What is your model of reality?

[Ross_Я]

Also technically incorrect because mating refers to binary reproduction and a creature can die indirectly by poor adaptation and another species' traits, but I was writing babby's first evolution in a nutshell and I'm not about to write a legal document for what basically amounts to a throwaway post.

But that's, kind of, the whole underlying point. Theory of evolution has very many small stones in its garden, which makes it feel kind of... incomplete, at the very least.

 

[Punp]

But that's, kind of, the whole underlying point. Theory of evolution has very many small stones in its garden, which makes it feel kind of... incomplete, at the very least.

I'm sorry, it's 3am. Can you break down what you mean into longer sentences for me please?

 

[Ross_Я]

I'm sorry, it's 3am. Can you break down what you mean into longer sentences for me please?

I'm sorry as well, but not really. It's 6 AM here and I'm not quite sure how I even ended up in this thread to begin with.
Some other day, some other time, perhaps.

 

[Some_porcupine]

i used to be like
kona, nekuria and this dude over here, and the other one i forgot name, some newbie talking about 7eyes iirc
all these catastrophical predictions you all told and this forum is in favor of, the ways we dwell in "technocrats bad", but how can we asure ourselves that if he had the chance we wouldnt end up the same, making others lives living hell, with loincences, byro shit and capping-off free speech?? what would make us better - integrity, empathy, compasion? but arent evil doings paved by good intentions? those technobozos think they do right, if they want to make us ant colony and use AI to predict our behaviour, think BNW or Minority report...

also, i think "free" AI is just a ploy, so that it is another death by "google", the same way they killed their SEO, forums, non-mobile-native pages and relevancy (e.g. instead of useful ads, they promote shit; but thats circle, and talk for another day)... - if AI is allowed, then other crazy shit is the other day - overton window in Live on 5... > another monopolization, patent for truth (tm), i wanted to say

 

[Ross_Я]

I'm sorry, it's 3am. Can you break down what you mean into longer sentences for me please?

Here: https://forum.agoraroad.com/index.php?threads/6548/
Spent several hours on it out of my utmost respect towards you, so you are welcome, I guess.
I'm still not sure if I should've actually done this, as I'm really not quite in my plate in that topic, but I guess it doesn't quite matter at this point.

 

[Jodo_Fan]

My model? Basically medieval cosmology. And not ironically.

 

[willhelpme]

Imagine in the future when AI is at its mastery and wholly invented timelines and the proof they posit are presented as facts to the population as "ancient" artifacts are created on demand to push the narrative about what actually happened on this planet to get them to that level of tech.

Wouldn't that be something? Do you think the people would care anyway? Or would they be too busy enjoying the latest version of bread and circus to pay too much attention to the machinations of the man behind the curtain when it comes to reality creation? Better yet would their augments even allow them to consider such off limit concepts or would they be fined one credit for a violation of the morality statute which prevents such things?

Mellow greetings, future humans...

 

[Some_porcupine]

Imagine in the future when AI is at its mastery and wholly invented timelines and the proof they posit are presented as facts to the population as "ancient" artifacts are created on demand to push the narrative about what actually happened on this planet to get them to that level of tech.

Wouldn't that be something? Do you think the people would care anyway? Or would they be too busy enjoying the latest version of bread and circus to pay too much attention to the machinations of the man behind the curtain when it comes to reality creation? Better yet would their augments even allow them to consider such off limit concepts or would they be fined one credit for a violation of the morality statute which prevents such things?

Mellow greetings, future humans...

so you say, basically "after Roko's basilisk", if it won? "it was inevitable!" false narrative?
but how can we assure that not to happen then lol

 

[Chuffed]

I just like the idea that humans came before me, had silly human stuff happen, as will the future humans.

