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The Pro Russian Thread

Linkat

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If Vladimir Putin had stated he was doing this to challenge American/NATO control then I would be sporting a Russian flag right now. But he didn't. Instead he pursued a style of war from the 17th century. It's hard to throw support behind something that economic. However I refuse to support Ukraine as it is just an attempt and keeping the neocon dream alive. I simply don't care about what happens to Ukraine and rather just hope that NATO comes out of this weakened. The three countries leading the anti-western are China, Russia, and Iran. Of these I will only defend one. I despise China for its' pursuit of the western lifestyle and values. The only difference between us and China is that we have multi-party democracies and they are a single party state. China believes in transhumanism and unregulated markets. It believes in consumerism and destruction of traditional values. If not more so than the west. Russia is a mixed bag in so far as it has regulation, it has some amount of tradtional values still in place, and it has some amount of anti-consumerism. But Russia is closely associated with China which in turn skews them. It also still aspires to a lot of western standards (as it always has done). It's leaders have no real aspirations beyond that of money. Iran is the only one I consider to be good in so far as it is run to preserve Persian culture and enforces more tradtional values without straying into ISIS territory. It is (at least on the surface) a healthy society.
 
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If Vladimir Putin had stated he was doing this to challenge American/NATO control then I would be sporting a Russian flag right now. But he didn't. Instead he pursued a style of war from the 17th century.
It's a pretty well known fact that Putin's primary concern over Ukraine is, and has been, concern of having NATO potentially at his footstep. Since a sizable portion of Ukrainians (particularly those in west Ukraine) would love to join if they had the opportunity. The great tragedy of Ukraine is that it's always (both historically and in the present) caught in between Russia and the rest of Europe, oscillating like a game of tug of war from one county's influence or another's.
T. Ukrainian (on my Mom's side)
 
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Linkat

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It's a pretty well known fact that Putin's primary concern over Ukraine is, and has been, concern of having NATO potentially at his footstep. Since a sizable portion of Ukrainians (particularly those in west Ukraine) would love to join if they had the opportunity. The great tragedy of Ukraine is that it's always (both historically and in the present) caught in between Russia and the rest of Europe, oscillating like a game of tug of war from one county's influence or another's.
T. Ukrainian (on my Mom's side)
He over-emphasised the whole Slava Russia aspect. He appealed way too much to boomers nostalgic for the Soviet era. That's my major issue with his politics. He should have made it primarily about undermining NATO and for the purpose of freeing the wider world from American hegemony.
 
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Yakito

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I am not Pro-Russia, I just hate the EU and NATO.
China believes in transhumanism and unregulated markets. It believes in consumerism and destruction of traditional values.
Yes, the current cold war has even less cultural stakes than the previous one. At that point it's basically a competition between the two flavors of the same shit.
 
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He over-emphasised the whole Slava Russia aspect. He appealed way too much to boomers nostalgic for the Soviet era. That's my major issue with his politics. He should have made it primarily about undermining NATO and for the purpose of freeing the wider world from American hegemony.
Yeah, I mean he himself seems to be a boomer with a nostalgic hard-on for the Soviet era

Yes, the current cold war has even less cultural stakes than the previous one. At that point it's basically a competition between the two flavors of the same shit.
It's so depressing how true this is
 
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Linkat

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I am not Pro-Russia, I just hate the EU and NATO.

Yes, the current cold war has even less cultural stakes than the previous one. At that point it's basically a competition between the two flavors of the same shit.
Even during the cold war there wasn't that much at stake (at least culturally). Marxism is not a revolutionary ideology/philosophy. Marxism is primarily concerned with Capitalism's inability to further "human development" at a rapid enough rate. Communist countries were perhaps only somewhat more pro-social than here in western Europe. I spoke with people who lived in the Eastern Europe at the time and my parents all remarked that they had very similar cultures and ways of living. The cold war was never about fundamental differences in how a society should be run but rather about how change should come about. The Soviets believed that the best way to drive human development was through large scale planning of a society by scientists and experts (ringing any bells) and the west believed the best way was to allow for markets to change society at a slower pace. That was all it was about. Capitalism's ultimate promise is the same as that of Communism. A society so saturated with consumer crap that nothing has value and everyone can partake in the spoils of a nihilistic and narcissistic world. The Communism itself is a misnomer as there would be nothing communal about it. If everything is provided to you by a robot then what is the point of interaction on any level? The only reason the Soviets had any appeal was because of Stalin's rapid industrialisation of Russia. People saw that as proof that such a model for human development works. It died in the 1980s because the eastern bloc had fallen so far behind in technology that they could no longer proclaim the model to be superior.
 
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Yakito

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Capitalism's ultimate promise is the same as that of Communism.
Yes, this is an inconvenient truth. All the "muh economic" talks are meaningless when both system thinks that you are a soulless economic unit. If I was conspiratorial I would say masons and their friends made liberalism first and that succeeded to overthrow many western monarchies and when that failed communism was used a sledgehammer to destroy the remaining traditional societies.

I hear it being referred as the A-B test, to see which system will be viable to bring in the "new man". I think neo-liberalism is the clear winner so far. That doesn't believe in anything. it's like the anti-ideology.

It died in the 1980s because the eastern bloc had fallen so far behind in technology that they could no longer proclaim the model to be superior.
I would say that is a part, but the other thing is that the Soviets needed true believers. And all they had are materialists who could be bought out by the West. You need a higher ideal, so you won't be as easily corrupted by getting more money.
 

