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The Precariat and the Last Exit Before Violence

cynthiune

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This post is essentially just to document, and further archive this post I came across. I'm sure it's been mentioned before. I also did some basic editing & formatting to read it in a basic .txt document as well. I've included a download to that text document, as I feel like saving archives/jpgs of 4chan posts can be pretty messy, and slightly awkward to share and spread. Here you can easily copy and paste.

Original thread: https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/331461050/#331473473

Feel free to copy and paste the following in to some sort of text document, if this is something you agree with. And of course feel free to discuss in this thread. Posting the actual text in next post because agora road doesn't want me to post over 20,000 chars.

EDIT: I don't think anybody assumes this, but I wanted to be absolutely clear I did NOT write this. Just re-posting something a very smart anon wrote up.
 

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The Precariat and the Last Exit Before Violence
Anonymous ID:Cpcm1k62
Sun 25 Jul 2021 19:54:14 No.331461050

>The Precariat and the Last Exit Before Fascism

What causes revolutions? When does the violence start? To find the answer, study one group: Dissatisfied, angry young men. 100% of every revolution in human history was started by this cohort, and if you want to know how likely you are to have a revolution, ignore everything else and study the angry young men in your society. Why are they angry? How many of them are there? Do they communicate regularly? Do they have weapons? Are there political movements that address their grievances and defuse their anger, or are they mocked and shamed? Do they have a stake in society, and do they have incentives to maintain stability and keep things as they are? These are the questions you have to ask to know if landlords are about to get dragged out of their houses and shot. These are the questions you have to ask if you want to know if celebrities, academics, journalists, and politicians are about to be beaten, raped, stripped naked, and paraded through the streets. These are the questions you have to ask if you want to know when Jews are going to be genocided next. It's happened hundreds of times, dozens in the 20th century alone, and it's about to happen again, here in the USA. We are coming up on the final chance for a political solution to the USA's problems before we enter a full-blown, violent revolution. We have had multiple missed exits to political solutions to violence, which I will describe below.


>Missed Exit 1: the 99% and Occupy Wall Street


The first missed exit was in 2008-10, in the form of Occupy Wall Street. Young millennials protested the banking system and their exclusion from the normal avenues of building wealth and buying property. The OWS protesters didn't want handouts. They weren't calling for UBI or more welfare. They didn't want Latin American gibsmedat Venezosocialism. They simply wanted wages commensurate to the value of their labor, and a chance to buy and own a share of America: A slice of American land and a stake in American businesses. Milennials were the first American generation in living memory to have no hope whatsoever to own land and build wealth, and they knew it, and they protested. They wanted dignity. Instead, the banks got bailed out, and one of the largest wealth transfers from the middle class to the hyperwealthy took place.
OWS was not identitarian: It cut across lines of race, gender, etc., and it dissolved along these lines, as identity politics emerged to dismantle the movement. Progressive stacks, social justice, restorative justice, and white guilt were introduced: the 99% died immediately after, and actual class politics have never come back to mainstream discourse.


>Missed Exit 2: #MeToo


The next large left-wing movement was #MeToo, borne from GamerGate. Angry, dissatisfied young men of the millennial and zoomer generation, sick of being perpetually demonized as the villains of identity politics in their heretofore male spheres of gaming, as well as mainstream culture and (for zoomers) in classrooms and colleges started voicing their anger. #MeToo was the elite response, a broadside of thinly veiled managerial supremacism under the guise of feminism. #MeToo was exclusively bourgeois, exclusively moneyed, and incredibly politically influential. From 2015-2018, #MeToo accelerated the reconfiguration of American politics, journalism, media, culture, and the overton window of mainstream discourse. Identity politics was no longer just an obscure instrument to destroy class solidarity in OWS: It was now the official civil religion of the USA, a replacement for Christianity. No aspect of #MeToo addressed any kind of material inequality, wealth inequality, property ownership, land ownership, or other traditional popular concerns. Around this time, the word 'populist' became a pejorative: a perfect summation of the total capture of leftwing politics by wealthy, whitecollar, sanctimonious, and overwhelmingly female managers.

#MeToo was exclusively concerned with superstructural minutiae, tone-policing, editorial decisions of fantasy novels, micro-aggressions, and policing the grey zones of human sexuality. Perhaps because of its astonishing vacuity and pettiness, it didn't last long. Leftwing politics soon pivoted to #BLM. Proof that #MeToo is entirely dead can be found everywhere: The 'Karen' meme is clearly a sexist disparagement of women, and is totally acceptable dinnertable conversation. Bill Cosby raped some 50 women, confessed, and walked a free man: There were no protests, and there was no vociferous objection. The "feminists" were silent, partly because they had nothing to say about the material world. Biden probably sexually harassed a woman or two: nobody cared. #MeToo was more successful in reducing the breast size of Japanese videogame characters than it was in creating any tangible improvement to the lives of Americans, male or female. And now, #MeToo, like OWS before it, is dead.


>Missed Exit 3: #BLM


BLM is the largest social movement in postwar American history and THE largest charity drive in American history – although nobody is quite sure where the billions of dollars of donations have gone, and interracial trust is at a historic low since the Civil Rights era. If #MeToo approximated a civil religion, BLM codified its doctrines in Critical Race Theory, complete with foreign missions (European football players kneeling to the new American God), prophets (Robin DiAngelo, Ibram Kendi, etc.), martyr saints (George Floyd, whose image is painted on the walls of every American city), castes (blacks at the top, whites and Asians at the bottom), and a motivated political party (the Biden administration). BLM's sister doctrine, Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion is a tithe that every organization, public and private, pays to the new religion. As with #MeToo before it, BLM is only nominally leftist, and as with #MeToo, it's overwhelmingly bourgeois, openly disdainful of the productive classes such as manual laborers, farmers, etc., who it openly mocks and despises. Cultural workers, teachers, and government or corporate bureaucrats are the heroes of BLM: farmers, oil field workers, and bricklayers are its deadly enemies.

