what do you think of the so-called "western aesthetics" on the internet?

[vech_08]

I am sure that what I am about to tell you has happened to more than one of you, I am sure that more than one of you saw the "reject modernity, embrace tradition" meme. If I'm not being specific enough, I'm talking about those memes where the wojack nordic is shown as a traditional man, who is christian, lives in the country, rejects and hates today's society and criticizes things that for him are terrible (pornhub, games, junk food, promiscuity and to summarize, he abhors the consumerism that society promotes), has a family and children who like him, have a traditional and conservative mentality, living in the country and act as if they were in the 50s.

And speaking of the 50's, is it just me or is the 50's being idealized? The 50's are shown as a time when there were real values, when we didn't have the problems we have now, being a much better time to live and above all, not having to deal with the crap that the internet throws at us today such as: the problem of incels and femcels, that our generation does not know if they are men or women or whatever they put in your head in schools and universities, the political extremisms of left and right and above all, not to feel empty, that your life does have a purpose and it is beautiful.

Leaving aside the long introduction on a meme you already know, there's something that I always call the attention of that meme. That they sell it to you as the new rebellion, that now the rebellious being means having a family and children in the countryside and living like in the 1950s, that those conservative Christians who show up as chads with so to speak, "today's new punks," but is it really so?, there's some truth in their speech or is it just a meme and already?.
I'd like to know what you think in this forum about the subject, but if you ask me, I have some other doubt I want to say.
I always call it the attention that they put Christianity as the most "chad" that can be, while they put you to atheism as something very pathetic, pitiful, stupid and ultimately, as the "virgin" in the meme. Sometimes it gives the impression of being a meme of "The Virgin Atheist VS The Chad Christian." I can understand why they do so because of the horrendous fashion of being an intellectually arrogant atheist of >reddit years ago and apparently there are still people like that. But I'm called by the attention they make the Christian chad as someone invulnerable to any addiction either: porn addiction, junk food, vapes, etc. As if having faith was some kind of "anti-vice shield" and nothing affects them, from experience, I know people very believing in real life (and are not few) and yet have some bad vice to fight with, like alcohol or spend hours in tik tok. This is what I mean when I say they show faith as a perfect anti-vice shield. I'm not saying that faith can't help you overcome your problems in life, it just seems a little exaggerated to me the way so glorified that they show you faith in the most conservative parts of the InternetContinuing with the previous point. I'm struck by how people are shown in a way that you only have 2 options, I explain. They show you a Wojack Coomer or a Wojak Doomer with all the vices that a person can have in today's society such as being addicted to porn, video games, junk food, vapes, among others. That the one who plays "The Virgin" (so to speak) is always an atheist or at the very least, someone who has trouble having faith and ends up ruined with his life. While the person who plays "The Chad" is the opposite, that is, with a Christian and conservative mentality, invulnerable to all the problems of today's world (that is, what I described before). But are we really that basic?, is it really not possible that there are nuances between both options?, because from experience, the believing people I know in my real life (I'm talking about family and very loving friends) are neither one nor the other, they have a bit of both extremes.

They can have faith in Christ but not have vices, they can practice a sport but that is why enjoy video games without it becoming a vice or controlling their lives, they can have a traditional and stable family with a wife and children but that does not mean that they are fit or have muscles or go to the gym, they may not be interested in porn or go to the promiscuity that the most conservative community criticizes so much, but that does not mean that they refuse to have a girlfriend to be intimate, much less seek to be ascetics, as happens to incels or the MGTOW community. What I mean is that in my experience people are not usually as they are seen in the memes of "reject modernity, embrace tradition", I can understand why they think that way because like them, I understand that feeling of disgust to today's society (but that's a topic for another thread) but real life looks much more complex than it seems. What do you think of all this?

 

[vech_08]

I almost forgot. In my experience, believers (including my family) are Catholics. I say this thinking that it is an important factor to talk about this issue, in addition to the fact that a good part of the most conservative communities with Catholics as well. I don't know if this detail really matters but I mention it just in case

 

[Some_porcupine]

i read someone called those Kristians (as for Karen-Christians) but cant find that nowhere anymore

 

[elia925-6]

Wdym? The aesthetics found on web and graphic design today or the decades?

 

[vech_08]

Wdym? The aesthetics found on web and graphic design today or the decades?

