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Was thinking the same thing till I watched @lain is here 's video on it. As someone who likes reading, now I want to give them a try. About to start Narcissu. Wish me luck!I'm genuinely curious what people get out of visual novels. Too me it is just inherently inferior to both normal fiction, and graphic novel/manga. I've watched a few playthroughs of them and thought, Why would I ever want to do this instead of just reading something. The art can't be as high quality or impactful as manga, since the sheer length of them, and the writing/prose itself is not impressive from my short experience watching umineko playthroughs and other stuff. I guess the only selling point would be the music and small gameplay elements?, but its kind of a stretch to just have that to justify the experience. They story itself might be good, but why do authors choose to write visual novel, why not just write a novel or manga? I don't get it.
If you really want to know what a visual novel can uniquely bring to the table, I recommend you read up on "Kimi to Kanojo to Kanojo no Koi". It uses the medium to its best effect, involving visuals, music, and programatic elements to sublimely craft a metanarrative and directly adress the player as an agent on the story.I'm genuinely curious what people get out of visual novels. Too me it is just inherently inferior to both normal fiction, and graphic novel/manga. I've watched a few playthroughs of them and thought, Why would I ever want to do this instead of just reading something. The art can't be as high quality or impactful as manga, since the sheer length of them, and the writing/prose itself is not impressive from my short experience watching umineko playthroughs and other stuff. I guess the only selling point would be the music and small gameplay elements?, but its kind of a stretch to just have that to justify the experience. They story itself might be good, but why do authors choose to write visual novel, why not just write a novel or manga? I don't get it.
I'm not really an expert or anything, but speaking as a pathetic wannabe:They story itself might be good, but why do authors choose to write visual novel, why not just write a novel or manga? I don't get it.
Ramble? I'd give yourself more credit than that. You deliberate your thoughts in a manner much clearer than I ever could, to the extent that your point about people not being able to get the same things out of IDEON that you did being very similar to something I've been trying to vocalize for a while--and of which all attempts have failed, leaving it as long trains of thought continuously tracking themselves around the real point I wished to express to myself.This may have turned into something of a ramble, but if anyone understands what I mean by this, had similar experiences, even if you don't read books, can you tell me and the others here about VNs that made you feel any way like I described? (No matter how obscure and "weird" they may be)
Thanks, I will consider it!Ramble? I'd give yourself more credit than that. You deliberate your thoughts in a manner much clearer than I ever could, to the extent that your point about people not being able to get the same things out of IDEON that you did being very similar to something I've been trying to vocalize for a while--and of which all attempts have failed, leaving it as long trains of thought continuously tracking themselves around the real point I wished to express to myself.
Among visual novels, since it's the only one which I fully completed, I can vouch for AIR alone. As I read far more books than I do VNs (although only to the extent that my zoomerbrained analytical ability can allow me to) I thought it was rather interesting. You may very well not like it due to length and the seeming amount of filler (it seems to be around 10x the length of Narcissu) but it at least fulfills the story interactivity aspect in a very well done way--A way that I believe to be very well executed, and I say so coming from a place not entirely bound by the ignorance that comes from only being familiar with the mainstream otaku "media" sphere. Should you ever get around to it, I believe that it would be best to do so without any form of guide or outside knowledge--a condition which I think is best for all VNs, though this one among perhaps all others best benefits from it--and with the right mindset, at least for the first few attempts through the story.
I don't know why but I read them anyway.I'm genuinely curious what people get out of visual novels. Too me it is just inherently inferior to both normal fiction, and graphic novel/manga. I've watched a few playthroughs of them and thought, Why would I ever want to do this instead of just reading something. The art can't be as high quality or impactful as manga, since the sheer length of them, and the writing/prose itself is not impressive from my short experience watching umineko playthroughs and other stuff. I guess the only selling point would be the music and small gameplay elements?, but its kind of a stretch to just have that to justify the experience. They story itself might be good, but why do authors choose to write visual novel, why not just write a novel or manga? I don't get it.
I am 3 ways of mind about it, I think that if a vn its:I'm genuinely curious what people get out of visual novels. Too me it is just inherently inferior to both normal fiction, and graphic novel/manga. I've watched a few playthroughs of them and thought, Why would I ever want to do this instead of just reading something. The art can't be as high quality or impactful as manga, since the sheer length of them, and the writing/prose itself is not impressive from my short experience watching umineko playthroughs and other stuff. I guess the only selling point would be the music and small gameplay elements?, but its kind of a stretch to just have that to justify the experience. They story itself might be good, but why do authors choose to write visual novel, why not just write a novel or manga? I don't get it.
After now having finished Narcissu, I feel a constant awareness of my own mortality. Are we all that different from these two main characters who, suffering from terminal illness, don't have much longer to live; Aren't we all watching the clock tick till our final hour? Having thought they had given up, they still find themselves embarking on a spontanious adventure--their first and last. Nothing feels real to them anymore. Only because I may live to an old age (who knows), does that make any of things I worry about any more important? These two characters in a way realised that either way, even if their premature deaths near, their remaining life is still worth living. At the same time, being in a position considered on the whole, "still worth living", why do I feel like I have to jump into "living properly", to get involved with all this shit, everyday modern life I mean, career, a well-paying job, car, house etc. I don't care what I will do, I just need to fully experience, whatever it is in the end. And I feel this now more than ever; This story will stick with me.
Even then, it still has it's flaws. The prose was off--Maybe it was the translation, idk, but the story carried it. While I liked the presentation as a whole, the almost nostalgic 2000s art style being something I have a soft spot for, the backgrounds left something to be desired. However good it looks, and I'm sure this applies to the medium as a whole, the visuals in my head were better. In the right hands it could make for a great adaptation.