BLM has no plan whatsoever for fixing the wealth gap, land ownership, or public stakes in businesses: it's primarily concerned with openly anti-empirical police and educational policies, which dramatically fail every time they're implemented. Conveniently, BLM is also strictly opposed to objective measurement and accountability, a sensible orientation that may allow it to endure for a year or two more than it would otherwise. Critical Race Theory is fundamentally a faith-based doctrine: facts don't matter, only spiritual virtue, admissions of guilt, and celebrations of the Word. Unsurprisingly, the old Atheist intelligentsia that castrated Christianity for young millennials -Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, et al - absolutely loathe CRT. Presumably once people start realizing that defunding the police massively increases rape and murder rates and that abolishing standardized testing doesn't improve black literacy, there will be a backlash. From the public perspective, the best aspect of BLM is a typical Latin-American style """socialism""" based on demanding a vastly expanded government bureaucracy to give welfare and handouts to an elect class of professional victims. Even in this regard, it appears to have partially failed: Blacks are no better off than before #BLM, likely due to the extremely corrupt grifters in charge of the treasury of the organization.
BLM has, however, successfully increased the proportion of white-collar managers and nonproductive workers in every institution, and in this regard is a resounding triumph for the managerial elite. Back in 2000, boomers used to joke: "You'll never get a job with your degree in comparative African lesbian basket weaving". The average DEI officer earns $122,000, around four times more than what an average blue-collar, productive worker earns. Is the joke funny now? Are you laughing?


>Sex and stable societies


Stable societies have to find a way to pacify young men, for the abovementioned reason that young men are THE only known cause of violent revolutions. If you piss off enough young men, your civilization doesn't survive. Throughout history, countries have found different ways of doing this: empires typically send their young men off to conquer foreign land – this is what the British did, and what the Japanese did after the Rice Riots of the early 20th century. Send the angry young guys to kill foreigners and take some land for themselves. Modern, non-colonial nation states don't usually have this option. They have to calm the guys down another way.
One traditional way is marriage. Get the guys married, ideally in a 1:1 ratio, and things calm down a lot. Polygamy typically creates unstable societies: look at the constant strife in the middle east as an example. If 3 guys out of 4 can't get a wife, expect constant violence, suicide bombings, etc. Similarly, noncommittal relationships tend to be associated with very high rates of violence. Look at the West African matriarchal societies, where men don't stay with their pregnant partners, and instead form rotating circus of bandits, rapists, and murderers. These societies never invented the wheel, the plough, the sail, or a written script, and today enjoy the highest rape and murder rates on the planet. This is almost certainly because of the constant havoc caused by angry, unanchored, deracinated, alienated men, none of whom had fathers. Tragically, this pattern that has been nearly-identically reproduced in black communities in Baltimore, East St. Louis, Detroit, etc.; communities that BLM is conspicuously silent about, because BLM is a managerial project for increasing the number of white-collar administrators in public and private institutions, NOT a project to improve the lives of black people.

Increasingly, young men in the USA don't marry, don't have sex, and don't have girlfriends. Over 40% of zoomer males have never had sexual intercourse. The median age of the cohort is 21. This is historically unprecedented. Women have a calming and pacifying effect on males, even on the biological level; cohabiting with a partner lowers your testosterone and drastically decreases your violent crime rate. But young men in the USA aren't doing that.
Settling down with a woman requires resources. It requires a stake in society. It requires a slice of American land. For millennials and zoomers, this is close to impossible. The chance that you marry increases massively if you own property. The chance that you have children increases massively too. The inability of young men to buy property is directly causing their failure to have long-term partners and children. Guys who 40 years ago would have been doing DIY, building a front porch, volunteering at the local church, and helping raise their kids, are today spending their nights ranting about the Jews on 4Chan. If you are concerned about the possibility of a violent revolution, this development should alarm you. OWS touched on this issue, but the two major "leftist" political movements, #MeToo and #BLM, have not even obliquely addressed this problem. In the case of #MeToo, male success and wellbeing is probably directly antithetical to the movement's stated objectives (inasmuch as they ever relate to material reality, which is rare).


>Pacifying Young Men


The USA has developed a new solution to pacifying young men that does not depend on marriage, children, love, community, business ownership, or ownership of a little plot of land to call their own. The new solution is drugs, pornography, videogames, junk food, and social media. So far, it appears to have worked to sedate the young men. Even the angriest young men are so physically unfit from their sedentary lifestyles and corn-syrup diets that the chances of them forming a cohort of red guards and door-to-door murdering landlords is vanishingly slim. They're much more likely to smoke a blunt, eat some froot loops, and watch Rick and Morty. But how long can this passivity last? Are we kicking the can down the road, or have we finally found a way to permanently stop violent revolutions? Is this what Francis Fukuyama called the 'end of history'? Will Zoomer males, totally iced out of land ownership and business ownership be content with subscription-service *everything*, spending their lives as perpetual, sexless tenants, receiving government UBI stipends which get funneled instantly into the pockets of a hedge fund megalandlord and online pornography purveyors? Is Ready Player One the perfect image of the immediate future? Are corn syrup, Nintendo, porn, and weed the ultimate technology in preventing Mao Zedong or Adolf Hitler from rising again? It's very hard to tell, not least because exactly 0 good-faith sociologists are examining what is going on in all-male spaces and male culture. We simply have no idea how close we are to a Bolshevik revolution. It might happen tomorrow.


>Land Ownership and Violence


If you had an average salary in 2020, and saved every single spare penny you had, by the end of the year you were *further* from purchasing the average residential home than you were at the start of the year. You played by the rules, you scrimped and saved, and you were FURTHER from the American dream. This is obscene. This should be the top, and possibly the only, news story in our country. It is the largest problem we face as a civilization. Failure to solve this problem WILL lead to mass-murder, rape, and the total destruction of our civilization. Instead, the news gives us stories about how it's racist that Naomi Osaka (net worth: ~$60,000,000) is forced to give interviews, and candid discussions about how much racism is faced by the British Royal family (net worth: $???bn) and Oprah (net worth: $2.7 bn).