No, I talk about the conservative community in internet, This is not about web and graphic design. I talk about conservative memes like this. i hope these memes will make it clear what i'm talking about

 

[Waninem]

Not really sure it's worth thinking critically about an ad hominem meme that basically boils down to, "my side good, your side bad," but I will say that 50s idealization is nothing new. People have been missing the 50s since at least the 60s, and during the 80s 50s nostalgia had a revival period, from what I heard. The 80s was also the last time the "Chad Christian" that shows up in those memes was a prominent viewpoint in American culture; the dude who don't drink, don't smoke, eats perfectly and has memorized the KJV Bible front-to-back.

Because the pendulum is swinging back from left to right, we're getting a resurgence of that kind of social Christian. It's something that happens every few decades; you'll get this oscillation from extreme right-wing "everything is Satan" thinking to extreme left-wing "everything is racist" thinking. Politics is, unfortunately, reactionary. Especially now, when echo chambers and algorithms are prominent and have effectively insulated both sides from having meaningful discussions. These memes are just a symptom of that. But if it makes you feel any better, I guarantee you similar memes exist on the other side with the perspectives flipped around. Wojaks are just a generic template after all.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, the 50s time period these guys are idealizing is probably closer to a simulacrum now than pure anemoia. It's been a long time since the 50s; the people who were born then are hitting their 70s now. So at least half the impressions being spread around about it are completely secondhand from people's grandpas or some such, eaten away by the sands of time, with tiny scraps of media made during that time period being a visual reference. (I know there's boomers on Facebook who were alive during that time but I can't understate the amount of people in that age group who don't go online much.)

 

[dorgon]

And speaking of the 50's, is it just me or is the 50's being idealized? The 50's are shown as a time when there were real values, when we didn't have the problems we have now, being a much better time to live and above all, not having to deal with the crap that the internet throws at us today such as: the problem of incels and femcels, that our generation does not know if they are men or women or whatever they put in your head in schools and universities, the political extremisms of left and right and above all, not to feel empty, that your life does have a purpose and it is beautiful.

Past idealization and nostalgia all suffer the same error of only seeing the positive things from that era. While people idealized the 50s because it had the trad values they liked and no woke libtard commie haha shit, the 1950s also had their problems, like diseases such as smallpox and polio, the prominent use of lead (especially in paint and water), racial tensions (even though we still have those nowadays). I am 99% confident that these wojak lovers are probably born post millennium and even their parents probably barely know what happened in the 50s, much less them. With that being said though there were probably some good qualities the United States and Europe had that is lacking today, so my statement shouldn't be completely dismissive of what happened 70 years ago.

Leaving aside the long introduction on a meme you already know, there's something that I always call the attention of that meme. .... (mucho texto) ..... because from experience, the believing people I know in my real life (I'm talking about family and very loving friends) are neither one nor the other, they have a bit of both extremes.

You mention that most people you know have a "little bit" of both extremes. Well, that is because most normal people have a little bit of those extremes. These caricatures of Christianity you often see online are often because these people online have simplified and exaggerated versions of Christian principles. I think this stems from echo-chambers of people spouting the same shit to each other, which unsurprisingly just makes them more extreme in their beliefs. I will also add that posting these stupid memes will change no one's mind about Christianity at all.

With that being said I think the main problem these posters have relating to Christianity is that they don't seem to understand is that Christianity is more than just believing in Christ as God (unless you're Protestant). It's a lifestyle. Communion, alms, studying, praying, even fasting. And something to note is that Jesus often hung out with whores and tax collectors (Luke 15:1) because they acknowledged that they are sinners and are actively seeking Jesus out for consoling and spiritual healing. And Jesus acknowledges this as well (Matthew 5:3). So if these posters reject people for having vices that they struggle with because they're not the "Chad" as portrayed then they are not very good Christians indeed! Also, the "Chads" are often an incorrect representation of what the whole point of Christianity is, it's not a "you're a sinner so you are damned" religion as some people (both Christian and non-Christian) think it is, it is more of a "We all sin, Lord have mercy on us and give us the aid to overcome it" kind of deal. Think of Jesus's parable about the Pharisee and the tax collector. So seeing people posting these and LARPing as trad caths on Twitter to make themselves feel "based" and "redpilled" is a sad state to see online. To simply post a silly wojak meme about Christianity being le good and atheism being le soy bad is like Caligula announcing victory over the sea by collecting sea shells. And there are many reasons why one person would join and leave a religion as well, and it's certainly more than reading a Richard Dawkins quote on reddit. These memes are funny for pissing people off and starting a troll campaign but if someone unironically posts these then they are as stupid as the soyjak they portray the other side as.