Linkat

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Yes, this is an inconvenient truth. All the "muh economic" talks are meaningless when both system thinks that you are a soulless economic unit. If I was conspiratorial I would say masons and their friends made liberalism first and that succeeded to overthrow many western monarchies and when that failed communism was used a sledgehammer to destroy the remaining traditional societies.

I hear it being referred as the A-B test, to see which system will be viable to bring in the "new man". I think neo-liberalism is the clear winner so far. That doesn't believe in anything. it's like the anti-ideology.


I would say that is a part, but the other thing is that the Soviets needed true believers. And all they had are materialists who could be bought out by the West. You need a higher ideal, so you won't be as easily corrupted by getting more money.
I personally believe Neo-Liberalism is dead at this point. The economic policies which guided were destroyed during the pandemic and now the state is a lot more involved. Don't think it will fix anything though as that money is mostly being used to prop up various industries. And yeah this is something that those East Germans I met talked about. They said they weren't happy when that system ended and to this day miss a lot of aspects about it but that they wanted the wall opened up solely to get western products in that the east couldn't produce. Either way Marxism cannot be trusted as a means to combat Capitalism.
 
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Yakito

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I personally believe Neo-Liberalism is dead at this point. The economic policies which guided were destroyed during the pandemic and now the state is a lot more involved. Don't think it will fix anything though as that money is mostly being used to prop up various industries. And yeah this is something that those East Germans I met talked about. They said they weren't happy when that system ended and to this day miss a lot of aspects about it but that they wanted the wall opened up solely to get western products in that the east couldn't produce. Either way Marxism cannot be trusted as a means to combat Capitalism.
I think the only way to effectively fight capitalism/marxism is to have organic communities. If you have atomized hordes, they are just data points in a spreadsheet. If you have people who organize along lines that are not purely economical and transactional, it is much harder to actually turn them into the mercenary mindsets.

I believe that any influence you have in the world, be it personal or group will be eventually filled up by others.
 

deepfreeze

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The problem with any centralized authority, economic or political, is that the experts it relies on are inevitably replaced by degenerate, nepotistic morons who seemingly can't be removed no matter how badly and repeatedly they fuck up. E.g.: Literally the entire Op-Ed section of the NYT
 
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Lonely_Ghost

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1650125605313.png
 
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You know this one has got to sting the Ruskies for sure. Its the flagship of the black sea. Allegedly they did some strikes on the factory that makes the missiles and somehow the ships triple defense system either wasn't activated or was poorly used. The ruskies will probably flatten Ukraine now.
 
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№56

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The Soviets believed that the best way to drive human development was through large scale planning of a society by scientists and experts (ringing any bells) and the west believed the best way was to allow for markets to change society at a slower pace.
There were also a significant number of Americans who decided that the best way to compete with the Russians was to swallow the same technocracy pill. Robert McNamara and his "whiz kids," the RAND Corporation, Herman Kahn, NASA, etc. Once both sides had ICBMs, the cold war conflict stopped being anything more than "my technocracy is better than your technocracy."
The Heavens and the Earth by Walter McDougall is a good book about this, although it is slightly outdated.
 
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Lonely_Ghost

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You know this one has got to sting the Ruskies for sure. Its the flagship of the black sea. Allegedly they did some strikes on the factory that makes the missiles and somehow the ships triple defense system either wasn't activated or was poorly used. The ruskies will probably flatten Ukraine now.
Not sure about flatten but they'll fucking try. On the other hand this may restore some of that low russian morale by giving them something to be actually mad about.
 
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cynthiune

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The Soviets believed that the best way to drive human development was through large scale planning of a society by scientists and experts (ringing any bells)
Had a surprised pikachu moment reading this sentence. Never made the comparison of soviet planning agencies(Gosplan) and...

"EXPERTS SAY"
"AND THIS IS A GOOD THING"
"FACT CHECKERS WEIGH IN"
"WHY YOU SHOULD BE TERRIFIED"
 
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Linkat

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Had a surprised pikachu moment reading this sentence. Never made the comparison of soviet planning agencies(Gosplan) and...

"EXPERTS SAY"
"AND THIS IS A GOOD THING"
"FACT CHECKERS WEIGH IN"
"WHY YOU SHOULD BE TERRIFIED"
Yes. Except here it's potentially worse as the Soviets never had the means to re-enforce certain forms of behaviour like today. They had TV and radio and that was it. The majority of the Soviet public viewed a lot of what the gov said with cynicism. Today however...
 
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Kameraad

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I am not Pro-Russia, I just hate the EU and NATO.

Yes, the current cold war has even less cultural stakes than the previous one. At that point it's basically a competition between the two flavors of the same shit.
Least based ankha enjoyer.
 
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NW_Cryptid

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At best this whole thread is a bad cringe joke, at worst it violates rule 4. No racist shit on here. This is not /pol/

but hey you probably don't give two shits about my opinions so I guess we'll all just ignore the blatant violations and batshit insane take that will continue to make Agora a laughing stock.
 
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IlluminatiPirate

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At best this whole thread is a bad cringe joke, at worst it violates rule 4. No racist shit on here. This is not /pol/

but hey you probably don't give two shits about my opinions so I guess we'll all just ignore the blatant violations and batshit insane take that will continue to make Agora a laughing stock.
Where is the racism?
 
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