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Yesterweb Discord set to close to refocus "effort into different projects"

  • Thread starter Punp
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It's a valid comment / complaint. Maybe a little easy to abuse as self-justification, or to prematurely and indirectly dismiss others. But a valid point, nonetheless. @RisingThumb frequently brought up the value, and made the argument for, being concise / direct. And Lord knows I appreciate gangster Yoda when housepoopr or the "evangleion-vietnam veteran" go on their spiels.
Interesting point of view my friend, mine in that case "is that i really don't care and i think you are a nerd (you talk too much) " or "be concise or get circumcised" (that one doesn't apply if you are jewish or american)
 
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Punp

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Interesting point of view my friend, mine in that case "is that i really don't care and i think you are a nerd (you talk too much) " or "be concise or get circumcised" (that one doesn't apply if you are jewish or american)
Please contribute something of worth to the conversation. @Eden has provided some valid original research and @handoferis has given some really valuable first hand experience. The least you can do is engage with it instead of making this about how you derail threads.

@handoferis People joining projects and demanding the world really resonated with me. Good projects essentially need project owners who are willing to recruit and do the labour, and it's often stolen by people with bad intentions. That said, in the game development scene when someone is working on a cool project everyone wants to join it because it has momentum and direction. Regrettably, it seems that the bots and the handout hounds find these projects and start begging in DMs for jobs. In the indie scene the most powerful resource is free time and labour.

@Eden I couldn't penetrate those websites. They had a funk of brandished suffering about them - things like articles on how to recover from rape and vague religious material. It really did reek of identity politics through and through, which was something that killed the yesterweb.

The article (https://mikegrindle.com/posts/communities) was excellent and reflects something I do with the Discord channels I manage - that is, constantly trim them down every six months to get rid of people who are inactive. This solves many problems, a few of them that are readily available in my head are:

A) It encourages people to remain active or be removed from the group.
B) It enables the people in the group to feel like those who are present have interests which align with theirs
C) It allows the group to feel private and without the fear of being spied on.

Mike Grindle makes some good points about the old web continuing without this unifying movement. Afterall, nobody needs a fan club to enjoy masturbation.
 
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In a more sincere version: All my important projects are uploaded on sites where it actually gets traction, no real reason to post them on the road but to ask a buddy for tips on art. (the rest is just a waste of time i love to litter to)


So that's it, now stop whimpering on an obscure forum, you look weird old man. like this Gigachad that looks weirdly cropped, just look at his forehead-head ratio. :gigachad:
 
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handoferis

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@handoferis People joining projects and demanding the world really resonated with me. Good projects essentially need project owners who are willing to recruit and do the labour, and it's often stolen by people with bad intentions. That said, in the game development scene when someone is working on a cool project everyone wants to join it because it has momentum and direction. Regrettably, it seems that the bots and the handout hounds find these projects and start begging in DMs for jobs. In the indie scene the most powerful resource is free time and labour.
Yeah, I currently operate it on a "service guarantees citizenship" basis, where requests are only considered if you've put the graft in to be in a position to make those requests. Doesn't stop people making them though, but it is a nice sign to point at when people get mad.

Also you get to post the Starship Troopers "I'm doing my part!" macro which is always fun.
 
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nsequeira119

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I never even knew Yesterweb had a Discord server. I guess I only really got into it after it had shut down. I doubt there was ever much potential for such a thing. It's not that the Yesterweb Forum is even that great a forum, it's just that Discord is crap software and anything seems great by contrast. Discord seems antithetical to effective communication from a fundamental design standpoint. As they point out in the announcement, it can also become extremely unruly- Discord servers that have 2,000+ people on them are prone to tons of malicious viruses, phishing, webhooks, etc. Forums are better because anyone who's willing to create an account specifically to post on a forum is probably invested enough to actually contribute to a meaningful discussion, and via this mechanic- where you have to verify your e-mail and so on- forums are able to filter out a lot of the crap and streamline the moderation process.

Forums can also have customizable mechanics that encourage posting on a regular basis- Agora's awards system, for instance, is fun and engaging. Discord's lame "leveling" system, by contrast, is basically just to encourage server owners to buy Discord Nitro and shit. You can't give specific members specific awards, and there are virtually no customization options. I agree that it makes no sense for Yesterweb as a movement to use Discord, so it was probably the right move to ditch it. I doubt much of substance was said on there, though it is nice they kept it up to read for any future Internet archaeologists.