 

[willhelpme]

Yeah, the little things are really nice. A great touch as they are what keeps it interesting but the overall paradigm is really, really strange. I mean, stop and think:

We have a planet, some people and animals. This is the best we can come up with? I can safely say that everyone, in their own way, is suffering but only a small percent have the nous to admit this. When you add in bits like parasitism being the most popular lifestyle on Earth, the vast and seemingly never ending swathes of conflict and random cryptic hints like:

"Let he who has wisdom count the number of man for it is that of the beast"

and such things which make me think of Carbon as that has 6 protons, 6 neutrons and 6 electrons that is then doubled up again as we spend 2/3rds of our life in the realm and the rest in bed which, in decimal, is .666 as it spins into the distance as well as wondering why "Lived" is "Devil" when flipped and a whole host of random things like "waking" and stating "Good Morning" which is actually saying "Happy Funeral!" as you go to "urn a living" by cremating your potential in "collar and cuffs" with an inverted noose around your neck plus the same crafty symbolism pops up, ad infinitum, in all kinds of logos and corporate events as well as the day to day spread that no one questions.

What if we were actually dead and this is hell? What then?

 

[pickleman]

Its very interesting idea but what is more interesting is how we humans seem to be biased into metastasizing realities which involve space and time.

I mean what do you think a tree thinks about space and time? Or are you biased into thinking a tree cannot think, or that you are biased into thinking what can think must think like you where there is conceptions of space and time. And this reality is projected. Its a fusion of sensory inputs and imposes an image which you make various judgements on and most of which are judgements which you do not see or control.

Secular time has destroyed the human mind because it made human think of time in terms of lines when that's a very narrow way of considering how time works. Time can fold, it can bend, we can experience the same things over and over. Well in your projection of reality that is. Your thoughts are reality even if they produce illusory projections of space and time. If all your perceptions of reality are based on your fusion of sensory inputs then that's all you understand of reality. If your perception goes back in time that is reality for you even if the seculars say that you are schizophrenic / etc. Because I mean what does time even mean for you at that point?

You need to figure what is reality and that is actually a difficult problem. Is it merely what is conceived as shared consciousness? Well that opens us to shared psychological delusions. If we are open to shared psychological delusions, then we could be open the the shared psychological delusion of the secular perception of space and time.

The perception of space and time has its limits. The larger the time spans and the more warped the space, the harder we can conceive of it. We do not see space as 3D Cartesian space its moreso an abstract space within a abstract time. When you think of where you had your first kiss this comes into play. For many of you this perception doesn't exist because you're just a faggot little virgin who was hated by everyone, but for people who are functional humans we can place this reality in space and time but it is bent. We go back in time to construct this perception but it is flawed. We place a position in what we see as space but we do not have coordinates for it (we can apply them after the original positional thought), and we can give it a time however not exact until we map to secular time afterwards. What is interesting is that in this thought experiment we can actually say that information is indeed not added but lost in the conversion and you know it has and you can feel it. You map the experience of your first kiss from that projection to a secular space and time you feel a sense of loss.

Its interesting, when the Christians experience lent, they are temporally closer to the crucifixion of Christ than they were last summer. There is spiritual significance in time which the seculars ignore. It is warped and bent and perceptions and experiences can be regenerated. The Crucifixion of Christ may have occurred in the Roman Empire, but we can experience it in Modern America every year. Certain days are faster and less memorable than others, some experiences make us feel transformed in life or makes us feel like we have advanced though spiritual time. Sometimes we feel stuck even though secular time is still flowing.

No one truly knows where we came from nor where we are going. You do not control any of it. You exist and you have to deal with that fact. You can think of yourself as a walking corpse or a spiritual entity under going the trials of God! The choice is yours. You can close your perceptions as mere delusions or you can choose to accept reality for what it is and it IS. You are wandering in the desert of life and you seek to be guided to the promised land. You shake your fist at your creator but you have been set free! Do not pick back up your chains!

The Trial of Job: A Before and After

Job Chapter 1 (First chapter)
1 In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil. 2 He had seven sons and three daughters, 3 and he owned seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen and five hundred donkeys, and had a large number of servants. He was the greatest man among all the people of the East.
...
Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."
12 The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."

