The Psyop is Dead, Long Live the Psyop

[alCannium27]

I think everyone knows this would be the best system. The problem is how we manage to realiably get philosopher-kings into power instead of sophist-tyrants, but that's another kind of discussion.

The fact that they call for an aristocratic dictatorship shows two things: they never believed in democracy. and cannot fathom a scenario whereby their ascribed system(s) an produce tyrants, since it is infallible

Both points combined should prove their dellusions and

 

[Parzival]

Makes sense if you put it that way. But at the same time I don't know how sustainable it will truly be in the long run without institutionalised support if the public common sense turns against it. It truly feels to me as if we are seeing a paradigm shift. The most progressive movements of the boomer era like the hippies were forgotten and relegated to the past. Wonder if the whole "2010s/2020s don't have a defining character" is just wrong and we in the future will look back to those years as the woke era.
To draw further historical comparisons, and at the risk of sounding like "Orange man fascist"(which is not my intention at all), I think this thing could go the way of the Weimar Republic. In a very short time period Berlin went from the world's debauchery capital to it being the capital of the reaction against it. So it's not like drastic cultural whiplashes aren't historically documented.
I don't think Millenials will ever fully outgrow the more progressive liberal views, but Gen Z and younger could easily lean way harder into conservatism if pushed towards that. And that's the role social media plays in the formation of the younger generations. We are going through a transition period, the traditional media is aging with the older generations, and the "alternative" online social media, which we must remember is already fully meddled by social engineers and their bots/shills, seems to be leaning towards the new "common sense" that will be established in the coming decade.
Musk is involved with Donald Trump. We know social media is botted to hell and back, it will become much worse with an ever improving AI.
This is why to me it feels like we are heading towards a different paradigm. It really doesn't seem like we will get more of the same, for better or for worse.

You make a fair point, it's entirely possible whatifalthist's zoomer incel revolution will come to pass (I'm being a bit facetious but your are right that things could and have completely flipped like that before). I personally just think that while sure it may be losing some institutionalized support, what actually matters more is that it gets institutionalized hindrance, which I admit it may get- but while the hippies were largely forgotten and relegated to the past, quite a few of their ideas weren't, many in fact were carried on into today via "wokeism" largely because they they never faced all that much institutionalized hindrance. Again, it's possible that will happen, as while Trump himself is nowhere near as radical as the left tries to paint him- some of the things I've seen amongst the younger camp of the right wing are genuinely paradigm shifting if they get more popular. I know the internet's not real life, but I've never met anyone who actually wants reactionary philosopher god-kings before recent years- let alone a small but growing cadre of young men.

Until then though, I'm team nothing ever happens.

 

[Dead Star]

The problem is I think Western, or maybe just American, society has largely lost any sense of a common sense. You're right that the institutions are rotten and falling apart from the inside, and that complete control of the narrative is all but impossible for "them", but it's also become impossible for anyone. I don't think "wokeness" as it exists today will survive the decade, but the wokeness of today isn't entirely the same as the SJWness of a decade ago, even if they're talked about in the same breath. It'll change and evolve, specifically because there will be no authoritative control over it- if there ever even was. Sinaptica has kind of a point here, wokeness is a product of a certain historical and cultural milieus- as is the reaction to it that's taken the forms of the alt and now dissident right.

Most Americans don't give a shit about this stuff in the real world.

They work pay check to pay check. There is still a sense of individuality offline where people want to build their own life and do what they want. To many, that involves finding someone to marry so they aren't alone and starting a family. There is a huge divide between married people and those with families in politics compared to single and childless people. A lot of the pushback against the insane progressive ideas are coming from family types who see what goes on in the class rooms and they aren't a fan of gender ideology and all the other insanity.

Woke is dying because normal people rejected it. They didn't take kindly to being told that everything they enjoy has elements of racism and sexism in it. It's a new form of puritanism and America has dealt with many versions of this going all the way back to the early colonial days. Woke is the first version of it to spawn without religious elements, cause in itself is based on Marxist ideas that become religious in themselves.

 

[Parzival]

Most Americans don't give a shit about this stuff in the real world.

They work pay check to pay check. There is still a sense of individuality offline where people want to build their own life and do what they want. To many, that involves finding someone to marry so they aren't alone and starting a family. There is a huge divide between married people and those with families in politics compared to single and childless people. A lot of the pushback against the insane progressive ideas are coming from family types who see what goes on in the class rooms and they aren't a fan of gender ideology and all the other insanity.

Woke is dying because normal people rejected it. They didn't take kindly to being told that everything they enjoy has elements of racism and sexism in it. It's a new form of puritanism and America has dealt with many versions of this going all the way back to the early colonial days. Woke is the first version of it to spawn without religious elements, cause in itself is based on Marxist ideas that become religious in themselves.

The problem with this is that family formation is a slowly dying aspect of American society. Boomers are halfway out the door already and will vanish from the equation over the course of the 2030s, and while Xers are still largely family men and women, Millennials have a historically unprecedented contingent of their cohort that are not and subsequent generations seem poised to continue that trend. This does not bode well for fans of normalcy.