I don't really care if they're Communists or anything- they take a somewhat different, more direct action-focused approach to the old Web aesthetic than other groups, but that's OK, because ultimately it is unrestrained, rampant capitalism that's ruined the Internet. I think anyone should be able to see that, it's not too radical of a take. I just don't get in with them much because they seem to only allow Neocities websites, and my website is a published Google Doc (which I do believe is about as stripped-down as it's possible for a website to even be, just images and text). I like Yesterweb, anyway. I hope they only get better at what they do as the years go on.

Discord Demon.png
 
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"evangelion-vietnam veteran"

lmao, his legacy lives on

It's not that the Yesterweb Forum is even that great a forum, it's just that Discord is crap software and anything seems great by contrast.

The move to the forum wasn't motivated by Discord itself. They basically wanted a fresh start with the community that had gotten out of their control and to steer it into a new direction.

I just don't get in with them much because they seem to only allow Neocities websites, and my website is a published Google Doc

They weren't Neocities-centric necessarily. It was just where a bulk of people came from. That being said they were definitely anti-big tech, so it wouldn't be surprising if they felt a certain type of way about you using a Google Doc.
 

nsequeira119

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lmao, his legacy lives on



The move to the forum wasn't motivated by Discord itself. They basically wanted a fresh start with the community that had gotten out of their control and to steer it into a new direction.



They weren't Neocities-centric necessarily. It was just where a bulk of people came from. That being said they were definitely anti-big tech, so it wouldn't be surprising if they felt a certain type of way about you using a Google Doc.
I never submitted my personal comics website to the Yesterweb Ring when it was active, but I assume they probably would've rejected it, plus it doesn't run on html so I wouldn't have been able to embed the little webring button. I never had any negative experiences with them, and if they prefer Neocities they should use it- it's great software and does exactly what it's advertised to.
 
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I hate to toot our own horn but consider this:

If Illu had accepted their "help" to change the forum culture to better fit their standards/ideals to better get along with them and get their approval this site would be collapsing and closing just the same because of the same internal cultural and intellectual rot.

But instead we are strong, vibrant, and healthy, and this fact probably drives the lot of them insane, if they still care.
 
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stonehead

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A post worth checking out about the Yesterweb that hadn't been posted here yet:

Maintaining Web Communities by Mike Grindle (2023-05-25)​

In it, he talks about this very topic and points to a resource:

Communities by Visakan Veerasamy (2016-02-15)​

While perhaps similar in length to what purelyconstructive posts, I find the advice and the way it's presented much more pragmatic, direct, valuable and actionable. Though Visakan may have been approaching it more from the corporate / influencer side, I think a lot of what they jotted down their holds water.
I finally got around to reading these, and I'm actually kinda conflicted. The first article has a big emphasis on enforcing user contribution:
In other words, any community with something others may consider interesting (or profitable) is susceptible to exploitation, either from well-meaning "fans" who take without contributing,
for a community to survive long-term, Visakanv suggests, it requires strong moderation and a shared focus on contribution. Yet this is something that Visakanv believes most people don't have the stomach for

"Most people want the fun of participating in an already-great community without having to do the work of making sure that their participation is net positive to the group as a whole. It's ignorant and selfish. We have never properly solved this problem.
The need to always be creating "content" or risk losing your audience is part of what irks me about mainstream social media. I want to consume/contribute to a site at my own pace. I want to be able to take a day to go outside and not use the internet.

Also, beyond my personal tastes, it's hard for me to see what harm lurkers could possibly do to a forum. Maybe excluding those who don't contribute makes sense in a real-life community, where everyone takes up a limited amount of physical space, or even a limited amount of brain-space of the "good" members. You can only remember so many names and faces. Online though, I don't see that issue. They do use up a minuscule amount of the site's bandwidth, but they also might contribute a minuscule amount of ad revenue to cancel that out. Sure they aren't building the community at all, but it doesn't seem like they're tearing it down either.

It seems to me like spam or low-effort content would be a more valid complaint. Lazy memes and "This ^^^" comments actually do eat up space on the page. How many overused meme formats are readers willing to scroll through to find something actually funny? Even then though, do we just let the mods delete whatever doesn't make them laugh? Generally I agree with the advice to encourage a certain tone or vibe, and ban users who violate that. It's just hard for me to see that lurking ruins the vibe. The only thing they do is make a view count go up.

I did actually like the articles, and the authors seemed to have plenty of experience managing online communities. Overall, they were good posts, it's just that one thing that doesn't make sense to me. I would rather keep users who post one or two good comments a month than ban them.
 

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