Job Chapter 42 (Last Chapter)
12 The Lord blessed the latter part of Job's life more than the former part. He had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, a thousand yoke of oxen and a thousand donkeys. 13 And he also had seven sons and three daughters. 14 The first daughter he named Jemimah, the second Keziah and the third Keren-Happuch. 15 Nowhere in all the land were there found women as beautiful as Job's daughters, and their father granted them an inheritance along with their brothers.
16 After this, Job lived a hundred and forty years; he saw his children and their children to the fourth generation. 17 And so Job died, an old man and full of years.

The Creation

Genesis Chapter 1 Verse 1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.

The Creation of Man

Genesis Chapter 1 Verse 27
So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

The Original Sin

21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

Eden Restored​

Revelations 22
22 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

 

[Andy Kaufman]

My take: (something) happened and it caused matter to be (the big bang). The matter coalesced and become planets. A chemical reaction happened creating life. The successful life, over billions of years, joined together in groups and become the organisms we experience today (after many, many extinctions). You are matter experiencing itself and when you die it'll be like before you were born. You are not special and life has no meaning. Enjoy matter experiencing itself. The matter is not perfect and has no inherent meaning. Traits which do not cause the life form to die continue down the chain, and humans are imperfect creatures which halucinate and see patterns where there aren't any.

Which leads me to my take on your take: You've taken a lot of symbolism out of the air and attributed meaning to it. Siri is the reverse of Iris, probably because of a marketing ploy. In any other language your revelation doesn't make sense. You can't just enjoy the fact that you're alive but you have to put another layer on top of it where the world is a computer game based on popular media.

As to your whole thing about the global media secretly working to force you to consume, it's not exactly a secret. The human mind is easily exploited with a few readily available chemicals. I'm not even talking LSD or """mind control""", but things like salt, fat, sugar and low doses of dopamine.

Sorry to break it to you, but you haven't seen through the code, and the world just isn't a massively magical complex computer game which you can solve with a few backronyms, an evening on wikipedia and some heavy breathing.

this combined with:

I do not believe in the SOUL, so I don't believe the world to be a game of souls.

Everything I see in life is physical, logical, only the mind bizarrely appears to be irrational. And to be sure, rationality in this case isn't "science", it's the ability to judge reality from observable patterens. We can make arguments for the absence of observance, but they should not overrule well-observed patterns. Academic "science" has become a game of one-ups-manship where the ability to argue in favor of oneself is more important than facts observed, and that makes it irrational.

I have observed people around me changing their personalities after surgeries, I have seen what the bottle can do to an otherwise kind man, I've not observed this supposedly eternal "soul"; I've only observed how easily the person can be altered with eternal objects. We are machines, a complex colony of various smaller machines, all functioning in various degrees of synergy -- mechanically no different from a car or an ant, only the complexity separates us from clockwork.

Intelligence is just a complex system of pattern recognition derived prediction, or else what even is logic? "Given A=B, and C=D, if A becomes D following E, how big is my :D"? That's it, that's all. That's all experience is. This self-obessesion with the human species is truly fascinating, afterall, do you believe kangaroos spend their shade-time gazing at their own malsurpia? I often think we have the need for the spiritual precisely because we are complex enough to observe the things we made are made for a purpose, yet we ourselves know not ours.

IDGAF that atheism isn't en vouge anymore and all the internet kids are rolling with spiritualism now because they want to distinguish themselves from the fedora reditors. I'm not changing my world view just to counter signal and I don't wear these convictions as some kind of online acessory to be brandished for stlye points which seems to be a case for 99.9% for le epic schizo larpers nowadays, even if it's just subconciously.
I understand the longing for spritituality in the current times: the prospect of life having no inherent meaning and no benelevont magic god watching over you can be incredibly depressing so it's natural to cope with that by choosing to believe in fairy tales.
That being said, I do appreciate spirituality as a social tool. A tool our species developed for cohesion but also to satiate our eternal curiosity. But everyone should wield this tool with this exact awareness, that it's just made by and for our brains.