Otherwise though, I agree with your take, I just think that wokeness can never fully die unless its foundations die along with it. This means the entirety of the post-60s civil rights worldview and legal apparatus and some prior liberal progressive cultural and legal strides. Again, I know the internet isn't real life- BUT, I think it's clear now that so many people are on the internet (I think it always was clear but especially so now) that the internet is where real people come to express their true ideas, thoughts, and feelings, so seeing so many calls across the growing internet right for a repeal of the 19th amendment or destruction of the civil rights act, etc etc is an indication that as neoliberal capitalism continues to fail to usher in any new or even just hold onto previous prosperity and people get more desperate that people are getting more willing actually reject wokeism to it's core of liberal progressivism- the baby and the bath water- because elements of it, like Disparate Impact, Affirmative Action, and other such laws, have had it not just culturally but legally engrained for over half a century now in the US that there can be no alternative explanation for disparate outcomes in various aspects of life between different groups than racism and sexism, etc. The puritanism, or at most generous the seeds of it, has been there for longer than most of us have been alive. And as such many of us can't see that we were born and have been swimming in those waters the entire time. The cultural revolution can not simply end where we want it to though, and the "woke" were the process of that liberalism entering its next and perhaps final stage.

I don't think a lot of the people here are going to like what comes out of this rejection if it is in fact going to be a longstanding cultural force. The question is if this rejection is actually going to be a good thing. The woke are correct to be fearful of some mutant strain of the mustache man returning, the irony is that they and their actions would be largely responsible for it.

 

[Dead Star]

The problem with this is that family formation is a slowly dying aspect of American society. Boomers are halfway out the door already and will vanish from the equation over the course of the 2030s, and while Xers are still largely family men and women, Millennials have a historically unprecedented contingent of their cohort that are not and subsequent generations seem poised to continue that trend. This does not bode well for fans of normalcy.

There are 84 million families in the US.

I get what you're saying here. There's a big problem with falling birth rates. I am strangely optimistic though that the future going forward will change and things will get better.

Otherwise though, I agree with your take, I just think that wokeness can never fully die unless its foundations die along with it. This means the entirety of the post-60s civil rights worldview and legal apparatus and some prior liberal progressive cultural and legal strides. Again, I know the internet isn't real life- BUT, I think it's clear now that so many people are on the internet (I think it always was clear but especially so now) that the internet is where real people come to express their true ideas, thoughts, and feelings, so seeing so many calls across the growing internet right for a repeal of the 19th amendment or destruction of the civil rights act, etc etc is an indication that as neoliberal capitalism continues to fail to usher in any new or even just hold onto previous prosperity and people get more desperate that people are getting more willing actually reject wokeism to it's core of liberal progressivism- the baby and the bath water- because elements of it, like Disparate Impact, Affirmative Action, and other such laws, have had it not just culturally but legally engrained for over half a century now in the US that there can be no alternative explanation for disparate outcomes in various aspects of life between different groups than racism and sexism, etc. The puritanism, or at most generous the seeds of it, have been there for longer than most of us have been alive. And as such many of us can't see that we were born and have been swimming in those waters the entire time. The cultural revolution can not simply end where we want it to though, and the "woke" were the process of that liberalism entering its next and perhaps final stage.

What you're describing in the belief of wokeness being unable to die is the New Left and all their ideas.

You're right to an extent. It won't completely die cause it's so heavily embedded in academia.

Nothing in 'woke' beliefs is new. All of it emerged from the New Left that arose from the 60s. They took the old ideas of Marxist thinkers and stripped the class elements from it in replacement of identity politics and critical theory. The intersectionality ideas were built up from these theories. The Frankfurt school philosophers and Antonio Gramsci are where they came up with a lot of these ideas.

What is new is the generation that took in (millennials). They weren't around in the 60s when the radicals were burning down buildings on college campuses and rioting in the streets. The 1960s has been mythologized by the left. I think the younger leftists heard all these stories and think about how they missed out on the cool protesting.

There is a difference between older era Marxism before the 60s and the New Left. The old socialists used class warfare as their bread and butter. They scored some victories in the culture war and with labor laws in the 1910s up to the 1930s. The New Left has never believed in the class war, instead focusing on differences in gender and race. There have been many attempts of socialists to try and steer things back to class. It always ends with them being called "class reductionist" and labeled "too white" and "racist". Bernie Sanders attempted this in his 2016 run and it was rejected by a lot of Progressives. The other big reason it fails is that Americans aren't interested in wealth redistribution and eating the rich. Most people are happy if you just let them live their lives and build something with it.

I get what you're saying, but before the 2010s, there was a huge difference between liberals and progressives. The liberal/progressive coalition started in Obama's presidency, and then became the liberal/progressive/leftist coilition after Trump's 2016 victory. The center-left has been unable to prevent progressives from cannibalizing the Democratic party cause they all made friends with the crazies in response to Orange Man Bad. What they really need is another figure like Bill Clinton to emerge and move them back to the center. They will need to lose a few more election cycles though for that to happen, cause the progressives are so entrenched in the party, they can't be easily removed from one cycle.

 

[Some_porcupine]

Dark enlightment (articles on súbstack)