Here's an excerpt from an online forum popular with zoomer males: "I'm going to own a house by the time I'm 40. If I can't afford it, I'll fucking take it. I'll shoot someone and take their fucking house. I'm an American, and I'm going to own a piece of America. My ancestors killed and took land. If I can't buy it legally, I'll do the fucking same. Fuck Black Rock Capital. Fuck the government. Fuck my faggot kike landlord and his bitch of a wife. I'm not a rentcuck." How many young men feel the same way? Do they speak to each other? How many more politically peaceful chances do we have to avoid them enacting this fantasy? Do wealthy Americans of the managerial class understand that there are increasingly angry, deracinated, alienated young men with absolutely no incentive to maintain society as it is? The CIA, FBI, and NSA have identified angry young men as the #1 terrorist threat to the USA. You should listen. Unfortunately, the proposed solutions are, inevitably, of the managerial type: we need more censors, more anti-bias training, more government spying, more anti-racist educators, more control over publishing, more scrutiny of social media, more shaming of young men, more language policing. None of these solutions make even passing reference to why males are angry. Who cares? Will these solutions work?


>Demography of Violence


You may think that I'm exclusively talking about the bete noire of American politics, the dreaded White Male. Soon, that won't be true. Over 50% of under-18's in the USA are Hispanic. As of 2021, the median age of Hispanics is 11. In less than a decade, a colossal cohort of young, low-net-worth, low-education young males are going to begin adulthood. Their parents usually married and settled down. The younger generation of Hispanics do not. They don't marry, they don't have kids, they don't own businesses, and they don't own property. Will they be satisfied with a future of perpetual tenancy to non-hispanic landlords, compounded by their humiliating cultural inferiority to the non-hispanic white population? Will they peacefully lay down and accept their fate? The best outcome is a descent into constant low-level violence, as we see in Columbia, Mexico, etc. The more likely outcome is an actual revolution as young men from this cohort decide to take what they want. If working doesn't get you anywhere, what kind of an imbecile works? Americans tend to think of everything in racial terms, but I'm suspicious. I imagine that the first step towards violence will involve rural whites, urban blacks, and 2nd generation Hispanics setting aside their differences and torching country clubs. Little wonder that identity politics is so enthusiastically endorsed by politicians and elites! They're absolutely right: At this point in history, actual cross-racial solidarity will almost certainly lead to a violent revolution. If white young men and black young men realize that their enemies are landlords, hedge fund managers, and the politicians who protect them – well, if that happens, I hope you've stocked up on ammunition, and that you don't have too many frail dependants.
 
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cynthiune

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>Conclusion and recommendations


I encourage you to take a glance at the Chinese anti-rightist campaign, the Chinese Land Reform movement, or Soviet dekulakization. Check out Pol Pot's Year Zero. When young men get angry, get together, and put on armbands, truly remarkable changes start to happen to society. If #MeToo is a concern, please understand that mass-rape is a mandatory component of revolutions, with no exceptions. If #BLM is your concern, please understand that racial genocides are a component of revolutions, with few exceptions. I would encourage the intellectual and managerial elite to stop trying to find innovative ways to be remunerated for non-productive labor, stop focusing on virtue and culture, and instead start worrying about material reality. Worry about property ownership, about who owns this country, and about what is going to happen if we don't spread the wealth a little more equitably. UBI and fractional increases of the peanut wages won't do the trick. I'm talking about land ownership. You should also worry about what exactly zoomer males are thinking and feeling.

I'm not a cynic or an empty critic. I have suggestions. If violence is to be averted, I believe that politicians must address the following:

- Facilitate residential property ownership by US citizens. Every American should be able to own a piece of America.
- Inhibit mega-landlords and absentee landlords. They are the direct, proximate cause of nearly every revolution in human history.
- Inhibit hedge funds and banks from speculating in residential property.
- Inhibit foreigners from purchasing US land; ideally forbid it entirely.
- Engage in good-faith conversations about immigration that are not centered on racism. Increasing the supply of labor decreases wages. Increasing the supply of tenants increases rents and house prices. Foreigners are less likely to unionize. These are cogent, left-wing concerns, and smearing all discussion about immigration as racist is not productive.
- Discourage identity politics. Poor blacks and poor whites have more in common than poor whites have with rich whites. Ditto women and men. Class politics has to be endorsed again.
- Avoid welfare-bureaucracy-handout/ UBI style socialism. This is the Latin American model, and it's historically disastrous. Cuba, Venezuela, Columbia, etc. have experimented with it, and it always fails. Left wing politics should focus on the wealth gap and ownership. The general public should own their own home, have a stake in their business, and have a stake in their community. A nation of government-dependent tenants WILL be violently unstable. History proves this.
- Stop shaming the poor ('hillbillies', 'hicks', 'rednecks', 'flyover country', etc.). The left wing MUST stand up for the poor. The elite, hypereducated capture of the left is utterly, disastrously toxic. It prevents us from solving the problems that threaten social stability.
- Encourage real-life social institutions. The abandonment and disenfranchisement from society is disastrous. Humans of all genders need social community in the physical realm.

Respecting young men may be difficult, but at least fear them. Understand that they do, to a real extent, hold a gun to the head of your civilization. It is young men who decide if we have a Great Leap Forward or a Dekulakization or a Kristallnacht. Ideally, encourage young men to have a settled stake in society by offering them prestige and respect for doing the right thing. At the very least, appreciate the fact that every civilization is in a hostage situation, and it is ultimately the young men who decide if we have mass-rapes and genocide or if we have white-picket fences and golden retrievers. You may not like it, you may hate it, but you must understand it.


 
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Good read. Thanks for sharing.
 