 

[pickleman]

I understand the longing for spritituality in the current times: the prospect of life having no inherent meaning and no benelevont magic god watching over you can be incredibly depressing so it's natural to cope with that by choosing to believe in fairy tales.

The claim that "life has no meaning" implies that nothing matters. That includes me, you, this website, your family, friends, community, hobbies, etc. The real question is that if none of it has any meaning whatsoever why did you feel the need to make this comment where you also claim the spiritual believe in fairy tales? Clearly you derive some sort of meaning out of life but you're just dishonest about it.

Why do you care about people on the internet professing their beliefs of the spiritual enough to the point you consider those people negatively as "skitzo larpers" when you admit spirituality is useful?

Where do you get the drive to command judgement? What fables do you use to make complex moral judgements? Netflix? Your ass? Yeah Right Smirk.

What is reality to you? What is directly observable? Well what about what we cant observe? What if you feel like shit because no one likes you? How do you observe that and even if you could what is the point? Clearly in respect to a human the most real thing there is is pain. We use objective truths to reduce pain, ie engineering, medicine, etc. But those objective truths can only go so far and they are like a spot light they are not comprehensive. What use is Atheism if its unable to reduce pain? If it cannot resolve pain how can you know it is real when the most real thing is pain? If sprituality is curing pains how can you say it is falsehood? Is it better that the faithful have faith in drugs and sedate themselves to their perceptions? Is it better for the faithful to see their psychologist instead of confiding in their Church? I have been to a psychologist and they only serve what is objective, and what is objective is not comprehensive; so it cannot heal everyone.

What is more real then pain?
Your pride?
Your sin?

I suppose so.

 

[Andy Kaufman]

The claim that "life has no meaning" implies that nothing matters. That includes me, you, this website, your family, friends, community, hobbies, etc. The real question is that if none of it has any meaning whatsoever why did you feel the need to make this comment where you also claim the spiritual believe in fairy tales? Clearly you derive some sort of meaning out of life but you're just dishonest about it.

Why do you care about people on the internet professing their beliefs of the spiritual enough to the point you consider those people negatively as "skitzo larpers" when you admit spirituality is useful?

Where do you get the drive to command judgement? What fables do you use to make complex moral judgements? Netflix? Your ass? Yeah Right Smirk.

What is reality to you? What is directly observable? Well what about what we cant observe? What if you feel like shit because no one likes you? How do you observe that and even if you could what is the point? Clearly in respect to a human the most real thing there is is pain. We use objective truths to reduce pain, ie engineering, medicine, etc. But those objective truths can only go so far and they are like a spot light they are not comprehensive. What use is Atheism if its unable to reduce pain? If it cannot resolve pain how can you know it is real when the most real thing is pain? If sprituality is curing pains how can you say it is falsehood? Is it better that the faithful have faith in drugs and sedate themselves to their perceptions? Is it better for the faithful to see their psychologist instead of confiding in their Church? I have been to a psychologist and they only serve what is objective, and what is objective is not comprehensive; so it cannot heal everyone.

What is more real then pain?
Your pride?
Your sin?

I suppose so.

So much text because you refused to read (or understand?) one word.
Life having no INHERENT meaning is different from us making it meaningful. But it's man made reason, not God made.

Believe what you want. In your eyes I'm just an amoral nihilist anyway because you can't fathom morals and meaning without God. I don't want to expend energy trying to convince you of the opposite.

 

[Hypatia]

My model of reality is essentially Platonic, I do actually believe that abstract forms reflect upon material reality. As a mathematician, I really have to think this way, its how math operates, we find abstract metaphysical truths, and then impart them upon the material plane. Other options are probably similarly metaphysical, like souls, concepts like truth and justice, ect.

I am unsure if reality ACTUALLY works like this for real, but it certainly feels like this to me.

