The Personal Web

[Ross_Я]

To that end, the personal web has a big "eyeball" problem. People want what they created to be viewed, and probably viewed by as many people as possible. Social media makes that significantly easier.

I think it only works if you are making content that appeals to the masses; you know, kind of popular stuff to begin with. Or if you are just really annoying (or your team is) and can pour tons of time to post about your stuff on every single social media platform rather consistently.
There's also the third way - pouring money into ads, but then I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter if you are advertising a page on a social platform or your personal site.
I mean, from my experience as a guy who does rather niche content and just throws it online because why not, who obviously hadn't gave even a single cent into ads and who only really posts vids on YouTube without sharing the link to it in his Facebook/Twitter/Discord server (none of those exist in the first place), the result is about 1000 subscribers in 8 years.
People obviously have to actively search for my vids to find them - they are barely of interest to general public, and therefore I can conclude that I could make just as much hits and following with a personal website. In my case it doesn't matter much if Google would've returned my site or my YouTube page.

If anything, I have a feeling that if you are making niche stuff, personal website is actually a better way to go. But that's just a feeling and nothing else.

 

[Jodo_Fan]

IMO the fallacy in indie circles is the assumption that people want to create instead of consuming.

I think it would be important to note that the "perfection" of social media in this case is strictly related to its ability to reach a bigger audience than a self-hosted site.

Yeah, while I think everyone could benefit from producing more and consuming less, the point is that those who want to create should consider setting up their own independent corner of the web. To this end, it would be nice if the indie scene catered to technical and non-technical folk alike. At least to an extent.

And, sure, it's true, big-social's selling point is a large, nay enormous, potential audience. For the vast majority of hopeful users, though, this potential audience never materializes. And, of course, there's a lot of yuck involved, too.

• Letting an algorithm train you to optimize for likes is yuck.
• Watching your posts get buried by an algorithm because 'whatever' is yuck.
• Getting your soul profiled, poked and dissected so that some corporation, government or whatever can nudge you towards some specific outcome is yuck.
• Having your sense-making capacities shredded by chaotic, recommender-driven content is well and truly yuck.
• Realizing that volume of claps, likes, licks or whatever doesn't translate to volume of click throughs, patrons, sales or whatever is also, you guessed it.... yuck.
• Plus I just don't like tech billionaires.

 

[Jodo_Fan]

That dichotomy between the technical and the creative is an interesting one to perhaps explore a little deeper. Though I do have to agree with you, all the capacity and technological prowess in the world doesn't mean shid if you don't do anything with it. Does that mean the tech is always just a means to an end? The trees that MUST be present in order for the forest to be? Where is the ideal sweet spot of self-sufficiency and autonomy that doesn't tip people over into the realm of exasperation. It's easy to suggest the answer may lie in places like Bear Blog and omg.lol or tools like Publii, but I think it's more about the process, the gradual submersion, the silent metamorphosis.

Blogging vs. Blog Setups. You know it's true.

Source: https://rakhim.org/honestly-undefined/19/

 

[stonehead]

To that end, the personal web has a big "eyeball" problem. People want what they created to be viewed, and probably viewed by as many people as possible. Social media makes that significantly easier. Until the personal web solves that problem people won't be as swayed to pull the trigger. Yeah it might be easy to set up a Bear Blog, but the value proposition is low if only a couple people a month will view it.

I'm not entirely sure that this is actually a problem. I agree that it's true, far fewer people read things posted on a personal site than things posted on a big social media site. That's just the nature of the art form, so to speak. The personal web is a lot slower pace. It's more about building something that can be explored, but it's more about the building than the exploring. Whereas the social web is more about creating an endless feed of content to be consumed. One isn't inherently better or worse than the other, they just serve different purposes.

I have several sketchbooks full of art that basically no one but me has seen. I view my website as similar to those sketches. If I draw something I want people to see, I'll use something more public, and if I have thoughts I want people to hear, I'll write them here. If it's more about practice or organizing my thoughts, I'll hide them away in a sketchbook or on my personal website.

There's nothing wrong with wanting people to see the art your worked hard on. If anything, it's a little weird if you don't. For people who want "exposure" online, there's social media. In fact, even if you hate massive tech conglomerates, a similar movement to the indieweb is creating mastadon bluesky and all that. For people who don't want the algorithmic pressure to post every day or risk losing followers, there's the personal web.

Honestly, if someone does care about both (both the appeals of a personal website and having people consume their content), I would recommend to just do both. Make a website for fun, and whenever you draw something or whatever, post it both to your website and your social media, and cross link the two.

 

[Regal]

I think it would be important to note that the "perfection" of social media in this case is strictly related to its ability to reach a bigger audience than a self-hosted site.

And ease of use. You don't have to learn anything and everything is done for you. No thinking required. No customization. Just a straight content feed for you to add to, baby!

I think it only works if you are making content that appeals to the masses; you know, kind of popular stuff to begin with.

Agreed. If you're creating content that is only getting a handful of views in the first place on social media then maybe you might even fare better on the personal web!

I'm not entirely sure that this is actually a problem.

I agree overall. Obviously if it is the right tool for the job then people shouldn't be discouraged. However, what Eden was talking about (I think) is the barrier to entry to the personal web. There are a lot of annoying small things about the indie/personal web. It is death by a thousand paper cuts sometimes...and then you have the low viewership to boot. It is a hard sell under most circumstances, is all.

 

[Jodo_Fan]

I'm slightly disappointment in having failed to kick off a social media dis session. Oh, well. But I still think social media's reach, in practice, is overstated much of the time. Especially when you take the average user, bots and quality of engagement into consideration. It's also wrong to assume that indie sites have inherently limited traffic potential. You have to work social media to get engagement. Same goes for traffic on the small web. And, sure, most independent sites experience a trickle of visitors, but how many followers do most social media users have, and how many of those followers engage to any real degree?