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SolidStateSurvivor

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Clearly there has been something wrong with young American men. Lone wolf attacks on public gatherings (schools via attendees especially) have remained a staple. At times I have felt uneasy at public events knowing that they are a soft target. But nobody is really achieving anything with these attacks, it's misdirected anger towards innocent people suffering from the same circumstances outside of their control. People are lashing out at their surroundings, but with no directive. Those in power aren't going to care or change their ways when it is just the under classmen catching bullets. Aside from some legitimately far gone schizos and glowies, most of these tragedies are carried out by mentally ill young men. A lot of the factors OP describes are pushing them to a breaking point where they say "fuck it." Social media induced radicalization and involuntary celibacy play a role in this as well, as OP states.

In regards to the state of sex/sexuality (and do not take what I say the wrong way) I think the rise of youths identifying as LGBT is another indication of societal decline. This is not to imply that there is something inherently wrong with being gay, or that their open practice of their sexuality responsible for ruining society. I mainly bring this up because it reminds me of John Calhoun's mice utopia experiment, where mice were over populated/crowded and under supplied with resources and living space. A minority of alpha male rats would claim harems of females, while subordinate male rats would also sexually submit to the alpha males, or get their sexual release through other subordinate males. Studies have shown that the rise of dating apps, which expedite the process of finding sexual partners, have lead to a disparity in the amount of young men having sex. A young man is no longer just competing with others in his immediate surroundings/town anymore, now he is competing with a top percentage of alphas from around the state or even a country. Calhoun's study also notated that the subordinate males would frequently lash out at other mice in their surroundings (see my first paragraph.) While this take is controversial, I do feel a lot of young men are choosing to go LGBT because they are unable to court the opposite sex or have no other community to connect with.

But when OP writes about tools of pacification, it feels like the elites are botching that, particularly when it comes to entertainment. To steal a line that OP wrote, "it's overwhelmingly bourgeois, openly disdainful of the productive classes [...] who it openly mocks and despises." Or to use a buzzword, mainstream entertainment has gone "woke." I've written about this before, but it feels like entertainment is contributing to a sense of disenfranchisement among people. I'm sure at this point we all have had a franchise, be it a film, movie, or game, alienate you, a core fan, at the expense of explicitly pushing a political ideology while dumbing everything down for a "normie" audience. The quality has declined, and one has tuned out. While video games at least have a prominent indie scene to cater to hobbyists, the same can't be said of film and television.

I'm really surprised that OP didn't touch on January 6th at all. The Capitol riot may have only amounted to aimless chaos, but I think it perfectly encapsulated the anger of the working class with those in charge because the rulers are weirdo/rich ivy leaguers. But the commoners will never be able to invoke any true change if they keep looking to the mainstream political party candidates/voting as a solution. Even if it is misdirected anger, that lingering feeling of rage is there. People are out for blood now that basic resources like land and free speech are being denied, not to mention the outrageous prices for even fucking food now. This is why I feel the US will lie its way into fighting Russia (RMS Lusitania tactics anyone? Mostly peaceful arms deals ammirite?) what better way to pacify the young men by getting them all killed fighting for a conflict that has nothing to deal with them?
The elites all have plans to survive should the conflict go apocalyptic, the question is "Do you have the ability to enact righteous justice towards them in the aftermath?"
 
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People are out for blood now that basic resources like land and free speech are being denied, not to mention the outrageous prices for even fucking food now.
I hope people actually feel this way. I feel like a lot of young zoomer men nowadays don't give a shit about free speech or owning land. I don't know how true that is. I'm in my mid 20's so i have no idea what kids today are thinking. More young men need to be fucking angry about this.
 
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I hope people actually feel this way. I feel like a lot of young zoomer men nowadays don't give a shit about free speech or owning land. I don't know how true that is. I'm in my mid 20's so i have no idea what kids today are thinking. More young men need to be fucking angry about this.
I have been since my teens but most of the guys I know don't care. I can no longer talk to them because of this. I had a former friend of mine break down screaming over video games and I simply cannot tolerate it. To be angry over video games in your mid 20s is simply something I cannot begin to understand. Most of them are stuck in this permanent adolescent state of identity experimentation and I just can't do it anymore. Problem for me is what exactly to do about it.
 

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I doubt a revolution will ever happen here. Our quality of life will just continue to slowly decline until we're reduced to serfs.
Serfdom traditionally leads to revolution

In regards to the state of sex/sexuality (and do not take what I say the wrong way) I think the rise of youths identifying as LGBT is another indication of societal decline. This is not to imply that there is something inherently wrong with being gay, or that their open practice of their sexuality responsible for ruining society. I mainly bring this up because it reminds me of John Calhoun's mice utopia experiment, where mice were over populated/crowded and under supplied with resources and living space. A minority of alpha male rats would claim harems of females, while subordinate male rats would also sexually submit to the alpha males, or get their sexual release through other subordinate males. Studies have shown that the rise of dating apps, which expedite the process of finding sexual partners, have lead to a disparity in the amount of young men having sex. A young man is no longer just competing with others in his immediate surroundings/town anymore, now he is competing with a top percentage of alphas from around the state or even a country. Calhoun's study also notated that the subordinate males would frequently lash out at other mice in their surroundings (see my first paragraph.) While this take is controversial, I do feel a lot of young men are choosing to go LGBT because they are unable to court the opposite sex or have no other community to connect with.
I see what you're trying to say, and I generally agree. And don't worry, it's not offensive. The mere fact that people have to feel like they are walking on eggshells just to say anything negative about aspects of the LGBT community is insane, there's plenty wrong with it, and anyone paying attention can see how broken the movement is.