 

[pickleman]

Life having no INHERENT meaning is different from us making it meaningful

If your claim is that life has no meaning (wait for it), it implies that nothing matters. It is this logical axiom which I addressed... You have affirmed that you do indeed support that axiom because you then to go on to conclude that any meaning is man made (and therefore illusory)... You can only make that claim if you first relied on the axiom that nothing matters. IRONICALLY enough, the fact that you capitalized "INHERENT" doesnt actually change anything other than enabling you an "out" which I am not granting you.

Because you believe that there is no meaning in life and because of that axiom you impose on your thinking of the world you therefore have to assume any sources of meaning are produced by individuals... or states ... or dictatorships.

the prospect of life having no inherent meaning [emphasis mine]

This is a thought experiment which you assume is the default (it is not). Its unsavory because its not the truth. Its a falsehood. Civilizations which do not propagate meaning in their population die. People who have no meaning in their lives are non-functional and aid in the deaths of their civilization. If you care about that not happening you cannot say that life has no "inherent" meaning. It seems that its actually the direct opposite. Life Inherently HAS meaning. Its obvious, and essential but lets be honest here. You're not searching for the Truth. You just want to be an edgy "internet kid".

In a functional society that thought experiment is secondary and its unsavory. You first come to know that life is full of meaning (which it is, obviously), then you consider the the prospect that life has no meaning (its not inherent) then you realize that its a falsehood and continue on your day (if you lack mind rot). But in Modern America, since we are an open society we are open to being Subverted. The number one target of western society is our religion (Christianity), and hence this is the number one target of the Communists / Islamists / Demons / etc. They are among us, and clearly you're either a subversive seeking the destruction of society (so edgy!) or you have been subverted (because you're just a silly boy!)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gnpCqsXE8g

You can't fathom morals and meaning without God

I am going to assume that you mean "without God & Religion" as this is the direct implication.

Where do you get your morals from? I mean, you have to have gotten them from somewhere? If you remove God & religion from the equation your only source of morals is from the State / Propaganda / Movies / TV / Evolutionary Psychology / Dice Roll.

Leviathan (Hobbes book) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In the Book "Leviathan" by Thomas Hobbes, we see the the outcome of this thought pattern, and its that morals are to be DICTATED. Meaning in life, will be DICTATED. You only get to enjoy freedoms because you live in a religious society which enabled those freedoms, and when that religious society dies away your right to determine your own morals goes away with it. Millions sit in the Netflix / Amazon / Apple+ / FOX / etc pew every evening to consume the spiritual propaganda of their rulers. We are just seeing the start of what the West will look like without religion and it seems to be thats its a spiritual hell. A ironically temporary hell because without the re-establishment of the reign of God will no one will freely have children under the liberal context and the society will age out of existance. Of course the West will invoke the Leviathan before that happens, the Elites will not willingly surrender their wealth. Your mind will not be yours, and I hesitate to say that you actually own your mind considering you actually think that "life has no inherent meaning".

How do you know you're not just soaking up falsehoods and propaganda where-ever you go? I mean how long has your spirituality persisted in defending itself? How Infantile do you have to be to assume you are immune to the psychological and spiritual warfare that is unending and unrelenting. Do you see yourself as better than others? Are you the master race? Or is it much more likely you have been demoralized (Yes, admit it)?

Its not that I "can't fathom morals and meaning without God" its just such a society isnt functional, and I do not want to live in a Godless world. No one does actually...The steady state of civilization is one that is guided by God.