EDIT: Of course, if people enjoy using social media, that's cool, too, and there are folk on social media and the personal web who give zero shits about engagement and traffic.

 

[Eden]

Overdue for an update but here's a simple, direct one:

The 32-Bit Cafe (@xandra) is officially trying to expand its primary community hub beyond Discord (quite wisely, imo), and has, as of today, officially opened up to the general public: The 32-Bit Cafe Discourse

While their Discord will continue, the goal is to: "scale down the Discord server's scope and migrate the bulk of community discussion to the Discourse".

If the Small Web is your jam, and their Communities Guidelines seem acceptable to you, consider signing-up. I'm already over there so I'll be sure to say hi. If not, it's publicly available for your lurking pleasure.

 

[LostintheCycle]

While their Discord will continue, the goal is to: "scale down the Discord server's scope and migrate the bulk of community discussion to the Discourse".

 

[Eden]

Kek. Indeed. Still, fact remains that the 32-Bit Cafe is NOT the Yesterweb. For better, or for worse? Time always tells...

 

[vulonkaaz]

Overdue for an update but here's a simple, direct one:

The 32-Bit Cafe (@xandra) is officially trying to expand its primary community hub beyond Discord (quite wisely, imo), and has, as of today, officially opened up to the general public: The 32-Bit Cafe Discourse

While their Discord will continue, the goal is to: "scale down the Discord server's scope and migrate the bulk of community discussion to the Discourse".

If the Small Web is your jam, and their Communities Guidelines seem acceptable to you, consider signing-up. I'm already over there so I'll be sure to say hi. If not, it's publicly available for your lurking pleasure.

thats a good thing i guess, too bad they chose the absolute ugliest software to build their forum tho

 

[Eden]

thats a good thing i guess, too bad they chose the absolute ugliest software to build their forum tho

I will choose to (exclusively) praise their departure off Discord. And for what it's worth, I'm enjoying the Discourse.

 

[ZinRicky]

absolute ugliest software to build their forum

Whatever one chooses, it's always bad according to some people:

• phpBB is way overused;
• Flarum and Discourse are too modern;
• XenForo is closed-source and paid.

The best thing is to choose a thing, deploy the desired forum, and use it thoroughly. Otherwise, everybody would be stuck on Discord and >reddit

 

[vulonkaaz]

XenForo is closed-source and paid.

I always wondered how XenForo managed to actually become the industry standard for forums almost every single forum i find nowadays is based on it even tho it literally is a non-free software that cost money

i guess the software is just that good

 

[agoratoad]

this is a conversation I can get nerdy about. I've never heard of discourse until just now, but it looks worlds better than both Flarum and Xenforo, the other two "modern" choices. I think Agora is an example of the fact that you _can_ make Xenforo look unique and create some personality around the underlying software, but I still think big sites that use Xenforo (https://neogaf.com and https://resetera.com come to mind) look really generic and boring.

I only know of one site using Flaurm (https://sheepishpatio.net) and I think it's pleasant software, but I don't love the idea of there being one master list of threads categorized by "tags." It just feels wrong for a forum format and not what I'm used to, at least.

The ${language}BB sites can look super generic, but I think them being popular means you probably get more customization. But maybe I'm wrong, that's a total guess. https://posting.cool really made the software look great too.

So in short, Discourse looks cool. But the real option is to spent 2 years writing your own forum software. It's the optimal solution

 

[Regal]

• Flarum and Discourse are too modern;

Right. One of the goals was to incentivize people to move on from Discord which---famously, including on Agora---people have criticized the use of for these communities. So you need to use a forum that is modern to get people to switch over. There have been several people who have come forward saying they never joined because of Discord and are now happy to be part of the community with Discourse.

re:Yesterweb - The comparison isn't a surprise, but it isn't the same at all. Yesterweb's move to the forum was a disaster because it was a shift to a new purpose (political, anti-corpo activism). 32bit cafe's move to the forum is to refocus and improve on their same purpose (expressing themselves via websites).

 

[andreixyz]

People want what they created to be viewed, and probably viewed by as many people as possible. Social media makes that significantly easier.

I write for mysefl mostly. If there are more people that read it, fine. If not, that's it. I'll keep writing about the things I do/have/experience and anyone that's interested is more than welcome.

Getting an email saying: "I liked your article X" makes me more happy than knowing a post got 10k views (which doesn).

People need to learn that a personal website is personal, and doesn't need to bring in the numbers that Taylor Swift brought to instagram.

By the way, instagram, twitter and all other social media sites are unfortunately a necessary evil for some. Don't give them control of your data. Learn to POSSE.

 

[Punp]

I rewrote my website today. Please look at it and tell me I'm a valid person. Also how do I join the webring?

https://punp.neocities.org/

 

[Some_porcupine]

I rewrote my website today. Please look at it and tell me I'm a valid person. Also how do I join the webring?

https://punp.neocities.org/

oh you are not in? huh
here you go

Travelers of Agora Road Webring

voicedrew.xyz

 

[GENOSAD]

Oh! I remember seeing this thread but not posting in it because I felt I was too new at the time... Here you are, fellas:

genosadness
The Physnet

 

[Some_porcupine]

JA

DuÅ¡a,energia, metafyzika, atómy, Äastice,bunky,život,svet,pohľad na svet, nadhľad,myseľ

myyolo1999.blogspot.com

Some_porcupine:
i am done - they shadowbanned me - or idk - i have and can see my web on editor - but no on internet - no cause given

(i moved it to bearblog or neocities (better))

> (they s-b-ed all my blogger sites, pages (not blogs tho)) - moved to my archive blog's web