In my opinion (as someone who has been close to the gay community and watched the decline first hand), the moment it went from being genuinely underprivileged and oppressed men (and also women but tbh lesbians have never really been oppressed) with a goal to gain the same rights and protections as everyone, to an identitarian "pride" movement, the core of the movement has been lost. Back at the Stonewall riots and in the 70's and 80's during the height of the gay rights era, gay men from basically all walks of life, all races, etc, were largely in the same predicament and were able to organize very well, make reasonable and respectable criticism of the status quo, and gain the respect of the general populace, which allowed them to effectively win acceptance. Now that the primary goal is achieved, the movement is all about social justice, drag queens, internal drama, worshipping celebrities (which is the WORST thing ever because most "gay icon" celebrities only give the movement lip service at most), and demanding certain political advantages like forcing random bakeries to bake wedding cakes as a stunt (mark my words, that case had nothing to do with discrimination and everything to do with enforcing compliance).

I feel that this shift has actually significantly reduced the respect the movement had built up and is actively contributing to the more recent rise in homophobia that I have been noticing since about 2015. And I don't mean "When I said I had a partner, they assumed I had a girlfriend, which upset me" and other bullshit that passes for "homophobia" these days, I mean angry people who consider gays nothing but sexual degenerates who destroy society and the family. I don't even entirely blame them for having these opinions - there's a reason why the general perception is that gay men are largely whiney degenerates who endlessly bitch about how the word "faggot" is akin to violence. This is exactly the perception the LGBT movement fosters and deliberately gives a voice to. There are plenty of gays with more reasonable opinions who are ignored. Regular, everyday people, trying to work hard, mind their own business, and find their version of the white picket fence, but they are actively criticized for "being on the wrong side of history", or worse, actively shunned from the movement, disinvited to events, even locked out of the dating scene, leaving them alone and without support simply for being conservative or trying to engage with society in a healthy way. Just look at what they did to Milo Yiannopolis - a relatively normal conservative. The only controversial thing about him was that he was gay, and thus wasn't towing the line and adopting the "correct" opinions, so they disposed of him, and in a much more harsh way than they do with other conservative talking heads.

Because of this polarization, more and more young people are associating with the movement purely for the perceived benefits - nowhere is this more true than in the trans movement, which has absolutely exploded in membership recently, and with real-world, tangible benefits for people who play along. It's also a double edged sword - not only do you get rewarded for participating, you get punished for actively not participating, so it has created this environment where identifying as bi or trans is a very good mechanism for gaining social capital, getting extra opportunities (especially jobs from companies that are desperate to fill a "diversity quota"), and generally being untouchable when it comes to criticism. Celebrities like Bruce Jenner can even use being trans as a way to escape murder charges. Given this environment, why wouldn't more and more youths identify as whatever they need to in order to gain an advantage? Of course, this will also further divide people and result in even more hatred from people who know what's going on.

All of this bullshit seems to me like it will have dire consequences. When the angry men rise up and start the revolution, these fake, degenerate gays will have left such a bad impression (as will anyone who has basically dragged down everyday working class men for political power) that I feel we will see a purge of otherwise mostly innocent gays, all because some degenerate idiots fucked it up for everyone. It didn't have to be this way. It could have stopped at mutual respect and a "live and let live" policy, but they had to get greedy and abuse it for personal gain, and now it's going to get everyone killed, or at the very least, regress things back to before the gay rights movement started.

I am already seeing a trend where people hold their tongue or go quiet in any sort of political discussion when they know gays are present, because of the very real threat they face if they say the wrong thing or share the wrong opinion. It's absolutely toxic and I can see why it's going to end horribly as a result.

The truly based position is to not care at all if you offend the LGBT community. Speak your mind and NEVER apologize. Some degenerates will always get offended by everything. If they kick up a fuss, just call them a faggot and move on, because I can promise you most gays can't stand them either.

the TL;DR is that people aren't joining LGBT because they can't get with women. I doubt the vast majority of straight men would be interested in men even if no women were available. I believe it's mostly political. People want advantage, and a free ride, so they play pretend to reap the benefits. There's probably also a number of bi men who have a preference for women, who would normally "blend in" with regular society, but because all the average-decent women are only interested in gigachads on dating apps, they only have the slim pickings of the extremely low quality women, so they instead go with the "less preferred" male option to find a worthwhile partner, and have to engage with the gay community to do so.
 
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Fascinating read, as I myself didn't even know i was part of a social class i wasn't aware of, since i tend to live in my own bubble. Thank you very much.
 
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Moon-Watcher777

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This post is essentially just to document, and further archive this post I came across. I'm sure it's been mentioned before. I also did some basic editing & formatting to read it in a basic .txt document as well. I've included a download to that text document, as I feel like saving archives/jpgs of 4chan posts can be pretty messy, and slightly awkward to share and spread. Here you can easily copy and paste.

Original thread: https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/331461050/#331473473

Feel free to copy and paste the following in to some sort of text document, if this is something you agree with. And of course feel free to discuss in this thread. Posting the actual text in next post because agora road doesn't want me to post over 20,000 chars.
Thanks for sharing. I have read this thread before and it is one of my favorite. Really sums up our current political climate. One thing the extreme left and the alt right have in common, is the repressed desire to burn this shit to the ground and start anew. Revolution is inevitable at this point. How much people will put up with and for how long is the only question.

560F9145-1CD2-44A9-8779-5982ED254264.jpeg
 
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cynthiune

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Serfdom traditionally leads to revolution


I see what you're trying to say, and I generally agree. And don't worry, it's not offensive. The mere fact that people have to feel like they are walking on eggshells just to say anything negative about aspects of the LGBT community is insane, there's plenty wrong with it, and anyone paying attention can see how broken the movement is.

In my opinion (as someone who has been close to the gay community and watched the decline first hand), the moment it went from being genuinely underprivileged and oppressed men (and also women but tbh lesbians have never really been oppressed) with a goal to gain the same rights and protections as everyone, to an identitarian "pride" movement, the core of the movement has been lost. Back at the Stonewall riots and in the 70's and 80's during the height of the gay rights era, gay men from basically all walks of life, all races, etc, were largely in the same predicament and were able to organize very well, make reasonable and respectable criticism of the status quo, and gain the respect of the general populace, which allowed them to effectively win acceptance. Now that the primary goal is achieved, the movement is all about social justice, drag queens, internal drama, worshipping celebrities (which is the WORST thing ever because most "gay icon" celebrities only give the movement lip service at most), and demanding certain political advantages like forcing random bakeries to bake wedding cakes as a stunt (mark my words, that case had nothing to do with discrimination and everything to do with enforcing compliance).