"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?
— Nietzsche, The Gay Science, Section 125

"I teach you the Übermensch. Man is something that shall be overcome. What have you done to overcome him? All beings so far have created something beyond themselves: and you want to be the ebb of that great tide, and would rather go back to the beast than overcome man? What is the ape to man? A laughing-stock or a painful embarrassment. And just the same shall man be to the Übermensch: a laughing-stock or a painful embarrassment. You have made your way from worm to man, and much within you is still worm. Once you were apes, and even yet man is more of an ape than any ape. Even the wisest among you is only a conflict and hybrid of plant and ghost. But do I bid you become ghosts or plants? Behold, I teach you the Übermensch! The Übermensch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: The Übermensch shall be the meaning of the earth... Man is a rope stretched between the animal and the Übermensch—a rope over an abyss... What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not a goal: what is lovable in man is that he is an over-going and a going under."
-— Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra (Zarathustra's Prologue; pp. 9–11)

Where does the Death of God and the rise of the Übermensch leave us? No where other than destruction. Its an unTruth. Yet here you are pushing these ideas as if they were truths (they are not, they are the output of an intellectual child unfamiliar with history and philosophy). There is nothing intelligent about being a "Christian Atheist". That is a real cope. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism)

"Christianity is much more atheist than the usual atheism, which can claim there is no God and so on, but nonetheless retains a certain trust into the Big Other. This Big Other can be called natural necessity, evolution, or whatever. We humans are nonetheless reduced to a position within the harmonious whole of evolution, whatever, but the difficult thing to accept is again that there is no Big Other, no point of reference which guarantees meaning."
Slavoj Žižek (retard)

Even though Slavoj Sizek is retarded, he does make a good point that defeating meaning under a Christian context is next to impossible. I mean, the proof is in the pudding... You cannot even reply to this rebuttle without collapsing your entire argument. As it would imply you did find meaning in a small corner of the internet that motiviated you to a response.

So much text because you refused to read one word.

You string words into sentences. You string sentences into paragraphs, and you look at the prose in its context. Those paragraphs have meanings, framings, and implications. But you dont intend to have an a real argument. You're just here to make nhilistic thoughts arise from the abysis where they came from. I write a lot of text because I am forming an argument that is valid within the context of the entirity of your argument not just one qualifying word. The addition or removal that "one" word doesn't change my reply whatsoever. I would comment the exact same thing.... but since you highlighted that word I feel inclined to write even more.

I enjoy writing. I have to ask... why do you pity that man that writes what they think? Arent you not on a forum for such a purpose? Am I supposed to write a couple sentences where I just make fun of other users for expressing their thoughts and completely disregard everything they wrote because they are lazy and pathetic? Oh right I forgot, you're not actually here to make an arguement.

In your eyes I'm just an amoral nihilist anyway

Ah yes you read me like a book! What makes you moral? What meaning do you dervive from life? If you derive no meaning in life and have no source for your morals (other than Netflix and your ass) then you are an "Amoral Nhilist". I mean if you are not an "Amoral Nhilist" all you have to do is say where you get your meaning in life from, and where you source your morals from. But keep in mind, in doing so you will probably undermine your argument where you said "the prospect of life having no inherent meaning [emphasis mine]".

Otherwise, I have to ask... Why add this sentence other than to be subversive for no reason? Are you trying to manipulate people? Why the fake use of empathy when the conclusion is obvious based on what you have written?

How else are you supposed to interprete:

"it's natural to cope with that by choosing to believe in fairy tales."

I don't want to expend energy trying to convince you of the opposite.

Nothing matters i suppose! I mean why would you care to convince anyone of anything? Why are you even here to begin with?

You think you're immune to narrative structures and you're not.
You know nothing.

 

[happyhappy]

Ultimately I know nothing but my own existence. I know that I exist inherently by the fact of my mere presence. Even if nothing around me is real I still see it. even if nothing I feel is real I still feel it. I don't know if the world around me exists but I know I exist. I perceive therefore I am. I think therefore I am. I can deny the world but I cannot deny that I see the world and that I am. I cannot deny that I see or think because it is innate knowledge. From this, I am assured that I exist. Not as a body since I cannot know the world but as a consciousness or soul. If I know that I exist then I know that there is such a thing as existence. The question then becomes how do I exist? First, I should note that my existence is imperfect. I did not bring myself into existence and I am not continually keeping myself in existence. Something out of my control is making me exist. In other words, something exists that makes me exist. A problem then arises that if this being exists then what keeps it in existence and then what brings that into existence etc. For beings to exist ultimately, there must be a being that is self-sustaining. There must be a being that exists perfectly without needing anything else for it to exist. A being that is. I believe this being to be the most basic level of existence and ultimately the reason I exist.

