is something I see often nowadays. People using big words like socio-economic, romanticizing, sexualized, etc... Out of context or to appear smarter than they really are. I have a strange feeling about this. No one talks like that in real life, and these words always seem forced. Robotic in a way.

People are becoming very sterile or how to call it. Their thinking is binary, something must be either 100% bad or 100% good, you have to pick a side, if you aren't outraged and offended 24/7, you are evil...

Another problem I see is that people take everything word for word. There was a "study" about how brain matures around the time you are 25. It was a rough estimate, of course everyone is different. But some folks seem to think that once you are 25 years and 1 second old, you are done developing and you are a mature, fully functional adult. Scary how people think the human body is a machine.

I'm also kinda suspicious of the whole true crime trend. These tragic cases are being used for clout, not to mention they do "spice it up" to make it even sound worse. I remember one case about the murder of a man by a "mafia". All the commenters were outraged at this "mafia", and saying it was this cartoonishly evul organization. When in reality, the man was murdered by his neighbor. There was no syndicate involved.
Reminds me of a case in my country. A journalist was murdered, and the media started to blame the ruling political party of assassinating him, even though it was never proved to be true. The prime minister had to resign, due to mass protests. Then everyone voted for a political party that ruined the entire country. So it's safe to say when someone talks about "mafia" involvement, without mentioning a specific clan, it's safe to say that part of the story is bullshit.

There are fake accounts on FB pushing pro-government propaganda, most of them have StyleGAN images. I'm not sure if these are bots or just paid shills to be honest.

All of this is lowkey evidence for the Potemkin Village model. Bots screw up your perception of numbers. A post or a tweet has 1000 magic point: "it must be so true!" Even though in reality that means nothing. These bots attack any sceptics or anyone who is not histrionic.
Likes on youtube comments are a big mystery for me. Few years ago, the top comments had triple digit numbers next to them. Nowadays comments get nearly the same amount of likes as the video and they all follow a common pattern, using the same memes, buzz words and dogwhistles.

I'm on a private conspiracy forum, where dead internet, actor based reality and dead cities (yes, it's a thing, real Potemkin Villages) are the main topic. The users there are dedicated to exposing the shills and bots on social media. They uncovered that most FB group mods have a background in marketing and creating online communities. Other interesting finds include:
-most viral tweets have the exact same users responding and liking them
-few twitter e-celebs control the narrative
-feds are on the site and use deepfake technologies to create fake identities (BAP was right)
-4chan threads that get posted often are propaganda materials
-not all propaganda appears political
-some bots are benign and just post pretty pictures (the ***dior accounts on twitter)
-feds from the same groups create sockpuppet accounts and use the same lingo
->redditcostanzayeahrightsmirk and facebook mods are involved in some dark shit, but when they are called out, they are told to gaslight people
-bots and shills push propaganda against foreign entities and anyone going against status quo, if they are called out on their hypocrisy, the will most likely bring out some logical fallacy like whataboutism
-posts are targeted at individuals and everyone probably sees a different version of the internet

My favourite theory from that forum is probably the different versions of internet theory. Like each time you log on, a different Potemkin village or server is presented to you. This is pretty believable to me. Example: I was talking to a friend and she brought up the stupid "zamn" meme. I had no idea this existed. It wasn't on the server I was on. But then I started to see it everywhere. Stuff like this happens quite often. I didn't know there was an equivalent of the word jab in my language, but after seeing one post with it, I see it everywhere. Or I get into a niché, and then I start seeing it everywhere.
 
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Panasonicdx

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これが、すべての人間の情報を民営化することが危険である理由です。私たちがインターネットから感じる現実は、物事の本質ではないのではないかと思うことがあります。それは気がかりな考えです。すべての情報が同じ検索エンジンからのものである場合、検索エンジンを介して誤った情報を広めるのは簡単です。
That's what I was gonna say
 
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Panasonicdx

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There is something I see often nowadays. People using big words like socio-economic, romanticizing, sexualized, etc... Out of context or to appear smarter than they really are. I have a strange feeling about this. No one talks like that in real life, and these words always seem forced. Robotic in a way.

People are becoming very sterile or how to call it. Their thinking is binary, something must be either 100% bad or 100% good, you have to pick a side, if you aren't outraged and offended 24/7, you are evil...

Another problem I see is that people take everything word for word. There was a "study" about how brain matures around the time you are 25. It was a rough estimate, of course everyone is different. But some folks seem to think that once you are 25 years and 1 second old, you are done developing and you are a mature, fully functional adult. Scary how people think the human body is a machine.

I'm also kinda suspicious of the whole true crime trend. These tragic cases are being used for clout, not to mention they do "spice it up" to make it even sound worse. I remember one case about the murder of a man by a "mafia". All the commenters were outraged at this "mafia", and saying it was this cartoonishly evul organization. When in reality, the man was murdered by his neighbor. There was no syndicate involved.
Reminds me of a case in my country. A journalist was murdered, and the media started to blame the ruling political party of assassinating him, even though it was never proved to be true. The prime minister had to resign, due to mass protests. Then everyone voted for a political party that ruined the entire country. So it's safe to say when someone talks about "mafia" involvement, without mentioning a specific clan, it's safe to say that part of the story is bullshit.

There are fake accounts on FB pushing pro-government propaganda, most of them have StyleGAN images. I'm not sure if these are bots or just paid shills to be honest.

All of this is lowkey evidence for the Potemkin Village model. Bots screw up your perception of numbers. A post or a tweet has 1000 magic point: "it must be so true!" Even though in reality that means nothing. These bots attack any sceptics or anyone who is not histrionic.
Likes on youtube comments are a big mystery for me. Few years ago, the top comments had triple digit numbers next to them. Nowadays comments get nearly the same amount of likes as the video and they all follow a common pattern, using the same memes, buzz words and dogwhistles.

