Why are modern TV/Film so weird?

[Alix]

you dropped the /s on your way, king

btw, what do you think of WiseCrack YT channel? are they sharing "dark academia" idea(l)s to "normies"? (see the videos from them i posted there newly somewhere)

Don't know about it, I'll check it and tell you later.

 

[Some_porcupine]

he's right. modern TV shows and movies are literally made to socially engineer and demoralize society. it's not about the money like most people claim. these companies have infinite money through the federal reserve which can bail them out at any time.

maybe it is psychological game, on-par with love is war or death;note, only 100-1000x more complex. to kick someone in corner so they have no way to hide, go.
e.g. i.e. the whole video i reposted somewhere, from wisecrack, about ... *(this referst to post above too)

here:

View: https://youtu.be/ZFLVXfrdGUA

(i love-hate them [as i explained before, here ^, ^^, in chat...])

 

[Nyx9572]

What makes you think that they're specifically pushing those values and it's not the money? The only reason they're being progressive-lite right now is because it sells and it doesn't spawn lots of critical thinking. They would do the same with conservative-lite values if it got popular. You don't see mass media outlets making things á la Tarkovsky, Foster Wallace or Burroughs (or any transgressive right-wing author, which to be honest I don't know a lot) for a reason, and is that if they did that people would get out of their Plato cave and realize they're just some suits trying to farm cheap money. The MTV didn't push angsty rock nihilism until Nirvana got famous, and when they did so it was most of the times a castrated version devoid of most of what made it unique. Same with everything.

you got it wrong. it's the media that influences the views of society, not the other way around. social change is always top down, not bottom up. been that way since forever but specially since the 60s.

 

[Alix]

you got it wrong. it's the media that influences the views of society, not the other way around. social change is always top down, not bottom up. been that way since forever but specially since the 60s

I never said that wasn't wrong, media does influence society. But why do you think they're pushing neoliberal progressivism, like Luke said, instead of neoliberal conservatism if isn't money?

 

[Some_porcupine]

I never said that wasn't wrong, media does influence society. But why do you think they're pushing neoliberal progressivism, like Luke said, instead of neoliberal conservatism if isn't money?

because you just answered yourself, before, the line(s) before you mentioned kurt cobian - "to not wake normies up" - ?

 

[Nyx9572]

I never said that wasn't wrong, media does influence society. But why do you think they're pushing neoliberal progressivism, like Luke said, instead of neoliberal conservatism if isn't money?

because conservative values keep a society healthy and strong, and liberal policies degenerate and weaken society and makes it easier to corrupt and control.

 

[how to drain your dragon]

Remember how this is a thread about TV and not about red vs blue sports team nonsense? I remember.

 

[Chuffed]

On some levels even the general public is hungry for something different. The rise of K-drama and J-Horror on regular streaming services I did not see coming (although there does appear to be some catch up happening and the imported stuff appears to be mimicking the current western hotness unfortunately).

 

[Dead Star]

Something happened after Trump lost in 2020 where most American conservatives stopped fulfilling the role they had until then and turned into the offended themselves. If SJWs had spent years until then complaining about "diversity" and whatever-phobia they considered was microagressing them, now it was the turn for conservatives, who ironically started being the ones having meltdowns over pronouns like their enemies before them. "They added pronouns in muhhh game!!! The West has fallen, time to have a meltdown over it on Twitter." Most of them, in line of whay @SparkyWilson said, live in a idealized version of the past where everything was happy God-believing suburbia, and when they are confronted to something outside it, they can't take it. If they react to pronouns like that, how would they react to something a hundred times more transgressive, like Burroughs's works?

Thanks for the mention in this thread.

This happened before 2020. Conservatives were already made a minority in academia before 2016. There were talks about the ivy league schools having elements of extremism going back to the 80s and 90s. But Trump's 2016 electoral victory made half of the country lose their minds. He broke brains in a way that didn't seem possible. The whole Great Awokening happened soon after, and it's effects have felt ever since in the 3 major institutions that liberals control (academia, entertainment and mainstream media).

Going back to Hollywood though, post-Occupy Wall Street saw that protests and "social justice" were the new cool thing of the 2010s. It replaced the anti-war messaging of the 2000s (I wrote several posts here about how the left's anti-war movement won the culture war and essentially ended the old neo-cons of the right's influence in politics and this is also felt in entertainment too).