 

[Andy Kaufman]

If your claim is that life has no meaning (wait for it), it implies that nothing matters. It is this logical axiom which I addressed... You have affirmed that you do indeed support that axiom because you then to go on to conclude that any meaning is man made (and therefore illusory)... You can only make that claim if you first relied on the axiom that nothing matters. IRONICALLY enough, the fact that you capitalized "INHERENT" doesnt actually change anything other than enabling you an "out" which I am not granting you.

Because you believe that there is no meaning in life and because of that axiom you impose on your thinking of the world you therefore have to assume any sources of meaning are produced by individuals... or states ... or dictatorships.


This is a thought experiment which you assume is the default (it is not). Its unsavory because its not the truth. Its a falsehood. Civilizations which do not propagate meaning in their population die. People who have no meaning in their lives are non-functional and aid in the deaths of their civilization. If you care about that not happening you cannot say that life has no "inherent" meaning. It seems that its actually the direct opposite. Life Inherently HAS meaning. Its obvious, and essential but lets be honest here. You're not searching for the Truth. You just want to be an edgy "internet kid".

In a functional society that thought experiment is secondary and its unsavory. You first come to know that life is full of meaning (which it is, obviously), then you consider the the prospect that life has no meaning (its not inherent) then you realize that its a falsehood and continue on your day (if you lack mind rot). But in Modern America, since we are an open society we are open to being Subverted. The number one target of western society is our religion (Christianity), and hence this is the number one target of the Communists / Islamists / Demons / etc. They are among us, and clearly you're either a subversive seeking the destruction of society (so edgy!) or you have been subverted (because you're just a silly boy!)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gnpCqsXE8g



I am going to assume that you mean "without God & Religion" as this is the direct implication.

Where do you get your morals from? I mean, you have to have gotten them from somewhere? If you remove God & religion from the equation your only source of morals is from the State / Propaganda / Movies / TV / Evolutionary Psychology / Dice Roll.

Leviathan (Hobbes book) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In the Book "Leviathan" by Thomas Hobbes, we see the the outcome of this thought pattern, and its that morals are to be DICTATED. Meaning in life, will be DICTATED. You only get to enjoy freedoms because you live in a religious society which enabled those freedoms, and when that religious society dies away your right to determine your own morals goes away with it. Millions sit in the Netflix / Amazon / Apple+ / FOX / etc pew every evening to consume the spiritual propaganda of their rulers. We are just seeing the start of what the West will look like without religion and it seems to be thats its a spiritual hell. A ironically temporary hell because without the re-establishment of the reign of God will no one will freely have children under the liberal context and the society will age out of existance. Of course the West will invoke the Leviathan before that happens, the Elites will not willingly surrender their wealth. Your mind will not be yours, and I hesitate to say that you actually own your mind considering you actually think that "life has no inherent meaning".

How do you know you're not just soaking up falsehoods and propaganda where-ever you go? I mean how long has your spirituality persisted in defending itself? How Infantile do you have to be to assume you are immune to the psychological and spiritual warfare that is unending and unrelenting. Do you see yourself as better than others? Are you the master race? Or is it much more likely you have been demoralized (Yes, admit it)?

Its not that I "can't fathom morals and meaning without God" its just such a society isnt functional, and I do not want to live in a Godless world. No one does actually...The steady state of civilization is one that is guided by God.