On the other hand, I managed to keep my focus all the way through. When reading I take ages, not because I read slowly, but because I become distracted by my own thoughts. Only rarely do I get into a proper flow state, but with this VN it came effortlessly, like when watching a movie; I have never had any problems watching anything--On the contrary I would say that movies and series, especially of a meditative sort actually ground me in reality; Propaganda for a conscious existence in a way. The paper book just can't compete with the screen when it comes to massaging grey matter. Although that might say more about my mental state as someone raised on the internet, than about the medium. Although if everyone is like this these days, @lain is here might be right in saying this is an unexplored way to deliver literary quality to modern man.
At the same time, I did read a VN without any direct story interactivity, so I guess all benifits of the medium weren't explored in the case of Narcissu, giving me a limited picture, however good the story was. Either way I agree the medium has potential and would like to give my thanks @lain is here for expanding my horizons. I would never have never considered checking out visual novels otherwise, having previously condemned them to the realm of the current artistically inbred otaku sphere.
I would like to finish off with a few general questions: For one, is the second part worth reading, in the same way the first part was?
And can anyone who's into classical literature maybe recommend me something worth checking out? With anime I often have the suspicion that the things people say are the "best" works are either considered such by those who either haven't discovered, or simply didn't understand the true masterpieces of the medium. For example, while I love Evangelion and consider it one of the best of the "mainstream" anime, Hideaki Anno is right in admitting that he will never surpass his greatest inspiration for it, Yoshiyuki Tomino's masterpiece IDEON. But that show doesn't even have a 7/10 rating on Myanimelist, the vast majority of the western audience in my opinion simply doesn't get it. I honestly haven't seen anyone get out of it what I did, I have never been touched by a piece of media like it before, except, say, Tomino's other work, or more important to the subject at hand: Classic Literature. This is how I got into reading in the first place, after having hated it from teen-age on. By a fluke I had somehow realised that this "thing", this feeling of being "got", this well of great emotion, that I thought no works apart from the greatest anime, possessed in long form storytelling, was present in everything I have read considered a canonical literary classic.
This may have turned into something of a ramble, but if anyone understands what I mean by this, had similar experiences, even if you don't read books, can you tell me and the others here about VNs that made you feel any way like I described? (No matter how obscure and "weird" they may be)
Edit: I just rewatched Lain's video and now realise how effective Narcissu's visuals actually were, in fact I didn't even notice how much they of the quality is owed to them and just subconsciously attributed their specific effects my the general impression of the work. I love when others can see things that I can't, see qualities I have ignored, be it in art or anywhere else. It makes me happy about being human, being able to share experiences, if that makes any sense.
If you read ONE you can clearly see many of the areas that it influenced KEY's earlier titles, in particular Kanon. If you ever enjoyed Clannad or any of the other Kyoto Animation and KEY collaboration anime, it never would have happened without ONE.
I always adored ONE as a concept. It's themes of chasing and being seduced by the comfort of Eternity is one I always admired. There are a lot of things I appreciate about ONE, but ultimately I think it's a work where its parts are greater than the whole. The ideas, the music, and the characters are all compelling, but as a whole VN I honestly find it kind of meh.
I'm only familiar with Clannad, and only the anime at that. Lovely story that I should probably revisit one of these days. Posting in this thread to get notified for the future.It's precisely because ONE is a flawed work that has many good ideas and sound elements within it, that I think a remake which revisits it, can really bring out its full potential.
The Higurashi manga is kino. If you like it, you should check out Umineko next. The manga for that is also really solid if you prefer reading manga. Just blast the ost in the background to simulate the full experiencei sat at my desk and tried to play a vn but it wasn't as cozy as i hoped. so instead i read higurashi manga snug as a bug in bed. currently on the very last arc
The Higurashi manga is kino. If you like it, you should check out Umineko next. The manga for that is also really solid if you prefer reading manga. Just blast the ost in the background to simulate the full experience
Here's a sample of one of my personal favorite tracks if you want a taste:
I read the Umineko VN while stuck in a room up in Alaska in mid-winter. It was extremely cozy. Job apps in the morning, a quick lunch of rice and chili or the like, then witches, metafiction, and Knox's Decalogue all PM until the snow, darkness, and hum of the heater lulled me to sleep. (Though Higurashi is still my favorite in that series. I think in VNs where you have a choice, playing without voice acting is preferable since the atmosphere hits different. Of course more true with NVL than ADV types.)this makes me just wanna read the vn, wish i could read vn snug as a bug in bed
I mostly lurk this site, but I'm always happy to see this thread getting new posts. Feel free to necro it whenever you feel like it!Whelp it's me again, eager to necro this thread.
Same here, I'm super excited towards this! While I'm personally not big on the new artstyle I think I can grow on it. I hope we'll get something similar for MOON. one day.ONE ~To The Radiant Season~ is getting a remake, and I'm really looking forward to it.
Often the problem I have with remakes, is that they are seeking to tamper with what is already perfect or near perfect. There's rarely any improvment which should be done imo, as even the outdated aspects of older works tend to have a unique charm. Such that glossing them over with updated graphics and sound design rarely adds anything, and often detracts from the soul of the original. It's precisely because ONE is a flawed work that has many good ideas and sound elements within it, that I think a remake which revisits it, can really bring out its full potential.
this makes me just wanna read the vn, wish i could read vn snug as a bug in bed
Well you could always grab your phone and read a commentaryless playthrough of it. That's what I did with Higurashi and Umineko (although most of the time I was watching it on my computer).this makes me just wanna read the vn, wish i could read vn snug as a bug in bed