I feel that this shift has actually significantly reduced the respect the movement had built up and is actively contributing to the more recent rise in homophobia that I have been noticing since about 2015. And I don't mean "When I said I had a partner, they assumed I had a girlfriend, which upset me" and other bullshit that passes for "homophobia" these days, I mean angry people who consider gays nothing but sexual degenerates who destroy society and the family. I don't even entirely blame them for having these opinions - there's a reason why the general perception is that gay men are largely whiney degenerates who endlessly bitch about how the word "faggot" is akin to violence. This is exactly the perception the LGBT movement fosters and deliberately gives a voice to. There are plenty of gays with more reasonable opinions who are ignored. Regular, everyday people, trying to work hard, mind their own business, and find their version of the white picket fence, but they are actively criticized for "being on the wrong side of history", or worse, actively shunned from the movement, disinvited to events, even locked out of the dating scene, leaving them alone and without support simply for being conservative or trying to engage with society in a healthy way. Just look at what they did to Milo Yiannopolis - a relatively normal conservative. The only controversial thing about him was that he was gay, and thus wasn't towing the line and adopting the "correct" opinions, so they disposed of him, and in a much more harsh way than they do with other conservative talking heads.

Because of this polarization, more and more young people are associating with the movement purely for the perceived benefits - nowhere is this more true than in the trans movement, which has absolutely exploded in membership recently, and with real-world, tangible benefits for people who play along. It's also a double edged sword - not only do you get rewarded for participating, you get punished for actively not participating, so it has created this environment where identifying as bi or trans is a very good mechanism for gaining social capital, getting extra opportunities (especially jobs from companies that are desperate to fill a "diversity quota"), and generally being untouchable when it comes to criticism. Celebrities like Bruce Jenner can even use being trans as a way to escape murder charges. Given this environment, why wouldn't more and more youths identify as whatever they need to in order to gain an advantage? Of course, this will also further divide people and result in even more hatred from people who know what's going on.

All of this bullshit seems to me like it will have dire consequences. When the angry men rise up and start the revolution, these fake, degenerate gays will have left such a bad impression (as will anyone who has basically dragged down everyday working class men for political power) that I feel we will see a purge of otherwise mostly innocent gays, all because some degenerate idiots fucked it up for everyone. It didn't have to be this way. It could have stopped at mutual respect and a "live and let live" policy, but they had to get greedy and abuse it for personal gain, and now it's going to get everyone killed, or at the very least, regress things back to before the gay rights movement started.

I am already seeing a trend where people hold their tongue or go quiet in any sort of political discussion when they know gays are present, because of the very real threat they face if they say the wrong thing or share the wrong opinion. It's absolutely toxic and I can see why it's going to end horribly as a result.

The truly based position is to not care at all if you offend the LGBT community. Speak your mind and NEVER apologize. Some degenerates will always get offended by everything. If they kick up a fuss, just call them a faggot and move on, because I can promise you most gays can't stand them either.

the TL;DR is that people aren't joining LGBT because they can't get with women. I doubt the vast majority of straight men would be interested in men even if no women were available. I believe it's mostly political. People want advantage, and a free ride, so they play pretend to reap the benefits. There's probably also a number of bi men who have a preference for women, who would normally "blend in" with regular society, but because all the average-decent women are only interested in gigachads on dating apps, they only have the slim pickings of the extremely low quality women, so they instead go with the "less preferred" male option to find a worthwhile partner, and have to engage with the gay community to do so.
Fascinating perspective. Thanks.

Thanks for sharing. I have read this thread before and it is one of my favorite. Really sums up our current political climate. One thing the extreme left and the alt right have in common, is the repressed desire to burn this shit to the ground and start anew. Revolution is inevitable at this point. How much people will put up with and for how long is the only question.
Makes me think how many people are actually out there just waiting quietly for the shooting to start. How many people will ACTUALLY come out of the woodwork
 
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I should probably that there is one problem with that post. The idea that the middle-east is unstable due to polygamy is simply not true as polygramy is actually relatively rare in that part of the world. It is most common in sub-saharan Africa (and religion has very little impact on it). The middle-east is rather unstable because it was screwed up economically and politically. Violence in countries like Libya and and Iraq were incredibly low under Saddam and Gaddafi respectively. Violence is also not a big issue in Iran. That being said people not being able to reproduce is usually a big pusher of violence, yes.
 

SolidStateSurvivor

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I hope people actually feel this way. I feel like a lot of young zoomer men nowadays don't give a shit about free speech or owning land. I don't know how true that is. I'm in my mid 20's so i have no idea what kids today are thinking. More young men need to be fucking angry about this.
I think the average zoomer, and even millennial, is well aware of how fucked everything is. For as much as people like to shit on millennials, you have to remember they've endured the consequences of 9/11, the 2008 recession, an overhyped pandemic, and whatever fuckery is looming now during the most pivitol moments of starting off into adulthood. Only the most sedated, or those living off of daddy's money, are out of touch or too busy bothering with the divisive "social justice" causes OP described. I also suspect the reason you see these social movements get so popular is because of all the children of these well off boomers who got sent off to college (because that's the thing you're supposed to do, according to boomers) electing to study some bullshit degree like feminist theory. And those classes are mainly just indoctrination/bias reaffirming in their purpose.

Serfdom traditionally leads to revolution


I see what you're trying to say, and I generally agree. And don't worry, it's not offensive. The mere fact that people have to feel like they are walking on eggshells just to say anything negative about aspects of the LGBT community is insane, there's plenty wrong with it, and anyone paying attention can see how broken the movement is.