"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?
— Nietzsche, The Gay Science, Section 125

"I teach you the Übermensch. Man is something that shall be overcome. What have you done to overcome him? All beings so far have created something beyond themselves: and you want to be the ebb of that great tide, and would rather go back to the beast than overcome man? What is the ape to man? A laughing-stock or a painful embarrassment. And just the same shall man be to the Übermensch: a laughing-stock or a painful embarrassment. You have made your way from worm to man, and much within you is still worm. Once you were apes, and even yet man is more of an ape than any ape. Even the wisest among you is only a conflict and hybrid of plant and ghost. But do I bid you become ghosts or plants? Behold, I teach you the Übermensch! The Übermensch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: The Übermensch shall be the meaning of the earth... Man is a rope stretched between the animal and the Übermensch—a rope over an abyss... What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not a goal: what is lovable in man is that he is an over-going and a going under."
-— Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra (Zarathustra's Prologue; pp. 9–11)

Where does the Death of God and the rise of the Übermensch leave us? No where other than destruction. Its an unTruth. Yet here you are pushing these ideas as if they were truths (they are not, they are the output of an intellectual child unfamiliar with history and philosophy). There is nothing intelligent about being a "Christian Atheist". That is a real cope. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism)

"Christianity is much more atheist than the usual atheism, which can claim there is no God and so on, but nonetheless retains a certain trust into the Big Other. This Big Other can be called natural necessity, evolution, or whatever. We humans are nonetheless reduced to a position within the harmonious whole of evolution, whatever, but the difficult thing to accept is again that there is no Big Other, no point of reference which guarantees meaning."
Slavoj Žižek (retard)

Even though Slavoj Sizek is retarded, he does make a good point that defeating meaning under a Christian context is next to impossible. I mean, the proof is in the pudding... You cannot even reply to this rebuttle without collapsing your entire argument. As it would imply you did find meaning in a small corner of the internet that motiviated you to a response.


You string words into sentences. You string sentences into paragraphs, and you look at the prose in its context. Those paragraphs have meanings, framings, and implications. But you dont intend to have an a real argument. You're just here to make nhilistic thoughts arise from the abysis where they came from. I write a lot of text because I am forming an argument that is valid within the context of the entirity of your argument not just one qualifying word. The addition or removal that "one" word doesn't change my reply whatsoever. I would comment the exact same thing.... but since you highlighted that word I feel inclined to write even more.

I enjoy writing. I have to ask... why do you pity that man that writes what they think? Arent you not on a forum for such a purpose? Am I supposed to write a couple sentences where I just make fun of other users for expressing their thoughts and completely disregard everything they wrote because they are lazy and pathetic? Oh right I forgot, you're not actually here to make an arguement.


Ah yes you read me like a book! What makes you moral? What meaning do you dervive from life? If you derive no meaning in life and have no source for your morals (other than Netflix and your ass) then you are an "Amoral Nhilist". I mean if you are not an "Amoral Nhilist" all you have to do is say where you get your meaning in life from, and where you source your morals from. But keep in mind, in doing so you will probably undermine your argument where you said "the prospect of life having no inherent meaning [emphasis mine]".

Otherwise, I have to ask... Why add this sentence other than to be subversive for no reason? Are you trying to manipulate people? Why the fake use of empathy when the conclusion is obvious based on what you have written?

How else are you supposed to interprete:



Nothing matters i suppose! I mean why would you care to convince anyone of anything? Why are you even here to begin with?

You think you're immune to narrative structures and you're not.
You know nothing.

Seriously you're very wrong about me. But I really don't have the motivation to respond in a detailed manner so I will just hand you this win. I'm very dum dum, you're smart. bye.

 

[pickleman]

Seriously you're very wrong about me. But I really don't have the motivation to respond in a detailed manner so I will just hand you this win. I'm very dum dum, you're smart. bye.

Thank you for proving to me that there is INHERENT meaning.

 

[Andy Kaufman]

Thank you for proving to me that there is INHERENT meaning.

There is not but as I said, I don't feel like I owe you a justification for my worldview. If you want to book this as a win by overwhelming me with text and questions you can do that. Just because I don't want to discuss this out with you doesn't mean I prove any of your points...