With that being said, they're silly memes. Don't look too much into it like I did just now, lmao. Have a good night.

 

[evenlymatched95]

Christians absorbing insanely ugly wojak imagery, the kind of symbols that their great grandparents would probably call demonic, into their memes. The perfect match for all the horror stories of nihilist-atheists ruining themselves with sex and drugs.
It's all so vile. The Internet has become disgusting.

 

[BlackControlBoxer]

No, I talk about the conservative community in internet, This is not about web and graphic design. I talk about conservative memes like this. i hope these memes will make it clear what i'm talking about

The internet its so vast things like this only take part in not even 1/1000 of the actual internet.

You're at the shit factory and wondering why there's shit in your plate.

 

[BarnSwallow]

What do I think? I don't think about them at all. They're memes. Think about the memes critically and you're probably using your brain harder than the people who produced them.

Honestly, I kind of like them. Will to power, baby. If a stupid trad-orthodoxy wojack meme is what it takes to have disillusioned terminally online man-children attempt to shape up and rejoin their community, then so be it.

 

[internet_userr1]

That they sell it to you as the new rebellion, that now the rebellious being means having a family and children in the countryside and living like in the 1950s, that those conservative Christians who show up as chads with so to speak, "today's new punks," but is it really so?, there's some truth in their speech or is it just a meme and already?.
I'd like to know what you think in this forum about the subject, but if you ask me, I have some other doubt I want to say.

There's a kernel of truth to this. Some conservative Christians are presenting themselves as the "new punks." They are rejecting mainstream cultural trends and embracing a more traditional way of life, which could be interpreted as a form of rebellion, albeit against a different set of values So, is this a real change in society, or just a meme? It's hard to say. It all feels a bit staged tbh. I don't think it's actually a big thing, it's just a small group making a lot of noise online. Like yeah I guess it's more normalised to be modern than traditional now-a-days but a lot of aspects of modernity is still criticized upon. I mean, no matter the timeframe, there will always be a few things to be critical upon, nothing is perfect. But that's just further proof that going back to the 1950's isn't going to magically fix the world.

What I mean is that in my experience people are not usually as they are seen in the memes of "reject modernity, embrace tradition"

This is exactly it. Tradition can't be embraced now because society has moved forward so much. This isn't the 1950's anymore. Anyone who want's to "embrace tradition" but lives in a first world country wont be able to do so unless they're basically poor on the streets or some shit, because a complete embrace of traditional lifestyles is largely incompatible with modern, first-world societies. The 1950s are not a realistic model for contemporary life.

Also, (just from my experience,) I have found that most religious people are somewhat hypocritical. Because their holy scriptures can be interpreted in so many different ways, it's hard to tell what someone really believes versus what they say they believe. This is not meant to be in any way disrespectful, this is just an observation coming from an ex-muslim who has lived and dealt with all types of religious people before.

Edit: by the way, the title for this post makes no sense to me. I don't understand what this has to do with "western aesthetics." this entire post is about a meme made by conservative Christians. Where did the "aesthetic" part come from???

What do I think? I don't think about them at all. They're memes. Think about the memes critically and you're probably using your brain harder than the people who produced them.

Memes can have really deep meaning behind them that can contribute to a bigger problem. People are just putting these issues into memes and labelling it as a "joke" so that people like you will not think it's a big deal when in reality, there is a bigger picture here and the creators and contributors of the meme know it. You absorb these memes unconsciously, and they can shape how you see the world.

For example, there was that meme trend where women would say, "I'm just a girl" after doing something silly. Sure, it's presented as a joke, but it plays into the misogynistic idea that women are inherently less intelligent. We are on social media so much no-a-days, that we absorb this stuff without even thinking about it. Social media is most peoples main influence for thoughts and ideas. Our brains just soak it up, and it starts to shape how we see women, and maybe even how we see ourselves. It's like, we're not even consciously aware of the message, but it's there, slowly changing our perspectives. That's the scary part, and I have been personally affected by this time and time again. It took me the longest time to realise that my way of thinking was unconsciously absorbed through social media.

