The Perennialism Thread

[Taleisin]

Gonna drop this here, livestream on the 23rd

View: https://youtu.be/dJwKPg_EaUM

 

[Deleted member 3373]

I found another commonality. Fairies. Now some of you might be thinking "A fairy, as in those little people with wings?" No. Instead I'm talking about actual fairies which were not those little people with wings but rather are a whole category of spirits. For example hobgoblins are a type of fairy and were actually considered to be good spirits that helped people out. Now we come to the Islamic concept of jinn. Jinns are described as spirits that can be either good, neutral, or evil. I theorise that European fairies and Arab Jinns are actually the same thing as they share a lot of attributes. From the fact they could be either good or bad to the fact they also are reported to have a hatred of salt and iron. People were also weary about them, believing that making contact with them could be dangerous. The only difference being that Christianity tended to have a rather dismissive view of them despite the prevelance in belief in fairies among the population of medieval Europe. They share many common attributes to where I believe they may actually be the same thing.

 

[lain is here]

I found another commonality. Fairies. Now some of you might be thinking "A fairy, as in those little people with wings?" No. Instead I'm talking about actual fairies which were not those little people with wings but rather are a whole category of spirits.

I recommend you check out the book I'm currently reading: The Philosophers' Secret Fire: A History of the Imagination. Talks a lot about that, specifically about the Sidhe and similar variants

 

[gwen]

Your examples mean nothing. If there was a perfect society, why would they move to an imperfect society? Why would people keep trying to find shortcuts that led to this?

Selfishness and naivete are two obvious reasons.

It's probably a red herring to say that at some point in the distant past human societies "had it right". The fall began before humans even entered into the picture: take a look at pre-Cambrian fossils and you can see the wonderful, exuberant shapes multicellular life took before it learned how to prey on itself. Those possibilities are now foreclosed, at least for the time being. But they illustrate the idea that the further back in time you go, the less distorted and entropic life appears. You get closer and closer to life's original form, life's original idea, which is the source of our energy and the object of our hopes. "The ground of our beseeching", to use Julian of Norwich's memorable phrase.

 

[Fairykang]

I found another commonality. Fairies. Now some of you might be thinking "A fairy, as in those little people with wings?" No. Instead I'm talking about actual fairies which were not those little people with wings but rather are a whole category of spirits. For example hobgoblins are a type of fairy and were actually considered to be good spirits that helped people out. Now we come to the Islamic concept of jinn.

I've heard it theorized before that fae are elementals.

Here's my contribution to the thread.

Fairy tale origins thousands of years old, researchers say

Fairy tales like Beauty and the Beast can be traced back thousands of years, according to researchers at universities in Durham and Lisbon.

www.bbc.com

Apparently the fairy tales we know can be traced all the way back to 5000 BC. Similar to a shared story about a flood myth, this would be one avenue of research if the fairy tales we all know have been handed down and spread across euroasia largely unadulterated there must be something to the stories. Makes me think of that Ayreon song, Sail Away to Avalon.

 

[Deleted member 3373]

I've heard it theorized before that fae are elementals.

Here's my contribution to the thread.

Fairy tale origins thousands of years old, researchers say

Fairy tales like Beauty and the Beast can be traced back thousands of years, according to researchers at universities in Durham and Lisbon.

www.bbc.com

Apparently the fairy tales we know can be traced all the way back to 5000 BC. Similar to a shared story about a flood myth, this would be one avenue of research if the fairy tales we all know have been handed down and spread across euroasia largely unadulterated there must be something to the stories. Makes me think of that Ayreon song, Sail Away to Avalon.

Very interesting. These stories date back a long, long time ago. Also could you define what you mean by elementals?

 

[bnuungus]

Catholicism is kind of paganism with a Christian skin

I'm genuinely confused by this statement since before Martin Luther there wasn't a difference between Christianity and Catholicism. Are you saying Catholicism was shaped by some nebulous concept called Christianity or that Catholicism took pagan practices and reformed them according to Christ?

 

[Fairykang]

Very interesting. These stories date back a long, long time ago. Also could you define what you mean by elementals?

Just something I've heard spoken by the new age types, haven't looked into it myself

 

[Friend]

I'm genuinely confused by this statement since before Martin Luther there wasn't a difference between Christianity and Catholicism. Are you saying Catholicism was shaped by some nebulous concept called Christianity or that Catholicism took pagan practices and reformed them according to Christ?

The pagan things are mostly in the upper levels. They keep a lot of weird pagan stuff in the Vatican. And they promote things warned about in the bible like idolatry, people in fancy clothes, etc. I'm sure the average catholic though doesn't participate in this stuff.

 

[bnuungus]

The pagan things are mostly in the upper levels. They keep a lot of weird pagan stuff in the Vatican. And they promote things warned about in the bible like idolatry, people in fancy clothes, etc. I'm sure the average catholic though doesn't participate in this stuff.

Yeah I know there's some shit going on with the velvet mafia but I was just kind of confused because it sounded like you had a very odd view of how Catholicism was brought into the world.

 

[gwen]

Not trying to derail the thread but I just want to remind everyone that the Roman Catholic Church is literally the undead continuation of the Roman Empire. Antithetical to God and His Christ.

I know they have an "anti-establishment" glamor on account of they oppose certain specific elements of the Lord's eternal truth which are beginning to manifest in the world. And many Catholics are good people who truly hear the Word, including the present pope.