In my opinion (as someone who has been close to the gay community and watched the decline first hand), the moment it went from being genuinely underprivileged and oppressed men (and also women but tbh lesbians have never really been oppressed) with a goal to gain the same rights and protections as everyone, to an identitarian "pride" movement, the core of the movement has been lost. Back at the Stonewall riots and in the 70's and 80's during the height of the gay rights era, gay men from basically all walks of life, all races, etc, were largely in the same predicament and were able to organize very well, make reasonable and respectable criticism of the status quo, and gain the respect of the general populace, which allowed them to effectively win acceptance. Now that the primary goal is achieved, the movement is all about social justice, drag queens, internal drama, worshipping celebrities (which is the WORST thing ever because most "gay icon" celebrities only give the movement lip service at most), and demanding certain political advantages like forcing random bakeries to bake wedding cakes as a stunt (mark my words, that case had nothing to do with discrimination and everything to do with enforcing compliance).

I feel that this shift has actually significantly reduced the respect the movement had built up and is actively contributing to the more recent rise in homophobia that I have been noticing since about 2015. And I don't mean "When I said I had a partner, they assumed I had a girlfriend, which upset me" and other bullshit that passes for "homophobia" these days, I mean angry people who consider gays nothing but sexual degenerates who destroy society and the family. I don't even entirely blame them for having these opinions - there's a reason why the general perception is that gay men are largely whiney degenerates who endlessly bitch about how the word "faggot" is akin to violence. This is exactly the perception the LGBT movement fosters and deliberately gives a voice to. There are plenty of gays with more reasonable opinions who are ignored. Regular, everyday people, trying to work hard, mind their own business, and find their version of the white picket fence, but they are actively criticized for "being on the wrong side of history", or worse, actively shunned from the movement, disinvited to events, even locked out of the dating scene, leaving them alone and without support simply for being conservative or trying to engage with society in a healthy way. Just look at what they did to Milo Yiannopolis - a relatively normal conservative. The only controversial thing about him was that he was gay, and thus wasn't towing the line and adopting the "correct" opinions, so they disposed of him, and in a much more harsh way than they do with other conservative talking heads.

Because of this polarization, more and more young people are associating with the movement purely for the perceived benefits - nowhere is this more true than in the trans movement, which has absolutely exploded in membership recently, and with real-world, tangible benefits for people who play along. It's also a double edged sword - not only do you get rewarded for participating, you get punished for actively not participating, so it has created this environment where identifying as bi or trans is a very good mechanism for gaining social capital, getting extra opportunities (especially jobs from companies that are desperate to fill a "diversity quota"), and generally being untouchable when it comes to criticism. Celebrities like Bruce Jenner can even use being trans as a way to escape murder charges. Given this environment, why wouldn't more and more youths identify as whatever they need to in order to gain an advantage? Of course, this will also further divide people and result in even more hatred from people who know what's going on.

All of this bullshit seems to me like it will have dire consequences. When the angry men rise up and start the revolution, these fake, degenerate gays will have left such a bad impression (as will anyone who has basically dragged down everyday working class men for political power) that I feel we will see a purge of otherwise mostly innocent gays, all because some degenerate idiots fucked it up for everyone. It didn't have to be this way. It could have stopped at mutual respect and a "live and let live" policy, but they had to get greedy and abuse it for personal gain, and now it's going to get everyone killed, or at the very least, regress things back to before the gay rights movement started.

I am already seeing a trend where people hold their tongue or go quiet in any sort of political discussion when they know gays are present, because of the very real threat they face if they say the wrong thing or share the wrong opinion. It's absolutely toxic and I can see why it's going to end horribly as a result.

The truly based position is to not care at all if you offend the LGBT community. Speak your mind and NEVER apologize. Some degenerates will always get offended by everything. If they kick up a fuss, just call them a faggot and move on, because I can promise you most gays can't stand them either.

the TL;DR is that people aren't joining LGBT because they can't get with women. I doubt the vast majority of straight men would be interested in men even if no women were available. I believe it's mostly political. People want advantage, and a free ride, so they play pretend to reap the benefits. There's probably also a number of bi men who have a preference for women, who would normally "blend in" with regular society, but because all the average-decent women are only interested in gigachads on dating apps, they only have the slim pickings of the extremely low quality women, so they instead go with the "less preferred" male option to find a worthwhile partner, and have to engage with the gay community to do so.
I'd say the issue with the LGBT/pride movement as of now is how openly hedonistic it has become. You see these images of extreme kinks on full display in public, and I think most people are going to adversely react to that, even if it doesn't reflect the majority. All it takes is a few rotten apples to spoil the bunch. It's not good PR for the average LGBT people who want to just live their lives equally and be left alone. Entertainment lazily hamfisting it into everything doesn't help either, it's not progressive, it's just pandering. Personally I think anyone who revolves their entire identity around something like their sexuality, political affiliation, job, etc is rather dull.

Fascinating perspective. Thanks.


Makes me think how many people are actually out there just waiting quietly for the shooting to start. How many people will ACTUALLY come out of the woodwork
There is a sizable amount of well armed people waiting for just that. Everyone is waiting to see who will fire the first shot. When it comes to this line of thinking, I feel the older generations want to be the ones who carry it out for revenge, and the younger generations just seem to want to watch the world burn out of spite. But could all just be talking tough, I don't think anyone is adequately prepared, nor understands the consequences, of what they're advocating for. But as the Summer of 2020 riots and January 6th have shown, law and order in the US is much more fragile than people realize.
download (16).jpeg

Most fail to realize politicians are mainly like middle management when it comes to this kind of stuff. Voting for establishment Republicans and Democrats is just picking your poison. Most are just affluent Ivy Leaguers to boot. But there are identifiable entities and elites working against the common man's interest, like BlackRock buying all the homes to line their pockets. And their owners/CEOs all have names and addresses too. :LeDoritoFace:
 
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Outer Heaven

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I take the exact opposite approach in saying that the will of the people never did nor ever will bring any real change to a system of government without the support of a group of elites. At the root of every revolution you will find a group of elites of some kind backing the winning side. This can be a military elite, financial elite, priestly elite, monarch or so on. Any revolution or populist movement without elite support has been eliminated without any exception throughout history. Growing discontent in the population means nothing if that population is disorganised and facing a smaller, more organised minority. This is all basic elite theory that people need to get into their heads. How many populist movements have we seen in our lifetime that just fizzle out when they rebel against the power structure? To take a system down, the current elites must relinquish their power out of incompetence or a counter elite must form to take them out. There are infinite examples to give but a few are the Bolshevik revolution, the protestant reformation, the failure of the trucker protests even more recently. The ones that worked had elite backing, the ones that didn't either had none or lost their elite backing over time.