 

[K0WLOON]

As a one who spends many days basking in nostalgia, nostalgia is never for reality. Nostalgia is a construction, an idealized wax statue of the past. it takes the things of yesterday and rearranges them to look a certain way, like a real estate agent making a house look nicer to sell. Eventually, the things that signify yesterday no longer have a tangible connection to yesterday, and all that is left are the things that we in the present see as signifying yesterday. It no longer represents how the days were, it is our conception of the days (Wonder Years, Happy Days, The Goldbergs, that dumb Jonah Hill movie). This is the summit of nostalgia., as Baudrillard puts it

When the real is no longer what it used to be, nostalgia assumes its full meaning.

the 1950s were good for a certain demographic. The ones who most pine for those days in the present are often not included in that demo but it serves it's purpose as an idol for certain sociopolitical enterprises to blind the ones with it's gilt and shiny rhinestones.

Funny enough, the Stalinists, MLMs and other assorted tankie ideologies also use these days, so it's not just radtrad catholics and the Manosphere

 

[Some_porcupine]

First half, incelcore thread.
Then, these "redeemed zoomers" and "trads" just anticipate future and get ready for shift, because in first case, future that might be (nowadays) is trash days of present, than mighty betterment.
Progress (in tech...) =/= Better smarter people...

 

[vech_08]

First half, incelcore thread.
Then, these "redeemed zoomers" and "trads" just anticipate future and get ready for shift, because in first case, future that might be (nowadays) is trash days of present, than mighty betterment.
Progress (in tech...) =/= Better smarter people...

What do you mean? I understand that you don't like the "trad" trend you see on social media lately, but I can understand why that trend exists in the first place without needing to be part of it. It is the result of the disappointment that many people (including myself) feel when looking at today's society. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, people hate the lib-left mentality that society promotes and the consequences of it, which leads to a "protest" (if you can call it that) to embrace everything Christian and conservative to act as a counterculture and express their discontent.

If you could go and live in another world and abandon the current society and forget about it, would you take the ticket?

EDIT: what's incelcore about this thread. I only mentioned them once but I don't know what's incelcore about the thread I'm talking about.

 

[vech_08]

Memes can have really deep meaning behind them that can contribute to a bigger problem. People are just putting these issues into memes and labelling it as a "joke" so that people like you will not think it's a big deal when in reality, there is a bigger picture here and the creators and contributors of the meme know it. You absorb these memes unconsciously, and they can shape how you see the world.

For example, there was that meme trend where women would say, "I'm just a girl" after doing something silly. Sure, it's presented as a joke, but it plays into the misogynistic idea that women are inherently less intelligent. We are on social media so much no-a-days, that we absorb this stuff without even thinking about it. Social media is most peoples main influence for thoughts and ideas. Our brains just soak it up, and it starts to shape how we see women, and maybe even how we see ourselves. It's like, we're not even consciously aware of the message, but it's there, slowly changing our perspectives. That's the scary part, and I have been personally affected by this time and time again. It took me the longest time to realise that my way of thinking was unconsciously absorbed through social media.

I'm sure you're going to think that this user or myself are schizophrenics who need to go outside, but what he just said is something very, very based.
Although it may not seem like it, memes are much more powerful than you think, humor is used to express ideas and make social criticism and memes are also capable of the same, how many times have you seen a meme that criticizes something or someone, how many times have you seen a meme that expresses an opinion or makes a social criticism, how many times have you seen a meme that expresses an opinion or makes a social criticism? Memes can implant ideas that look like jokes, but there comes a point when you actually believe them.

Don't believe me, look at the paranoia on social networks with internet pills, like what Andrew Thate did with the redpill. Many men fall into the redpill community and influencers have earned more money than you and I would earn in a lifetime of pure work, turning it into a kind of "male cult" that manipulates a lot of people. do you still think I'm crazy?

EDIT: I know I got a little off topic and what I said could have been in another thread (which I probably will) but I just wanted to get it off my chest.

 

[vech_08]

The internet its so vast things like this only take part in not even 1/1000 of the actual internet.