But "Holy Mother Church" belongs to Caesar. Beware.

 

[Deleted member 3373]

So I just thought I might share this. I think I just had an interaction with a fairy, specifically a div. A div is apparently a nature spirit quite close to that of an angel. I saw it in the corner of my eye walking on the pavement towards my house. When I passed it I felt a very calm and friendly presence. I think it was quite fond of me. I've been looking into its' attributes and I found out that it's a nature spirit which typically hangs out around trees and plants and stuff. I don't mow my lawn or keep my garden in check. I think I made it very happy. Perhaps I should make a separate thread for this?

 

[FalseReality]

Selfishness and naivete are two obvious reasons.

It's probably a red herring to say that at some point in the distant past human societies "had it right". The fall began before humans even entered into the picture: take a look at pre-Cambrian fossils and you can see the wonderful, exuberant shapes multicellular life took before it learned how to prey on itself. Those possibilities are now foreclosed, at least for the time being. But they illustrate the idea that the further back in time you go, the less distorted and entropic life appears. You get closer and closer to life's original form, life's original idea, which is the source of our energy and the object of our hopes. "The ground of our beseeching", to use Julian of Norwich's memorable phrase.

Our minds being filled with more distorted and entropic ideas doesn't prove we have it more or less wrong, just that we're more confused. Just because the more common/accepted idea worked doesn't mean it was Truth of the universe.

 

[boywifefailure]

I found another commonality. Fairies. Now some of you might be thinking "A fairy, as in those little people with wings?" No. Instead I'm talking about actual fairies which were not those little people with wings but rather are a whole category of spirits. For example hobgoblins are a type of fairy and were actually considered to be good spirits that helped people out. Now we come to the Islamic concept of jinn. Jinns are described as spirits that can be either good, neutral, or evil. I theorise that European fairies and Arab Jinns are actually the same thing as they share a lot of attributes. From the fact they could be either good or bad to the fact they also are reported to have a hatred of salt and iron. People were also weary about them, believing that making contact with them could be dangerous. The only difference being that Christianity tended to have a rather dismissive view of them despite the prevelance in belief in fairies among the population of medieval Europe. They share many common attributes to where I believe they may actually be the same thing.

I think these commonalities between religions are actually incredibly interesting. There's a lot of mythological beings like this, but often times there's still something separating them and preventing them from being exactly the same. In some cases, it's just a different name in a different language, but sometimes it's different cultures explaining the same thing, but in different ways. It's not always done with religious intent, but as humans we tend to try to define everything in some way, and those definitions often depend on the culture from which they arise.

An example of this would be dwarfs. So many cultures internationally depict some kind of short, stubby human in their mythology, but there's still differences between them. Some cultures call them dwarfs (or a translation of such), elves, the Irish call them leprechauns, in some parts of England they're called Knockers, you get the gist. However, these cultures also portray them differently. In some places, dwarfs are helpful and cheerful, offering to assist households in exchange for certain goods. In other places, dwarfs are mischievous or even downright cruel. Maybe these dwarfs do/did actually exist around the world, hence why they're so common in folklore. Who knows? But, why is there such a difference in how they are described personality-wise? That might require looking deeper into each culture for real explanations. I'm just theorizing here.
Another example of this would be thunder gods. Many polytheistic religions around the world have historically believed there was a god of some sort in charge of lightning. By defining and explaining it in some way, this brings comfort to people by relieving the fear of the unknown, at least that's why I believe such a trend has been so popular all throughout history. However, looking deeper in, a lot of the aforementioned cultures depicted their thunder gods differently, from being the noble "king of gods" (like the Greek Zeus), to figures such as the Japanese Raijin, who is seen as more mischievous and morally gray. I think looking at these differences can actually provide interesting insight into the values of the individual cultures and their views on certain aspects of the world. Thunder and lightning are (rightfully) terrifying to human beings, so whoever is in charge of that stuff must be incredibly powerful, but how would they use that power? In the case of Zeus, it brought him respect and reverence, and people would avoiding angering him lest they get struck by lightning. On the other hand, Raijin was seen as an unpredictable trickster of sorts who would bring helpful rain, but could also hit you with a lightning bolt whenever he wanted. Of course, this isn't the best example, because modern science explains how lightning works, but it's understandable why people in a previous time would choose to explain it with the divine.

Religion is an incredibly powerful aspect of culture, and tends to reflect existing cultural beliefs, intentionally or not. The bottom line I'm trying to make here is that a lot of this mythology is common across cultures, and I think for a lot of things, the reality is a combination of how different cultures have decided to explain things over time. But, I do think many of the inconsistencies we see between cultural lore is the result of different cultural attitudes towards certain things.

I kinda rambled a bit here, hope this made sense. If not, whatever. It's an interesting topic to dwell upon at least.

So I just thought I might share this. I think I just had an interaction with a fairy, specifically a div. A div is apparently a nature spirit quite close to that of an angel. I saw it in the corner of my eye walking on the pavement towards my house. When I passed it I felt a very calm and friendly presence. I think it was quite fond of me. I've been looking into its' attributes and I found out that it's a nature spirit which typically hangs out around trees and plants and stuff. I don't mow my lawn or keep my garden in check. I think I made it very happy. Perhaps I should make a separate thread for this?

Editing to respond to this as well: I think it'd be cool to have a thread relating to real-life encounters with the supernatural. It's a fascinating topic (bonus points for natural lawn)