The George Floyd riots made many corporations go all in on BLM overnight. I don't think they ever believed in any of this stuff, and were just trying to make profits. We're seeing the same corporations now turn their back on DEI and progressive messaging, now that it's been proven not to be popular or generate profits like they expected and they're shifting away from it.

Hollywood has many other problems besides politics. I mentioned the mid-budget movies disappearing with streaming services taking their place. That is a major issue, cause back in the day studios could easily make movies that were star-vehicles, where said star made you want to watch it. This is where most comedy movies used to be too (and several stars who thrived in comedy). That's gone now that Hollywood refuses to take risks, instead focusing on legacy franchises and established products where the budgets balloon over $200 million. On this same subject, notice the lack of newer movie stars to replace the old generation? There aren't many screenwriters who are writing scripts that make actors have to sell the movie to the viewer anymore, and we're seeing the consequences of that where superheroes and franchise characters have more appeal than the actors themselves.

On one last note; it's ironic to me reading people say that Hollywood wants to brainwash people with degeneracy, cause there's an opposite argument to that. Many people have been saying over the last few years how there is a lack of nudity in newer movies and shows. A lot of stuff is being made 'safe' to avoid controversial topics. Vince Vaughn was recently talking about how no studios want to make the raunchy sex comedies he used to star in.

 

[Alix]

because conservative values keep a society healthy and strong, and liberal policies degenerate and weaken society and makes it easier to corrupt and control.

I'm not sure what do you mean by "conservative" values, but if it's things like community and faith then yes. The same also happens with leftists ideologies of revolution, though: both direct the attack towards the controlling institutions. And what's the controlling institution? It all goes back to money no matter the POV. Going back to what @Dead Star (one of the best newfags on the site) said:

On one last note; it's ironic to me reading people say that Hollywood wants to brainwash people with degeneracy, cause there's an opposite argument to that. Many people have been saying over the last few years how there is a lack of nudity in newer movies and shows. A lot of stuff is being made 'safe' to avoid controversial topics. Vince Vaughn was recently talking about how no studios want to make the raunchy sex comedies he used to star in.

The arguments over if "degeneracy" is being pushed or not get complicated due to this. We live on a culture of contradictions. On one side, you have hardcore sexual acts being popular, and with people of even younger age, and on the other you have widespread puritan repulsion to the scary act of sex. A sexless sex-obsessed society. Ballard once said "Options multiply around us, We live in an almost infantile world where any demand, any possibility, whether for life-styles, travel, sexual roles and identities, can be satisfied instantly." Humans shouldn't live on a world where so much can be acquired in so little. This is what's causing these contradictions. Degeneracy doesn't sell: it's undegenerate degeneracy what it does. Today more than ever, everything can be a mass product. Even fascism could under the right conditions, I think. But I'm not discussing this anymore because I don't want the mods to send me to derailer hell.

 

[astralita]

I did not watch the video, sorry, it's not my flavour of tea.
But I noticed, for years now, that for example period dramas and fantasy have lost all verisimilitude. You can't immerse yourself in the story without being reminded that the movie/show was made in this last couple of years. Everyone talks and acts like newyorkers for example. From the language use (dumbed down and very modern too), the way characters act with morals akin to our times, the themes being a direct reference to current politics, even the actors and actresses with plastic surgery faces and Hollywood immaculate teeth, and costume design choices made to modern audiences sensibilities. And of course the colourblind cast.
I know that films/tv are a biz too, but this aspect has eaten everything else. Now they spit shit like bridgerton or rings of power because is more watchable for modern audiences and that equals to more money for them. Why put effort on historical accurate shows or movies, or solid world building and lore for a fantasy show, when you can put a bunch of diverse newyorkers on bad renfair costumes or design dresses barely inspired in regency times talking in the most casual and hip language about freedom and individuality.
And add to the formula explicit sex scenes that have nothing to do with the plot. Explicit, porn-like scenes without any artistic sensibility.
I'm tolerant enough to lgb themes because they have existed since the dawn of men as a self-regulatory population mechanism I think, or to race themes because, again, we live in a diverse world full of other ethnicities, or the struggles of women to claim their place in society. However the shallow treatment that is more propaganda than an authentic exploration of such themes is such an insult to the intelligence of the audiences. Everything has to be black and white, bad and good (and not the complex duality found in Tolkien for example), this is bad thinking and this is good thinking. Like a lecture and indoctrination.
I could go and go and go with my rant because they ruined period dramas for me, and I'm still baffled at rings of power.

 

[SparkyWilson]

Thanks for the mention in this thread.