You're at the shit factory and wondering why there's shit in your plate.

I mean, there are a lot of websites on the internet, but the vast majority of online activity (maybe all of it by this point) is concentrated in the usual social networks like: twitter/X, instagram, tik tok, YouTube, etc.

What vastness are you talking about if everyone is on the same old sites?..it's like a megacity. Today's internet is like a megacity where we all live and around it there is only a huge wasteland full of ghost towns.

 

[internet_userr1]

Memes can implant ideas that look like jokes, but there comes a point when you actually believe them.

100%. I was a victim of this for a very long time, I lived a long time of my life in negativity and hatred because of it. Glad to have discovered the root issue and finally be free.
Fortunately, these things can easily be avoided. Just don't download social media LOL

 

[vech_08]

What do I think? I don't think about them at all. They're memes. Think about the memes critically and you're probably using your brain harder than the people who produced them.

Honestly, I kind of like them. Will to power, baby. If a stupid trad-orthodoxy wojack meme is what it takes to have disillusioned terminally online man-children attempt to shape up and rejoin their community, then so be it.

It's weird because it seems that those kind of memes are useful for today's world. I used to think in a similar way to what you are saying, I mean, we are talking about a community that promotes healthy habits like exercising, being in nature, using Christianity to be a better person, what's wrong with what they do, isn't it a miracle that such a community exists in today's Internet?

I used to think I was being unfair by criticizing, but then I found out about the manosphere, which contains the redpill, blackpill, pua, incels and other frustrated man haters. Just hearing about the incels who have done massacres makes me question that more conservative side of the internet (and I'm not just talking about the famous Eliot Rodgers case, he's not the only one who has done a massacre).

 

[vech_08]

100%. I was a victim of this for a very long time, I lived a long time of my life in negativity and hatred because of it. Glad to have discovered the root issue and finally be free.
Fortunately, these things can easily be avoided. Just don't download social media LOL

I understand, something similar happened to me. It used to be inside the internet manosphere, in the blackpill and MGTOW to be exact. He was not an active member or much less an important one, but he left me with a severe series of fear of the real world, thinking that he could not trust anyone, that it was better to live alone and not even talk about having a girlfriend because for them it is strictly forbidden. I'd love to tell more, but that's a matter for another day and I'm getting off the thread (if you want to talk later)

That's why I like small forums like this. Maybe it's just my perception of things, but for some reason you feel a different vibe in these forums in the lower corners, like the community is different from what you're used to seeing on social networks. The first big difference is to see the conversations of all kinds given here and for some reason, all the conversations given here feel more calm, no matter if we talk about a political subject, everything feels more quiet. That doesn't mean that the forum is out of trouble, ningul place is perfect but I'd rather be here than on tik tok or twitter.

EDIT: I know I'm deviating but, do you feel good in this forum?, do you like this community?

 

[internet_userr1]

I know I'm deviating but, do you feel good in this forum?, do you like this community?

I like this place. It's very different from other "chatting" platforms, and at first I was kinda sceptical, but after a few weeks I adjusted to the rules and understood how the forum (and forums in general) actually worked.

How I joined this forum is a funny story. On my school WIFI, most of everything is restricted... except forums. I honestly thought that they'd be the same as any other chatting app (I am persistently active on discord if you can't already tell LMAO) so I made an account. I came to find that they were very different from other chatting apps... actually, I like forums a lot more.
The conversations aren't so cluttered, but instead, categorised. You could make a topic for the most random things and people will actively engage in what you have to say without judgement (depending on the topic ofc... but I mean like, if I made a thread titled "opinions on grass?" or some shit, there would be at least one person who would respond, and likely in a serious manner, ergo, no judgement.) Really nice for people like me who tend to think alot (I don't want to say "overthink"? Maybe the word I'm looking for is ponder. I just think about a lot of things that not many others really care about. I feel like whenever I try to get into deeper and more informational topics, people just don't engage) and love sharing every little part of my thoughts on things.
And the better part is that the people I meet on forums are like... really smart and give me highly educated vibes. I've learnt so many things from forums, from random to things that have actually helped me in my day to day life.

In attempt to not deviate this any further, let's leave the convo here. If you'd like, you can like this to lmk you read it or privately message me if you wanna talk