Maybe I will make a whole thread to discuss this if enough people are interested. I'm too lazy to sit down for an hour and put proper work into the research and sources otherwise.
 
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cynthiune

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I take the exact opposite approach in saying that the will of the people never did nor ever will bring any real change to a system of government without the support of a group of elites. At the root of every revolution you will find a group of elites of some kind backing the winning side. This can be a military elite, financial elite, priestly elite, monarch or so on. Any revolution or populist movement without elite support has been eliminated without any exception throughout history. Growing discontent in the population means nothing if that population is disorganised and facing a smaller, more organised minority. This is all basic elite theory that people need to get into their heads. How many populist movements have we seen in our lifetime that just fizzle out when they rebel against the power structure? To take a system down, the current elites must relinquish their power out of incompetence or a counter elite must form to take them out. There are infinite examples to give but a few are the Bolshevik revolution, the protestant reformation, the failure of the trucker protests even more recently. The ones that worked had elite backing, the ones that didn't either had none or lost their elite backing over time.

Maybe I will make a whole thread to discuss this if enough people are interested. I'm too lazy to sit down for an hour and put proper work into the research and sources otherwise.
Yeah it's like once you reach the top of the mountain, what are you going to do with it? I understand, and a young, uneducated mass-revolt needs to have a very specific set of goals to work towards in doing this. Think thats a big reason why BLM and LGBT are going to fail. They have no end goal, they have no concrete list of demands, constitution, etc. There is no finish line, no line in the sand that has been drawn where they can say "Okay, we've done what we've set out to do" once they reach it. You defeat the enemy and go..."now what?"

This is another interesting conversation that I feel like deserves a thread and I'm sure many of us would be interested.
 
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SolidStateSurvivor

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I take the exact opposite approach in saying that the will of the people never did nor ever will bring any real change to a system of government without the support of a group of elites. At the root of every revolution you will find a group of elites of some kind backing the winning side. This can be a military elite, financial elite, priestly elite, monarch or so on. Any revolution or populist movement without elite support has been eliminated without any exception throughout history. Growing discontent in the population means nothing if that population is disorganised and facing a smaller, more organised minority. This is all basic elite theory that people need to get into their heads. How many populist movements have we seen in our lifetime that just fizzle out when they rebel against the power structure? To take a system down, the current elites must relinquish their power out of incompetence or a counter elite must form to take them out. There are infinite examples to give but a few are the Bolshevik revolution, the protestant reformation, the failure of the trucker protests even more recently. The ones that worked had elite backing, the ones that didn't either had none or lost their elite backing over time.

Maybe I will make a whole thread to discuss this if enough people are interested. I'm too lazy to sit down for an hour and put proper work into the research and sources otherwise.
The US Civil War is a good example as well. A bunch of poor southerners were fighting on behalf of the elite slave owning class trying to keep the status quo. As soon as the elite's wealth/livelihood was in jeopardy they got the ball rolling on succession. And while the southern troops outclassed northern troops in terms of kill to death ratio, the south lost partly because they had a hard time getting recruits. Even if there were southerners sympathetic to breaking from the Union, it was hard to get them to fight in a larger conflict, as they were more interested in their immediate surroundings/personal sovereignty.

Not sure if something similar could happen now in the US. Today's elites are much bigger and more global. Any serious effort would require local businesses/producers binding together to work against them, and even then these are not the type of companies that produce drones, tanks, etc.

The only rebellion that comes to my immediate mind that succeeded without the aid of elites was the Haitian slave revolt. Perhaps the French Revolution too? But I don't much about it to be honest.
 
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The US Civil War is a good example as well. A bunch of poor southerners were fighting on behalf of the elite slave owning class trying to keep the status quo. As soon as the elite's wealth/livelihood was in jeopardy they got the ball rolling on succession. And while the southern troops outclassed northern troops in terms of kill to death ratio, the south lost partly because they had a hard time getting recruits. Even if there were southerners sympathetic to breaking from the Union, it was hard to get them to fight in a larger conflict, as they were more interested in their immediate surroundings/personal sovereignty.

Not sure if something similar could happen now in the US. Today's elites are much bigger and more global. Any serious effort would require local businesses/producers binding together to work against them, and even then these are not the type of companies that produce drones, tanks, etc.

The only rebellion that comes to my immediate mind that succeeded without the aid of elites was the Haitian slave revolt. Perhaps the French Revolution too? But I don't much about it to be honest.
This is why I believe formation of a counter-elite is the best bet to solve these issues. Start acting outside of modern institutions in order to form a counter-elite with control over a large segment of the population. Such a movement is both relatively safe as well as effective. Do things like buy out land to live on or start forming neighbourhood level syndicates to try and claim as much control as possible.
 

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This is why I believe formation of a counter-elite is the best bet to solve these issues. Start acting outside of modern institutions in order to form a counter-elite with control over a large segment of the population. Such a movement is both relatively safe as well as effective. Do things like buy out land to live on or start forming neighbourhood level syndicates to try and claim as much control as possible.
If you want to form a counter elite you would have to take control of their institutions, not live outside of them.
 
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