This happened before 2020. Conservatives were already made a minority in academia before 2016. There were talks about the ivy league schools having elements of extremism going back to the 80s and 90s. But Trump's 2016 electoral victory made half of the country lose their minds. He broke brains in a way that didn't seem possible. The whole Great Awokening happened soon after, and it's effects have felt ever since in the 3 major institutions that liberals control (academia, entertainment and mainstream media).

Conservatives being a minority in academia and other public institutions is to some extent their own fault because a lot of conservatives tend to enter into the private sector after graduating from post-secondary education. The only public institutions you see a lot of conservatives in are Police and Military, however that's more working class conservatives.

Going back to Hollywood though, post-Occupy Wall Street saw that protests and "social justice" were the new cool thing of the 2010s. It replaced the anti-war messaging of the 2000s (I wrote several posts here about how the left's anti-war movement won the culture war and essentially ended the old neo-cons of the right's influence in politics and this is also felt in entertainment too).

Flash forward to the 2022's and its the left that supporting the war in Ukraine and now the conservatives are "Anti-War". Conflict Theory strikes again.

The "Social Justice" thing was a thing back in the 1900rds. And it was temperance movement that was pushing it, a movent that was Conservative-Christian. The "woke" movement has a lot of parallels to the conservative christian movements of the early to mid 1900rds as well as the satanic-panic of the 1980s and 90's. I've heard some Hindu's argue that the woke movement is nothing but secularized Christianity.

On one last note; it's ironic to me reading people say that Hollywood wants to brainwash people with degeneracy, cause there's an opposite argument to that. Many people have been saying over the last few years how there is a lack of nudity in newer movies and shows. A lot of stuff is being made 'safe' to avoid controversial topics. Vince Vaughn was recently talking about how no studios want to make the raunchy sex comedies he used to star in.

I remember back in the 80's and 90's nudity was very common in R rated movies, and now its non-existent, and I wish it would come back. Another thing I notice people on the Right accuse Netflix of only producing "left wing" tv shows and on the other hand you have leftist demanding Netflix to take down shows and movies that are too right wing.

I'm not sure what do you mean by "conservative" values.

I've asked some people what do they mean by conservative values and I never get a consistent answer, a lot of the time its some variation of classical liberalism.

The arguments over if "degeneracy" is being pushed or not get complicated due to this. We live on a culture of contradictions. On one side, you have hardcore sexual acts being popular, and with people of even younger age, and on the other you have widespread puritan repulsion to the scary act of sex. A sexless sex-obsessed society.

What you're describing is text book conflict theory\dialectic thinking in action, and i think either side to be bad.

 

[Dead Star]

The "Social Justice" thing was a thing back in the 1900rds. And it was temperance movement that was pushing it, a movent that was Conservative-Christian. The "woke" movement has a lot of parallels to the conservative christian movements of the early to mid 1900rds as well as the satanic-panic of the 1980s and 90's. I've heard some Hindu's argue that the woke movement is nothing but secularized Christianity.

Read into the early 1900s with the original Progressive movement, and you'll find many parallels to modern day progressives. Today they complain about white people so much, they want to bring back that old timey racism from back in the day, just with the roles reversed. They've taken the Oppressor-Oppressed logic from Frankfurt Marxist scholars and applied it to everything (critical theory) as well as Intersectionality to link all the issues together into an omni-cause.

The woke movement is a modern religion. We're moving more to a secular society with the decline of Christianity's influence, so now people can openly build their own morality system around other things. The wokes made theirs with political ideology, as they constantly told us to "read theory", much in the way that an evangelical would tell you to read the bible. The only difference between the two is that wokes don't think a person can be forgiven. They'll dig up anything from your past to justify their hate. At least Christianity sells the idea of forgiving someone who is saved.

I remember back in the 80's and 90's nudity was very common in R rated movies, and now its non-existent, and I wish it would come back. Another thing I notice people on the Right accuse Netflix of only producing "left wing" tv shows and on the other hand you have leftist demanding Netflix to take down shows and movies that are too right wing.

This is what I was getting at. Nudity barely exists in R movies anymore. Studios play it way too safe now, and there's an effort made to avoid controversy and offending people.

We've pretty much limited art out of fear of offending people and hurting their feelings. Just look at the warning labels that exist at the start of movies now. The rating system in the past was used to know if it was OK to watch a movie with your kids (PG-13). Now you get warnings for stuff like 'Choking', 'Sexism', 'Racist Tropes'.