I'm on a private conspiracy forum, where dead internet, actor based reality and dead cities (yes, it's a thing, real Potemkin Villages) are the main topic. The users there are dedicated to exposing the shills and bots on social media. They uncovered that most FB group mods have a background in marketing and creating online communities. Other interesting finds include:
-most viral tweets have the exact same users responding and liking them
-few twitter e-celebs control the narrative
-feds are on the site and use deepfake technologies to create fake identities (BAP was right)
-4chan threads that get posted often are propaganda materials
-not all propaganda appears political
-some bots are benign and just post pretty pictures (the ***dior accounts on twitter)
-feds from the same groups create sockpuppet accounts and use the same lingo
->redditcostanzayeahrightsmirk and facebook mods are involved in some dark shit, but when they are called out, they are told to gaslight people
-bots and shills push propaganda against foreign entities and anyone going against status quo, if they are called out on their hypocrisy, the will most likely bring out some logical fallacy like whataboutism
-posts are targeted at individuals and everyone probably sees a different version of the internet

My favourite theory from that forum is probably the different versions of internet theory. Like each time you log on, a different Potemkin village or server is presented to you. This is pretty believable to me. Example: I was talking to a friend and she brought up the stupid "zamn" meme. I had no idea this existed. It wasn't on the server I was on. But then I started to see it everywhere. Stuff like this happens quite often. I didn't know there was an equivalent of the word jab in my language, but after seeing one post with it, I see it everywhere. Or I get into a niché, and then I start seeing it everywhere.
I think that last part is the "algorithm" doing its part
 
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MorphedSnowman

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Not to pick on you, but I think this is an important idea to clarify:

Every time a discussion like this comes up someone inevitably brings up "decentralization" (often accompanied by some vague reference to crypto or blockchain tech). While it's usually well-meaning, this kind of phrasing is a mistake because it frames things wrong.

Centralization is good. Centralization means you have a community with a hierarchy and gatekeeping of some kind. This very forum is CENTRALIZED: it exists on one server, has one set of admins, and has a standard for what is and is not acceptable. Every successful organization in the history of mankind has been "centralized." "Decentralization" is impossible, because as soon as you abandon a rigid power structure things fall apart. It LOOKS really attractive from the outside, but it's an enormous waste of resources to pursue because it's a dream based on gibberish.

Centralization is not the enemy. Having a defined power structure is not the enemy. The enemy is either:

1. Having shitty people in charge (the culture sucks) or
2. Having too many people (the culture can't be absorbed)

These problems can't be solved by technology. They can't be solved by creating some wacky new arrangement. Flat org structures don't work (see Valve). Open offices don't work. Communism sure as hell doesn't work. What does work? Getting new leadership, and a new, smaller (but still centralized!) place to call home.

For reasons that still aren't entirely clear, an ancient civilization called the Cucuteni-Trypillian used to periodically burn their settlements to the ground, roughly once every 60-80 years. Maybe they understood what we need to re-learn: every so often things just get too rotten, and you have to start over.
What you described is not decentralization, but chaos. What you call of small spaces being scattered around the net is what decentralization is. There's no "master" of the internet then. What decentralization allows you, is when you have shitty people in charge or too many people or what not, you can just hop to an other place and be free from them. If things are centralized you can't escape from that place since it's the only one that exists.

And as even a counter argument to what you said, I think valve worked brilliantly, seeing that from the 90s till early 2010s they made games they frequently shook up gaming or outright made new genres. What they have now though is just a company that's giant, with no competition, no reason to even try. That will ruin whatever organization no matter it's structure. What it showed in it's upcoming years though is creative chaos that's lacking everywhere nowdays which I believe very rigid organizations rarely have.
 
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hod

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Surprised no one mentioned Urbit, since this new decentralized internet already exists and is happening right over there
<———— a few UDP hops away
 
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Vaporeon

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Thank you op, I don't know if this is evidence of dead internet theory but it's certainly somewhat alarming. I tested it myself and got similar results from Google.


One issue I've been considering with the old internet vs. the new one - people used to be okay with getting only a few hundred hits on their website. Nowadays, most people wouldn't bother with numbers like that. Most of the old internet crowd didn't actually go anywhere, and even if only a small amount of new internet users are interested, the overall amount of people interested in this content should actually be larger than it was 20 years ago, when only a small amount of the population had access.

Maybe that's part of why the bots rack up millions of views, so that smaller creators feel like they shouldn't bother if they are not hitting those numbers?
 
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Did anyone ever watch that Dexter's Laboratory episode where he gets lost in the old part of his laboratory? Discovering it to be much larger than his modern surface level lab. I feel like that's the perfect metaphor for the internet. If you include all the content that has ever been on the web, it's gargantuan. But much of it has been lost to surprisingly little protest. Google is indeed a potemkin village, but Google isn't the internet. Unfortunately the internet as a whole is majority lost content.
 
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E R I L A Z

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Do you know what we need? We need those old link list websites, we need more decentralization. Maybe we should make our own internet: a new renaissance away from the companies and the government.
I mean why do you think people always keep archive links? That's something that's helped me along this journey; being able to see how things change over time
 
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Plants

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At least forums like this and others are relatively alive. At least it sure seems that way...
 
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hplc

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Do you know what we need? We need those old link list websites, we need more decentralization. Maybe we should make our own internet: a new renaissance away from the companies and the government.
Hi, i know im late for this discussion, but its EXACTLY what ive been looking for, is this topic still valid?. I just discovered this site by chance. But spent a lot of thinking on this one. (have autism, so i might come off as more than just a little weird)
 

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