 

[Some_porcupine]

what is said above

"Reverse" racism, sexism, etc.

I was taking a browse through the IndieWeb's code of conduct today and came across this, and I'm interested to see what Agora's thoughts are on it? Is this the current societal standard? Racism isn't really racism, sexism, whateverphobia etc so long as it's directed towards groups that aren't...

forum.agoraroad.com

(tho, it is, in one sense, black hating white e.g. (see quantuum leap episode from sunday last week), in other, it is about hating and fighting majority for whatever reason nowadays...)

The rise of profilicity and the future of society

This thread is based on a post I made about the recent massacres in the United States. A sort of sequel to my meme critique thread which got a surprising amount of attention. Over the past decade I have found a lot of my social interactions to feel strange and stilted. Like the other person...

forum.agoraroad.com

is mentioned there up, too

 

[Dead Star]

Relevant to this discussion.

 

[astralita]

Relevant to this discussion.

View attachment 119503

This is what they did with Rings of Power.

The woke movement is a modern religion.

Yes, but in general politics are the religion of the 21st-century man. No matter what flavour of left or right, just present it to people as the ultimate messianic and magic solution for our societies and done! You don't need data to account for your precepts, fuck reality, you only need the most emotionally charged rhetoric along with decontextualized half-truths. After all, the greatest lies are built upon the greatest truths. Nowadays people don't seek truth, seek narratives that fit their delusions and sustain their beliefs.
Back to the original topic, we can consider this wave of woke media as narratives for the woke crowd, and for the rest, the media equivalent of a jehovah witness stalking you.

 

[SparkyWilson]

Yes, but in general politics are the religion of the 21st-century man. No matter what flavour of left or right, just present it to people as the ultimate messianic and magic solution for our societies and done! You don't need data to account for your precepts, fuck reality, you only need the most emotionally charged rhetoric along with decontextualized half-truths. After all, the greatest lies are built upon the greatest truths. Nowadays people don't seek truth, seek narratives that fit their delusions and sustain their beliefs.
Back to the original topic, we can consider this wave of woke media as narratives for the woke crowd, and for the rest, the media equivalent of a jehovah witness stalking you.

That statement is very true. I remember reading an article a couple of months ago about how people identifying with cretins religions are doing it out of political identity and not so much out of any kind of actual religious belief(People on the Right Identifying with Christians, and people on the left Identifying with Muslims), which is pretty disturbing.

I was also watching an interview with Nigel Farage(The leader of the Reform Party in the UK) saying that he is getting very concerned that people in the UK are identifying them selves along sectarians lines(specifically listing Christians, Muslims and Jew), Funny thing was the host of the interview just sat there and went quite because he's one of the ones that identify him self along sectarian lines because of politics. I happy atleast someone in the Anglo-sphere that's in a position of power gets it.

 

[astralita]

That statement is very true. I remember reading an article a couple of months ago about how people identifying with cretins religions are doing it out of political identity and not so much out of any kind of actual religious belief(People on the Right Identifying with Christians, and people on the left Identifying with Muslims), which is pretty disturbing.

I was also watching an interview with Nigel Farage(The leader of the Reform Party in the UK) saying that he is getting very concerned that people in the UK are identifying them selves along sectarians lines(specifically listing Christians, Muslims and Jew), Funny thing was the host of the interview just sat there and went quite because he's one of the ones that identify him self along sectarian lines because of politics. I happy atleast someone in the Anglo-sphere that's in a position of power gets it.

I don't know Nigel Farage but I imagine the backlash he had after that interview. From what I heard muslims are pretty spared from integrating and following the UK laws. I don't either know much about right-wing people larping as christians, but leftist women from the first world and from educated backgrounds adopting Islam, one of the most hating female religions out there, for the sake of ideology is revolting. Along with that "religion of peace and love" slogan. Fuck this clown world.

 

[SparkyWilson]

I don't know Nigel Farage but I imagine the backlash he had after that interview. From what I heard muslims are pretty spared from integrating and following the UK laws. I don't either know much about right-wing people larping as christians, but leftist women from the first world and from educated backgrounds adopting Islam, one of the most hating female religions out there, for the sake of ideology is revolting. Along with that "religion of peace and love" slogan. Fuck this clown world.

He said it in a hour long interview on triggernometry, its likely a lot of people did not watch the whole interview or they did'nt care. And yes we do in live in Clown World... Honk Honk!!

 

[Some_porcupine]

here

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/W5RxEdXLwjo?feature=share